Author Topic: Authority sources  (Read 585 times)

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Offline Anastasia1

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Authority sources
« on: September 09, 2012, 11:44:06 PM »
Is the church higher or equal to the Bible in terms of authority?
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Offline Aindriú

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 12:33:22 AM »
Is the church higher or equal to the Bible in terms of authority?

The bible is a 20-sided die and the Church is a 12-sided die. Now, which of the dice is better? We're not playing Dungeons and Dragons here! Stick to the point!

I'm going to need this.

Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2012, 12:41:02 AM »
Is the church higher or equal to the Bible in terms of authority?

The bible is a 20-sided die and the Church is a 12-sided die. Now, which of the dice is better? We're not playing Dungeons and Dragons here! Stick to the point!
I don't get it at all.
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. (2 Cor 2:6)

Offline FatherGiryus

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2012, 12:52:56 AM »
God is the highest authority in the Church.  His will is made known to us through collective judgment of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, that holds forth the Holy Scriptures as witness to His Church.  The Scriptures, therefore, are not separate, but part of the whole revelation of Truth, which is found in the Church.

Those who are outside the Church cannot understand the Scriptures, because the Scriptures are meaningless without the indwelling Holy Spirit.  Therefore, you can't say 'this one has more authority than that' because in order to understand the Scriptures you must have the Holy Spirit, which means you are part of the Body of Christ, the Church, and so such a separation would be an impossibility.

See?


Is the church higher or equal to the Bible in terms of authority?
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Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2012, 01:17:09 AM »
God is the highest authority in the Church.  His will is made known to us through collective judgment of the Church, which is the Body of Christ, that holds forth the Holy Scriptures as witness to His Church.  The Scriptures, therefore, are not separate, but part of the whole revelation of Truth, which is found in the Church.

Those who are outside the Church cannot understand the Scriptures, because the Scriptures are meaningless without the indwelling Holy Spirit.  Therefore, you can't say 'this one has more authority than that' because in order to understand the Scriptures you must have the Holy Spirit, which means you are part of the Body of Christ, the Church, and so such a separation would be an impossibility.

See?


Is the church higher or equal to the Bible in terms of authority?
Ok, this answer makes sense. Now there was another answer I got a while back about the Greek Orthodox view compared to a Protestant view of sola scriptura was that the church helped to determine what was canonized as scripture.  How does this relate?
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2012, 02:22:59 AM »
Is the church higher or equal to the Bible in terms of authority?
The Church is the living body of Christ.

The Scriptures are used by the living body of Christ.

In that sense, they aren't really in the same category to be judged against each other. Does the farmer contend with the plow for authority?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 02:23:41 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2012, 02:35:24 AM »
Is the church higher or equal to the Bible in terms of authority?
The Church is the living body of Christ.

The Scriptures are used by the living body of Christ.

In that sense, they aren't really in the same category to be judged against each other. Does the farmer contend with the plow for authority?
The farmer controls what the plow does to the crops.

The plow cannot act on its own: the farmer can.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 02:35:51 AM by Anastasia1 »
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. (2 Cor 2:6)

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2012, 07:07:32 AM »
Is the church higher or equal to the Bible in terms of authority?

Authority is a Latin term anyway. The Fathers used the Greek exousia, which could be better translated as power or mandate.

Actually, it is not Bible or Church, but Bible in the Church. Who wrote the Bible? The Holy Apostles and Evangelists. Who fixed what is part of the Bible and what not? St. Athanasius of Alexandria and the recognition his canon received in the Church. Who understands the Bible correctly? The Church. The Bible in the Church is like a heart in its body.

And btw, I really recommend you to read Fr. Matta al-Maskeen. Probably the greatest OO Bible commentator during the last centuries.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2012, 08:10:43 AM »
The Fathers used the Greek

And Latin, Arabic, English, Church Slavonic...

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 08:43:13 AM »
The Fathers used the Greek

And Latin, Arabic, English, Church Slavonic...

I mean the Church Fathers in a historical sense, especially those of Alexandria, in the context of an OO discussion. They use Greek and Coptic.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 10:10:03 AM »
Is the church higher or equal to the Bible in terms of authority?

Authority is a Latin term anyway. The Fathers used the Greek exousia, which could be better translated as power or mandate.

Woah, that's so mystical and eastern and completely different!

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Authority sources
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2012, 10:41:05 AM »
The Scriptures outside the context of the Orthodox Church is like a fish out of water.  Or the heart trying to pump on its own outside the body, without the circulation system, or the brain trying to think without the nervous system.

Trying to use the Bible outside of the Church is like owning the manual to a car, and not having the car.
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                           and both come out of your mouth