OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 23, 2014, 12:10:03 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Being Politically involved.  (Read 454 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
DaveInCSA
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican with Orthodox leanings
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 59


« on: September 04, 2012, 10:28:33 AM »

I'm reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent and the talk of detachment from the world is stirring up something in me. I'm feeling led to detach myself from politics.

I find that for me personally, it stirs up a lot of anger and hatred at people I don't even know. If Satan can show Jesus the Kingdoms of the World and offer them to Him, then this political realm, to me anyway, is territory of Satan. And if I'm to live like an exile and sojourner in this life, I just don't like how angry I get about political things that I honestly have zero control over. Better for me to stop reading political blogs, listening to talk radio, and watching the news in general than to be angry. My involvement isn't going to change anything.

I don't know.....thoughts? Prayers?

Dave
Logged
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,487


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 10:38:25 AM »

I'm reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent and the talk of detachment from the world is stirring up something in me. I'm feeling led to detach myself from politics.

I find that for me personally, it stirs up a lot of anger and hatred at people I don't even know. If Satan can show Jesus the Kingdoms of the World and offer them to Him, then this political realm, to me anyway, is territory of Satan. And if I'm to live like an exile and sojourner in this life, I just don't like how angry I get about political things that I honestly have zero control over. Better for me to stop reading political blogs, listening to talk radio, and watching the news in general than to be angry. My involvement isn't going to change anything.

I don't know.....thoughts? Prayers?

Dave

Welcome to the group.  I've felt this way since before I was Orthodox.  I know I simply cannot delve too deeply into politics w/o getting very annoyed (at best).  I vote.  When asked, I give my humble opinion and will listen to others give theirs and think about what they've said.  But when anyone starts trying to draw me into some debate over a political disagreement, I withdraw and do so quickly.  When someone pulls the, "OH YEAH?!  WELL WHAT ABOUT YOUR GUY?!" line, I'm out (I rarely have "a guy" to begin with).  For me, a political disagreement is not worth damaging a friendship or a familial relationship.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
soderquj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOAA, Metropolis of Denver
Posts: 236



WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2012, 11:12:38 AM »

I'm reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent and the talk of detachment from the world is stirring up something in me. I'm feeling led to detach myself from politics.

I find that for me personally, it stirs up a lot of anger and hatred at people I don't even know. If Satan can show Jesus the Kingdoms of the World and offer them to Him, then this political realm, to me anyway, is territory of Satan. And if I'm to live like an exile and sojourner in this life, I just don't like how angry I get about political things that I honestly have zero control over. Better for me to stop reading political blogs, listening to talk radio, and watching the news in general than to be angry. My involvement isn't going to change anything.

I don't know.....thoughts? Prayers?

Dave

I completely agree. It has become apparent (at least to me) that the current vitriol is to control the population and stop us from actually communicating and solving anything.  No matter what is presented it is attacked and becomes personal. Politics is a den of vipers ready to draw in and become addicting to any who like that sort of drama.
Logged

O God, cleanse me a sinner and have mercy on me.
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Jerkodox
Posts: 6,940



« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2012, 11:23:13 AM »

I'm reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent and the talk of detachment from the world is stirring up something in me.

While I understand your thoughts and in a way also agree with them, please keep in mind that it was written for monastics. It shouldn't be applied to laymen without careful consideration.
Logged

DaveInCSA
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican with Orthodox leanings
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 59


« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2012, 11:44:54 AM »

I'm reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent and the talk of detachment from the world is stirring up something in me.

While I understand your thoughts and in a way also agree with them, please keep in mind that it was written for monastics. It shouldn't be applied to laymen without careful consideration.

I understand that. This is something that I have been considering for some time and the book is stirring that thought within me.
Logged
Opus118
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,670



« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2012, 12:01:04 PM »

I'm reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent and the talk of detachment from the world is stirring up something in me. I'm feeling led to detach myself from politics.

I find that for me personally, it stirs up a lot of anger and hatred at people I don't even know. If Satan can show Jesus the Kingdoms of the World and offer them to Him, then this political realm, to me anyway, is territory of Satan. And if I'm to live like an exile and sojourner in this life, I just don't like how angry I get about political things that I honestly have zero control over. Better for me to stop reading political blogs, listening to talk radio, and watching the news in general than to be angry. My involvement isn't going to change anything.

I don't know.....thoughts? Prayers?

Dave

I disagree. I consider political involvement a responsibility. I do not get angry however, I am just saddened by it. I would rather be saddened than despondent. I do agree with some of your ideas. It is not very useful to listen to talk radio and read or participate in political blogs or pay any attention to talking points that are repeated over and over on a given day/week. It however is useful to listen to talk radio and read blogs to learn how to recognize when you are being emotionally manipulated. I find it disturbing when I see thread topics here that use the same techniques.

I am also happy to engage in civil political discussions when it is not anonymous and preferably in person. It inevitably leads to a discussion of the meaning of life and Christ's teachings. This is always a great opportunity to evangelize if you do not limit yourself to one particular issue and expand the discussion to why we are here in general. I dislike debating.

Logged
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,487


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2012, 12:47:58 PM »

I'm reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent and the talk of detachment from the world is stirring up something in me. I'm feeling led to detach myself from politics.

I find that for me personally, it stirs up a lot of anger and hatred at people I don't even know. If Satan can show Jesus the Kingdoms of the World and offer them to Him, then this political realm, to me anyway, is territory of Satan. And if I'm to live like an exile and sojourner in this life, I just don't like how angry I get about political things that I honestly have zero control over. Better for me to stop reading political blogs, listening to talk radio, and watching the news in general than to be angry. My involvement isn't going to change anything.

I don't know.....thoughts? Prayers?

Dave

I disagree. I consider political involvement a responsibility.

I think we have to define "involvement."  In my case, I would say "involvement" means voting and taking care to know what/who one is voting for.  It does not necessarily mean listening to the tripe that passes for political discourse nowadays which is often one-upmanship with downright malicious overtones.  It's more important to be perceived as the "winner" as opposed to a human being sharing an unique perspective on a given situation.

Quote
I am also happy to engage in civil political discussions when it is not anonymous and preferably in person. It inevitably leads to a discussion of the meaning of life and Christ's teachings. This is always a great opportunity to evangelize if you do not limit yourself to one particular issue and expand the discussion to why we are here in general. I dislike debating.

Unfortunately, even in person, political discourse tends to be anonymous in nature, meaning that one easily forgets (or worse, ignores) that one is engaging in person who has emotions.  It's all well and good to act like one is merely exchanging ideas, but people often identify with ideas on a very personal level, for good or ill.  It's part of human nature.  

« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 12:48:13 PM by Schultz » Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,610



« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2012, 02:26:55 PM »

The Greeks' second Apostle or something would say you have no other choice than to be involved in politics.

And nearly everyone gets the whole temptation of Christ thing wrong along with the render unto Caesar bit.

But yes, I am "less irritated and down" when I pay less attention to "politics", but who says life is about avoiding irritation and sadness when it is the appropriate response?

Sometimes I play in the fray around here, but really people around here are not really concerned in their discussions about politics but more about gamesmanship. There is a difference.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 02:27:41 PM by orthonorm » Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2012, 02:38:49 PM »

I disagree. I consider political involvement a responsibility.
I'm with you. It also is saddening to see people who supposedly don't care about politics and don't vote. It's too important to ignore.

The only part I get angry about is when people vote agains their best self-interest or wanting to stop socializing things like Healthcare.

I'll stop here though lol.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Opus118
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,670



« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2012, 01:23:23 AM »

I'm reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent and the talk of detachment from the world is stirring up something in me. I'm feeling led to detach myself from politics.

I find that for me personally, it stirs up a lot of anger and hatred at people I don't even know. If Satan can show Jesus the Kingdoms of the World and offer them to Him, then this political realm, to me anyway, is territory of Satan. And if I'm to live like an exile and sojourner in this life, I just don't like how angry I get about political things that I honestly have zero control over. Better for me to stop reading political blogs, listening to talk radio, and watching the news in general than to be angry. My involvement isn't going to change anything.

I don't know.....thoughts? Prayers?

Dave

I disagree. I consider political involvement a responsibility.

I think we have to define "involvement."  In my case, I would say "involvement" means voting and taking care to know what/who one is voting for.  It does not necessarily mean listening to the tripe that passes for political discourse nowadays which is often one-upmanship with downright malicious overtones.  It's more important to be perceived as the "winner" as opposed to a human being sharing an unique perspective on a given situation.

Quote
I am also happy to engage in civil political discussions when it is not anonymous and preferably in person. It inevitably leads to a discussion of the meaning of life and Christ's teachings. This is always a great opportunity to evangelize if you do not limit yourself to one particular issue and expand the discussion to why we are here in general. I dislike debating.

Unfortunately, even in person, political discourse tends to be anonymous in nature, meaning that one easily forgets (or worse, ignores) that one is engaging in person who has emotions.  It's all well and good to act like one is merely exchanging ideas, but people often identify with ideas on a very personal level, for good or ill.  It's part of human nature.  



By involvement, I meant learning the issues and voting.

In regard to your other statement. Any discourse with me is personal in nature (political or otherwise). I also care about the person I am talking to and I am pretty sure they realize it during the course of the conversation. I am guessing I have not experienced what you are referring to (at least I hope not).
Logged
Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,391


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2012, 02:03:19 AM »

I'm reading the Ladder of Divine Ascent and the talk of detachment from the world is stirring up something in me. I'm feeling led to detach myself from politics.

I find that for me personally, it stirs up a lot of anger and hatred at people I don't even know. If Satan can show Jesus the Kingdoms of the World and offer them to Him, then this political realm, to me anyway, is territory of Satan. And if I'm to live like an exile and sojourner in this life, I just don't like how angry I get about political things that I honestly have zero control over. Better for me to stop reading political blogs, listening to talk radio, and watching the news in general than to be angry. My involvement isn't going to change anything.

I don't know.....thoughts? Prayers?

Dave

Please don't stop listening to the Holy Spirit! Don't let anyone convince you that you are on the wrong path here. Remember that some of the most positively influential people - socially and politically - were those who never wasted time being formally involved in the political process. Most of the Saints would fit this category. God help anyone who says that the Saints were not "involved" in influencing the world for the better. And of course, Our Lord Himself is our supreme example. So continue to follow Him, and put away thy political sword. God be with you!


Selam
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 02:07:47 AM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"Don't register. Don't vote.
Don't enlist. Don't deploy.
Don't take oaths. Don't say the pledge.
Pray to God, and start a revolution instead!"
Selam, +GMK+
Cognomen
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: Phyletism Rules, OK
Posts: 1,968


Ungrateful Biped


« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2012, 02:35:14 AM »

I feel the same way as the OP, but it's a bit difficult for me to avoid. 

Still, I've backed off from partisanship greatly, and I would be wary of any who advise you to remain involved in that.  Doing so has been beneficial both to me, my faith, and I find I'm a bit more persuasive to those capable of being swayed.

As Schultz wanted to define "involvement," so too should we define the "responsibility" to be involved.  I am not against using politics to pursue what we are charged with doing, but I also don't readily detect a "responsibility" to be involved in politics from scripture or tradition.

Similarly, when is it our responsibility to become involved?  It seems that people would disagree on that.  Governmental wealth redistribution and anti-abortion activism?  I would wager that while some would be for one, they would likely be against the other, but both thinking their positions are the truly Christian one (That debate is a different topic).

Regarding your post, Dave, I don't see your move away as a bad thing at all.  I think many of us have been similarly moved.  Perhaps some are still called to be involved while others are better off distancing themselves.
Logged

North American Eastern Orthodox Parish Council Delegate for the Canonization of Saints Twin Towers and Pentagon, as well as the Propagation of the Doctrine of the Assumption of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 (NAEOPCDCSTTPPDAMAFM®).
Ansgar
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: More than an inquirer, less than a catechumen
Jurisdiction: Exarchate of orthodox churches of russian tradition in western Europe
Posts: 3,000


Keep your mind in hell and do not despair


« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2012, 03:26:47 AM »

While I am not reading political blogs, I do watch the news and read newspapers and i am interested in hearing what the politicians have to say. However I recently came to realize that I will never find a party or a politician whom I will agree with all the time, so I have decided to try remaining politically neutral and instead focuse on the indiviual bills which the parties present. I have found that this is a great way for me not to get personally involved in political discussions. It makes it easier for me to concentrate about mor eimportant things.

Regarding the OP, I think it is a very good decision if you benefit from it.
Logged

Do not be cast down over the struggle - the Lord loves a brave warrior. The Lord loves the soul that is valiant.

-St Silouan the athonite
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.099 seconds with 40 queries.