Author Topic: Church as New Israel  (Read 506 times)

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Offline sprtslvr1973

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Church as New Israel
« on: September 05, 2012, 08:54:43 PM »
Can someone please be a quick reference and let me know where Paul refers to the Church as New Israel?

Also, is there reference to Israelites who stayed behind in Egypt and thus may not be considered of the True Israel?
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Church as New Israel
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 09:20:20 PM »
I don't think the term 'new israel' appears in the New Testament. The church is Israel, there are old/new covenants but one Israel.
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Offline TristanCross

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Re: Church as New Israel
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 09:29:19 PM »
Galatians 3:29 - If you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

The Church is the fullfilment of Israel. The true children of Abraham are not a race (Jews), but are those who put their faith in Christ Jesus.
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Church as New Israel
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2012, 02:35:56 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

The Apostle Paul didn't necessarily say the Church is the new Israel, rather in Galatians chapter 6 the Church is referred to as

Quote
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God.
.

Here is what Saint John Chrysostom had to say about it

Quote
This our rule of life he calls “a new creature,” both on account of what is past, and of what is to come; of what is past, because our soul, which had grown old with the oldness of sin, hath been all at once renewed by baptism, as if it had been created again.163 Wherefore we require a new and heavenly rule of life. And of things to come, because both the heaven and the earth, and all the creation, shall with our bodies be translated into incorruption. Tell me not then, he says, of circumcision, which now availeth nothing; (for how shall it appear, when all things have undergone such a change?) but seek the new things of grace. For they who pursue these things shall enjoy peace and amity, and may properly be called by the name of “Israel.” While they who hold contrary sentiments, although they be descended from him (Israel) and bear his appellation, have yet fallen away from all these things, both the relationship and the name itself. But it is in their power to be true Israelites, who keep this rule, who desist from the old ways, and follow after grace. 

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Offline age234

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Re: Church as New Israel
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2012, 04:41:16 PM »
The parable of the vineyard tenants (which was read in church on a recent Sunday) points to this reality.

I don't know about being left in Egypt, but Christ is clear that the old tenants (Israel) were removed and the covenant (the vineyard—the very same vineyard, not a new one) was given to new tenants (the Gentiles).
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 04:41:41 PM by age234 »

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Church as New Israel
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 01:30:39 PM »
Good afternoon. One thing I don't understand:

The theory is that God made a covenant with the Old Israel, which was a nation. However in fact what counts is one's spiritual belonging to the inner community, as Paul says that a Jew is really who is one inwardly by faith. Paul goes on about how the flesh counts for nothing, and the Church understanding is that Paul calls the Church the "Israel of God" in Galatians. It is the true Israel.

How is it then that the Jewish people as a whole still have the covenantal promise extended to them, when so many of them are not part of the Church that made the covenantal promise with God?

God covenanted with Israel to give it salvation, and the Church believes that this was fulfilled with the creation of the Church as the true Israel, and Paul repeats over and over how those of the flesh but not the spirit don't count as the Israel of God. Yet he ends up saying that all Israel will be saved when the nonbelieving Israelites come back into the fold.

Paul says that he has not cast off his people. Why is it so important and guaranteed that the whole nation will get saved, if in fact the covenant and promise were not made to a fleshly nation?

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Church as New Israel
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 05:52:21 PM »
Good afternoon. One thing I don't understand:

The theory is that God made a covenant with the Old Israel, which was a nation. However in fact what counts is one's spiritual belonging to the inner community, as Paul says that a Jew is really who is one inwardly by faith. Paul goes on about how the flesh counts for nothing, and the Church understanding is that Paul calls the Church the "Israel of God" in Galatians. It is the true Israel.

How is it then that the Jewish people as a whole still have the covenantal promise extended to them, when so many of them are not part of the Church that made the covenantal promise with God?

God covenanted with Israel to give it salvation, and the Church believes that this was fulfilled with the creation of the Church as the true Israel, and Paul repeats over and over how those of the flesh but not the spirit don't count as the Israel of God. Yet he ends up saying that all Israel will be saved when the nonbelieving Israelites come back into the fold.

Paul says that he has not cast off his people. Why is it so important and guaranteed that the whole nation will get saved, if in fact the covenant and promise were not made to a fleshly nation?

Probably because God's promises are irrevocable.

Yet Yeshua warned the Jews that the Kingdom of God would be taken away from them and given to others that will produce fruit in due time. However, Yeshua's prediction may be about the destruction of the Temple.  ;)
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Church as New Israel
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2013, 06:05:02 PM »
Good afternoon. One thing I don't understand:

The theory is that God made a covenant with the Old Israel, which was a nation. However in fact what counts is one's spiritual belonging to the inner community, as Paul says that a Jew is really who is one inwardly by faith. Paul goes on about how the flesh counts for nothing, and the Church understanding is that Paul calls the Church the "Israel of God" in Galatians. It is the true Israel.

How is it then that the Jewish people as a whole still have the covenantal promise extended to them, when so many of them are not part of the Church that made the covenantal promise with God?

God covenanted with Israel to give it salvation, and the Church believes that this was fulfilled with the creation of the Church as the true Israel, and Paul repeats over and over how those of the flesh but not the spirit don't count as the Israel of God. Yet he ends up saying that all Israel will be saved when the nonbelieving Israelites come back into the fold.

Paul says that he has not cast off his people. Why is it so important and guaranteed that the whole nation will get saved, if in fact the covenant and promise were not made to a fleshly nation?

Probably because God's promises are irrevocable.
I am confused. Isn't our teaching that actually the Church is the righteous remnant of Israel, and that God's covenant was really with the true Israel, the Church, and that those who are not of the faith are not really Israelites? How is it then that the covenant would be irrevocable for them, if they weren't Israelites to begin with? The Old Covenant, with its rituals, etc. is no longer in force outside of Christianity, right?

Did God make a covenant with national Israel and that covenant is still around with them?

Or did God make a covenant with Israel, which we consider the righteous Old Testament Church, and since those who never joined the Church are not part of the covenant, they would not be blessed with "irrevocable" benefits?

Israel=the Church=the Ekklesia=the righteous remnant=the Old Testament Church and God made a covenant with it?

And those who are not of faith are not Israelites and their flesh counts for nothing, so how would their future salvation be guaranteed?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 06:09:09 PM by rakovsky »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Church as New Israel
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2013, 06:27:45 PM »
Israel isn't a nation. Israel is a community of believers. That's what the word Ekklesia means. We don't know about the fate of so-called Israelites that exist today who are not Christians. Only God knows their fate.

Christ Himself said: "You will not see me here again, until you say: 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord'" (Matthew 23:39) to the Jews at the Temple in Jerusalem.

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« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 06:28:39 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
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