OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 25, 2014, 05:15:10 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Fr. Zakaria Boutrus: Coptic Priest Evangelizes Muslims  (Read 7655 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« on: April 15, 2008, 02:17:02 AM »

There are many people talking about the preaching towards the Islamic community both here and abroad that he is doing. Many of the Arab Eastern Orthodox seem to be in love with the message and presentation of Islam he is presenting to the Muslims and tell of how his words are converting many to Christianity. They tell me that Fr. Zakaria Boutrus is a Coptic priest but that Pope Shenouda has not only condemned him but also excommunicated him for his preaching. Are any of you familiar with him and his situation?
Logged

Joseph
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2008, 03:21:10 AM »

Theres some u tub videos i watched a few some have sub tittles english some all in arabic i didnt understand them...some said he was a moslem mulla that coverted now a coptic priest.....stashko/stanislav
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
falafel333
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 337


« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 04:13:53 AM »

Fr Zakaria (is/was???) a Coptic priest who has been suspended from service. Although entirely not clear why it is believed that the suspension was carried out due to his feuling of anti-Christian sentiments as a result of his attacks on Islam, which I suppose can have quite serious repercussions especially in an Islamic dominant society such as Egypt and especially when the church you are supposedly ordained by seems to condone such anti-islamic rhetoric. Fr Zakaria has also been accused of preaching certain charismatic/protestant teachings. Fr Zakaria continues to wear the Coptic ecclesiastical vestments and for all intents and purposes continues to appear to be a believing member of the Coptic Orthodox Church who has never been excommunicated nor renounced his affiliation but who has simply claimed to have retired from active service. Fr Zakaria'a brother was murdered by Islamic fanatics and since then he has dedicated his life to preaching to the Islamic world. He appears regularly on al-hayat satellite tv which has caused quite a stir within the Islamic world, he also hosts a forum on pal talk, has his own website and has many videos on youtube.

I think in an age where Islamic fanaticism has caused freedom loving people all over the world to fear to express their opinions due to threats and violent reprisals and reactions, Fr Zakaria is a breath of fresh air, representing the continuity of the apologetic activity once reminiscent of the patristic era. 
Logged
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2008, 04:33:46 AM »

I like Him alot the truth about islam should be proclaimed....how bad it is.......May God Bless Him in His Work and that he continues in his calling in revealing the evils of islam.....stasko/stanislav......ps he's extremely educated in islamic belief so he knows how to debate them they haven't got prayer when it comes debating him......
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 04:37:31 AM by stashko » Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
arimethea
Getting too old for this
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Patriarchate of Antioch
Posts: 2,968


Does anyone really care what you think?


« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 10:19:15 AM »

Fr Zakaria (is/was???) a Coptic priest who has been suspended from service. 
So is he allowed in Coptic parishes or not?

Quote
Fr Zakaria has also been accused of preaching certain charismatic/protestant teachings.
I haven't heard him preach anything that isn't Orthodox, so what of his preaching exactly are receiving these accusations?
Logged

Joseph
falafel333
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 337


« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2008, 11:56:09 AM »

So is he allowed in Coptic parishes or not?
In the strictest sense he is forbidden from serving within any priestly functions but how this relates to his own participation in the mysteries of the church as one of its members this seems to be unclear.

I haven't heard him preach anything that isn't Orthodox, so what of his preaching exactly are receiving these accusations?
I think this stems mainly from his colloborating with protestant/evangelicals now and that his son has abandoned Orthodoxy for Protestanism. Also, apparently, in his early days he published some questionable material of which he later recanted.
Logged
TinaG
I am not a pessimist - I'm just grimly realistic!
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 870


If only my family were this normal !


WWW
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2008, 01:44:30 PM »

So then, where are the muslim to Christian converts going to church?   The Coptic Church or to a protestant church?
Logged

On the spiritual path somewhere between the Simpsons and St. Theophan the Recluse, but I still can't see the Springfield city limits sign yet.
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 10,258


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2008, 02:53:37 PM »

So then, where are the muslim to Christian converts going to church?   The Coptic Church or to a protestant church?

I have a feeling that a lot of his converts join Protestant churches.  It's why many have been very suspicious of him and his status has been a "mystery."  Yet, I still hear he prays and communes in a Coptic Church regularly; he just doesn't lead a liturgical service.
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
PSFam
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 10


« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2008, 05:13:47 PM »

A lot of rumors are floating around Fr. Zakaria. He has not been excommunicated/defrocked/sanctioned/or brought up on any ecclesiastical charges. He is still able to commune and pray liturgy. If he was censured in anyway no church wold allow him to pray.  Part of the rumors arose based on the fact he is not in Egypt and has not been from at least past 6 months probably much longer. I know for a period of time he was in the Northeast of the USA. Mainly because there is a $7 million bounty for his head and is travelling around avoid attempts on his life (also prosetylizing to Muslim is in the Egyptian constitution as a capital offense).

The church hierarchy while not happy or necessarily approving of his methodology, they see it as being overly antagonistic especially considering the delicate balance in Egypt; have not issued any statement against Fr. Zakaria.

As for those who convert, no one really knows where they end up, since converting from islam is a capital crime so many are underground or lead double lives.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 05:16:19 PM by PSFam » Logged

“The Cross is not an immobile form upon which Christ hung one day long ago. It is the compassionate beating heart of God, longing for all mankind”

- Fr. Bishoy Kamel
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2009, 12:42:34 PM »

http://www.islam-christianity.net/



If only I could read Arabic. I found a few videos in english subtitles and dubb, but most of his stuff is in arabic. I thought about putting some of his stuff on DVD, but I wanted to ask you guys about him first.



JNORM888
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 12:43:29 PM by jnorm888 » Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2009, 12:59:14 PM »

http://www.islam-christianity.net/



If only I could read Arabic. I found a few videos in english subtitles and dubb, but most of his stuff is in arabic. I thought about putting some of his stuff on DVD, but I wanted to ask you guys about him first.



JNORM888

MANY YEARS!

No better praise comes the Islamicists themselves:

Please pray for the ministry of this Orthodox Servant of the Lord, and that no one collects the bounty on his head.

Botros is an unusual figure onscreen: robed, with a huge cross around his neck, he sits with both the Koran and the Bible in easy reach. Egypt’s Copts — members of one of the oldest Christian communities in the Middle East — have in many respects come to personify the demeaning Islamic institution of “dhimmitude” (which demands submissiveness from non-Muslims, in accordance with Koran 9:29). But the fiery Botros does not submit, and minces no words. He has famously made of Islam  “ten demands” whose radical nature he uses to highlight Islam’s own radical demands on non-Muslims.

The result? Mass conversions to Christianity — if clandestine ones. The very public conversion of high-profile Italian journalist Magdi Allam — who was baptized by Pope Benedict in Rome on Saturday — is only the tip of the iceberg. Indeed, Islamic cleric Ahmad al-Qatani stated on al-Jazeera TV a while back that some six million Muslims convert to Christianity annually, many of them persuaded by Botros’s public ministry. More recently, al-Jazeera noted Life TV’s “unprecedented evangelical raid” on the Muslim world. Several factors account for the Botros phenomenon.

Typically, Botros’s presentation of the Islamic material is sufficiently detailed that the controversial topic is shown to be an airtight aspect of Islam. Yet, however convincing his proofs, Botros does not flatly conclude that, say, universal jihad or female inferiority are basic tenets of Islam. He treats the question as still open — and humbly invites the ulema, the revered articulators of sharia law, to respond and show the error in his methodology. He does demand, however, that their response be based on “al-dalil we al-burhan,” — “evidence and proof,” one of his frequent refrains — not shout-downs or sophistry.

More often than not, the response from the ulema is deafening silence — which has only made Botros and Life TV more enticing to Muslim viewers. The ulema who have publicly addressed Botros’s conclusions often find themselves forced to agree with him — which has led to some amusing (and embarrassing) moments on live Arabic TV.
Botros played the key role in exposing this obscure and embarrassing issue and forcing the ulema to respond. Another guest on Hala Sirhan’s show, Abd al-Fatah, slyly indicated that the entire controversy was instigated by Botros: “I know you all [fellow panelists] watch that channel and that priest and that none of you [pointing at Abd al-Muhdi] can ever respond to him, since he always documents his sources!”

Incapable of rebutting Botros, the only strategy left to the ulema (aside from a rumored $5-million bounty on his head) is to ignore him. When his name is brought up, they dismiss him as a troublemaking liar who is backed by — who else? — international “Jewry.” They could easily refute his points, they insist, but will not deign to do so. That strategy may satisfy some Muslims, but others are demanding straightforward responses from the ulema.


But the ultimate reason for Botros’s success is that — unlike his Western counterparts who criticize Islam from a political standpoint — his primary interest is the salvation of souls. He often begins and concludes his programs by stating that he loves all Muslims as fellow humans and wants to steer them away from falsehood to Truth. To that end, he doesn’t just expose troubling aspects of Islam. Before concluding every program, he quotes pertinent biblical verses and invites all his viewers to come to Christ

Botros’s motive is not to incite the West against Islam, promote “Israeli interests,” or “demonize” Muslims, but to draw Muslims away from the dead legalism of sharia to the spirituality of Christianity. Many Western critics fail to appreciate that, to disempower radical Islam, something theocentric and spiritually satisfying — not secularism, democracy, capitalism, materialism, feminism, etc. — must be offered in its place. The truths of one religion can only be challenged and supplanted by the truths of another. And so Father Zakaria Botros has been fighting fire with fire.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTUwY2QyNjA0NjcwMjExMzI2ZmJiZTEzN2U1YjYyZjE=&w=MA==
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Jonathan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 794


WWW
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2009, 03:46:01 PM »

The message of Christianity is love, not hatred. You don't convert people by making fun of them and their religion, but by loving them. You don't serve by making yourself famous. You don't go against the church and give up the pastoral ministry of the priesthood in order to keep dealing with people in hatred. May God show him the error of his ways.
Logged
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,284


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2009, 04:07:57 PM »

The message of Christianity is love, not hatred. You don't convert people by making fun of them and their religion, but by loving them. You don't serve by making yourself famous. You don't go against the church and give up the pastoral ministry of the priesthood in order to keep dealing with people in hatred. May God show him the error of his ways.

Why do you say the priest is being hateful? Would Egypt stand for a Coptic making fun of Islam on national TV? The article indicates that the priest is being extremely generous and cautious in his statements:

Quote
Yet, however convincing his proofs, Botros does not flatly conclude that, say, universal jihad or female inferiority are basic tenets of Islam. He treats the question as still open — and humbly invites the ulema, the revered articulators of sharia law, to respond and show the error in his methodology. He does demand, however, that their response be based on “al-dalil we al-burhan,” — “evidence and proof,” one of his frequent refrains — not shout-downs or sophistry.
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2009, 04:29:59 PM »

The message of Christianity is love, not hatred. You don't convert people by making fun of them and their religion, but by loving them. You don't serve by making yourself famous. You don't go against the church and give up the pastoral ministry of the priesthood in order to keep dealing with people in hatred. May God show him the error of his ways.

What hatred are you talking about? Can you give examples?

Much of Islam, well, falls under ridicule only because it cannot withstand scrutiny.  There are no two ways about it.  Take for instance the account of Allah revealing Quran so that Muhammad's daughter in law could divorce her husband, Muhammad's adopted son, so she could marry Muhammad.  AS if that wasn't enough, the Quran bannig adoption so as to uphold Muhammad's moral purity: I have seen many Muslims denigrate adoption because the Quran says you can't be made someone's son if you weren't born it, that adoption is "unnatural" nay "perverse." Then the "Story of the Honey" (a tale about the wives of Muhammad fighting about their turns sleeping with him, and with one in another's bed).   And I haven't even brought up the issue of pedaphilia with Aishah....

Then there's the law that to be reconcilied to a divorced wife, you must have her have sexual intercourse with another man first.

Now, the PC crowd might excuse it by saying "different times, blah, blah, blah"  But Islam says this is "the Best of Mankind" the Quran putting him up as the "Good Example" (33:21).  Try to make a family morality based on the above: Islamic law/shari'ah does (that same law that the Islamicist who killed the military recruiter in AR says made him do it).  So it is behavior not to be excused, but emulated.

I'm aware of the other issues you bring up, but since you bring them up, I'd rather you explain them.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 04:32:42 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,284


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2009, 05:03:02 PM »

AS if that wasn't enough, the Quran bannig adoption so as to uphold Muhammad's moral purity: I have seen many Muslims denigrate adoption because the Quran says you can't be made someone's son if you weren't born it, that adoption is "unnatural" nay "perverse."
Does the Qur'an itself forbid adoption, or does it just forbid calling an adopted child by your own family's name?
Quote
It is also important to note that in Islam, the extended family network is vast and very strong.  It is rare for a child to be completely orphaned, without a single family member to care for him or her.  Islam places a great emphasis on the ties of kinship -- a completely abandoned child is practically unheard of.  Islamic law would place an emphasis on locating a relative to care for the child, before allowing someone outside of the family, much less the community or country, to adopt and remove the child from his or her familial, cultural, and religious roots.  This is especially important during times of war, famine, or economic crisis -- when families may be temporarily uprooted or divided.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 05:03:52 PM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Jonathan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 794


WWW
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2009, 05:15:34 PM »

I fully agree with your assessment of Islam. I'm not under the impression that it is a religion of peace. However, H.H. Pope Shenouda's policy is to keep good relations with Muslems out of Christian love and out of a desire to have peace for the church. Abouna Zechariah blatantly goes against this and goes on TV attacking Islam. This is not the impression the article gives, fine, watch some of his stuff for your self and judge for yourself. The argument has been made that it can't be that bad since Egypt wouldn't stand for it. That's probably why he's often hiding in the states or elsewhere and attacking from there. I've only seen a few clips myself. I don't watch it as my priest told us not to because it is not a Christian approach. I just need to see how angry people are when they talk about his arguments to know it isn't right. When people go and argue with my priest and say Abouna Zechariah is a martyr, he asks them if they feel peace in the hearts after watching it, if they feel love for the Moselms who are deceived, or if they feel anger and hatred after watching the show. Many have stopped watching at that.

The message of Christianity is love, not hatred. You don't convert people by making fun of them and their religion, but by loving them. You don't serve by making yourself famous. You don't go against the church and give up the pastoral ministry of the priesthood in order to keep dealing with people in hatred. May God show him the error of his ways.

What hatred are you talking about? Can you give examples?

Much of Islam, well, falls under ridicule only because it cannot withstand scrutiny.  There are no two ways about it.  Take for instance the account of Allah revealing Quran so that Muhammad's daughter in law could divorce her husband, Muhammad's adopted son, so she could marry Muhammad.  AS if that wasn't enough, the Quran bannig adoption so as to uphold Muhammad's moral purity: I have seen many Muslims denigrate adoption because the Quran says you can't be made someone's son if you weren't born it, that adoption is "unnatural" nay "perverse." Then the "Story of the Honey" (a tale about the wives of Muhammad fighting about their turns sleeping with him, and with one in another's bed).   And I haven't even brought up the issue of pedaphilia with Aishah....

Then there's the law that to be reconcilied to a divorced wife, you must have her have sexual intercourse with another man first.

Now, the PC crowd might excuse it by saying "different times, blah, blah, blah"  But Islam says this is "the Best of Mankind" the Quran putting him up as the "Good Example" (33:21).  Try to make a family morality based on the above: Islamic law/shari'ah does (that same law that the Islamicist who killed the military recruiter in AR says made him do it).  So it is behavior not to be excused, but emulated.

I'm aware of the other issues you bring up, but since you bring them up, I'd rather you explain them.
Logged
Salpy
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,376


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2009, 06:45:53 PM »

He has been discussed before.  Click on the tag below.   Smiley
Logged

ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,124



« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2009, 08:54:27 PM »

I fully agree with your assessment of Islam. I'm not under the impression that it is a religion of peace. However, H.H. Pope Shenouda's policy is to keep good relations with Muslems out of Christian love and out of a desire to have peace for the church. Abouna Zechariah blatantly goes against this and goes on TV attacking Islam.

Not all members of the Body are the same, nor do they function the same.  H.H. Pope Shenoudah acts as he is called, but that doesn't mean Fr. Zakaryah has a different calling to the same problem.

Quote
This is not the impression the article gives, fine, watch some of his stuff for your self and judge for yourself.

I have.  I've never found anything objectionble, but I see why he gets under the 'ulamaaa's skin: they can't refute him.

Quote
The argument has been made that it can't be that bad since Egypt wouldn't stand for it. That's probably why he's often hiding in the states or elsewhere and attacking from there. I've only seen a few clips myself. I don't watch it as my priest told us not to because it is not a Christian approach. I just need to see how angry people are when they talk about his arguments to know it isn't right.

No, it is because he is dead right that they are angry.  Kill the messenger if you don't like the message, especially if the message is that the emperor has no clothes.


Quote
When people go and argue with my priest and say Abouna Zechariah is a martyr, he asks them if they feel peace in the hearts after watching it, if they feel love for the Moselms who are deceived, or if they feel anger and hatred after watching the show. Many have stopped watching at that.

Abuna Zakarya isn't talking to anyone who has a priest: he is addressing those who have 'ulamaa', and moreover, he is addressing their 'ulamaa'.  They are angry because he doesn't speak from ignorance but knowledge.  If watching affects a Christian, by all means, don't watch.

They should have peace in their hearts, but there is no peace in the Dar al-Islam, the "Abode of Peace."  The Prince of Peace warned "I come not to bring peace but a sword."
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
stashko
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: ИСТОЧНИ ПРАВОСЛАВНИ СРБИН
Jurisdiction: Non Ecumenist Free Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 4,998


Wonderworking Sitka Icon


« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2009, 09:45:08 PM »

I Like Him,And Agree with what he's doing....
May The Lord Protect Him ,May The Mantle Of The Blessed Ever Virgin Mother Mary Cover Him....Amen
Logged

ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2009, 10:55:32 PM »

The message of Christianity is love, not hatred. You don't convert people by making fun of them and their religion, but by loving them. You don't serve by making yourself famous. You don't go against the church and give up the pastoral ministry of the priesthood in order to keep dealing with people in hatred. May God show him the error of his ways.

How is he hating muslims? He seems to be doing apologetics. Now I agree that it seems to be making alot of muslims angry, but that's their fault for not being able to answer his questions and critique of Islam.

Why should Fr. Zakaria be blamed for that?




JNORM888
Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2009, 11:01:49 PM »

He has been discussed before.  Click on the tag below.   Smiley


Thanks






Jnorm888
Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
jnorm888
Jnorm
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,516


Icon and Cross (international space station)


WWW
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2009, 11:16:09 PM »

Thanks for posting this thread.

It seems like a hard situation on both sides. I'm not surprized if alot of muslims that convert become protestant first. Protestantism is alot closer to Islam in many ways, but hopefully after many years in protestantism, many will find their way to Orthodoxy.









Jnorm888
« Last Edit: June 11, 2009, 11:16:58 PM by jnorm888 » Logged

"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,084


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2009, 01:05:35 PM »

Let's keep this courageous Priest, Father Zakaria Botros, in our prayers!

http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/coptic-priest-fearlessly-spreading-gods-word-cbncom/782543383

Selam
Logged

"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,934


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2009, 02:08:40 PM »

What a wonderful ministry.  May the Lord always protect him, guide him, and strengthen him.
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2009, 02:41:10 PM »

He's been mentioned before on the forum:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=tags;id=3507
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,934


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2009, 02:45:39 PM »

Can anyone substantiate the earlier claim that Fr. Zakaria is not permitted to serve Liturgy?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 03:17:07 PM by Fr. George » Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 10,258


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #26 on: December 15, 2009, 04:30:34 PM »

Can anyone substantiate the earlier claim that Fr. Zakaria is not permitted to serve Liturgy?

Yes, it's true.  But he's not deposed or excommunicated.  The reason however, we may never know fully, until the Coptic Church feels safe to talk about it.
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,934


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2009, 05:13:01 PM »

Can anyone substantiate the earlier claim that Fr. Zakaria is not permitted to serve Liturgy?

Yes, it's true.  But he's not deposed or excommunicated.  The reason however, we may never know fully, until the Coptic Church feels safe to talk about it.

Ahh - so it is possible that it is a measure to protect the faithful by not exposing an entire congregation to the potential for Muslim retaliation?
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 10,258


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2009, 05:21:03 PM »

Can anyone substantiate the earlier claim that Fr. Zakaria is not permitted to serve Liturgy?

Yes, it's true.  But he's not deposed or excommunicated.  The reason however, we may never know fully, until the Coptic Church feels safe to talk about it.

Ahh - so it is possible that it is a measure to protect the faithful by not exposing an entire congregation to the potential for Muslim retaliation?

Very possible.  It could also be an establishment of disagreement with tactics without condemnation.
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,934


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2009, 05:45:27 PM »

Very possible.  It could also be an establishment of disagreement with tactics without condemnation.

True.  If so, it's good that they have manifested it in this way - not depriving him of his priesthood or his ministry, or of communion (our lifeblood).
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
Salpy
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Armenian Church
Posts: 12,376


Pray for the Christians of Iraq and Syria.


« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2012, 09:42:10 PM »

I came home from work today and caught the tail end of an NBC report on the recent fury over the anit-Muslim movie that was allegedly made by a Copt.  The television report seemed to indicate that Fr. Zakaria was somehow involved.  Has anyone else heard anything about this?  I could have gotten it wrong;  Like I said, I just caught the end of the report.
Logged

Aegyptoc
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic Orthodox
Posts: 8


« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2012, 12:46:01 PM »

I recall that the filmmaker said he was inspired by Fr. Zakariyya Botros. But nothing more than that I think.
Logged
Tags: Coptic Orthodox Church Fr. Zakaria Boutrus 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.122 seconds with 60 queries.