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Author Topic: I Want to See the Uncreated Light  (Read 1416 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: August 31, 2012, 08:53:19 PM »

I know that it sounds really silly, but after watching Star Wars again, and seeing how wise and powerful Master Yoda was with the Force, it has given me a boost of morale in my spiritual life to become deified. I really want to see the Uncreated Light and enter into that blissful state of Heaven like our Saints have in their earthly lives, and develop those great powers to be able to heal people and work miracles.

What is the first step in 'coming-back to God'? The past few months I have not really been the best. I haven't prayed in at least a month, I still keep masturbating and looking at porn etc and just neglecting my religious duties. I have the motivation to get back on track, but I don't know how. I was thinking that maybe I should try to start praying again and then take it from there.

Mark my words, I will see the Uncreated Light someday
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« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 08:56:04 PM »

Purification, THEN illumination, and finally (by God's grace), theosis.

It sounds easy, right? Right.  Tongue
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« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2012, 09:03:41 PM »

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Mark my words, I will see the Uncreated Light someday

You are young and eager, Grasshopper. But foolish in your youth.

In all seriousness, there are exceedingly few human beings who have seen the Uncreated Light during their earthly lives, the vast majority of saints included. And, even for the few that did, it was practically too much for them to bear. When Christ was transfigured on Mt Tabor, he chose to takwe only three of His disciples, not all twelve. Even those three could bear only a glimpse of it.

Do not seek signs and wonders to confirm your faith, such things can burn as easily as they strengthen. Work on yourself and your passions first.
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« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2012, 09:07:24 PM »

A purer life and a consistently-kept prayer rule is a good place to start
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2012, 09:19:46 PM »

I was thinking that maybe I should try to start praying again
This.
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« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2012, 09:30:22 PM »

Even though LBK is right, this sounds like an AYSF (sorry Asteriktos).
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2012, 09:31:34 PM »

James,

 Heaven is not some sort of Star Wars quasi-nirvana.  Although theosis does give special powers (common to all before the Fall), you won't be able to hop over X-Wing fighters (or whatever Yoda does).  From what I've read, you're going to want to log off forever, attend every service you can, and work on repentance, prayer and humility.
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« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2012, 10:35:06 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I know that it sounds really silly, but after watching Star Wars again, and seeing how wise and powerful Master Yoda was with the Force, it has given me a boost of morale in my spiritual life to become deified. I really want to see the Uncreated Light and enter into that blissful state of Heaven like our Saints have in their earthly lives, and develop those great powers to be able to heal people and work miracles.

 I was thinking that maybe I should try to start praying again and then take it from there.

Mark my words, I will see the Uncreated Light someday

The first step to finding Grace is to learn not necessarily to want it, but just to accept that you need it and also give God His own right to decide when to send it while developing continually that relationship with God to know when to receive it and how to be content in its appeared absence.  After all, how is God ever NOT with us, when we continually are gifted with life? EVERY SINGLE MOMENT OF LIFE is a manifestation of the dynamic and direct power of God in our lives, what exactly more do we need in the long arc?

stay blessed,
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2012, 10:37:06 PM »

I've thought about this for awhile if I ever want to see such a thing. I'm not sure I do.
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2012, 11:03:53 PM »

Mark my words, I will see the Uncreated Light someday

Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos once said that it is blasphemous to make such statements.  One thing I'm sure of is that blasphemers don't see the uncreated Light of God. There are people who have been purified and illumined and NEVER see the uncreated Light, so don't get your hopes up.   
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2012, 11:11:53 PM »

Mark my words, I will see the Uncreated Light someday

Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos once said that it is blasphemous to make such statements.  One thing I'm sure of is that blasphemers don't see the uncreated Light of God. There are people who have been purified and illumined and NEVER see the uncreated Light, so don't get your hopes up.   

Adding to this, God's hand cannot be forced. He gives certain people an experience of the uncreated and withholds such experiences from others for reasons beyond our comprehension.
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2012, 12:36:32 AM »

The Uncreated Light is the easiest thing to see because God loves us and does not withhold things from us.
But first, God waits to purify our hearts and makes sure that we simply don't just want things from Him, but that we want Him; we love Him, too. Otherwise, the Uncreated Light would not mean much to us, or would be too much for us as it happened with the apostles on Mount Tabor. We need to be on the path to holiness, to receive it, otherwise it's as if we are asking for a "light show" to entertain us for a bit. Discipline, patience, hope!
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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2012, 12:39:45 AM »

I'm currently writing the dummy's guide to seeing the uncreated light. you can pre-order it on amazon.
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« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2012, 01:20:22 AM »

Elder Prophyrios spoke of his soon coming death with his disciples and when asked about his place in heaven or hell, he replied, and I paraphrase, "I will say wherever Thy love places me, O Lord, wherever Thy love places me, only do not separate me from Thy love."

If this heart is in you at all times you will have already what is most precious in your possession, a gift better than miracles.

Consider that Jesus said many will come unto Him in that day and say Lord didn't we prophesy and work miracles in your name? He will say, "When I was hungry you didn't feed me, when I was naked you didn't clothe me, when I was in prison you didn't visit me. Depart from me, I never knew you."

Want to to have a rich and pure enough relationship with Christ so as to do wonders is not a bad thing and indeed it is given to some for the good of others. Consider again Elder Prophyrios. He was a great wonderworker…would put Yoda to shame real life. He had the gift of unerring prophecy, knew the hearts of men, could "see" others at great distances, could "borrow" another's eyes or faculties of speech. He could see deep into the earth to know where lost icons, old ruins, hidden sources of water were to be found. He even was known to both bend space and time and to question rocks about the holy men who had sat upon them…and get answers…amazing things. Things you wouldn't believe except you hate to call so many witnesses liars who said they did happen. And yes he saw the uncreated light. 

How did that come about for him. First several years as a hyper obedient, ever joyful young man under the care of two very strict elders on Mt. Athos. Lots of prayer, church services, bodily labor, and spiritual reading…then devastating sickness that forced him off Mt. Athos until the very end of his earthly life. More prayer, more church, more spiritual reading, busy to the point of physical exhaustion serving others, then a variety of debilitating diseases (cancer among them) and botched surgeries after God had blessed him with great gifts. Do you know what spiritual wish he prayed for as a youth…for which his elders rebuked him…spiritual gifts?  No…he wanted cancer so he might suffer with Christ. And once he was gifted with such grace as to work wonders, he never used them once for his own personal gain or benefit…he went to doctors for his cancer, for his failing eyesight…no miracles of healing for him…though through his prayers he healed hundreds if not thousands.  In his old age, because of his cancer, which made his tongue to grow too large he had trouble speaking and he had back problems, and circulation problems in his legs and feet from years of difficult labor when younger and better able. In all this he blessed God, and still saw many people each day to show them love and give them counsel though it was often physically excruciating for him to continue at times.

In the last months of his life, very weak in body, though lively in mind he was able to return to his beloved Mt. Athos and complete his life's journey.

Are you ready to undertake a life of spiritual struggle on that scale? Can you be baptized with that baptism? Will you undertake it even if God does not give great gifts (and they are gifts…not wages earned) and be happy with whatsoever the Lord gives you…even if it is only multiplied crosses and sorrows? Can the door to that furnace be opened in your face and you say, "Here am I Lord."

Be sure you really want the great spiritual gifts and the sight of the uncreated light…He keeps them accessible to all at the back on the bottom shelf in the furnace of godly affliction.

Take some time to read the lives of those blessed with great gifts and the uncreated light. Look at the nature of the path they followed…if you really want it…that's what it will cost to be purified so that if God chooses He can entrust you with such things….things that if you aren't ready can easily destroy you, setting you up to face temptations for which you are not prepared. 

To desire that close a place with the Lord, that intimate and pure a walk is a noble thing…but it lies at the end of a path paved with thorns.
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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2012, 03:31:43 AM »

Even though LBK is right, this sounds like an AYSF (sorry Asteriktos).

This is great advice... that is, if he has a trusted spiritual father to ask  Smiley
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« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2012, 03:35:58 AM »

I'm currently writing the dummy's guide to seeing the uncreated light. you can pre-order it on amazon.
Shouldn't that be distributed to each according to his need.
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« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2012, 03:56:09 AM »

I'm currently writing the dummy's guide to seeing the uncreated light. you can pre-order it on amazon.
Shouldn't that be distributed to each according to his need.

That's communism. Communism comes after socialism. According to JamesR, anyway, in socialism, it will be distributed to each according to his work.
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« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2012, 04:40:54 AM »

Are you ready to undertake a life of spiritual struggle on that scale? Can you be baptized with that baptism? Will you undertake it even if God does not give great gifts (and they are gifts…not wages earned) and be happy with whatsoever the Lord gives you…even if it is only multiplied crosses and sorrows? Can the door to that furnace be opened in your face and you say, "Here am I Lord."

Yes; I am ready. As St. Peter said, where else can I go? If the only path includes all of these tribulations and obstacles, then so be it. You know, before I used to hate God for allowing me to live such a lousy life in the past, but now I thank Him because I believe that it will make this journey much easier for me since I am already used to suffering and struggling.
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2012, 05:01:13 AM »

Yoda was just a gnostic so we can ignore him.

But while I'm no expert on uncreated light and I'm going through pretty much the exact same thing you are, I suppose the best place to start is have a regular prayer life. Start small and grow big, salvation isn't a one time event like fundamentalists make it out to be, its a life time of work. Even if its at the last moments of your life it will be worth it.

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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2012, 05:16:30 AM »

Yoda was a fraud. All this positive thinking nonsense.
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2012, 12:08:45 PM »

Are you ready to undertake a life of spiritual struggle on that scale? Can you be baptized with that baptism? Will you undertake it even if God does not give great gifts (and they are gifts…not wages earned) and be happy with whatsoever the Lord gives you…even if it is only multiplied crosses and sorrows? Can the door to that furnace be opened in your face and you say, "Here am I Lord."

Yes; I am ready. As St. Peter said, where else can I go? If the only path includes all of these tribulations and obstacles, then so be it. You know, before I used to hate God for allowing me to live such a lousy life in the past, but now I thank Him because I believe that it will make this journey much easier for me since I am already used to suffering and struggling.
How much regular contact do you have with your priest?
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« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2012, 04:51:18 PM »

Even though LBK is right, this sounds like an AYSF (sorry Asteriktos).

This is great advice... that is, if he has a trusted spiritual father to ask  Smiley

Should you only learn to skydive with an instructor if you have a particularly trusted one to ask?

Btw, he does.
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« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2012, 05:11:03 PM »

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What is the first step in 'coming-back to God'?

I'm glad you asked: How to come back to God

(I should probably just stick that in my signature by now, but I like finding places where it is appropriate.)

That said, why do you want to see the uncreated light? My understanding of such things is really not great (I haven't heard any priest in my church talk about it, that is), but as I understand, it is not necessary to see the Light in order to come back to God, or to be a saint, or what have you. You need prayers and to pray. We all need to pray. Put aside our desires and pray.
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« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2012, 06:58:47 PM »

If it is really light, is it uncreated?
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« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2012, 07:02:42 PM »

If it is really light, is it uncreated?
I guess the definition of light is important here. But correct me if I'm wrong but you don't actually see uncreated light?
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2012, 07:06:57 PM »

I'm currently writing the dummy's guide to seeing the uncreated light. you can pre-order it on amazon.
Shouldn't that be distributed to each according to his need.
There'll be no such needs in a people's state.
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2012, 07:08:44 PM »

I'm currently writing the dummy's guide to seeing the uncreated light. you can pre-order it on amazon.
Shouldn't that be distributed to each according to his need.
There'll be no such needs in a people's state.
Good point except there wouldn't be a state heh.
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2012, 07:26:50 PM »

Even though LBK is right, this sounds like an AYSF (sorry Asteriktos).

This is great advice... that is, if he has a trusted spiritual father to ask  Smiley

Should you only learn to skydive with an instructor if you have a particularly trusted one to ask?

Btw, he does.

Part of the problem is that most people don't have spiritual fathers. Some are lucky if they get to talk to their priest at all except in a 4 minute long confessions. This lack of spiritual fathers is why, in 19th century Russia, St. Ignatius said that some people would have to rely on books for advice. The 21st century version of that (for better or worse) is the internet.

But if he does have a spiritual father, then all of this is meaningless, as he should consult him rather than relying on what some guy with a name like asteriktos says.  Grin
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2012, 07:37:06 PM »

I know that it sounds really silly, but after watching Star Wars again, and seeing how wise and powerful Master Yoda was with the Force, it has given me a boost of morale in my spiritual life to become deified. I really want to see the Uncreated Light and enter into that blissful state of Heaven like our Saints have in their earthly lives, and develop those great powers to be able to heal people and work miracles.

What is the first step in 'coming-back to God'? The past few months I have not really been the best. I haven't prayed in at least a month, I still keep masturbating and looking at porn etc and just neglecting my religious duties. I have the motivation to get back on track, but I don't know how. I was thinking that maybe I should try to start praying again and then take it from there.

Mark my words, I will see the Uncreated Light someday
My Godfather saw the Uncreated Light after a serious fall. After he was chrismated, he got prideful and self confident in his spiritual progress, and fell into fornication as a result. After a very disturbing spiritual experience and serious temptations to give up on himself, he dropped everything and went to a monastery. There he saw the Uncreated Light while he was in a state of serious repentance and spiritual danger. Other people have seen the Tabor Light after living in a cave for 40 years. God is not a combination lock. You do not receive his grace by finding the right combination. Another person in my Godfather's shoes could have been possessed, left the church, or lost hope, and someone could live in a cave their whole life and not see the Uncreated Light until after death. Go about your spiritual life dispassionately, with faith, hope, and love -- without forcing it -- and who knows what will come.

But you should totally start praying again. Don't let the porn keep you down. Get up every time and ask forgiveness, even if the devil tells you, you don't mean it. I struggle with it too.

Peace to you in XC,
Mikhael
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« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2012, 08:24:24 PM »

I know that it sounds really silly, but after watching Star Wars again, and seeing how wise and powerful Master Yoda was with the Force, it has given me a boost of morale in my spiritual life to become deified. I really want to see the Uncreated Light and enter into that blissful state of Heaven like our Saints have in their earthly lives, and develop those great powers to be able to heal people and work miracles.

What is the first step in 'coming-back to God'? The past few months I have not really been the best. I haven't prayed in at least a month, I still keep masturbating and looking at porn etc and just neglecting my religious duties. I have the motivation to get back on track, but I don't know how. I was thinking that maybe I should try to start praying again and then take it from there.

Mark my words, I will see the Uncreated Light someday
My Godfather saw the Uncreated Light after a serious fall. After he was chrismated, he got prideful and self confident in his spiritual progress, and fell into fornication as a result. After a very disturbing spiritual experience and serious temptations to give up on himself, he dropped everything and went to a monastery. There he saw the Uncreated Light while he was in a state of serious repentance and spiritual danger. Other people have seen the Tabor Light after living in a cave for 40 years. God is not a combination lock. You do not receive his grace by finding the right combination. Another person in my Godfather's shoes could have been possessed, left the church, or lost hope, and someone could live in a cave their whole life and not see the Uncreated Light until after death. Go about your spiritual life dispassionately, with faith, hope, and love -- without forcing it -- and who knows what will come.

But you should totally start praying again. Don't let the porn keep you down. Get up every time and ask forgiveness, even if the devil tells you, you don't mean it. I struggle with it too.

Peace to you in XC,
Mikhael

Great post.
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« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2012, 05:57:26 PM »

Rule one about the uncreated light: don't try to see the uncreated light.

A common thread throughout the lives of various saints and elders is that they prayed NOT to have visions. Faith without vision is all the stronger. Seeking to be "wise" and "see the uncreated light" is pride. I've thought it myself. That may sound judgemental, but it's better to say it outright and not skirt the issue.

Furthermore, it is spiritually dangerous. You may see light, you may see visions, but they will likely not be from God, if we are to trust what the fathers of the Church tell us.
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« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2012, 10:39:21 AM »

Rule one about the uncreated light: don't try to see the uncreated light.

A common thread throughout the lives of various saints and elders is that they prayed NOT to have visions. Faith without vision is all the stronger. Seeking to be "wise" and "see the uncreated light" is pride. I've thought it myself. That may sound judgemental, but it's better to say it outright and not skirt the issue.

Furthermore, it is spiritually dangerous. You may see light, you may see visions, but they will likely not be from God, if we are to trust what the fathers of the Church tell us.
For even the devil can masquerade as an angel of light.
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Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2012, 06:02:17 PM »

I'd like to have the desire to at least make a start in repenting over the glaring sins I repeat all the time.
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