Poll

Can Christ be found in Nature?

Yes, you can love and study Nature to the point where Christ becomes visible and known.
5 (38.5%)
Yes, but the love and study of Nature will lead you to Church, where Christ can be known.
1 (7.7%)
Yes, but only if one already knows Christ, via the Church.
4 (30.8%)
No, the study and love of Nature only reveals only the creation, not Christ.
3 (23.1%)
No, and Nature can very easily take you *away* from Christ.
0 (0%)
No, because Nature is fallen just like humanity is.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 13

Author Topic: Can Christ be found in Nature?  (Read 698 times)

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Offline Jetavan

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Can Christ be found in Nature?
« on: September 01, 2012, 07:23:14 PM »
Can Christ be found in Nature? What do you think?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2012, 07:30:14 PM »
Do you mean know about Christ, or know Christ's work, or as a manifestation of the activity of Christ... or actually Christ Himself (in the same sense that I might say I know someone because I talk with them daily)?

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2012, 07:31:41 PM »
Do you mean know about Christ, or know Christ's work, or as a manifestation of the activity of Christ... or actually Christ Himself (in the same sense that I might say I know someone because I talk with them daily)?
Christ Himself.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2012, 07:34:59 PM »
Thank you for the clarification. This one I'm not sure on... thinking of the Old Testament figures who were noteworthy for closeness to God (e.g. David), I wonder how much they knew Christ... on the other hand, St. Justin Martyr said that even Socrates knew Christ in part. Huh. Not sure. But I voted yes, though I think how well you'd know him outside of hearing the Gospel message or something similar would be somewhat vague or hazy.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2012, 11:04:21 PM »
Just to clarify my own post, when I spoke of closeness to God I was assuming that closeness to God would help in seeing/knowing Christ in/through nature.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 08:05:59 PM »
Popular. This poll is not that.  :angel:
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 08:06:15 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline age234

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 08:23:31 PM »
This takes me back to the discussion of General and Special Revelation from my youth.

I believe creation does reveal something of God. It does not reveal the totality which can only be found in the Church, but it may be enough to those who never find the Church.

For that reason I've never understood the people who replace church attendance with "nature walks" or whatever. Rejecting Christ himself in favor of the "dark glass" reflection found in nature is blasphemous IMO.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 08:24:04 PM by age234 »

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 09:14:42 PM »

I found Him in nature! 

See!?!



Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2012, 09:16:08 PM »

I found Him in nature! 

See!?!

An icon? LBK is convinced! As for the rest of us...  :police:

Offline Shiny

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 09:16:59 PM »

I found Him in nature! 

See!?!

An icon? LBK is convinced! As for the rest of us...  :police:

I can Him in nature too. It's just second nature.
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Offline William

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 09:17:23 PM »

I found Him in nature! 

See!?!

An icon? LBK is convinced! As for the rest of us...  :police:

We'll need to verify the canonicity of the icon with her, though.

I think the answer is yes. Just look at tradition.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2012, 09:20:33 PM »
Well I think that nature can point to a Creator but not necessarily Christ or the God of Christianity; that can only be discovered through the sacramental life of the Church. Nature only paints a deistic image of God at best.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2012, 10:09:43 PM »
So I guess that prayer at the start of Divine Liturgy as the deacon blesses the temple...you know, the one that says "Holy is the Lord, all the world is filled with His Glory" is wrong?
"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2012, 10:12:10 PM »
I would change my vote if I could. But I cannot.

Offline biro

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2012, 10:22:44 PM »
Creation reflects the glory of God.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2012, 11:43:26 PM »
Absolutely.  It's in those silent moments on the land when faith leaps directly into your soul, and you know that God our creator made an incredible world for us.   The sun setting and watching the goats forage on wild edibles, cedar trees, weeds, grasses, and other plants is amazing.   Perfectly designed, perfectly grown, all of it.... Perfect. God is completely in nature, I have no doubt.

Many monastics recluse into nature to know God better.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2012, 02:13:18 AM »

I found Him in nature! 

See!?!

An icon? LBK is convinced! As for the rest of us...  :police:

We'll need to verify the canonicity of the icon with her, though.

I think the answer is yes. Just look at tradition.

Whoever 'shopped the title of that icon got it wrong. It should read "Creation of the Birds and Fishes".  :o  :o Ain't no animals in that icon.

Otherwise, it's quite kosher as an icon.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2012, 08:12:02 AM »
Quote
Take delight in all things that sur­round us. All things teach us and lead us to God. All things around us are droplets of the love of God — both things ani­mate and inan­i­mate, the plants and the ani­mals, the birds and the moun­tains, the sea and the sun­set and the starry sky. They are lit­tle loves through which we attain to the great Love that is Christ. Flow­ers, for exam­ple, have their own grace; they teach us with their fra­grance and with their mag­nif­i­cence. They speak to us of the love of God. They scat­ter their fra­grance and their beauty on sin­ners and on the righteous.
- Elder Porphyrios

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2012, 10:26:07 AM »
Forget it. Off to get wonderful news.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 10:32:21 AM by orthonorm »
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2012, 10:39:41 AM »


When you get that "wonderful news", share it with the rest of us!!!
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Can Christ be found in Nature?
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2012, 04:11:21 PM »

I found Him in nature! 

See!?!

An icon? LBK is convinced! As for the rest of us...  :police:

We'll need to verify the canonicity of the icon with her, though.

I think the answer is yes. Just look at tradition.

Whoever 'shopped the title of that icon got it wrong. It should read "Creation of the Birds and Fishes".  :o  :o Ain't no animals in that icon.

Otherwise, it's quite kosher as an icon.
Uh...the animals are in the water: a baleen whale and a dolphin.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.