has anyone here actually waited till marriage to have sex ?

[spiltteeth]

I would love to find a girl willing to wait; but these days in Ny they don't seem to exist. I fear i may never find anyone. Also does anyone know of any resourses or practical advice on remaining chaste?  Thank you.

[Justin Kissel]

Both my wife and I were virgins when we married. Well, mostly. Our conduct wasn't perfect, and we went to, say, 2nd base.

Do you know about the prayers for purity? It might be good to pray that as part of a daily prayer rule...

[Shiny]

I know two girls in my life that are waiting, and the girls who I have been with all regret losing their virginity and agree it's best to wait for marriage.

Those kind of girls are out there, you just gotta look.

[Valekhai]

has anyone here actually waited till marriage to have sex ?

*raises hand*

I would love to find a girl willing to wait; but these days in Ny they don't seem to exist. I fear i may never find anyone.

A few years ago I would have said that you're probably looking in the wrong places, but recently I've been surprised to find out how many of my friends and relatives didn't wait, and they're all much more religious than I was.
Still, I know a lot of girls who are apparently faithfully waiting, but I also live next to a very conservative Evangelical college.

Also does anyone know of any resourses or practical advice on remaining chaste?  Thank you.

For you or for the girls you meet? It sounds like you have the desire to remain chaste, but not them. Here's a bit of cliche advice that's usually given to young ladies about men, but it's relevant here: if they really love you and are worth your time, they'll respect you enough to wait and not pressure you to do anything you really don't want to.

[JamesR]

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

[genesisone]

I would love to find a girl willing to wait; but these days in Ny they don't seem to exist. I fear i may never find anyone. Also does anyone know of any resourses or practical advice on remaining chaste?  Thank you.

You say want "a girl willing to wait". You're not responsible for all the girls out there. Your responsibility is to prepare yourself for the woman who will best complement you. (Please notice I wrote "complement" NOT "compliment". If you don't know the difference, look it up. The meanings aren't even close.) There are lots of threads here about chastity and celibacy (somewhat related). Have you had a chance to read through those?

Society will not likely make this easy for you. But society should not be your guide.

[genesisone]

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls or girls who are not virgins? You men act as if you deserve a virgin or as if you are better than them because you are chaste. Fornication is not wrong. If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

JamesR, your point about teenage marriage actually makes some sense. This will explain the point more fully. My wife's grandparents married (in 1911) when they were 16 and 19. They remained married for over 82 years before Grandpa passed away. (Yes, 82 is correct - my mother-in-law was 81 years old with both parents still alive - she was born 11 months after her parents married. Do the math before jumping to any conclusions  ). When the extended family will support a young couple, it can work.

The rest of your message will lead to trouble, though I know you will refuse to believe me since you state very clearly that you have rejected the Church's teaching on purity - and my counsel comes with much less authority. I really hope that spiltteeth has enough sense to ignore your advice.

[JamesR]

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls or girls who are not virgins? You men act as if you deserve a virgin or as if you are better than them because you are chaste. Fornication is not wrong. If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

JamesR, your point about teenage marriage actually makes some sense. This will explain the point more fully. My wife's grandparents married (in 1911) when they were 16 and 19. They remained married for over 82 years before Grandpa passed away. (Yes, 82 is correct - my mother-in-law was 81 years old with both parents still alive - she was born 11 months after her parents married. Do the math before jumping to any conclusions  ). When the extended family will support a young couple, it can work.

The rest of your message will lead to trouble, though I know you will refuse to believe me since you state very clearly that you have rejected the Church's teaching on purity - and my counsel comes with much less authority. I really hope that spiltteeth has enough sense to ignore your advice.

Kind of hard to accept that something is so evil when you came from it.

[William]

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls or girls who are not virgins? You men act as if you deserve a virgin or as if you are better than them because you are chaste. Fornication is not wrong. If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

JamesR, your point about teenage marriage actually makes some sense. This will explain the point more fully. My wife's grandparents married (in 1911) when they were 16 and 19. They remained married for over 82 years before Grandpa passed away. (Yes, 82 is correct - my mother-in-law was 81 years old with both parents still alive - she was born 11 months after her parents married. Do the math before jumping to any conclusions  ). When the extended family will support a young couple, it can work.

The rest of your message will lead to trouble, though I know you will refuse to believe me since you state very clearly that you have rejected the Church's teaching on purity - and my counsel comes with much less authority. I really hope that spiltteeth has enough sense to ignore your advice.

Kind of hard to accept that something is so evil when you came from it.

My parents only met because of the colonialism you hate so much.

[dzheremi]

Lots of good things come out of less than ideal circumstances. We do not scrap the ideal as a result.

[KBN1]

I'm not married so I can't speak about "til marriage", but so far so good.  No one is busting the doors down though...

[minasoliman]

Lots of good things come out of less than ideal circumstances. We do not scrap the ideal as a result.

Well put!

[JamesR]

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

[KBN1]

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

But sexual appetite is not insatiable.  In fact, it likely doesn't even need to be satisfied.

[augustin717]

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

But sexual appetite is not insatiable.  In fact, it likely doesn't even need to be satisfied.

Come on

[dzheremi]

Yeah! And how can God expect us not to eat a jar of chocolate frosting for dinner when chocolate frosting tastes so good? (Sorry...it's my birthday in two days...I have cake on the brain.)

Ohhhh...that's right...the fasting and prayers and prostrations and all that...

It's really difficult, JamesR. I know. I've been there. I've made all kinds of mistakes, and still do. But when you are serious about this life and the next, you work to try to control the passions. There is no short cut or easy answer. Just do as good as you can do, get up when you fall, and trust that God can do what you can't, if you call upon His mercy and His strength.

Remember, O Lord, Your tender mercies and Your lovingkindnesses,
For they are from of old.
Do not remember the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions;
According to Your mercy remember me,
For Your goodness’ sake, O Lord.

Good and upright is the Lord;
Therefore He teaches sinners in the way.
The humble He guides in justice,
And the humble He teaches His way.
All the paths of the Lord are mercy and truth,
To such as keep His covenant and His testimonies.
For Your name’s sake, O Lord,
Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.

(Psalm 25:6-11)

[KBN1]

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

But sexual appetite is not insatiable.  In fact, it likely doesn't even need to be satisfied.

Come on

Oh yeah, I suppose you are right.  After all, we don't have any examples of any saints that have struggled mightily and successfully against the sexual appetite.  My bad.

[augustin717]

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

But sexual appetite is not insatiable.  In fact, it likely doesn't even need to be satisfied.

Come on

Oh yeah, I suppose you are right.  After all, we don't have any examples of any saints that have struggled mightily and successfully against the sexual appetite.  My bad.

Struggling mightily can  be fun, but I'll stop here.

[ialmisry]

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls?

If you get involved with one, you might be unfortunate enough to find out.

[Antonis]

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

Its quite typical to argue against things that you want to do.

It is an approach many take. Instead of taking the Faith and adjusting our lives to it, we take our lives and try to adjust the Faith to it, justifying desperately in any way possible that we can, when, in reality, we just want to cave to our primal urge and be satisfied.

I haven't heard you argue against gluttony being a sin, or alcoholism, when there are predispositions for both of those. Welcome to the fallen world.

[Shiny]

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

But does that make fornication right?

[Justin Kissel]

[edit]

[age234]

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

For much of history, people got married around the time their sexual appetites got to that point. The biggest issue may be that people wait 10 years longer to marry than their bodies say they should. However, that's not an excuse for fornication. Appealing to circumstance is nothing less than an excuse, and neither is "everyone is doing it."

To the OP, I have and will continue to wait. I'm thankful to personally know many people who also make this obedience a priority.

[genesisone]

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls or girls who are not virgins? You men act as if you deserve a virgin or as if you are better than them because you are chaste. Fornication is not wrong. If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

JamesR, your point about teenage marriage actually makes some sense. This will explain the point more fully. My wife's grandparents married (in 1911) when they were 16 and 19. They remained married for over 82 years before Grandpa passed away. (Yes, 82 is correct - my mother-in-law was 81 years old with both parents still alive - she was born 11 months after her parents married. Do the math before jumping to any conclusions  ). When the extended family will support a young couple, it can work.

The rest of your message will lead to trouble, though I know you will refuse to believe me since you state very clearly that you have rejected the Church's teaching on purity - and my counsel comes with much less authority. I really hope that spiltteeth has enough sense to ignore your advice.

Kind of hard to accept that something is so evil when you came from it.

JamesR, my biological mother gave birth to seven children from three different fathers and was married to none of them. My biological father was married to another woman. What they did was just plain wrong. Many people were badly hurt by all those affairs.

"Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are put in this world to rise above." (In context, Rose Sayer was referring to fallen human nature as demonstrated in Charlie's habitual drinking.) The quote, BTW, is from one of my favourite movies.

Yes, God does work with us fallen creatures, but shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? (Read Romans 6 for the answer.)

[Shiny]

If you get involved with one, you might be unfortunate enough to find out.

LOL exactly.

[JamesR]

I just do not get it guys. Sure I can fast, pray and do all of these hard things to suppress my sexual appetite like the Saints have, but that ignores the central question of why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires? Sure I can hear all of this stuff about being born into a 'fallen world' but why should I have to suffer the consequences of something my ancestors did? Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us? Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

[Shiny]

I just do not get it guys. Sure I can fast, pray and do all of these hard things to suppress my sexual appetite like the Saints have, but that ignores the central question of why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires? Sure I can hear all of this stuff about being born into a 'fallen world' but why should I have to suffer the consequences of something my ancestors did? Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us? Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Impossible?

Well yeah we are sexual beings but it has to have context. If you can learn anything from my stupidity it would be sex would be much better in a marriage.

[dzheremi]

I just do not get it guys. Sure I can fast, pray and do all of these hard things to suppress my sexual appetite like the Saints have, but that ignores the central question of why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires?

Because the desires in and of themselves are not wrong, but as Achronos rightly points out, they need to be exercised responsibly and in the right context (marriage). It's just like how God gives us an appetite to crave food, which is often quite enjoyable to eat. But if we do not control this impulse (not eating 500 "meals" a day or whatever), we'll get into trouble. Again, the impulse itself is good (if we never had an appetite, we'd wind up with all kinds of health problems from not getting the necessary nutrients to live), but the way we express it can be bad if we allow it to run rampant in our lives with no attempt to control it.

Sure I can hear all of this stuff about being born into a 'fallen world' but why should I have to suffer the consequences of something my ancestors did?

Everyone who is born into this world is born into circumstances beyond their control. If you consider it "suffering" that you can't control the world, I don't know what to say. Prayer should help you overcome this desire to control everything.

Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us?

(1) God doesn't force us to do anything
(2) Remember the cross

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death,

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but this strikes me as awfully nonchalant about the single greatest act in the history of...everything.

but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Maybe you should post less and pray more.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

God allows many things we can't understand. I lost my mother when I was younger than you are, and she's been gone for about as long as you've been alive. I can say now that I am a bit older and maybe had more experience in life in general that while I'll never stop missing her and wishing she were here, there were also many things I learned through that experience that I couldn't have learned otherwise. And it was ultimately what was best for her, as she wasn't living much of a life before that, wasting away from cancer for 18 months in various emergency rooms and hospitals. But to get to that point, I had to stop thinking so much about myself and how this horrible set of circumstances had befallen ME, and how could God allow this, and all that. Maturity is hard. Really, really hard.

[Aindriú]

*cough* Original Sin *cough*

[Sleeper]

Pretty sweet reading this thread and then the one on JamesR wanting, nay expecting, to see the Uncreated Light. 

[88Devin12]

What the heck James? God didn't "create you" that way. He doesn't create us with overwhelming sexual desires, he doesn't create us to "naturally" lust.

All of it is a result of our fall. Our bodies have begun to dictate the actions and direction of our souls. God doesn't create you with these desires, you are born with them because you are a part of the fallen human race.

We don't just say "I can shoot heroine just because I have a insatiable desire to, and I was born addicted."

Also, a blessing may come from an evil, but that doesn't make the evil right.

[Shiny]

Pretty sweet reading this thread and then the one on JamesR wanting, nay expecting, to see the Uncreated Light. 

Lol

[Cavaradossi]

I just do not get it guys. Sure I can fast, pray and do all of these hard things to suppress my sexual appetite like the Saints have, but that ignores the central question of why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires? Sure I can hear all of this stuff about being born into a 'fallen world' but why should I have to suffer the consequences of something my ancestors did? Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us? Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

[88Devin12]

A good and relevant quote from St Theophan the Recluse:

"I shall repeat again: Maintain the conviction that our disorderliness is not natural to us, and do not listen to those who say, 'It is no use talking about it, because that is just how we are made, and you cannot do anything about it,' That is not how we are made, and if we undertake to cure ourselves, then we will be able to do something about it. - St Theophan the Recluse from The Spiritual Life

[NicholasMyra]

why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires?

Don't blame God. Blame the human forces at be that keep you from feasibly marrying young.

[NicholasMyra]

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow.

Time to go back to trying to read Romans.

[Cavaradossi]

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow.

Time to go back to trying to read Romans.

Particularly Romans 9. 

[SolEX01]

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow.

You can't drink the cup that Jesus drank from?  Very, very few of us can.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

Maybe that's the armor you need to protect yourself from fornication.  You have to take the first step.

[augustin717]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

[Alpo]

*cough* Original Sin *cough*

Is Western! Is outrage!

[celticfan1888]

Sadly I didn't, and I wish I did, because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special, considering we...yeah anyway, without getting graphic, I regret it. So stay celibate till marriage.

[NicholasMyra]

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

[MarkosC]

re: the title of this thread, I know some people who have, and many, many more who likely have.  Most people I know don’t really advertise either way – and I would be wary of people who advertise their sexual lives or lack thereof.   To find such a member of the oppose sex, my own practical advice would just be to hang around and meet people.   

IMO, sex is a statement of permanent love between the two people, with God, and with the children that frequent sex can produce.   If we take these out of the equation – especially the first three – then we have serious problems.   

Also, whether one has/hasn’t had sex before IMO is not as important as what one thinks right now (i.e. what’s in one’s heart, to say nothing of repentance, means a lot), as well as one’s attempt to live it (i.e. being chaste because you have no libido is easy.   Being chaste – both in body and in your heart - while being really horny is to be a witness)

Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls?

If you get involved with one, you might be unfortunate enough to find out.

"Amen" to that.  A truly promiscuous person (not just someone who’s had sex outside of marriage, but one who actively goes about looking for frequent sex with different people) uses sex and their sexual partners as toys.  In the end, they don’t care at all about either beyond their own pleasure.   They also don’t really care about their health, for that matter.  Ick!   

Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us? Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

"Doing something for us" or "making it easy" would be an indication that he doesn't want us to participate with him in something, i.e. goodness, love for your spouse, or in creation of new humans.  It would also imply that we're just God's toys, and/or that sex is some sort of unimportant automatic task like eating or resting or some such. 

I am also very sorry that your mother's story has been so difficult.   But again, we're not God's pets or toys.  He respects our choices, to include our sinfulness, and often does not save us from the consequence of our sins, nor does he necessarily "save" the innocent from the consequences of others' sin.   This is why sin can be so horrible - it has consequences for you and can often have horrible consequences for other people, a cycle that can perpetuate itself.   Salvation is the opposite - it is our invitation to participate with God and break such cycles.   From a pastoral perspective -looking out for the good of the people of the church - abuse is always wrong and needs to be directly, unequivocally condemned.  Fornication is also wrong it is arguably "not as bad", and how to deal with it for the good of the person can vary - direct unequivocal condemnation in some cases is not the best way.  Rather, working with people slowly and patiently is often better.   

Again, IMO, from salvation's perspective what happens before - to you, to me, to anyone - is not as important as what is done today.

[Cognomen]

because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special...

You must've accidentally edited out the part where you wrote that you also regret it because it's explicitly forbidden by Church teachings.  

[pensateomnia]

For much of history, people got married around the time their sexual appetites got to that point. The biggest issue may be that people wait 10 years longer to marry than their bodies say they should.

It depends on what you mean by "history." In most civilized contexts, including ancient China, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Britain -- basically, almost any place on Earth during periods where there was some degree of stable government, from ancient times through the medieval period -- it was very unusual for men to get married before the age of 20 and more typical for them to marry in their late twenties or even early 30s. The age for women varied, but it was typically well after the beginning of puberty and, in many areas, reserved for those in the late teens or even early twenties. Rich/noble people tended to marry on the earlier side of the spectrum; normal people on the later.

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OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Faith Issues (Moderator: Mor Ephrem) > Topic: has anyone here actually waited till marriage to have sex ?