Author Topic: Concerning John 15:20-25  (Read 210 times)

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Offline Justin Kissel

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Concerning John 15:20-25
« on: August 31, 2012, 07:04:27 PM »
"Remember what I told you: A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: They hated me without reason." (John 15:20-25)

What do you make of this passage? Does it make a case of ignorance being a valid excuse for some sins, or at least a mitigating factor?

Offline Hinterlander

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Re: Concerning John 15:20-25
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2012, 11:27:49 PM »
I'm no expert but doesn't this particular verse have to deal with the Jews rejecting their Savior and therefore God?

Maybe a better verse Paul's sermon in Acts 17 comes to mind, at the end verses 30-31.  Also look at Romans 1:18-32.

Offline witega

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Re: Concerning John 15:20-25
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2012, 12:01:04 AM »
"Remember what I told you: A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: They hated me without reason." (John 15:20-25)

What do you make of this passage? Does it make a case of ignorance being a valid excuse for some sins, or at least a mitigating factor?

"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Between the two passages, I don't know how to avoid the conclusion that ignorance can be a mitigating factor when it comes to Divine Justice.
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For it were better to suffer everything, rather than divide the Church of God. Even martyrdom for the sake of preventing division would not be less glorious than for refusing to worship idols. - St. Dionysius the Great