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Author Topic: has anyone here actually waited till marriage to have sex ?  (Read 4513 times) Average Rating: 0
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spiltteeth
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« on: September 03, 2012, 04:41:31 PM »

I would love to find a girl willing to wait; but these days in Ny they don't seem to exist. I fear i may never find anyone. Also does anyone know of any resourses or practical advice on remaining chaste?  Thank you.
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2012, 04:45:14 PM »

Both my wife and I were virgins when we married. Well, mostly. Our conduct wasn't perfect, and we went to, say, 2nd base.

Do you know about the prayers for purity? It might be good to pray that as part of a daily prayer rule...
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 04:46:56 PM »

I know two girls in my life that are waiting, and the girls who I have been with all regret losing their virginity and agree it's best to wait for marriage.

Those kind of girls are out there, you just gotta look.
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 05:24:11 PM »

has anyone here actually waited till marriage to have sex ?
*raises hand*

I would love to find a girl willing to wait; but these days in Ny they don't seem to exist. I fear i may never find anyone.
A few years ago I would have said that you're probably looking in the wrong places, but recently I've been surprised to find out how many of my friends and relatives didn't wait, and they're all much more religious than I was.
Still, I know a lot of girls who are apparently faithfully waiting, but I also live next to a very conservative Evangelical college.

Also does anyone know of any resourses or practical advice on remaining chaste?  Thank you.
For you or for the girls you meet? It sounds like you have the desire to remain chaste, but not them. Here's a bit of cliche advice that's usually given to young ladies about men, but it's relevant here: if they really love you and are worth your time, they'll respect you enough to wait and not pressure you to do anything you really don't want to.
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2012, 05:33:33 PM »

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 05:49:10 PM by JamesR » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 05:39:40 PM »

I would love to find a girl willing to wait; but these days in Ny they don't seem to exist. I fear i may never find anyone. Also does anyone know of any resourses or practical advice on remaining chaste?  Thank you.
You say want "a girl willing to wait". You're not responsible for all the girls out there. Your responsibility is to prepare yourself for the woman who will best complement you. (Please notice I wrote "complement" NOT "compliment". If you don't know the difference, look it up. The meanings aren't even close.) There are lots of threads here about chastity and celibacy (somewhat related). Have you had a chance to read through those?

Society will not likely make this easy for you. But society should not be your guide.
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 05:51:58 PM »

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls or girls who are not virgins? You men act as if you deserve a virgin or as if you are better than them because you are chaste. Fornication is not wrong. If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.
JamesR, your point about teenage marriage actually makes some sense. This will explain the point more fully. My wife's grandparents married (in 1911) when they were 16 and 19. They remained married for over 82 years before Grandpa passed away. (Yes, 82 is correct - my mother-in-law was 81 years old with both parents still alive - she was born 11 months after her parents married. Do the math before jumping to any conclusions  Wink). When the extended family will support a young couple, it can work.

The rest of your message will lead to trouble, though I know you will refuse to believe me since you state very clearly that you have rejected the Church's teaching on purity - and my counsel comes with much less authority. I really hope that spiltteeth has enough sense to ignore your advice.
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 05:54:27 PM »

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls or girls who are not virgins? You men act as if you deserve a virgin or as if you are better than them because you are chaste. Fornication is not wrong. If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.
JamesR, your point about teenage marriage actually makes some sense. This will explain the point more fully. My wife's grandparents married (in 1911) when they were 16 and 19. They remained married for over 82 years before Grandpa passed away. (Yes, 82 is correct - my mother-in-law was 81 years old with both parents still alive - she was born 11 months after her parents married. Do the math before jumping to any conclusions  Wink). When the extended family will support a young couple, it can work.

The rest of your message will lead to trouble, though I know you will refuse to believe me since you state very clearly that you have rejected the Church's teaching on purity - and my counsel comes with much less authority. I really hope that spiltteeth has enough sense to ignore your advice.

Kind of hard to accept that something is so evil when you came from it.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 05:59:43 PM »

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls or girls who are not virgins? You men act as if you deserve a virgin or as if you are better than them because you are chaste. Fornication is not wrong. If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.
JamesR, your point about teenage marriage actually makes some sense. This will explain the point more fully. My wife's grandparents married (in 1911) when they were 16 and 19. They remained married for over 82 years before Grandpa passed away. (Yes, 82 is correct - my mother-in-law was 81 years old with both parents still alive - she was born 11 months after her parents married. Do the math before jumping to any conclusions  Wink). When the extended family will support a young couple, it can work.

The rest of your message will lead to trouble, though I know you will refuse to believe me since you state very clearly that you have rejected the Church's teaching on purity - and my counsel comes with much less authority. I really hope that spiltteeth has enough sense to ignore your advice.

Kind of hard to accept that something is so evil when you came from it.

My parents only met because of the colonialism you hate so much.
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 06:18:13 PM »

Lots of good things come out of less than ideal circumstances. We do not scrap the ideal as a result.
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 06:19:11 PM »

I'm not married so I can't speak about "til marriage", but so far so good.  No one is busting the doors down though...
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 06:21:59 PM »

Lots of good things come out of less than ideal circumstances. We do not scrap the ideal as a result.
Well put!
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2012, 06:22:29 PM »

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 06:23:23 PM by JamesR » Logged

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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2012, 06:24:45 PM »

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

But sexual appetite is not insatiable.  In fact, it likely doesn't even need to be satisfied.
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2012, 06:26:49 PM »

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

But sexual appetite is not insatiable.  In fact, it likely doesn't even need to be satisfied.
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2012, 06:29:38 PM »

Yeah! And how can God expect us not to eat a jar of chocolate frosting for dinner when chocolate frosting tastes so good? (Sorry...it's my birthday in two days...I have cake on the brain.)

Ohhhh...that's right...the fasting and prayers and prostrations and all that... Wink

It's really difficult, JamesR. I know. I've been there. I've made all kinds of mistakes, and still do. But when you are serious about this life and the next, you work to try to control the passions. There is no short cut or easy answer. Just do as good as you can do, get up when you fall, and trust that God can do what you can't, if you call upon His mercy and His strength.

Remember, O Lord, Your tender mercies and Your lovingkindnesses,
For they are from of old.
Do not remember the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions;
According to Your mercy remember me,
For Your goodness’ sake, O Lord.

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And the humble He teaches His way.
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To such as keep His covenant and His testimonies.
For Your name’s sake, O Lord,
Pardon my iniquity, for it is great.


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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2012, 06:35:42 PM »

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

But sexual appetite is not insatiable.  In fact, it likely doesn't even need to be satisfied.
Come on Roll Eyes

Oh yeah, I suppose you are right.  After all, we don't have any examples of any saints that have struggled mightily and successfully against the sexual appetite.  My bad.
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2012, 06:41:30 PM »

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

But sexual appetite is not insatiable.  In fact, it likely doesn't even need to be satisfied.
Come on Roll Eyes

Oh yeah, I suppose you are right.  After all, we don't have any examples of any saints that have struggled mightily and successfully against the sexual appetite.  My bad.
Struggling mightily can  be fun, but I'll stop here. Wink
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2012, 06:59:22 PM »

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls?
If you get involved with one, you might be unfortunate enough to find out.
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2012, 07:34:48 PM »

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?
Its quite typical to argue against things that you want to do.

It is an approach many take. Instead of taking the Faith and adjusting our lives to it, we take our lives and try to adjust the Faith to it, justifying desperately in any way possible that we can, when, in reality, we just want to cave to our primal urge and be satisfied.

I haven't heard you argue against gluttony being a sin, or alcoholism, when there are predispositions for both of those. Welcome to the fallen world.
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« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2012, 07:48:32 PM »

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.
But does that make fornication right?
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« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2012, 07:52:45 PM »

[edit]
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« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2012, 07:58:55 PM »

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

For much of history, people got married around the time their sexual appetites got to that point. The biggest issue may be that people wait 10 years longer to marry than their bodies say they should. However, that's not an excuse for fornication. Appealing to circumstance is nothing less than an excuse, and neither is "everyone is doing it."

To the OP, I have and will continue to wait. I'm thankful to personally know many people who also make this obedience a priority.
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« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2012, 09:03:33 PM »

To be honest, most of the girls willing to wait until marriage are weird, hard to please and expect to be treated like royalty. Plus, I honestly cannot think of a good reason to wait. If anything, I find that waiting till marriage is a big gamble because there is a chance that your wife will not be 'skilled' in bed and therefore you will be stuck forever unsatisfied by your partner whereas if you fornicate, you can choose to marry someone whom you know is skilled in bed. Staying chaste is the hardest burden that God ever placed on us and I hate when the Church fathers try to lecture us about staying chaste when in reality they do not understand at all because back in their time people could get married and have sex at a really young age whereas now we cannot get married until we are like in our 20s because of the lousy career-college system in our country. I'm chaste from fornication but I really hate it and doubt I will be able to hold onto it forever. Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls or girls who are not virgins? You men act as if you deserve a virgin or as if you are better than them because you are chaste. Fornication is not wrong. If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.
JamesR, your point about teenage marriage actually makes some sense. This will explain the point more fully. My wife's grandparents married (in 1911) when they were 16 and 19. They remained married for over 82 years before Grandpa passed away. (Yes, 82 is correct - my mother-in-law was 81 years old with both parents still alive - she was born 11 months after her parents married. Do the math before jumping to any conclusions  Wink). When the extended family will support a young couple, it can work.

The rest of your message will lead to trouble, though I know you will refuse to believe me since you state very clearly that you have rejected the Church's teaching on purity - and my counsel comes with much less authority. I really hope that spiltteeth has enough sense to ignore your advice.

Kind of hard to accept that something is so evil when you came from it.
JamesR, my biological mother gave birth to seven children from three different fathers and was married to none of them. My biological father was married to another woman. What they did was just plain wrong. Many people were badly hurt by all those affairs.

"Nature, Mr. Allnut, is what we are put in this world to rise above." (In context, Rose Sayer was referring to fallen human nature as demonstrated in Charlie's habitual drinking.) The quote, BTW, is from one of my favourite movies.

Yes, God does work with us fallen creatures, but shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? (Read Romans 6 for the answer.)

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« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2012, 09:05:06 PM »

If you get involved with one, you might be unfortunate enough to find out.
LOL exactly.
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« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2012, 09:06:50 PM »

I just do not get it guys. Sure I can fast, pray and do all of these hard things to suppress my sexual appetite like the Saints have, but that ignores the central question of why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires? Sure I can hear all of this stuff about being born into a 'fallen world' but why should I have to suffer the consequences of something my ancestors did? Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us? Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 09:08:27 PM by JamesR » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2012, 09:09:08 PM »

I just do not get it guys. Sure I can fast, pray and do all of these hard things to suppress my sexual appetite like the Saints have, but that ignores the central question of why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires? Sure I can hear all of this stuff about being born into a 'fallen world' but why should I have to suffer the consequences of something my ancestors did? Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us? Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.
Impossible?

Well yeah we are sexual beings but it has to have context. If you can learn anything from my stupidity it would be sex would be much better in a marriage.
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« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2012, 09:40:13 PM »

I just do not get it guys. Sure I can fast, pray and do all of these hard things to suppress my sexual appetite like the Saints have, but that ignores the central question of why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires?

Because the desires in and of themselves are not wrong, but as Achronos rightly points out, they need to be exercised responsibly and in the right context (marriage). It's just like how God gives us an appetite to crave food, which is often quite enjoyable to eat. But if we do not control this impulse (not eating 500 "meals" a day or whatever), we'll get into trouble. Again, the impulse itself is good (if we never had an appetite, we'd wind up with all kinds of health problems from not getting the necessary nutrients to live), but the way we express it can be bad if we allow it to run rampant in our lives with no attempt to control it.


Quote
Sure I can hear all of this stuff about being born into a 'fallen world' but why should I have to suffer the consequences of something my ancestors did?


Everyone who is born into this world is born into circumstances beyond their control. If you consider it "suffering" that you can't control the world, I don't know what to say. Prayer should help you overcome this desire to control everything.

Quote
Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us?


(1) God doesn't force us to do anything
(2) Remember the cross

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Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death,


Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but this strikes me as awfully nonchalant about the single greatest act in the history of...everything.

Quote
but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Maybe you should post less and pray more.

Quote
Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

God allows many things we can't understand. I lost my mother when I was younger than you are, and she's been gone for about as long as you've been alive. I can say now that I am a bit older and maybe had more experience in life in general that while I'll never stop missing her and wishing she were here, there were also many things I learned through that experience that I couldn't have learned otherwise. And it was ultimately what was best for her, as she wasn't living much of a life before that, wasting away from cancer for 18 months in various emergency rooms and hospitals. But to get to that point, I had to stop thinking so much about myself and how this horrible set of circumstances had befallen ME, and how could God allow this, and all that. Maturity is hard. Really, really hard.
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« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2012, 10:00:02 PM »

*cough* Original Sin *cough*
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« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2012, 11:47:11 PM »

Pretty sweet reading this thread and then the one on JamesR wanting, nay expecting, to see the Uncreated Light.  Tongue
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« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2012, 12:06:27 AM »

What the heck James? God didn't "create you" that way. He doesn't create us with overwhelming sexual desires, he doesn't create us to "naturally" lust.

All of it is a result of our fall. Our bodies have begun to dictate the actions and direction of our souls. God doesn't create you with these desires, you are born with them because you are a part of the fallen human race.

We don't just say "I can shoot heroine just because I have a insatiable desire to, and I was born addicted."

Also, a blessing may come from an evil, but that doesn't make the evil right.
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« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2012, 12:10:33 AM »

Pretty sweet reading this thread and then the one on JamesR wanting, nay expecting, to see the Uncreated Light.  Tongue
Lol
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« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2012, 12:11:29 AM »

I just do not get it guys. Sure I can fast, pray and do all of these hard things to suppress my sexual appetite like the Saints have, but that ignores the central question of why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires? Sure I can hear all of this stuff about being born into a 'fallen world' but why should I have to suffer the consequences of something my ancestors did? Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us? Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
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« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2012, 12:21:49 AM »

A good and relevant quote from St Theophan the Recluse:

"I shall repeat again: Maintain the conviction that our disorderliness is not natural to us, and do not listen to those who say, 'It is no use talking about it, because that is just how we are made, and you cannot do anything about it,' That is not how we are made, and if we undertake to cure ourselves, then we will be able to do something about it. - St Theophan the Recluse from The Spiritual Life
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« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2012, 12:28:20 AM »

why I should have to do all of that in the first place when God is the one who designed my body and allowed me to be born with all of these desires?
Don't blame God. Blame the human forces at be that keep you from feasibly marrying young.
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« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2012, 12:28:50 AM »

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow.
Time to go back to trying to read Romans.
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« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2012, 12:31:07 AM »

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow.
Time to go back to trying to read Romans.

Particularly Romans 9.  Cheesy
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« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2012, 12:49:33 AM »

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow.

You can't drink the cup that Jesus drank from?  Very, very few of us can.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

Maybe that's the armor you need to protect yourself from fornication.  You have to take the first step.
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« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2012, 01:30:59 AM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?
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« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2012, 01:31:51 AM »

*cough* Original Sin *cough*

Is Western! Is outrage!
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« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2012, 01:54:01 AM »

Sadly I didn't, and I wish I did, because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special, considering we...yeah anyway, without getting graphic, I regret it. So stay celibate till marriage.
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« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2012, 03:16:38 AM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."
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« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2012, 03:55:51 AM »

re: the title of this thread, I know some people who have, and many, many more who likely have.  Most people I know don’t really advertise either way – and I would be wary of people who advertise their sexual lives or lack thereof.   To find such a member of the oppose sex, my own practical advice would just be to hang around and meet people.   

IMO, sex is a statement of permanent love between the two people, with God, and with the children that frequent sex can produce.   If we take these out of the equation – especially the first three – then we have serious problems.   

Also, whether one has/hasn’t had sex before IMO is not as important as what one thinks right now (i.e. what’s in one’s heart, to say nothing of repentance, means a lot), as well as one’s attempt to live it (i.e. being chaste because you have no libido is easy.   Being chaste – both in body and in your heart - while being really horny is to be a witness)

Besides, what's wrong with promiscuous girls?

If you get involved with one, you might be unfortunate enough to find out.

"Amen" to that.  A truly promiscuous person (not just someone who’s had sex outside of marriage, but one who actively goes about looking for frequent sex with different people) uses sex and their sexual partners as toys.  In the end, they don’t care at all about either beyond their own pleasure.   They also don’t really care about their health, for that matter.  Ick!   


Instead of forcing us to take the hard path by fasting and doing all of that aforementioned stuff, why don't God take responsibility for His creations and do something for us? Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow. Maybe I don't want to accept the honor of being called to become a God and would rather stay an animal.

Maybe if He didn't allow my mother to be abused and live her life without a male role model (fatherless) then she would not have fornicated...

"Doing something for us" or "making it easy" would be an indication that he doesn't want us to participate with him in something, i.e. goodness, love for your spouse, or in creation of new humans.  It would also imply that we're just God's toys, and/or that sex is some sort of unimportant automatic task like eating or resting or some such. 

I am also very sorry that your mother's story has been so difficult.   But again, we're not God's pets or toys.  He respects our choices, to include our sinfulness, and often does not save us from the consequence of our sins, nor does he necessarily "save" the innocent from the consequences of others' sin.   This is why sin can be so horrible - it has consequences for you and can often have horrible consequences for other people, a cycle that can perpetuate itself.   Salvation is the opposite - it is our invitation to participate with God and break such cycles.   From a pastoral perspective -looking out for the good of the people of the church - abuse is always wrong and needs to be directly, unequivocally condemned.  Fornication is also wrong it is arguably "not as bad", and how to deal with it for the good of the person can vary - direct unequivocal condemnation in some cases is not the best way.  Rather, working with people slowly and patiently is often better.   

Again, IMO, from salvation's perspective what happens before - to you, to me, to anyone - is not as important as what is done today.
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« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2012, 03:58:16 AM »

because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special...

You must've accidentally edited out the part where you wrote that you also regret it because it's explicitly forbidden by Church teachings.   police
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« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2012, 02:18:54 PM »

For much of history, people got married around the time their sexual appetites got to that point. The biggest issue may be that people wait 10 years longer to marry than their bodies say they should.

It depends on what you mean by "history." In most civilized contexts, including ancient China, Egypt, Greece, Rome, Britain -- basically, almost any place on Earth during periods where there was some degree of stable government, from ancient times through the medieval period -- it was very unusual for men to get married before the age of 20 and more typical for them to marry in their late twenties or even early 30s. The age for women varied, but it was typically well after the beginning of puberty and, in many areas, reserved for those in the late teens or even early twenties. Rich/noble people tended to marry on the earlier side of the spectrum; normal people on the later.
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« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2012, 02:25:44 PM »

because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special...

You must've accidentally edited out the part where you wrote that you also regret it because it's explicitly forbidden by Church teachings.   police
I think James wants an answer outside the Church Wink
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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2012, 02:29:38 PM »

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

Balaam's ass and all that.

Best reply yet.
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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2012, 02:33:56 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
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« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2012, 02:40:28 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.
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« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2012, 02:41:41 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

Freud is brilliant.

Jung is a goof.

And I'll leave it at that.
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« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2012, 02:43:55 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

 For the most part, yes.  Yet I have found his studies on personalities interesting.  Particularly Briggs-Myers usage of Jung's 'personality type' studies.  For the record, I identify with ISFJ type.  Smiley
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« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2012, 02:45:41 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

Freud is brilliant.

Jung is a goof.

And I'll leave it at that.

You're in a very small circle, my friend.
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« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2012, 02:47:05 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

 For the most part, yes.  Yet I have found his studies on personalities interesting.  Particularly Briggs-Myers usage of Jung's 'personality type' studies.  For the record, I identify with ISFJ type.  Smiley

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.

They tell you what you think about yourself, which is why most people overscore on the less commonly distributed but more highly regarded characteristics.

The most important thing I get from your score is that you probably pretty darn honest as you chose one of the most boring / common combos.

Good for you.

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« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2012, 02:48:03 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

You should read about the sorta husband good ol' Jung was.

Nut job.

Freud made a terrible decision passing his mantle on, so to speak, to him.

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.
There some stuff I like of Jung but a few things he gets weird. Never liked Freud when I studied him.

Freud is brilliant.

Jung is a goof.

And I'll leave it at that.

You're in a very small circle, my friend.

Actually I am not. If you look at who has had the most most impact on thought Freud easily trumps Jung from the common parlance to academia.
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« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2012, 02:52:13 PM »

Your big three:

Nietzsche, Marx, Freud.

Can't imagine our world without them. And it certainly better for them.

Each has some interesting things to say about sex and marriage. In fact, you probably know some of the quotes without knowing their origin. Who knows?

Too bad each gets read too often by eyes too young to really appreciate them.

Oh well.
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« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2012, 02:57:32 PM »

I too, have a conundrum: in many books I read, masturbation was explained as "sin with the devil". Now, was I thinking, isn't it better to sin with an actual human?

The Fathers knew the greater devil.

In the words of Carl Jung:

"A particularly beautiful woman is a source of terror. As a rule, a beautiful woman is a terrible disappointment."

Thankfully, no one takes him seriously outside newage books stores.

 For the most part, yes.  Yet I have found his studies on personalities interesting.  Particularly Briggs-Myers usage of Jung's 'personality type' studies.  For the record, I identify with ISFJ type.  Smiley

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.

They tell you what you think about yourself, which is why most people overscore on the less commonly distributed but more highly regarded characteristics.

The most important thing I get from your score is that you probably pretty darn honest as you chose one of the most boring / common combos.

Good for you.



Yup, I'm country-boy vanilla. 
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« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2012, 03:00:51 PM »

Your big three:

Nietzsche, Marx, Freud.

Can't imagine our world without them. And it certainly better for them.

Each has some interesting things to say about sex and marriage. In fact, you probably know some of the quotes without knowing their origin. Who knows?

Too bad each gets read too often by eyes too young to really appreciate them.

Oh well.

I disagree with your assesment.  Instead of lauding these 'big three', I advocate studying Scripture and Patristics first for in them you will find a thorough understanding of the human condition far superior.
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« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2012, 04:44:14 PM »

Sure, He became incarnate and defeated death, but that doesn't change the fact that He has still given us an impossible ethical code to follow.
Time to go back to trying to read Romans.

+ 500 million.

James, seriously, do it. A healthy understanding of Romans will change your whole outlook on faith.
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« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2012, 04:47:55 PM »

Myers-Briggs is nonsense
Thank you.

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.
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« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2012, 04:49:52 PM »

because now when my fiancee and I have our wedding night it won't be as special...

You must've accidentally edited out the part where you wrote that you also regret it because it's explicitly forbidden by Church teachings.   police

Obvious reason is obvious. ;P
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« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2012, 04:50:52 PM »

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

That is why God looks down on Fornication.
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« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2012, 04:55:44 PM »

Myers-Briggs is nonsense
Thank you.

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

I scored a straight 100.  You're just jealous.

As for the OP - I have heard strange stories from the ancient past of such things taking place in the time of the Nephilim...
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« Reply #62 on: September 04, 2012, 05:04:28 PM »

As for the OP - I have heard strange stories from the ancient past of such things taking place in the time of the Nephilim...

James is a giant hybrid between the sons of the Elohim and human concubines?

No wonder he has so much lady drama.  Wink
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« Reply #63 on: September 04, 2012, 05:10:43 PM »

When I read of James' fantasies, I cannot help but think of a Chihuahua and a German Shepherd that I saw once.  The Chihuahua was going to town on the Shepherd's leg, and the Shepherd had a most confused look on her face.
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« Reply #64 on: September 04, 2012, 05:16:07 PM »

If my mom hadn't fornicated then I wouldn't be here.

That is why God looks down on Fornication.
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« Reply #65 on: September 04, 2012, 05:32:24 PM »

Your big three:

Nietzsche, Marx, Freud.

Can't imagine our world without them. And it certainly better for them.

Each has some interesting things to say about sex and marriage. In fact, you probably know some of the quotes without knowing their origin. Who knows?

Too bad each gets read too often by eyes too young to really appreciate them.

Oh well.


If only Lenin had read Marx when he was a little older. There wouldn't have been so many New Martyrs and Confessors if he had just appreciated Marx when he brain was fully developed.
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« Reply #66 on: September 04, 2012, 06:08:03 PM »

Quote from: orthonorm

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.


Is that the one they had in the beginning of 'Blade Runner'?
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« Reply #67 on: September 04, 2012, 06:34:24 PM »

Quote from: orthonorm

Myers-Briggs is nonsense in the end like most popular personality tests.


Is that the one they had in the beginning of 'Blade Runner'?
No that's the Voight Kampf test. Completely different. Are you a replicant biro!?
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« Reply #68 on: September 04, 2012, 06:41:07 PM »

Nah, my eyes don't have a stripe in them.  Wink
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« Reply #69 on: September 04, 2012, 07:11:09 PM »

Nah, my eyes don't have a stripe in them.  Wink

How can it not know what it is? Wink
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« Reply #70 on: September 04, 2012, 11:40:30 PM »

Myers-Briggs is nonsense
Thank you.

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?
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« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2012, 09:03:24 AM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.
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« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2012, 12:26:57 PM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

 I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?
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« Reply #73 on: September 05, 2012, 12:30:08 PM »

Why do you believe it's nonsense?
Because it doesn't tell you anything you don't already know.
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« Reply #74 on: September 05, 2012, 12:30:34 PM »

I was also aware of many companies using it
HR cults do a lot of things, Gabe.
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« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2012, 12:38:29 PM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

 I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. Companies like to do this sorta thing cause they get sold on it by those who hawk their wares cause it seems to boost morale a bit, much like some motivational speakers (revival tent preacher), "team building" BS, etc.

Of course every so many years they change the test so people can get the narcissistic joy of taking some tool that has zero help in diagnosing much of anything especially anything that might actually point toward psychological problems.

MB
Enneagram
Strength Finder
etc.

Tell us about yourself in some straight forward fashion and will give you some jargon about how to talk more about yourself.

E/INT/FP.

People over score on the N/P according to the very documentation which started this whole mess would suggest exists in the world.

Know thyself in an hour or less.

Kind criticism of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Validity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability
 
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« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2012, 12:39:49 PM »

Why do you believe it's nonsense?
Because it doesn't tell you anything you don't already know.
I disagree, but you described it as 'nonsense'.  Your reply doesn't match your sentiments.  And calling Human Resources 'cults' demonstrates a lack of understanding of what HR does.  It's also just plain weird.  
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« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2012, 12:46:42 PM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

 I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. Companies like to do this sorta thing cause they get sold on it by those who hawk their wares cause it seems to boost morale a bit, much like some motivational speakers (revival tent preacher), "team building" BS, etc.

Of course every so many years they change the test so people can get the narcissistic joy of taking some tool that has zero help in diagnosing much of anything especially anything that might actually point toward psychological problems.

MB
Enneagram
Strength Finder
etc.

Tell us about yourself in some straight forward fashion and will give you some jargon about how to talk more about yourself.

E/INT/FP.

People over score on the N/P according to the very documentation which started this whole mess would suggest exists in the world.

Know thyself in an hour or less.

Kind criticism of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Validity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability
 

Friend, what I really wish you would concentrate on is things you actually know about.  I know Psychologists (both PhD.s and Psych.D.s) who administer the MB.  I'm inpressed that you can find a Wiki article so quickly, but less impressed with your actual knowledge.  For example, are you now the arbiter of what is and isn't a 'legitimate' Psychologist?  Seems like you just like to hear yourself talk.  I'm done with you.
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« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2012, 12:49:45 PM »

If someone brings up their score in conversation, I normally seek to end the conversation.

Why does it bother you so much?  Why do you believe it's nonsense?

When someone dismisses the MB as nonsense, I usually dismiss them as an idiot.  Like the KAI, it is a useful tool, and I have seen what happens when it is ignored. But like any tool, it cannot be used exclusively and works best when it is part of a battery of tests along with personal observation.  BTW - I scored an INTJ on the test administered by my company.  Knowing this, and some of the other things that I learned during testing, really helped me with my job.

 I was thinking the same things re: using the MBTI as a helpful tool.  I was also aware of many companies using it which is why I was interested in why Nicholas dismisses it.  I'm still waiting for his reply, and I'd also like to add a question:  Nicholas, are you in Human Resources or a Psychologist?

No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. Companies like to do this sorta thing cause they get sold on it by those who hawk their wares cause it seems to boost morale a bit, much like some motivational speakers (revival tent preacher), "team building" BS, etc.

Of course every so many years they change the test so people can get the narcissistic joy of taking some tool that has zero help in diagnosing much of anything especially anything that might actually point toward psychological problems.

MB
Enneagram
Strength Finder
etc.

Tell us about yourself in some straight forward fashion and will give you some jargon about how to talk more about yourself.

E/INT/FP.

People over score on the N/P according to the very documentation which started this whole mess would suggest exists in the world.

Know thyself in an hour or less.

Kind criticism of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Validity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator#Reliability
 

Friend, what I really wish you would concentrate on is things you actually know about.  I know Psychologists (both PhD.s and Psych.D.s) who administer the MB.  I'm inpressed that you can find a Wiki article so quickly, but less impressed with your actual knowledge.  For example, are you now the arbiter of what is and isn't a 'legitimate' Psychologist?  Seems like you just like to hear yourself talk.

Yes I am.

If they are giving an MB, they are a quack, unless it is for a laugh, hopefully among friends and not at their clients expense.
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« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2012, 12:52:13 PM »

I choose wikipedia due to its credibility and that fact it is sources it claims well in that article. The criticism (the fact there needs to be some is sad) is easily found.

Enjoy your fortune cookie.

The fact you buy into this is weird.

As useful as getting your palm read by a decent cold / warm reader. Actually, less, that reader if not a charlatan might actually give you something useful for your time.

/finished
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« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2012, 01:15:50 PM »

I've honestly decided to no longer take people seriously when they "disprove" or discredit something. If anyone does a credible and reliable study out there, or uses a proven and credible method. There is inevitably going to be someone (or even a group) who disagrees for one reason or another and comes up with a conflicting study that supposedly discredits whatever they want to discredit.

If someone disagrees with something, inevitably they are going to find proof that what they disagree with is actually wrong.

One study may suggest that low, but regular levels of consumption of red wine can help prolong one's life. Another study would come forward "disproving" that idea, suggesting the absolute opposite.

There are some people out there who supposedly have found proof that the Earth is actually young, and that mankind & dinosaurs co-existed. There are others who have supposedly found proof that global warming doesn't actually exist, or that mankind isn't contributing to it.

I think it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Or its like many archeologists. If an archeologist wants to find Atlantis, and looks for it, he is inevitably going to "find" it. Like those looking for the Holy Grail or some other holy object. They look for it, and when they find something from that time period, they fit it into their narrative. Many will search for a female goddess in ancient Judaism and so will look at what they think are ancient Jewish synagogues or Hebrew places of worship and will move it's contents around to fit where they think they should go, and therefore create their own narrative, their own history.

I don't know anything about what you guys are talking about (that is, the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator), but I've simply come to the point where I just simply don't care about what dissenters have "proven" unless it is actually something that it is actually proven and it can be proven that most experts (whether they be scientists, historians, psychologists etc...) actually accept the dissenting point of view.

Instead of just linking to Wikipedia, I would suggest actually citing reliable and majority sources (that are peer-reviewed) on the subject. As well as showing study-based evidence that proves the majority of experts accept the point you are making.
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« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2012, 01:21:27 PM »

Why do you believe it's nonsense?
Because it doesn't tell you anything you don't already know.

That is BS, unless you are one of those that thinks you know everything.
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« Reply #82 on: September 05, 2012, 01:28:37 PM »


No legitimate psychologist uses a MB. 

More BS.  Not only do major companies use it (administered by psycologists), but the military does, too.  In fact, the psychologist that I dealt with spent years working with the Air Force using the MB as a part of the program.  And believe me, it is not done to "boost morale".  Some of these sessions were anything but cheerful rah rah sessions.  But then again, you have pretty much proved to me that you know nothing about this particular subject, so I can see further discussion about this with you will provide little useful information.
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« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2012, 02:35:06 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Freud is is a cliched brilliant.

Jung is a goof. genius

And I'll leave it at that.

Fixed that for ya Wink
How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

For much of history, people got married around the time their sexual appetites got to that point. The biggest issue may be that people wait 10 years longer to marry than their bodies say they should. However, that's not an excuse for fornication. Appealing to circumstance is nothing less than an excuse, and neither is "everyone is doing it."

To the OP, I have and will continue to wait. I'm thankful to personally know many people who also make this obedience a priority.

We read of plenty of folks in the time of the Fathers marrying in their late 20s for the same reasons people wait to get married today, financial, political, and socio-cultural aspects of the Roman Empire.  It is not surprising as we live in the New Rome that we deal with the parallel issues.  In other words, we can't necessarily blame some kind of societal gap which conflicts with our biology, because in other societies we've had the same situation.  Just because people are sexually driven at 15, doesn't necessarily imply these always do or even should get married.  Some people get married young, some do not.  Some people can wait until marriage to cool their sexual appetites, some can not.  It is important for us to understand two things about this (a) overcoming our carnal appetites be they for food, wrath, or sex, can only happen in synergy with God and not by our own force of will and (b) when we inevitably fail at these ideals (which we all will do in some way or another) this is precisely why Confession has been instituted for Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2012, 03:08:24 PM »

OK, I admit I was broad in my comment about marriage age. I was mostly thinking of the ancient Jews (and probably others) who tended to get married in their younger teens. That may have been more culturally-specific than I realized.

But I think we all agree that the calling to a high standard of conduct remains, and fornication is never acceptable, regardless of the marriage age. Waiting until marriage to have sex is totally possible if it's a high enough priority in one's life. Millions and millions of people manage it.
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« Reply #85 on: September 05, 2012, 03:18:13 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

OK, I admit I was broad in my comment about marriage age. I was mostly thinking of the ancient Jews (and probably others) who tended to get married in their younger teens. That may have been more culturally-specific than I realized.

But I think we all agree that the calling to a high standard of conduct remains, and fornication is never acceptable, regardless of the marriage age.

Many Christian cultures through out history and today have a period of "extended engagment" where folks essentially look the other way about sexual activity and if pregnancy results it is expected the young couple gets married.  Divorce is a social institution as much as an individual one.  We as a society or culture or social-support group accept and embrace divorce rather than reconciliation, we acquiesce to it rather then pushing and supporting reconciling.  This is how promiscuity and fornication have become the normal sexuality of the modern world, because we don't enforce the societal relationships and expectations of marriage in the first place! Historically, sexual expression has always been a shade of gray, and marriage has always been an ideal, however it was one which more often was supported rather then scoffed or neglected.  The entire family and indeed must support marriage for it to work.  We have to think of divorce as almost akin to spiritual suicide and work from them.  Its not about being over judgmental or harsh, rather the opposite, to be reconciling, embracing, supportive, empathetic to the cause of marriage.  We have to support our marriages, encourage our marriages, love our married folks, not just shrug our shoulders and accept divorce as the new marriage.  Before, kids could be allowed to have these extended engagements because society as a whole would hold them to the expectation of getting married rather today, we still allow kids to form the same relationships we always have for thousands of years, rather, we don't expect marriage any long  Undecided

Above all else, we need to promote Sacramental Marriage. Lets be honest, why is marriage failing in America? Its not Sacramental and so is not blessed by God's Grace.  Our Protestant and secular marriages are largely imaginary in the eyes of God, so what can we expect? We are trying to force ourselves into marriages which are not sanctified, and it is no wonder these fail time and time again. ALL marriage will inherently fail if solely by human efforts, this is why God sent us the Mystery of Holy Matrimony so that by His Grace He can keep us together when things get hard to bear.  In the 1950s a large portion of marriages were at the least Lutheran and hence pseudo-Sacramental, but the proof is in the pudding. Look how many of these marriages have lasted 50-60 years? How many of our imaginary, non-Sacramental marriages since have lasted that duration? Its embarrassing really.  We as Orthodox need to promote and encourage at every social level the concept and blessing of Sacramental Marriage, which can save our society and our fellow brothers and sisters from burning in lust.  Marriage sanctified sexuality, it converts lust into love.  Selfish seeking of pleasure becomes the desire to spiritually fulfill the needs of the other.  Sex outside of this marriage has realistically devolved into masturbation with a partner Sad

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2012, 03:43:27 PM »

Good stuff there, habte.
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« Reply #87 on: September 05, 2012, 03:45:03 PM »

I was listening to an Orthodox priest talking about how people in our faith did marry much younger way back when and that we need to provide people with community resources to maintain chastity as now the task largely falls on the individual. I asked for some Orthodox resources because our Catholic brethren seem to have a slew of resources - groups, forums, meetings, clubs etc to deal with chastity.
Also I've heard how 'courting' is starting to make a comeback, where both families are involved, and the courtship takes place within a more communal atmosphere. It sounds great, part of the idea is that the family makes sure you're not passing yourself off as someone you're not. It's hard to do today because so many families are broken up, but I don't know, perhaps some Orthodox entrepreneur will start an internet courting service... 
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« Reply #88 on: September 05, 2012, 03:52:21 PM »

I was listening to an Orthodox priest talking about how people in our faith did marry much younger way back when and that we need to provide people with community resources to maintain chastity as now the task largely falls on the individual. I asked for some Orthodox resources because our Catholic brethren seem to have a slew of resources - groups, forums, meetings, clubs etc to deal with chastity.

Did he provide any? What are some of the Catholic resources you found?
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« Reply #89 on: September 05, 2012, 03:56:34 PM »

This lightside religious stuff seems very confusing and burdensome. The dark side seems much more appealing right now. No more judgment or condemnation, no more guilt or impossible ethical code to follow. Just absolute freedom and indulgence in my passions--along with the ability to be accepting of everyone opposed to judging them or telling them how they ought to behave like religion does. I highly sympathize with Anakin Skywalker's fall to the darkside.

Sorry I've been watching too much Star Wars
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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« Reply #90 on: September 05, 2012, 04:05:50 PM »

This lightside religious stuff seems very confusing and burdensome. The dark side seems much more appealing right now. No more judgment or condemnation, no more guilt or impossible ethical code to follow. Just absolute freedom and indulgence in my passions--along with the ability to be accepting of everyone opposed to judging them or telling them how they ought to behave like religion does. I highly sympathize with Anakin Skywalker's fall to the darkside.

Sorry I've been watching too much Star Wars

Yeah...and Anakin led a blissful life after his appetitive passions drove him to kill his wife and help Palpatine enslave a million worlds.

The Jedi are about bringing their passions under submission. A lot like Orthodoxy actually, except without lightsabers and midichlorians.

We do have the Holy Mysteries, though. Nothing is impossible for Christ who gives us strength.
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« Reply #91 on: September 05, 2012, 04:09:21 PM »

I've heard how 'courting' is starting to make a comeback, where both families are involved, and the courtship takes place within a more communal atmosphere.

I agree with this. It was the way of things for a long time before this infernal dating concept arose. LARPing as married couples, full of false romanticism, for 10 or 15 years before actually getting married—what could go wrong?
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« Reply #92 on: September 05, 2012, 04:24:02 PM »

This lightside religious stuff seems very confusing and burdensome. The dark side seems much more appealing right now. No more judgment or condemnation, no more guilt or impossible ethical code to follow. Just absolute freedom and indulgence in my passions--along with the ability to be accepting of everyone opposed to judging them or telling them how they ought to behave like religion does. I highly sympathize with Anakin Skywalker's fall to the darkside.

Sorry I've been watching too much Star Wars

Yeah...and Anakin led a blissful life after his appetitive passions drove him to kill his wife and help Palpatine enslave a million worlds.

The Jedi are about bringing their passions under submission. A lot like Orthodoxy actually, except without lightsabers and midichlorians.

We do have the Holy Mysteries, though. Nothing is impossible for Christ who gives us strength.

We don't need lightsabers and midichlorians.  We have Cossack sabres and medium tanks.  God save Vladimir Putin!  Lighthouse of Orthodoxy!
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« Reply #93 on: September 05, 2012, 04:25:36 PM »

I've heard how 'courting' is starting to make a comeback, where both families are involved, and the courtship takes place within a more communal atmosphere.

I agree with this. It was the way of things for a long time before this infernal dating concept arose. LARPing as married couples, full of false romanticism, for 10 or 15 years before actually getting married—what could go wrong?

What's wrong with dating and marriage 2.0?  Is it really that wrong for one person to use another as a fashion accessory?
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« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2012, 04:34:23 PM »

Except plenty of people date for only 1-2 years and don't larp as married couples.
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« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2012, 07:54:57 PM »

When I "came to Christ" and was "born again" back in 1987, I committed to the Lord that I would be sexually pure with whomever He brought into my life. I met my the woman I would end up marrying about a year later. She was a virgin and was one still when we got married. Nothing other than kissing up to that point. I never let it get too intense.

Married 23 years now and I'm more crazy in love with her than ever.

It's possible. I knew what I was saying no to and it was worth the wait!!
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« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2012, 08:54:39 PM »

Except plenty of people date for only 1-2 years and don't larp as married couples.

I have observed a fair amount of dating in my life. Regardless of length of time, a majority of dating is essentially heavily romanticized LARPing as married, except perhaps for living in the same house.

That's just my opinion, but I do think dating instills a lot of potentially dangerous ideas and expectations of what marriage is. Romance is particularly dangerous, and the best marriage counselors make some effort to downplay romance and take off the blinders that these overly emotional times put on. Or if they go all the way (in more ways than one), there is no significant difference between marriage and dating, which is dangerous in its own way.
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« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2012, 09:32:11 PM »

Except plenty of people date for only 1-2 years and don't larp as married couples.

I have observed a fair amount of dating in my life. Regardless of length of time, a majority of dating is essentially heavily romanticized LARPing as married, except perhaps for living in the same house.

That's just my opinion, but I do think dating instills a lot of potentially dangerous ideas and expectations of what marriage is. Romance is particularly dangerous, and the best marriage counselors make some effort to downplay romance and take off the blinders that these overly emotional times put on. Or if they go all the way (in more ways than one), there is no significant difference between marriage and dating, which is dangerous in its own way.

Can you explain in what ways dating is too similar to marriage?
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« Reply #98 on: September 06, 2012, 01:50:40 PM »

I would love to find a girl willing to wait; but these days in Ny they don't seem to exist. I fear i may never find anyone. Also does anyone know of any resourses or practical advice on remaining chaste?  Thank you.

If 2nd virginity counts, here i am waiting Smiley
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« Reply #99 on: September 06, 2012, 03:38:25 PM »

I'm an INFJ.  Less than 1% of the world's population is an INFJ.  No wonder I'm such a weirdo. 
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« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2012, 03:42:36 PM »

I'm an INFJ.  Less than 1% of the world's population is an INFJ.  No wonder I'm such a weirdo. 
Hey me too bro. If both of us are weird what does that say about us being Orthodox? lol
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« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2012, 03:44:39 PM »

ISFJ.

Any ISFJs here ?  Grin
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« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2012, 07:01:50 PM »

I had to look those things up. I thought we were still talking about virginity statuses, given the topic..."What the...? How many categories can there possibly be?!" Huh Embarrassed
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« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2012, 09:40:36 PM »

ISFJ.

Any ISFJs here ?  Grin

ISTJ, but close to the centre point on the T/F scale.

As to the other, still waiting...
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« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2012, 10:17:01 PM »

This lightside religious stuff seems very confusing and burdensome. The dark side seems much more appealing right now. No more judgment or condemnation, no more guilt or impossible ethical code to follow. Just absolute freedom and indulgence in my passions--along with the ability to be accepting of everyone opposed to judging them or telling them how they ought to behave like religion does. I highly sympathize with Anakin Skywalker's fall to the darkside.

Sorry I've been watching too much Star Wars

Just be careful you don't become a slave to your passions, therefore giving up your newfound "freedom".

And seriously, look up Grey Jedi.
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« Reply #105 on: September 07, 2012, 12:19:08 AM »

This lightside religious stuff seems very confusing and burdensome. The dark side seems much more appealing right now. No more judgment or condemnation, no more guilt or impossible ethical code to follow. Just absolute freedom and indulgence in my passions--along with the ability to be accepting of everyone opposed to judging them or telling them how they ought to behave like religion does. I highly sympathize with Anakin Skywalker's fall to the darkside.

Sorry I've been watching too much Star Wars
Who predicted this on Tikhon's thread?  Cry
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« Reply #106 on: September 07, 2012, 12:22:22 AM »

I had to look those things up. I thought we were still talking about virginity statuses, given the topic..."What the...? How many categories can there possibly be?!" Huh Embarrassed

I took a MB test once.  The shrink said WTF.  Aren't most of these classifications four letters?
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« Reply #107 on: September 07, 2012, 12:42:17 AM »

I'm an INFJ.  Less than 1% of the world's population is an INFJ.  No wonder I'm such a weirdo. 
Hey me too bro. If both of us are weird what does that say about us being Orthodox? lol

Thirded.
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« Reply #108 on: September 07, 2012, 12:51:36 AM »

So far, so good. I saw a poster at my old college that said that one in five people gets and STD. I remember thinking with disgust that this is my dating pool.  There is a reason to keep things zipped. Maybe if you get to talking with someone about it, they might gradually start to see that maybe there is value to waiting, like emotional protection in the event of a breakup, or respect for the person and valuing them before pleasure, or growth of other kinds of intimacy first so that the relationship truly deepens further...  I have dated someone who didn't wait and wasn't in a strong position about it, but recognized that God's way was better for us.  I was ok with that because when we both agreed on what to aim for, we could better aim ourselves in the same direction as a couple. We ended up splitting up for other reasons though.
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« Reply #109 on: September 07, 2012, 12:53:17 AM »

I'm an INFJ.  Less than 1% of the world's population is an INFJ.  No wonder I'm such a weirdo. 
Hey me too bro. If both of us are weird what does that say about us being Orthodox? lol

Thirded.
ESF P or J.

Interesting that MB results are the new four-letter-words. I should use them more at work. Wink
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« Reply #110 on: September 07, 2012, 01:10:54 AM »

So far, so good. I saw a poster at my old college that said that one in five people gets and STD. I remember thinking with disgust that this is my dating pool.  There is a reason to keep things zipped. Maybe if you get to talking with someone about it, they might gradually start to see that maybe there is value to waiting, like emotional protection in the event of a breakup, or respect for the person and valuing them before pleasure, or growth of other kinds of intimacy first so that the relationship truly deepens further...  I have dated someone who didn't wait and wasn't in a strong position about it, but recognized that God's way was better for us.  I was ok with that because when we both agreed on what to aim for, we could better aim ourselves in the same direction as a couple. We ended up splitting up for other reasons though.

You are smarter than whoever you marry probably deserves.
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« Reply #111 on: September 07, 2012, 01:56:20 AM »

So far, so good. I saw a poster at my old college that said that one in five people gets and STD. I remember thinking with disgust that this is my dating pool.  There is a reason to keep things zipped. Maybe if you get to talking with someone about it, they might gradually start to see that maybe there is value to waiting, like emotional protection in the event of a breakup, or respect for the person and valuing them before pleasure, or growth of other kinds of intimacy first so that the relationship truly deepens further...  I have dated someone who didn't wait and wasn't in a strong position about it, but recognized that God's way was better for us.  I was ok with that because when we both agreed on what to aim for, we could better aim ourselves in the same direction as a couple. We ended up splitting up for other reasons though.

You are smarter than whoever you marry probably deserves.
Wow. Thank you. I have been blessed to have many wise people in my life.
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« Reply #112 on: September 07, 2012, 01:15:47 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


ESF P or J.

What?


stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #113 on: September 08, 2012, 09:55:12 PM »

I'm supposedly ISFP.
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« Reply #114 on: September 08, 2012, 10:34:50 PM »

This lightside religious stuff seems very confusing and burdensome. The dark side seems much more appealing right now. No more judgment or condemnation, no more guilt or impossible ethical code to follow. Just absolute freedom and indulgence in my passions--along with the ability to be accepting of everyone opposed to judging them or telling them how they ought to behave like religion does. I highly sympathize with Anakin Skywalker's fall to the darkside.

Sorry I've been watching too much Star Wars

Yeah...and Anakin led a blissful life after his appetitive passions drove him to kill his wife and help Palpatine enslave a million worlds.

The Jedi are about bringing their passions under submission. A lot like Orthodoxy actually, except without lightsabers and midichlorians.

We do have the Holy Mysteries, though. Nothing is impossible for Christ who gives us strength.

We don't need lightsabers and midichlorians.  We have Cossack sabres and medium tanks.  God save Vladimir Putin!  Lighthouse of Orthodoxy!
Amin! Slava Vladimiru!
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« Reply #115 on: September 18, 2012, 08:09:41 AM »

How can God expect us not to fornicate but allow us to be born with an insatiable sexual appetite?

How can he expect that we don't be angry but to allow us to be born with anger? If you would follow right this sort of logic, you can say everything is allowed to me do, because everybody has more ore less jealousy, anger, hate, judging, sometimes desire to kill somebody, revenge, etc. in his character. You see the abyss of this logic?! To be born with something didn't mean you should accept it. We need the strangle against the passions, without it, we couldn't never reach humility.
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« Reply #116 on: September 18, 2012, 08:51:55 AM »

Maybe the question should have asked who wished they had waited until marriage.  Sometimes asking the wrong question gets the wrong answer.
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« Reply #117 on: September 18, 2012, 01:50:51 PM »

From the tone of many of these posts I'm guessing that a number of you are quite young men. Those of us who have reached an older age can verify it all gets easier once the body calms down and biology assumes you've done what you need to do to maintain the human race.
We are not cursed with these desires - God blessed us with a desire for our partner and should you allow that blessing to find its proper expression you will be closer to enjoying the fullness of what God intends for you. The quick, improper use will not be a longlasting joy. Remember the wedding at Cana - the last wine drawn was the best - a metaphor for the blessings that often come from many years shared in marriage - the deeper the relationship goes the better it can become.
There are plenty of faithful Orthodox women in the world. Sometimes a man will look past such a woman because of worldly ideals about beauty or body shape. However, if what your heart truly longs for is a righteous woman then you will be drawn to a righteous woman - you will be drawn to what you desire.
And if you want a righteous woman to be drawn to you, try to live out the gospel as well as you can - she'll find you. Remember - there are women out there seeking in a husband the virtues you seek in a wife - but ask yourself if such a woman would be attracted to you.
Keep praying. Keep fasting. The body will run amock if you let it, but will curb it's waywardness if you are stern with it and demand it follows your commands.
God bless you.
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« Reply #118 on: September 18, 2012, 02:00:33 PM »

From the tone of many of these posts I'm guessing that a number of you are quite young men. Those of us who have reached an older age can verify it all gets easier once the body calms down and biology assumes you've done what you need to do to maintain the human race.
We are not cursed with these desires - God blessed us with a desire for our partner and should you allow that blessing to find its proper expression you will be closer to enjoying the fullness of what God intends for you. The quick, improper use will not be a longlasting joy. Remember the wedding at Cana - the last wine drawn was the best - a metaphor for the blessings that often come from many years shared in marriage - the deeper the relationship goes the better it can become.
There are plenty of faithful Orthodox women in the world. Sometimes a man will look past such a woman because of worldly ideals about beauty or body shape. However, if what your heart truly longs for is a righteous woman then you will be drawn to a righteous woman - you will be drawn to what you desire.
And if you want a righteous woman to be drawn to you, try to live out the gospel as well as you can - she'll find you. Remember - there are women out there seeking in a husband the virtues you seek in a wife - but ask yourself if such a woman would be attracted to you.
Keep praying. Keep fasting. The body will run amock if you let it, but will curb it's waywardness if you are stern with it and demand it follows your commands.
God bless you.

Thank you Father.

Your wisdom is appreciated.

Women also need to heed your advice as true love will wait. If we put God first in our relationship, then God will bless us. Yes, it takes prayer and fasting to control our passions, but the benefits far outweigh any small inconveniences.

When I was seeking a husband, I asked God to help me. I looked for three signs:
1. I would meet my future husband at a Christian gathering.
2. He would lead me into a deeper relationship with Christ.
3. He would be tall, blue-eyed, and blonde.

All three conditions were met within three months.
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« Reply #119 on: September 18, 2012, 02:03:26 PM »

From the tone of many of these posts I'm guessing that a number of you are quite young men. Those of us who have reached an older age can verify it all gets easier once the body calms down and biology assumes you've done what you need to do to maintain the human race.
We are not cursed with these desires - God blessed us with a desire for our partner and should you allow that blessing to find its proper expression you will be closer to enjoying the fullness of what God intends for you. The quick, improper use will not be a longlasting joy. Remember the wedding at Cana - the last wine drawn was the best - a metaphor for the blessings that often come from many years shared in marriage - the deeper the relationship goes the better it can become.
There are plenty of faithful Orthodox women in the world. Sometimes a man will look past such a woman because of worldly ideals about beauty or body shape. However, if what your heart truly longs for is a righteous woman then you will be drawn to a righteous woman - you will be drawn to what you desire.
And if you want a righteous woman to be drawn to you, try to live out the gospel as well as you can - she'll find you. Remember - there are women out there seeking in a husband the virtues you seek in a wife - but ask yourself if such a woman would be attracted to you.
Keep praying. Keep fasting. The body will run amock if you let it, but will curb it's waywardness if you are stern with it and demand it follows your commands.
God bless you.

Thank you Father.

Your wisdom is appreciated.

Women also need to heed your advice as true love will wait. If we put God first in our relationship, then God will bless us. Yes, it takes prayer and fasting to control our passions, but the benefits far outweigh any small inconveniences.

When I was seeking a husband, I asked God to help me. I looked for three signs:
1. I would meet my future husband at a Christian gathering.
2. He would lead me into a deeper relationship with Christ.
3. He would be tall, blue-eyed, and blonde.

All three conditions were met within three months.
What a match-maker we have in Jesus! Amen!!!
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« Reply #120 on: September 18, 2012, 02:16:31 PM »

From the tone of many of these posts I'm guessing that a number of you are quite young men. Those of us who have reached an older age can verify it all gets easier once the body calms down and biology assumes you've done what you need to do to maintain the human race.
We are not cursed with these desires - God blessed us with a desire for our partner and should you allow that blessing to find its proper expression you will be closer to enjoying the fullness of what God intends for you. The quick, improper use will not be a longlasting joy. Remember the wedding at Cana - the last wine drawn was the best - a metaphor for the blessings that often come from many years shared in marriage - the deeper the relationship goes the better it can become.
There are plenty of faithful Orthodox women in the world. Sometimes a man will look past such a woman because of worldly ideals about beauty or body shape. However, if what your heart truly longs for is a righteous woman then you will be drawn to a righteous woman - you will be drawn to what you desire.
And if you want a righteous woman to be drawn to you, try to live out the gospel as well as you can - she'll find you. Remember - there are women out there seeking in a husband the virtues you seek in a wife - but ask yourself if such a woman would be attracted to you.
Keep praying. Keep fasting. The body will run amock if you let it, but will curb it's waywardness if you are stern with it and demand it follows your commands.
God bless you.

Thank you so much for these wise words. I started the topic because I'm now in my 30's and, at least in NY USA, there are more sightings of bigfoot than virtuous women. They seem astonished and disturbed that I believe in waiting till marriage. I really wonder how the Orthodox will replenish the faithful ! The catholic women don't seem terribly interested in chastity; and really its mostly fundamentalist evangelicals that are, nominally, trying to live chaste. I'm not a bad looking guy (my avatar is me) but I don't have much money or a good job. Still it just seemed like such a rarity I'm glad I've gotten some support and examples here.
I do wonder what the most sexually conservative country is? Sadly, its probably Islamic. Perhaps Poland ?
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« Reply #121 on: September 18, 2012, 02:17:34 PM »

From the tone of many of these posts I'm guessing that a number of you are quite young men. Those of us who have reached an older age can verify it all gets easier once the body calms down and biology assumes you've done what you need to do to maintain the human race.
We are not cursed with these desires - God blessed us with a desire for our partner and should you allow that blessing to find its proper expression you will be closer to enjoying the fullness of what God intends for you. The quick, improper use will not be a longlasting joy. Remember the wedding at Cana - the last wine drawn was the best - a metaphor for the blessings that often come from many years shared in marriage - the deeper the relationship goes the better it can become.
There are plenty of faithful Orthodox women in the world. Sometimes a man will look past such a woman because of worldly ideals about beauty or body shape. However, if what your heart truly longs for is a righteous woman then you will be drawn to a righteous woman - you will be drawn to what you desire.
And if you want a righteous woman to be drawn to you, try to live out the gospel as well as you can - she'll find you. Remember - there are women out there seeking in a husband the virtues you seek in a wife - but ask yourself if such a woman would be attracted to you.
Keep praying. Keep fasting. The body will run amock if you let it, but will curb it's waywardness if you are stern with it and demand it follows your commands.
God bless you.

Thank you Father.

Your wisdom is appreciated.

Women also need to heed your advice as true love will wait. If we put God first in our relationship, then God will bless us. Yes, it takes prayer and fasting to control our passions, but the benefits far outweigh any small inconveniences.

When I was seeking a husband, I asked God to help me. I looked for three signs:
1. I would meet my future husband at a Christian gathering.
2. He would lead me into a deeper relationship with Christ.
3. He would be tall, blue-eyed, and blonde.

All three conditions were met within three months.
What a match-maker we have in Jesus! Amen!!!

Amen. Alleluia.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory forever!
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« Reply #122 on: September 18, 2012, 05:02:52 PM »

From the tone of many of these posts I'm guessing that a number of you are quite young men. Those of us who have reached an older age can verify it all gets easier once the body calms down and biology assumes you've done what you need to do to maintain the human race.
We are not cursed with these desires - God blessed us with a desire for our partner and should you allow that blessing to find its proper expression you will be closer to enjoying the fullness of what God intends for you. The quick, improper use will not be a longlasting joy. Remember the wedding at Cana - the last wine drawn was the best - a metaphor for the blessings that often come from many years shared in marriage - the deeper the relationship goes the better it can become.
There are plenty of faithful Orthodox women in the world. Sometimes a man will look past such a woman because of worldly ideals about beauty or body shape. However, if what your heart truly longs for is a righteous woman then you will be drawn to a righteous woman - you will be drawn to what you desire.
And if you want a righteous woman to be drawn to you, try to live out the gospel as well as you can - she'll find you. Remember - there are women out there seeking in a husband the virtues you seek in a wife - but ask yourself if such a woman would be attracted to you.
Keep praying. Keep fasting. The body will run amock if you let it, but will curb it's waywardness if you are stern with it and demand it follows your commands.
God bless you.

Thank you Father.

Your wisdom is appreciated.

Women also need to heed your advice as true love will wait. If we put God first in our relationship, then God will bless us. Yes, it takes prayer and fasting to control our passions, but the benefits far outweigh any small inconveniences.

When I was seeking a husband, I asked God to help me. I looked for three signs:
1. I would meet my future husband at a Christian gathering.
2. He would lead me into a deeper relationship with Christ.
3. He would be tall, blue-eyed, and blonde.

All three conditions were met within three months.
A very good friend of mine was well into her thirties before she married had a child.  Good example for women I think.  She trusted God.
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« Reply #123 on: September 18, 2012, 05:13:38 PM »

From the tone of many of these posts I'm guessing that a number of you are quite young men. Those of us who have reached an older age can verify it all gets easier once the body calms down and biology assumes you've done what you need to do to maintain the human race.
We are not cursed with these desires - God blessed us with a desire for our partner and should you allow that blessing to find its proper expression you will be closer to enjoying the fullness of what God intends for you. The quick, improper use will not be a longlasting joy. Remember the wedding at Cana - the last wine drawn was the best - a metaphor for the blessings that often come from many years shared in marriage - the deeper the relationship goes the better it can become.
There are plenty of faithful Orthodox women in the world. Sometimes a man will look past such a woman because of worldly ideals about beauty or body shape. However, if what your heart truly longs for is a righteous woman then you will be drawn to a righteous woman - you will be drawn to what you desire.
And if you want a righteous woman to be drawn to you, try to live out the gospel as well as you can - she'll find you. Remember - there are women out there seeking in a husband the virtues you seek in a wife - but ask yourself if such a woman would be attracted to you.
Keep praying. Keep fasting. The body will run amock if you let it, but will curb it's waywardness if you are stern with it and demand it follows your commands.
God bless you.
Father, bless!

Great post.
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« Reply #124 on: September 18, 2012, 05:24:42 PM »

From the tone of many of these posts I'm guessing that a number of you are quite young men. Those of us who have reached an older age can verify it all gets easier once the body calms down and biology assumes you've done what you need to do to maintain the human race.
We are not cursed with these desires - God blessed us with a desire for our partner and should you allow that blessing to find its proper expression you will be closer to enjoying the fullness of what God intends for you. The quick, improper use will not be a longlasting joy. Remember the wedding at Cana - the last wine drawn was the best - a metaphor for the blessings that often come from many years shared in marriage - the deeper the relationship goes the better it can become.
There are plenty of faithful Orthodox women in the world. Sometimes a man will look past such a woman because of worldly ideals about beauty or body shape. However, if what your heart truly longs for is a righteous woman then you will be drawn to a righteous woman - you will be drawn to what you desire.
And if you want a righteous woman to be drawn to you, try to live out the gospel as well as you can - she'll find you. Remember - there are women out there seeking in a husband the virtues you seek in a wife - but ask yourself if such a woman would be attracted to you.
Keep praying. Keep fasting. The body will run amock if you let it, but will curb it's waywardness if you are stern with it and demand it follows your commands.
God bless you.

Thank you Father.

Your wisdom is appreciated.

Women also need to heed your advice as true love will wait. If we put God first in our relationship, then God will bless us. Yes, it takes prayer and fasting to control our passions, but the benefits far outweigh any small inconveniences.

When I was seeking a husband, I asked God to help me. I looked for three signs:
1. I would meet my future husband at a Christian gathering.
2. He would lead me into a deeper relationship with Christ.
3. He would be tall, blue-eyed, and blonde.

All three conditions were met within three months.


Oh Lord, please send me a good Christian wife.  Please let her:
1- Be someone I meet at a Christian gathering, like one of the Serbian festivals so I am drunk enough to be able to fake confidence...
2- Lead me into a deeper relationship with Christ, so we can read excerpts from 1st Corinthians together...
3- Oh, and could her name be Angelina Jolie?  Failing that make her dark haired, dark eyed, strong...um hips and chest...and also be a duplicate of Angelina Jolie.  But, like, make her a lot younger.  I don't want to be hooking up with any 30+ spinsters.  Though, if she was an actress and had that kind of income, I'd be totally grateful.

Amen.

PS - Remember that Christian deaf girl I dated once?  Could this one also be deaf?  Just more so this time?

Amen.
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« Reply #125 on: September 18, 2012, 05:25:26 PM »

From the tone of many of these posts I'm guessing that a number of you are quite young men. Those of us who have reached an older age can verify it all gets easier once the body calms down and biology assumes you've done what you need to do to maintain the human race.
We are not cursed with these desires - God blessed us with a desire for our partner and should you allow that blessing to find its proper expression you will be closer to enjoying the fullness of what God intends for you. The quick, improper use will not be a longlasting joy. Remember the wedding at Cana - the last wine drawn was the best - a metaphor for the blessings that often come from many years shared in marriage - the deeper the relationship goes the better it can become.
There are plenty of faithful Orthodox women in the world. Sometimes a man will look past such a woman because of worldly ideals about beauty or body shape. However, if what your heart truly longs for is a righteous woman then you will be drawn to a righteous woman - you will be drawn to what you desire.
And if you want a righteous woman to be drawn to you, try to live out the gospel as well as you can - she'll find you. Remember - there are women out there seeking in a husband the virtues you seek in a wife - but ask yourself if such a woman would be attracted to you.
Keep praying. Keep fasting. The body will run amock if you let it, but will curb it's waywardness if you are stern with it and demand it follows your commands.
God bless you.

Thank you so much for these wise words. I started the topic because I'm now in my 30's and, at least in NY USA, there are more sightings of bigfoot than virtuous women. They seem astonished and disturbed that I believe in waiting till marriage. I really wonder how the Orthodox will replenish the faithful ! The catholic women don't seem terribly interested in chastity; and really its mostly fundamentalist evangelicals that are, nominally, trying to live chaste. I'm not a bad looking guy (my avatar is me) but I don't have much money or a good job. Still it just seemed like such a rarity I'm glad I've gotten some support and examples here.
I do wonder what the most sexually conservative country is? Sadly, its probably Islamic. Perhaps Poland ?

The only really decent girl I know is Hindu.

----------------

Also, Father, thanks for that.
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« Reply #126 on: September 18, 2012, 05:48:08 PM »

Father Spyridon, thank you for your post. It really gives hope. It's another lesson of trust in God.

I do wonder what the most sexually conservative country is? Sadly, its probably Islamic. Perhaps Poland ?

Poland nowadays absolutely is not so sexually conservative. Only in official talks. What's happenning with teenagers... Better not to comment. Only among practicing Christians (especially those who are in some religious groups or brotherhoods) it's normal to wait with sex until marriage. A lot of Polish change quite frequently sexual partners.

E.g. it's known among my friends that I'm an Orthodox Christian so I want to wait till marriage to have sex, and on the one hand they respect it, but on the other hand it's very strange and unusual for them. Unfortunately, I know it won't be so easy for me to find a man that will want wait with "these things".
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