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Author Topic: has anyone here actually waited till marriage to have sex ?  (Read 4134 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2012, 02:25:44 PM »

because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special...

You must've accidentally edited out the part where you wrote that you also regret it because it's explicitly forbidden by Church teachings.   police
I think James wants an answer outside the Church Wink
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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2012, 02:29:38 PM »

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

Balaam's ass and all that.

Best reply yet.
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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2012, 02:33:56 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
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« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2012, 02:40:28 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.
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« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2012, 02:41:41 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

Freud is brilliant.

Jung is a goof.

And I'll leave it at that.
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« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2012, 02:43:55 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

 For the most part, yes.  Yet I have found his studies on personalities interesting.  Particularly Briggs-Myers usage of Jung's 'personality type' studies.  For the record, I identify with ISFJ type.  Smiley
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« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2012, 02:45:41 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

Freud is brilliant.

Jung is a goof.

And I'll leave it at that.

You're in a very small circle, my friend.
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« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2012, 02:47:05 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

 For the most part, yes.  Yet I have found his studies on personalities interesting.  Particularly Briggs-Myers usage of Jung's 'personality type' studies.  For the record, I identify with ISFJ type.  Smiley

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.

They tell you what you think about yourself, which is why most people overscore on the less commonly distributed but more highly regarded characteristics.

The most important thing I get from your score is that you probably pretty darn honest as you chose one of the most boring / common combos.

Good for you.

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« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2012, 02:48:03 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

Freud is brilliant.

Jung is a goof.

And I'll leave it at that.

You're in a very small circle, my friend.

Actually I am not. If you look at who has had the most most impact on thought Freud easily trumps Jung from the common parlance to academia.
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« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2012, 02:52:13 PM »

Your big three:

Nietzsche, Marx, Freud.

Can't imagine our world without them. And it certainly better for them.

Each has some interesting things to say about sex and marriage. In fact, you probably know some of the quotes without knowing their origin. Who knows?

Too bad each gets read too often by eyes too young to really appreciate them.

Oh well.
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« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2012, 02:57:32 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

 For the most part, yes.  Yet I have found his studies on personalities interesting.  Particularly Briggs-Myers usage of Jung's 'personality type' studies.  For the record, I identify with ISFJ type.  Smiley

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.

They tell you what you think about yourself, which is why most people overscore on the less commonly distributed but more highly regarded characteristics.

The most important thing I get from your score is that you probably pretty darn honest as you chose one of the most boring / common combos.

Good for you.



Yup, I'm country-boy vanilla. 
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« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2012, 03:00:51 PM »

Your big three:

Nietzsche, Marx, Freud.

Can't imagine our world without them. And it certainly better for them.

Each has some interesting things to say about sex and marriage. In fact, you probably know some of the quotes without knowing their origin. Who knows?

Too bad each gets read too often by eyes too young to really appreciate them.

Oh well.

I disagree with your assesment.  Instead of lauding these 'big three', I advocate studying Scripture and Patristics first for in them you will find a thorough understanding of the human condition far superior.
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« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2012, 04:44:14 PM »

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow.
Time to go back to trying to read Romans.

+ 500 million.

James, seriously, do it. A healthy understanding of Romans will change your whole outlook on faith.
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« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2012, 04:47:55 PM »

Myers-Briggs is nonsense
Thank you.

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.
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« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2012, 04:49:52 PM »

because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special...

You must've accidentally edited out the part where you wrote that you also regret it because it's explicitly forbidden by Church teachings.   police

Obvious reason is obvious. ;P
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« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2012, 04:50:52 PM »

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

That is why God looks down on Fornication.
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« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2012, 04:55:44 PM »

Myers-Briggs is nonsense
Thank you.

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

I scored a straight 100.  You're just jealous.

As for the OP - I have heard strange stories from the ancient past of such things taking place in the time of the Nephilim...
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« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2012, 05:04:28 PM »

As for the OP - I have heard strange stories from the ancient past of such things taking place in the time of the Nephilim...

James is a giant hybrid between the sons of the Elohim and human concubines?

No wonder he has so much lady drama.  Wink
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« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2012, 05:10:43 PM »

When I read of James' fantasies, I cannot help but think of a Chihuahua and a German Shepherd that I saw once.  The Chihuahua was going to town on the Shepherd's leg, and the Shepherd had a most confused look on her face.
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« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2012, 05:16:07 PM »

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

That is why God looks down on Fornication.
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« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2012, 05:32:24 PM »

Your big three:

Nietzsche, Marx, Freud.

Can't imagine our world without them. And it certainly better for them.

Each has some interesting things to say about sex and marriage. In fact, you probably know some of the quotes without knowing their origin. Who knows?

Too bad each gets read too often by eyes too young to really appreciate them.

Oh well.


If only Lenin had read Marx when he was a little older. There wouldn't have been so many New Martyrs and Confessors if he had just appreciated Marx when he brain was fully developed.
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« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2012, 06:08:03 PM »

Quote from: orthonorm

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.


Is that the one they had in the beginning of 'Blade Runner'?
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« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2012, 06:34:24 PM »

Quote from: orthonorm

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.


Is that the one they had in the beginning of 'Blade Runner'?
No that's the Voight Kampf test. Completely different. Are you a replicant biro!?
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« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2012, 06:41:07 PM »

Nah, my eyes don't have a stripe in them.  Wink
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« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2012, 07:11:09 PM »

Nah, my eyes don't have a stripe in them.  Wink

How can it not know what it is? Wink
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« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2012, 11:40:30 PM »

Myers-Briggs is nonsense
Thank you.

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?
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« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2012, 09:03:24 AM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.
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« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2012, 12:26:57 PM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

 I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?
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« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2012, 12:30:08 PM »

Why do you believe it's nonsense?
Because it doesn't tell you anything you don't already know.
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« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2012, 12:30:34 PM »

I was also aware of many companies using it
HR cults do a lot of things, Gabe.
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« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2012, 12:38:29 PM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

 I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. Companies like to do this sorta thing cause they get sold on it by those who hawk their wares cause it seems to boost morale a bit, much like some motivational speakers (revival tent preacher), "team building" BS, etc.

Of course every so many years they change the test so people can get the narcissistic joy of taking some tool that has zero help in diagnosing much of anything especially anything that might actually point toward psychological problems.

MB
Enneagram
Strength Finder
etc.

Tell us about yourself in some straight forward fashion and will give you some jargon about how to talk more about yourself.

E/INT/FP.

People over score on the N/P according to the very documentation which started this whole mess would suggest exists in the world.

Know thyself in an hour or less.

Kind criticism of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Validity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability
 
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« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2012, 12:39:49 PM »

Why do you believe it's nonsense?
Because it doesn't tell you anything you don't already know.
I disagree, but you described it as 'nonsense'.  Your reply doesn't match your sentiments.  And calling Human Resources 'cults' demonstrates a lack of understanding of what HR does.  It's also just plain weird.  
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« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2012, 12:46:42 PM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

 I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. Companies like to do this sorta thing cause they get sold on it by those who hawk their wares cause it seems to boost morale a bit, much like some motivational speakers (revival tent preacher), "team building" BS, etc.

Of course every so many years they change the test so people can get the narcissistic joy of taking some tool that has zero help in diagnosing much of anything especially anything that might actually point toward psychological problems.

MB
Enneagram
Strength Finder
etc.

Tell us about yourself in some straight forward fashion and will give you some jargon about how to talk more about yourself.

E/INT/FP.

People over score on the N/P according to the very documentation which started this whole mess would suggest exists in the world.

Know thyself in an hour or less.

Kind criticism of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Validity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability
 

Friend, what I really wish you would concentrate on is things you actually know about.  I know Psychologists (both PhD.s and Psych.D.s) who administer the MB.  I'm inpressed that you can find a Wiki article so quickly, but less impressed with your actual knowledge.  For example, are you now the arbiter of what is and isn't a 'legitimate' Psychologist?  Seems like you just like to hear yourself talk.  I'm done with you.
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« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2012, 12:49:45 PM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

 I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. Companies like to do this sorta thing cause they get sold on it by those who hawk their wares cause it seems to boost morale a bit, much like some motivational speakers (revival tent preacher), "team building" BS, etc.

Of course every so many years they change the test so people can get the narcissistic joy of taking some tool that has zero help in diagnosing much of anything especially anything that might actually point toward psychological problems.

MB
Enneagram
Strength Finder
etc.

Tell us about yourself in some straight forward fashion and will give you some jargon about how to talk more about yourself.

E/INT/FP.

People over score on the N/P according to the very documentation which started this whole mess would suggest exists in the world.

Know thyself in an hour or less.

Kind criticism of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Validity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability
 

Friend, what I really wish you would concentrate on is things you actually know about.  I know Psychologists (both PhD.s and Psych.D.s) who administer the MB.  I'm inpressed that you can find a Wiki article so quickly, but less impressed with your actual knowledge.  For example, are you now the arbiter of what is and isn't a 'legitimate' Psychologist?  Seems like you just like to hear yourself talk.

Yes I am.

If they are giving an MB, they are a quack, unless it is for a laugh, hopefully among friends and not at their clients expense.
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« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2012, 12:52:13 PM »

I choose wikipedia due to its credibility and that fact it is sources it claims well in that article. The criticism (the fact there needs to be some is sad) is easily found.

Enjoy your fortune cookie.

The fact you buy into this is weird.

As useful as getting your palm read by a decent cold / warm reader. Actually, less, that reader if not a charlatan might actually give you something useful for your time.

/finished
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« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2012, 01:15:50 PM »

I've honestly decided to no longer take people seriously when they "disprove" or discredit something. If anyone does a credible and reliable study out there, or uses a proven and credible method. There is inevitably going to be someone (or even a group) who disagrees for one reason or another and comes up with a conflicting study that supposedly discredits whatever they want to discredit.

If someone disagrees with something, inevitably they are going to find proof that what they disagree with is actually wrong.

One study may suggest that low, but regular levels of consumption of red wine can help prolong one's life. Another study would come forward "disproving" that idea, suggesting the absolute opposite.

There are some people out there who supposedly have found proof that the Earth is actually young, and that mankind & dinosaurs co-existed. There are others who have supposedly found proof that global warming doesn't actually exist, or that mankind isn't contributing to it.

I think it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Or its like many archeologists. If an archeologist wants to find Atlantis, and looks for it, he is inevitably going to "find" it. Like those looking for the Holy Grail or some other holy object. They look for it, and when they find something from that time period, they fit it into their narrative. Many will search for a female goddess in ancient Judaism and so will look at what they think are ancient Jewish synagogues or Hebrew places of worship and will move it's contents around to fit where they think they should go, and therefore create their own narrative, their own history.

I don't know anything about what you guys are talking about (that is, the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator), but I've simply come to the point where I just simply don't care about what dissenters have "proven" unless it is actually something that it is actually proven and it can be proven that most experts (whether they be scientists, historians, psychologists etc...) actually accept the dissenting point of view.

Instead of just linking to Wikipedia, I would suggest actually citing reliable and majority sources (that are peer-reviewed) on the subject. As well as showing study-based evidence that proves the majority of experts accept the point you are making.
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« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2012, 01:21:27 PM »

Why do you believe it's nonsense?
Because it doesn't tell you anything you don't already know.

That is BS, unless you are one of those that thinks you know everything.
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« Reply #82 on: September 05, 2012, 01:28:37 PM »


No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. 

More BS.  Not only do major companies use it (administered by psycologists), but the military does, too.  In fact, the psychologist that I dealt with spent years working with the Air Force using the MB as a part of the program.  And believe me, it is not done to "boost morale".  Some of these sessions were anything but cheerful rah rah sessions.  But then again, you have pretty much proved to me that you know nothing about this particular subject, so I can see further discussion about this with you will provide little useful information.
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2012, 02:35:06 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Freud is is a cliched brilliant.

Jung is a goof. genius

And I'll leave it at that.

Fixed that for ya Wink
How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

For much of history, people got married around the time their sexual appetites got to that point. The biggest issue may be that people wait 10 years longer to marry than their bodies say they should. However, that's not an excuse for fornication. Appealing to circumstance is nothing less than an excuse, and neither is "everyone is doing it."

To the OP, I have and will continue to wait. I'm thankful to personally know many people who also make this obedience a priority.

We read of plenty of folks in the time of the Fathers marrying in their late 20s for the same reasons people wait to get married today, financial, political, and socio-cultural aspects of the Roman Empire.  It is not surprising as we live in the New Rome that we deal with the parallel issues.  In other words, we can't necessarily blame some kind of societal gap which conflicts with our biology, because in other societies we've had the same situation.  Just because people are sexually driven at 15, doesn't necessarily imply these always do or even should get married.  Some people get married young, some do not.  Some people can wait until marriage to cool their sexual appetites, some can not.  It is important for us to understand two things about this (a) overcoming our carnal appetites be they for food, wrath, or sex, can only happen in synergy with God and not by our own force of will and (b) when we inevitably fail at these ideals (which we all will do in some way or another) this is precisely why Confession has been instituted for Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 02:43:21 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2012, 03:08:24 PM »

OK, I admit I was broad in my comment about marriage age. I was mostly thinking of the ancient Jews (and probably others) who tended to get married in their younger teens. That may have been more culturally-specific than I realized.

But I think we all agree that the calling to a high standard of conduct remains, and fornication is never acceptable, regardless of the marriage age. Waiting until marriage to have sex is totally possible if it's a high enough priority in one's life. Millions and millions of people manage it.
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #85 on: September 05, 2012, 03:18:13 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

OK, I admit I was broad in my comment about marriage age. I was mostly thinking of the ancient Jews (and probably others) who tended to get married in their younger teens. That may have been more culturally-specific than I realized.

But I think we all agree that the calling to a high standard of conduct remains, and fornication is never acceptable, regardless of the marriage age.

Many Christian cultures through out history and today have a period of "extended engagment" where folks essentially look the other way about sexual activity and if pregnancy results it is expected the young couple gets married.  Divorce is a social institution as much as an individual one.  We as a society or culture or social-support group accept and embrace divorce rather than reconciliation, we acquiesce to it rather then pushing and supporting reconciling.  This is how promiscuity and fornication have become the normal sexuality of the modern world, because we don't enforce the societal relationships and expectations of marriage in the first place! Historically, sexual expression has always been a shade of gray, and marriage has always been an ideal, however it was one which more often was supported rather then scoffed or neglected.  The entire family and indeed must support marriage for it to work.  We have to think of divorce as almost akin to spiritual suicide and work from them.  Its not about being over judgmental or harsh, rather the opposite, to be reconciling, embracing, supportive, empathetic to the cause of marriage.  We have to support our marriages, encourage our marriages, love our married folks, not just shrug our shoulders and accept divorce as the new marriage.  Before, kids could be allowed to have these extended engagements because society as a whole would hold them to the expectation of getting married rather today, we still allow kids to form the same relationships we always have for thousands of years, rather, we don't expect marriage any long  Undecided

Above all else, we need to promote Sacramental Marriage. Lets be honest, why is marriage failing in America? Its not Sacramental and so is not blessed by God's Grace.  Our Protestant and secular marriages are largely imaginary in the eyes of God, so what can we expect? We are trying to force ourselves into marriages which are not sanctified, and it is no wonder these fail time and time again. ALL marriage will inherently fail if solely by human efforts, this is why God sent us the Mystery of Holy Matrimony so that by His Grace He can keep us together when things get hard to bear.  In the 1950s a large portion of marriages were at the least Lutheran and hence pseudo-Sacramental, but the proof is in the pudding. Look how many of these marriages have lasted 50-60 years? How many of our imaginary, non-Sacramental marriages since have lasted that duration? Its embarrassing really.  We as Orthodox need to promote and encourage at every social level the concept and blessing of Sacramental Marriage, which can save our society and our fellow brothers and sisters from burning in lust.  Marriage sanctified sexuality, it converts lust into love.  Selfish seeking of pleasure becomes the desire to spiritually fulfill the needs of the other.  Sex outside of this marriage has realistically devolved into masturbation with a partner Sad

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 03:20:00 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2012, 03:43:27 PM »

Good stuff there, habte.
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« Reply #87 on: September 05, 2012, 03:45:03 PM »

I was listening to an Orthodox priest talking about how people in our faith did marry much younger way back when and that we need to provide people with community resources to maintain chastity as now the task largely falls on the individual. I asked for some Orthodox resources because our Catholic brethren seem to have a slew of resources - groups, forums, meetings, clubs etc to deal with chastity.
Also I've heard how 'courting' is starting to make a comeback, where both families are involved, and the courtship takes place within a more communal atmosphere. It sounds great, part of the idea is that the family makes sure you're not passing yourself off as someone you're not. It's hard to do today because so many families are broken up, but I don't know, perhaps some Orthodox entrepreneur will start an internet courting service... 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 03:54:50 PM by spiltteeth » Logged
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« Reply #88 on: September 05, 2012, 03:52:21 PM »

I was listening to an Orthodox priest talking about how people in our faith did marry much younger way back when and that we need to provide people with community resources to maintain chastity as now the task largely falls on the individual. I asked for some Orthodox resources because our Catholic brethren seem to have a slew of resources - groups, forums, meetings, clubs etc to deal with chastity.

Did he provide any? What are some of the Catholic resources you found?
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St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #89 on: September 05, 2012, 03:56:34 PM »

This lightside religious stuff seems very confusing and burdensome. The dark side seems much more appealing right now. No more judgment or condemnation, no more guilt or impossible ethical code to follow. Just absolute freedom and indulgence in my passions--along with the ability to be accepting of everyone opposed to judging them or telling them how they ought to behave like religion does. I highly sympathize with Anakin Skywalker's fall to the darkside.

Sorry I've been watching too much Star Wars
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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James, you have problemz.
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