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Author Topic: How to Drive Out Demons  (Read 1908 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: August 29, 2012, 02:55:14 PM »

How to Drive Out Demons:
Results from a new survey of 170 self-professed North American exorcists.

69% never or almost never have the demonized person or a guardian sign a consent form.
99% always or almost always use the name of Jesus in casting out demons.
96% believe that a mature Christian can always or almost always command demons in Jesus'  name.
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« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2012, 04:36:00 PM »

"Self-professed"? Sounds like 170 people have watched too many horror movies.

I wonder how many of the people they exorcize are actually demon-possessed. And of those, how many of them are actually healed.

It's kind of odd that only 1/3 of them use a cross.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 04:36:45 PM by age234 » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2012, 05:09:45 PM »

I think in many cases people are going through a psychosis of some kind....

Then there are the types when they enter the church, the entire church turns black behind them.
(This is something I personally witnessed as an altar boy)

Then the priest cast out the demon after he walked around the man exorcising him.
The blackness left.

The man trembled, ran out side, and came back in with the blackness again.   The priest asked him to leave.

**True Story**
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« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2012, 07:11:48 PM »

"Self-professed"? Sounds like 170 people have watched too many horror movies.
For a moment, I thought it read "self-possessed".
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« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2012, 09:05:29 PM »

I think in many cases people are going through a psychosis of some kind....

Then there are the types when they enter the church, the entire church turns black behind them.
(This is something I personally witnessed as an altar boy)

Then the priest cast out the demon after he walked around the man exorcising him.
The blackness left.

The man trembled, ran out side, and came back in with the blackness again.   The priest asked him to leave.

**True Story**

"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.



"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 09:05:58 PM by Nikolaostheservant » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2012, 09:11:19 PM »

A demon is a supernatural, often malevolent being prevalent in religion, occultism, literature, and folklore. The original Greek word daimon does not carry the negative connotation initially understood by implementation of the Koine δαιμόνιον (daimonion), and later ascribed to any cognate words sharing the root.

In Ancient Near Eastern religions as well as in the Abrahamic traditions, including ancient and medieval Christian demonology, a demon is considered an unclean spirit which may cause demonic possession, calling for an exorcism. In Western occultism and Renaissance magic, which grew out of an amalgamation of Greco-Roman magic, Jewish demonology, and Christian tradition, a demon is a spiritual entity that may be conjured and controlled.
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« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2012, 09:54:22 PM »

If your exorcism should require a consent form, you'really probably doing something cultish.
.
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« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2012, 10:13:39 PM »

I think in many cases people are going through a psychosis of some kind....

Then there are the types when they enter the church, the entire church turns black behind them.
(This is something I personally witnessed as an altar boy)

Then the priest cast out the demon after he walked around the man exorcising him.
The blackness left.

The man trembled, ran out side, and came back in with the blackness again.   The priest asked him to leave.

**True Story**

"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.



"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.

I was standing in the altar area on one of the side doors with two other altar boys.  The man walks into the church during vespers.  I kid you not it was a WALL of blackness behind him.  Everything the man walked past, turned into black.  Not just shadowy, like if all light ceased to exist behind him.  There were a grand total of about 10 people in the church, and it was a larger church building.

He walked past other parishoners and I could not see them.  The choir director (female) screamed and was only a few feet from being engulfed by the blackness.   All of us altar boys looked and one kids freaked out and started crying.  I sat there stunned watching. The priest turns around and sees the blackness behind the man.   Then walks around the man performing an exorcism.  Yes, walking THROUGH the blackness, and the priest later said he could not see until he exited the blackness.

Then upon completion of the exorcism, the blackness rapidly left the church (I did not see it leave because I shut my eyes when the priest vanished).  I opened them again when I heard running... It was the man running out of the church.  A short while later, he re-enters the church with the blackness behind him again, and the priest told him to leave.

True story, I kid you not.   No reason to make this stuff up.   One of the scariest events of my life.   Everybody in attendance that night talked about it for a long time.   Everybody in attendance also wanted to go into private prayer together after the event which we did.  The psalms were chanted for the Lord to watch over us.    Scariest freaking stuff ever...
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2012, 10:27:25 PM »

WoW! Truly scary. Im afraid i would not have seen anything as i would be hiding behind the altar. Brave Priest, btw.
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« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2012, 11:09:52 PM »

When I was a child I remember having an experience where it was really late at night and dark, I was lying in my bed and the room was pitch black. To this very day I still do not remember whether I was dreaming or if it was real. It felt so vivid. Anyhow, I saw three humanoid, shadowy figures standing in front of me, each with red eyes. I was sweating and crying. One of them came really close to me, its face like one foot away from my face, and I remember thinking something religious and then just 'waking up' and when I 'woke up' the room looked the same but they were gone. To this day I do not know what it was, whether it was a dream or whether it was real.
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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2012, 11:16:17 PM »

I think in many cases people are going through a psychosis of some kind....

Then there are the types when they enter the church, the entire church turns black behind them.
(This is something I personally witnessed as an altar boy)

Then the priest cast out the demon after he walked around the man exorcising him.
The blackness left.

The man trembled, ran out side, and came back in with the blackness again.   The priest asked him to leave.

**True Story**

"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.



"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.

I was standing in the altar area on one of the side doors with two other altar boys.  The man walks into the church during vespers.  I kid you not it was a WALL of blackness behind him.  Everything the man walked past, turned into black.  Not just shadowy, like if all light ceased to exist behind him.  There were a grand total of about 10 people in the church, and it was a larger church building.

He walked past other parishoners and I could not see them.  The choir director (female) screamed and was only a few feet from being engulfed by the blackness.   All of us altar boys looked and one kids freaked out and started crying.  I sat there stunned watching. The priest turns around and sees the blackness behind the man.   Then walks around the man performing an exorcism.  Yes, walking THROUGH the blackness, and the priest later said he could not see until he exited the blackness.

Then upon completion of the exorcism, the blackness rapidly left the church (I did not see it leave because I shut my eyes when the priest vanished).  I opened them again when I heard running... It was the man running out of the church.  A short while later, he re-enters the church with the blackness behind him again, and the priest told him to leave.

True story, I kid you not.   No reason to make this stuff up.   One of the scariest events of my life.   Everybody in attendance that night talked about it for a long time.   Everybody in attendance also wanted to go into private prayer together after the event which we did.  The psalms were chanted for the Lord to watch over us.    Scariest freaking stuff ever...

Scary!!!!

So, did anyone know this man?  Why was he there?  Anyone ever see him again?

What of the people who were standing in the back and got engulfed in the darkness....what did they say?  They must of been terrified.

I always wonder how "evil" can enter a church.  IIRC, St. Mary of Egypt was "stopped" at the door of a church and could not enter.  This is what made her repent and go in to the desert.  So, how come evil can so freely enter a church?  You would hope folks would be safe inside from all that nastiness.

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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2012, 12:55:46 AM »

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I kid you not it was a WALL of blackness behind him.


I've seen something like this myself many years ago in my very young idealistic Jesus People pre Orthodoxy days. It was not a wall of pitch darkness per se…but a place that felt very bad…weird and the light was very dim. I prayed then as I had been taught and rebuked whatever it was in the name of Jesus and in that instant the shadows just leapt back against the walls.  A close friend of mine back then had an encounter of the room full of darkness kind..rebuked it and suddenly it vanished and room was filled with natural moonlight.  It is creepy, no doubt.

After I became Orthodox I sometimes had nightmares with those same scary eery feelings but I put icons in my room, cross my bed with "let God arise and His enemies be scattered" each night and committed my sleep to the care of the blessed Theotokos and since then (approaching 20 years) I could probably count on one hand the twingy dreams I've had…and they were not the faintest shadows of the worst ones.

At my present parish on occasion I've seen a couple of mentally disturbed persons visit…one got very agitated…antsy, uncomfortable, hard time standing still…and out the door at the first good opportunity. The other person likes to visit because the "voices" go silent when he is there. It's peaceful for him.
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« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2012, 01:03:30 AM »

When I was a child I remember having an experience where it was really late at night and dark, I was lying in my bed and the room was pitch black. To this very day I still do not remember whether I was dreaming or if it was real. It felt so vivid. Anyhow, I saw three humanoid, shadowy figures standing in front of me, each with red eyes. I was sweating and crying. One of them came really close to me, its face like one foot away from my face, and I remember thinking something religious and then just 'waking up' and when I 'woke up' the room looked the same but they were gone. To this day I do not know what it was, whether it was a dream or whether it was real.

"Sleep paralysis is a phenomenon in which people who are either falling asleep or awakening from sleep temporarily experience a sense of inability to move..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis
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« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2012, 01:09:49 AM »

When I was a child I remember having an experience where it was really late at night and dark, I was lying in my bed and the room was pitch black. To this very day I still do not remember whether I was dreaming or if it was real. It felt so vivid. Anyhow, I saw three humanoid, shadowy figures standing in front of me, each with red eyes. I was sweating and crying. One of them came really close to me, its face like one foot away from my face, and I remember thinking something religious and then just 'waking up' and when I 'woke up' the room looked the same but they were gone. To this day I do not know what it was, whether it was a dream or whether it was real.

"Sleep paralysis is a phenomenon in which people who are either falling asleep or awakening from sleep temporarily experience a sense of inability to move..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

Yeah that was a textbook example of sleep paralysis.
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« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2012, 05:48:54 AM »

So what the Hell does the sleep paralysis have to do with the demonic-looking humanoid beings I saw?
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« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2012, 06:19:10 AM »

So what the Hell does the sleep paralysis have to do with the demonic-looking humanoid beings I saw?

Stories of sleep paralysis often include seeing shadowy figures and feeling like you are being held down.
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« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2012, 06:25:03 AM »

So what the Hell does the sleep paralysis have to do with the demonic-looking humanoid beings I saw?

This "sleep" part...
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« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2012, 07:04:33 AM »

So what the Hell does the sleep paralysis have to do with the demonic-looking humanoid beings I saw?
Didn't mean to tick you off. I used to have a problem with sleep paralysis myself, your description sounded very familiar. From the article I cited "Hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations are symptoms commonly experienced during episodes of sleep paralysis" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis#Signs_and_symptoms
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« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2012, 10:06:50 AM »

There have been enough church desecrations to show us that evil can enter a church and even defile it.  No problem... as God permits it.

God permits evil, just as He permitted satan to enter His presence in the Book of Job.  But, He does hold satan back.

The difference with St. Mary of Egypt is that she was not 'possessed' but acting out of her free-will.  This the fellow who entered the church, he may not have been possessed but rather in 'fellowship' with the demonic.  He may also have been a case of 'perfect possession,' in which case he was in agreement with the possession and therefore an exorcism would not have worked: the spirits had to right to remain within him.

Only in cases where the person does not utterly agree with the demons will an exorcism work.  People who thrash around or feel 'prevented' from entering a church are those in the midst of this struggle and the demons do not want the person near a church and thus receive freedom.  However, those who are 'perfectly possessed' can enter a church and even take communion.  There's no problem for them because there is no fight.  They have agreed to their own damnation.

But, you cannot confuse human evil with demonic evil.  The whole point of St. Mary's life was her triumph over human evil, and that triumph leads to the defeat of demonically-inspired temptation.


I always wonder how "evil" can enter a church.  IIRC, St. Mary of Egypt was "stopped" at the door of a church and could not enter.  This is what made her repent and go in to the desert.  So, how come evil can so freely enter a church?  You would hope folks would be safe inside from all that nastiness.
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« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2012, 11:35:40 AM »

So what the Hell does the sleep paralysis have to do with the demonic-looking humanoid beings I saw?

This "sleep" part...

Actually you are not asleep.

I've posted on this around here before (in response to JamesR going on about "lucid dreaming" I believe). Indeed, "shadowy" figures or "threatening blackness" is pretty much par for the course.

I've had two or three episodes of it.

The first was quite frightening.
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« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2012, 11:36:57 AM »

NVM
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« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2012, 03:01:49 PM »

Stories of sleep paralysis often include seeing shadowy figures and feeling like you are being held down.

Ex friends experienced this, but I had hard time believing them.

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« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2012, 04:13:04 PM »

So what the Hell does the sleep paralysis have to do with the demonic-looking humanoid beings I saw?
Didn't mean to tick you off. I used to have a problem with sleep paralysis myself, your description sounded very familiar. From the article I cited "Hypnagogic and hypnopompic hallucinations are symptoms commonly experienced during episodes of sleep paralysis" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis#Signs_and_symptoms
Sleep paralysis may also be behind claims of alien abductions.
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« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2012, 07:10:08 PM »

So what the Hell does the sleep paralysis have to do with the demonic-looking humanoid beings I saw?

This "sleep" part...

Actually you are not asleep.

I've posted on this around here before (in response to JamesR going on about "lucid dreaming" I believe). Indeed, "shadowy" figures or "threatening blackness" is pretty much par for the course.

I've had two or three episodes of it.

The first was quite frightening.

No, but dreaming, which is often associated with 'sleeping' is.
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« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2012, 07:31:46 PM »

Stories of sleep paralysis often include seeing shadowy figures and feeling like you are being held down.

Ex friends experienced this, but I had hard time believing them.


BTDT, it can be very frightening. I would freq believe I was going to die if i went back to deep sleep.
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« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2012, 10:41:00 PM »

So I was looking into this sleep paralysis stuff and I have to say it is really frightening, yet somewhat relieving because I now know that all of these frightening episodes I had in the past were not real.
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« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2012, 10:44:02 PM »


Who says they aren't real?

Perhaps during the episode the person sees what is there, but usually remains unseen.

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« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2012, 10:51:32 PM »

So I was looking into this sleep paralysis stuff and I have to say it is really frightening, yet somewhat relieving because I now know that all of these frightening episodes I had in the past were not real.
Once I learned about it I had fewer episodes and they became less frightening.
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« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2012, 11:25:56 PM »

So I was looking into this sleep paralysis stuff and I have to say it is really frightening, yet somewhat relieving because I now know that all of these frightening episodes I had in the past were not real.
Depends on how you define "real".
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« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2012, 01:25:11 AM »

So I was looking into this sleep paralysis stuff and I have to say it is really frightening, yet somewhat relieving because I now know that all of these frightening episodes I had in the past were not real.
Depends on how you define "real".

Everything is real. The question is: A real what?
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« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2012, 09:01:19 AM »


Who says they aren't real?

Perhaps during the episode the person sees what is there, but usually remains unseen.


Agreed.  Non-religious people have always tried to find natural excuses for the supernatural, even if they have to make stuff up.  As it is often said, the best tool that the Devil has is to convince us that he is not there.
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« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2012, 09:32:52 AM »

And some folks are always eager to believe anything unusual must be a paranormal event.
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« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2012, 12:07:14 PM »

When I was a younger man I would on occasion have sleep paralysis. The sensation is very unnerving…a feeling of malevolent threat in close proximity. The mind is awake…or seems awake, but nothing works. You can't open your eyes, roll over, move in anyway….just lie there locked in your head feeling something evil you can't see is watching and might easily decide to hurt you while you are helpless.

I was not Orthodox at the time and would be mentally chain praying "Lord help, Jesus help me" or variations thereof all the while concentrating on moving my hand. At some point I could feel my little finger twitch and then it was like glass shattering…I would fully wake up…like a shot. 

The sensation was interesting to me though in that when "awake" but paralyzed I seemed fully conscious to myself, yet when I awoke fully, my former state of "consciousness" seemed as much like sleep than being awake. Since then I've wondered if death is like that…waking up for real from a seeming fully conscious state to one that really is so.
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« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2012, 01:12:56 PM »

So I was looking into this sleep paralysis stuff and I have to say it is really frightening, yet somewhat relieving because I now know that all of these frightening episodes I had in the past were not real.
Once I learned about it I had fewer episodes and they became less frightening.

Weird. I meant to write just this in my post above.
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« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2012, 06:33:05 PM »

So I was looking into this sleep paralysis stuff and I have to say it is really frightening, yet somewhat relieving because I now know that all of these frightening episodes I had in the past were not real.
Once I learned about it I had fewer episodes and they became less frightening.

Weird. I meant to write just this in my post above.
i'm sure there's a paranormal explanation for that. Wink
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« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2012, 03:53:32 AM »

There have been enough church desecrations to show us that evil can enter a church and even defile it.  No problem... as God permits it.

God permits evil, just as He permitted satan to enter His presence in the Book of Job.  But, He does hold satan back.

The difference with St. Mary of Egypt is that she was not 'possessed' but acting out of her free-will.  This the fellow who entered the church, he may not have been possessed but rather in 'fellowship' with the demonic.  He may also have been a case of 'perfect possession,' in which case he was in agreement with the possession and therefore an exorcism would not have worked: the spirits had to right to remain within him.

Only in cases where the person does not utterly agree with the demons will an exorcism work.  People who thrash around or feel 'prevented' from entering a church are those in the midst of this struggle and the demons do not want the person near a church and thus receive freedom.  However, those who are 'perfectly possessed' can enter a church and even take communion.  There's no problem for them because there is no fight.  They have agreed to their own damnation.

But, you cannot confuse human evil with demonic evil.  The whole point of St. Mary's life was her triumph over human evil, and that triumph leads to the defeat of demonically-inspired temptation.


I always wonder how "evil" can enter a church.  IIRC, St. Mary of Egypt was "stopped" at the door of a church and could not enter.  This is what made her repent and go in to the desert.  So, how come evil can so freely enter a church?  You would hope folks would be safe inside from all that nastiness.

Father bless. Excellent explanation. Possession only succeeds when at least some part of the victim's will desires spiritual liberation. On the other hand, it seems that even those who are "perfectly possessed" are not without hope. To say there is no hope for them is to concede that satan is stronger than God, which is impossible. Perhaps even those who are perfectly possessed, there still remains a small fragment of their volition that is able to choose good over evil?


Selam
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« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2012, 04:36:26 AM »

Is it natural during sleep paralysis for your mind to interpret things inside of your bedroom in a different way? For example, one morning when waking up I was having an episode of sleep paralysis and I thought I saw one of my friends visiting standing in my room, and upon further waking up, I realized that it was only just a jacket hanging from the coat hanger.
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« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2012, 05:06:47 AM »

Is it natural during sleep paralysis for your mind to interpret things inside of your bedroom in a different way? For example, one morning when waking up I was having an episode of sleep paralysis and I thought I saw one of my friends visiting standing in my room, and upon further waking up, I realized that it was only just a jacket hanging from the coat hanger.

Yes, very normal.
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« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2012, 05:12:34 AM »

Is it natural during sleep paralysis for your mind to interpret things inside of your bedroom in a different way? For example, one morning when waking up I was having an episode of sleep paralysis and I thought I saw one of my friends visiting standing in my room, and upon further waking up, I realized that it was only just a jacket hanging from the coat hanger.
Man do I hate that crap.
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« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2012, 10:58:49 AM »

There is no hope without God.

There have been enough church desecrations to show us that evil can enter a church and even defile it.  No problem... as God permits it.

God permits evil, just as He permitted satan to enter His presence in the Book of Job.  But, He does hold satan back.

The difference with St. Mary of Egypt is that she was not 'possessed' but acting out of her free-will.  This the fellow who entered the church, he may not have been possessed but rather in 'fellowship' with the demonic.  He may also have been a case of 'perfect possession,' in which case he was in agreement with the possession and therefore an exorcism would not have worked: the spirits had to right to remain within him.

Only in cases where the person does not utterly agree with the demons will an exorcism work.  People who thrash around or feel 'prevented' from entering a church are those in the midst of this struggle and the demons do not want the person near a church and thus receive freedom.  However, those who are 'perfectly possessed' can enter a church and even take communion.  There's no problem for them because there is no fight.  They have agreed to their own damnation.

But, you cannot confuse human evil with demonic evil.  The whole point of St. Mary's life was her triumph over human evil, and that triumph leads to the defeat of demonically-inspired temptation.


I always wonder how "evil" can enter a church.  IIRC, St. Mary of Egypt was "stopped" at the door of a church and could not enter.  This is what made her repent and go in to the desert.  So, how come evil can so freely enter a church?  You would hope folks would be safe inside from all that nastiness.

Father bless. Excellent explanation. Possession only succeeds when at least some part of the victim's will desires spiritual liberation. On the other hand, it seems that even those who are "perfectly possessed" are not without hope. To say there is no hope for them is to concede that satan is stronger than God, which is impossible. Perhaps even those who are perfectly possessed, there still remains a small fragment of their volition that is able to choose good over evil?


Selam
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« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2012, 02:38:00 PM »

Is it natural during sleep paralysis for your mind to interpret things inside of your bedroom in a different way? For example, one morning when waking up I was having an episode of sleep paralysis and I thought I saw one of my friends visiting standing in my room, and upon further waking up, I realized that it was only just a jacket hanging from the coat hanger.
Yes. If your eyes were partially open during the episode you could see part of your room, which you know is real, and caused you to further misinterpret what you saw.
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« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2012, 01:19:41 PM »

When I was a child I remember having an experience where it was really late at night and dark, I was lying in my bed and the room was pitch black. To this very day I still do not remember whether I was dreaming or if it was real. It felt so vivid. Anyhow, I saw three humanoid, shadowy figures standing in front of me, each with red eyes. I was sweating and crying. One of them came really close to me, its face like one foot away from my face, and I remember thinking something religious and then just 'waking up' and when I 'woke up' the room looked the same but they were gone. To this day I do not know what it was, whether it was a dream or whether it was real.

"Sleep paralysis is a phenomenon in which people who are either falling asleep or awakening from sleep temporarily experience a sense of inability to move..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

Yeah I've had bouts of sleep paralysis, combined with, at the same time, night terrors.  There are a few instances where, to this very day, I could not tell you if it really was the sleep paralysis or something truly spiritual in nature... regardless, either way, it's FREAKY when it happens.
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« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2012, 07:08:58 PM »

So I was looking into this sleep paralysis stuff and I have to say it is really frightening, yet somewhat relieving because I now know that all of these frightening episodes I had in the past were not real.

I used to have sleep paralysis quite alot , It was always scary, but I always new that I was sleeping and just couldn't wake completely.

Maybe the first time it was worse, I do not remember now, but if you never hAD it before it will be worse that first time.

After I had it for a while I knew what it was, never had a diagnosis by a doctor though, and would struggle to wake myself up, which usually happens in a minute or two.
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« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2012, 09:49:20 PM »

I frequently get sleep paralysis. I feel like I'm suffocating and like someone could kill me, although I don't specifically recall ever hallucinating. Since I know what it is, I just twiddle my thumbs while the involuntary panic subsides, except I can't actually twiddle them.
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« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2012, 11:56:38 PM »

I think in many cases people are going through a psychosis of some kind....

Then there are the types when they enter the church, the entire church turns black behind them.
(This is something I personally witnessed as an altar boy)

Then the priest cast out the demon after he walked around the man exorcising him.
The blackness left.

The man trembled, ran out side, and came back in with the blackness again.   The priest asked him to leave.

**True Story**

"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.



"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.

I was standing in the altar area on one of the side doors with two other altar boys.  The man walks into the church during vespers.  I kid you not it was a WALL of blackness behind him.  Everything the man walked past, turned into black.  Not just shadowy, like if all light ceased to exist behind him.  There were a grand total of about 10 people in the church, and it was a larger church building.

He walked past other parishoners and I could not see them.  The choir director (female) screamed and was only a few feet from being engulfed by the blackness.   All of us altar boys looked and one kids freaked out and started crying.  I sat there stunned watching. The priest turns around and sees the blackness behind the man.   Then walks around the man performing an exorcism.  Yes, walking THROUGH the blackness, and the priest later said he could not see until he exited the blackness.

Then upon completion of the exorcism, the blackness rapidly left the church (I did not see it leave because I shut my eyes when the priest vanished).  I opened them again when I heard running... It was the man running out of the church.  A short while later, he re-enters the church with the blackness behind him again, and the priest told him to leave.

True story, I kid you not.   No reason to make this stuff up.   One of the scariest events of my life.   Everybody in attendance that night talked about it for a long time.   Everybody in attendance also wanted to go into private prayer together after the event which we did.  The psalms were chanted for the Lord to watch over us.    Scariest freaking stuff ever...

Scary!!!!

So, did anyone know this man?  Why was he there?  Anyone ever see him again?

What of the people who were standing in the back and got engulfed in the darkness....what did they say?  They must of been terrified.

I always wonder how "evil" can enter a church.  IIRC, St. Mary of Egypt was "stopped" at the door of a church and could not enter.  This is what made her repent and go in to the desert.  So, how come evil can so freely enter a church?  You would hope folks would be safe inside from all that nastiness.



The parishoners who were in the blackness could not see, so they sat down on the pew (this church use to be Lutheran, but the EO bought it and left the pews).   They saw the blackness leave.  YES they were terrified.  The man turned out to be the "crazy" brother of another parishoner who was not attending.  She told he needed to come to her church.

I really don't know how evil entered the church.   I don't know anything other than when you see something like this, you KNOW there is good and evil and all the atheist stuff you just end up feeling bad for them.  I was so terrified from this and am still today.   I'm surprised the lady in the choir came back.  Was probably the scariest moment of my life.   The shriek that woman screamed.

What was really interesting though is that the priest just knew what to do immediately.   Vespers STOPPED and he took care of business pronto.   

I know it sounds wacky, but its for real, witnessed by everybody in the church.
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« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2012, 12:00:18 AM »

Quote
I kid you not it was a WALL of blackness behind him.


I've seen something like this myself many years ago in my very young idealistic Jesus People pre Orthodoxy days. It was not a wall of pitch darkness per se…but a place that felt very bad…weird and the light was very dim. I prayed then as I had been taught and rebuked whatever it was in the name of Jesus and in that instant the shadows just leapt back against the walls.  A close friend of mine back then had an encounter of the room full of darkness kind..rebuked it and suddenly it vanished and room was filled with natural moonlight.  It is creepy, no doubt.

After I became Orthodox I sometimes had nightmares with those same scary eery feelings but I put icons in my room, cross my bed with "let God arise and His enemies be scattered" each night and committed my sleep to the care of the blessed Theotokos and since then (approaching 20 years) I could probably count on one hand the twingy dreams I've had…and they were not the faintest shadows of the worst ones.

At my present parish on occasion I've seen a couple of mentally disturbed persons visit…one got very agitated…antsy, uncomfortable, hard time standing still…and out the door at the first good opportunity. The other person likes to visit because the "voices" go silent when he is there. It's peaceful for him.

It's actually creepy to hear of something similar to what happened at my church.  Interestingly, "let God arise, let his enemies be scattered" is part of the Orthodox exorcism.

What do you mean by "voices" go silent when he is there?
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« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2012, 12:09:08 AM »

There have been enough church desecrations to show us that evil can enter a church and even defile it.  No problem... as God permits it.

God permits evil, just as He permitted satan to enter His presence in the Book of Job.  But, He does hold satan back.

The difference with St. Mary of Egypt is that she was not 'possessed' but acting out of her free-will.  This the fellow who entered the church, he may not have been possessed but rather in 'fellowship' with the demonic.  He may also have been a case of 'perfect possession,' in which case he was in agreement with the possession and therefore an exorcism would not have worked: the spirits had to right to remain within him.

Only in cases where the person does not utterly agree with the demons will an exorcism work.  People who thrash around or feel 'prevented' from entering a church are those in the midst of this struggle and the demons do not want the person near a church and thus receive freedom.  However, those who are 'perfectly possessed' can enter a church and even take communion.  There's no problem for them because there is no fight.  They have agreed to their own damnation.

But, you cannot confuse human evil with demonic evil.  The whole point of St. Mary's life was her triumph over human evil, and that triumph leads to the defeat of demonically-inspired temptation.


I always wonder how "evil" can enter a church.  IIRC, St. Mary of Egypt was "stopped" at the door of a church and could not enter.  This is what made her repent and go in to the desert.  So, how come evil can so freely enter a church?  You would hope folks would be safe inside from all that nastiness.

Father bless. Excellent explanation. Possession only succeeds when at least some part of the victim's will desires spiritual liberation. On the other hand, it seems that even those who are "perfectly possessed" are not without hope. To say there is no hope for them is to concede that satan is stronger than God, which is impossible. Perhaps even those who are perfectly possessed, there still remains a small fragment of their volition that is able to choose good over evil?


Selam

I remember the priest saying "It wasn't the fact that he was possessed the bothered me, it was afterwards when he ran out and came back with it again".    I don't know what happened or how he was possessed or anything, I just know it was insanely scary.   Not scary movie scary, but -hmmmm- like hearing glass break, your alarm goes off, and you hear furniture banging around at 2am scary.   Like REALLY terrifying.  Life & Death scary.   Lord have mercy!
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« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2012, 01:18:47 PM »


Wow!

....just, wow!

I pray I never see anything like it.

I am not a thrill seeker! 

Cheesy

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« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2012, 09:44:54 AM »

I think in many cases people are going through a psychosis of some kind....

Then there are the types when they enter the church, the entire church turns black behind them.
(This is something I personally witnessed as an altar boy)

Then the priest cast out the demon after he walked around the man exorcising him.
The blackness left.

The man trembled, ran out side, and came back in with the blackness again.   The priest asked him to leave.

**True Story**

"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.



"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.

I was standing in the altar area on one of the side doors with two other altar boys.  The man walks into the church during vespers.  I kid you not it was a WALL of blackness behind him.  Everything the man walked past, turned into black.  Not just shadowy, like if all light ceased to exist behind him.  There were a grand total of about 10 people in the church, and it was a larger church building.

He walked past other parishoners and I could not see them.  The choir director (female) screamed and was only a few feet from being engulfed by the blackness.   All of us altar boys looked and one kids freaked out and started crying.  I sat there stunned watching. The priest turns around and sees the blackness behind the man.   Then walks around the man performing an exorcism.  Yes, walking THROUGH the blackness, and the priest later said he could not see until he exited the blackness.

Then upon completion of the exorcism, the blackness rapidly left the church (I did not see it leave because I shut my eyes when the priest vanished).  I opened them again when I heard running... It was the man running out of the church.  A short while later, he re-enters the church with the blackness behind him again, and the priest told him to leave.

True story, I kid you not.   No reason to make this stuff up.   One of the scariest events of my life.   Everybody in attendance that night talked about it for a long time.   Everybody in attendance also wanted to go into private prayer together after the event which we did.  The psalms were chanted for the Lord to watch over us.    Scariest freaking stuff ever...

Scary!!!!

So, did anyone know this man?  Why was he there?  Anyone ever see him again?

What of the people who were standing in the back and got engulfed in the darkness....what did they say?  They must of been terrified.

I always wonder how "evil" can enter a church.  IIRC, St. Mary of Egypt was "stopped" at the door of a church and could not enter.  This is what made her repent and go in to the desert.  So, how come evil can so freely enter a church?  You would hope folks would be safe inside from all that nastiness.



The parishoners who were in the blackness could not see, so they sat down on the pew (this church use to be Lutheran, but the EO bought it and left the pews).   They saw the blackness leave.  YES they were terrified.  The man turned out to be the "crazy" brother of another parishoner who was not attending.  She told he needed to come to her church.

I really don't know how evil entered the church.   I don't know anything other than when you see something like this, you KNOW there is good and evil and all the atheist stuff you just end up feeling bad for them.  I was so terrified from this and am still today.   I'm surprised the lady in the choir came back.  Was probably the scariest moment of my life.   The shriek that woman screamed.

What was really interesting though is that the priest just knew what to do immediately.   Vespers STOPPED and he took care of business pronto.   

I know it sounds wacky, but its for real, witnessed by everybody in the church.

Why did the devil/demon reveal that event ? I guess since the church had believers at the same time God allowed it to strength the faith of some ? ? ?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 09:45:37 AM by psalm110 » Logged
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« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2012, 04:36:54 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

How to Drive Out Demons:


(1) Fasting? Check.

(2) Prayer? Check. 

sounds good to me, rinse and repeat regularly Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2012, 09:57:52 PM »

I think in many cases people are going through a psychosis of some kind....

Then there are the types when they enter the church, the entire church turns black behind them.
(This is something I personally witnessed as an altar boy)

Then the priest cast out the demon after he walked around the man exorcising him.
The blackness left.

The man trembled, ran out side, and came back in with the blackness again.   The priest asked him to leave.

**True Story**

"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.



"entire church turns black behind them"<----what exactly does that mean? curious.

I was standing in the altar area on one of the side doors with two other altar boys.  The man walks into the church during vespers.  I kid you not it was a WALL of blackness behind him.  Everything the man walked past, turned into black.  Not just shadowy, like if all light ceased to exist behind him.  There were a grand total of about 10 people in the church, and it was a larger church building.

He walked past other parishoners and I could not see them.  The choir director (female) screamed and was only a few feet from being engulfed by the blackness.   All of us altar boys looked and one kids freaked out and started crying.  I sat there stunned watching. The priest turns around and sees the blackness behind the man.   Then walks around the man performing an exorcism.  Yes, walking THROUGH the blackness, and the priest later said he could not see until he exited the blackness.

Then upon completion of the exorcism, the blackness rapidly left the church (I did not see it leave because I shut my eyes when the priest vanished).  I opened them again when I heard running... It was the man running out of the church.  A short while later, he re-enters the church with the blackness behind him again, and the priest told him to leave.

True story, I kid you not.   No reason to make this stuff up.   One of the scariest events of my life.   Everybody in attendance that night talked about it for a long time.   Everybody in attendance also wanted to go into private prayer together after the event which we did.  The psalms were chanted for the Lord to watch over us.    Scariest freaking stuff ever...

Scary!!!!

So, did anyone know this man?  Why was he there?  Anyone ever see him again?

What of the people who were standing in the back and got engulfed in the darkness....what did they say?  They must of been terrified.

I always wonder how "evil" can enter a church.  IIRC, St. Mary of Egypt was "stopped" at the door of a church and could not enter.  This is what made her repent and go in to the desert.  So, how come evil can so freely enter a church?  You would hope folks would be safe inside from all that nastiness.



The parishoners who were in the blackness could not see, so they sat down on the pew (this church use to be Lutheran, but the EO bought it and left the pews).   They saw the blackness leave.  YES they were terrified.  The man turned out to be the "crazy" brother of another parishoner who was not attending.  She told he needed to come to her church.

I really don't know how evil entered the church.   I don't know anything other than when you see something like this, you KNOW there is good and evil and all the atheist stuff you just end up feeling bad for them.  I was so terrified from this and am still today.   I'm surprised the lady in the choir came back.  Was probably the scariest moment of my life.   The shriek that woman screamed.

What was really interesting though is that the priest just knew what to do immediately.   Vespers STOPPED and he took care of business pronto.   

I know it sounds wacky, but its for real, witnessed by everybody in the church.

Why did the devil/demon reveal that event ? I guess since the church had believers at the same time God allowed it to strength the faith of some ? ? ?

I have absolutely no idea how it all works....  All I know is that it was terrifying.  I was about 12 years old when it happened.  Scared the entire church congregation.   
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« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2012, 10:19:26 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

How to Drive Out Demons:


(1) Fasting? Check.

(2) Prayer? Check. 

sounds good to me, rinse and repeat regularly Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie

So true brother habte selassie... Smiley

You know that icon, upon looking at it seems so basic.... (Jesus points and "bye bye") Coupled with the thing I witnessed, the implementation of exorcism is amazing.

This event is one of those things where I just feel bad for atheists.   This stuff is FOR REAL.
I have witnessed in my life 2 major events of what some would call "paranormal", then some other things.

1) I witnessed an angel with my brother, and we still talk of it to this date
2) The event I described in this thread

The other stuff was several weeping icons. 

but anyway, just like that icon, the priest said "Let God Arise, let his enemies be scattered".


Video of an Orthodox exorcism from a great movie - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6CM0dYRsm4&feature=relmfu
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« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2012, 12:23:36 AM »

This is a very interesting and important thread.

I have a question. How should we respond to someone who tells us they think they are possessed by demons? Obviously we tell them to find a Priest, be baptized, go to Confession, and receive the Sacraments. But should we simply give them that advice and then remove ourselves from any further conversation? On the one hand, if we continue to talk with them we may be engaging the demons themelves. But on the other hand, if the person is emotionally or psychologically disturbed - or perhaps despondent and depressed because they feel unloved - then it may be very cruel to ignore their plight and turn our backs on them. And especially if someone feels very hurt by Christians or by a negative experience with the Church, then if we simply advise them to go see a Priest without trying to also help them ourselves, then that may push them over the edge. Yet, then again, if we presume to be able to help them with our own advice or our own attempts to love them, then we may be falling into the demonic trap of pride.

Well, that's a handful to wrestle with, but I'd be very interested in everyone's thoughts and opinions. I'd especially like to hear from our resident Priests on this matter.

Thanks.

"Let God arise and let His enemies be scattered!"


Selam
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« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2012, 01:49:12 AM »

Quote
What do you mean by "voices" go silent when he is there?

I don't know exactly. He says he hears voices that say things he doesn't like or want to hear. He is under professional psychological care and takes medication. Still one wonders if it is just "all in his head", then why of all places should an Orthodox Church be a place of peace for him and not like any other…or even his own church (perhaps former or soon to be former church…he's been coming more regularly of late).
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« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2012, 03:15:17 AM »

Quote
I have a question. How should we respond to someone who tells us they think they are possessed by demons?

To a certain extent it is situational. Generally speaking it is probably not a good idea to knowingly engage the demon. First, they are very clever and have a long history of misleading, and manipulating people in ways both subtle and gross. When they are not trying to deceive you outright they try to provoke you into behaving in an unchristian manner…either in anger or in pride and vainglory. Second, most of us are not particularly holy…not as we should be, though you may be certain demons both fear and hate Christians of any degree of spiritual life/depth. It is holiness, especially humility and love in Christ that burns them. Third, as noted most who had such troubles are not "possessed" in any definitive sense, and how much the demon is in control or expressive can be a matter of several degrees, from all but overwhelmed, to sad and creepy, to a little off on this or that thing…it is the person who struggles who needs our kindness and our prayers.  For those, troubled but not too far gone…building a loving relationship over time, inviting them to church, helping make contact with a priest, just being a friend present in person and in prayer can make a great deal of difference. Some, with such help find the strength to push back and reclaim their lives from their tormentor.

I have read…somewhere recently, I forget where, that back in the third or fourth century, one Christian leader went so far as to claim that any Christian who could not cast out a devil was not a true Christian. Of course, what most of us are today is nothing like the saints of that era.

St. Issac the Syrian said that the Christian's heart should burn with love for all creation, including the demons. I have wondered since reading that what avenue of love is even possible to show to them…certainly unless one is deeply holy and graced any sort of engagement other that an exorcism is likely to have unwholesome consequences. As I pondered the idea it seemed to me the only way to show them love was to ignore them.  And this is true not just with those troubled with devils but when we find ourselves tempted as well. If we are tempted by them and we sin…both of us have sinned…us and the one who tempted us….So if we ignore them out of love so that we do not add to their sin by yielding to their temptations, we've done just about all we can do for them. In this light, even exorcism expresses a sort of love…in that expelling them limit's their sin with respect to the person they had invaded. We note even in the NT Christ dealt sternly with them, but not in an overly emotional belligerence. He knew who they were and from when they had fallen. Anyway, this is how it seems to me, and it is possible I may be mistaken on some point or another. Check with a priest.

If one is with a somewhat demonized person, one need not engage the person in deep theological conversations. For laymen who are not well exercised in holiness, the best thing may be to silently pray the Jesus prayer for yourself and for the other person, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon Thy servant."

As a parting thought on the subject I am reminded of an old story…which I do not know if it is true or not or where I first encounter it, though it seems to be set in the time of the desert fathers…or if not then in some similar situation to theirs.

There was once an ancient monastic, a simply godly hermit of many years who bothered no one, and attended to his rule of prayer. It came to pass that a devil came to torment him him, to make noise, knock things around, and otherwise do whatever he could to disturb this old monk's prayer. It went on a long time, but a day came when the devil was in the midst of his harassment when the old monk turned and fixed him with the sign of the cross, then went back to his prayers.  

The devil found it could not move at all and found himself burned by the prayers of the old monk and so pleaded to be set free promising never to bother him again. After a long while the monk turned again to the devil and said, "One condition will I release you. Sing for me the song which the angel sang at their creation."

The devil laughed, and said that he no longer remembered it, besides it would be the death of mortal flesh to hear that song. The old monk returned to his prayers. Once again the devil became agitated and asked to be released promising to not bother him anymore…the monk continued praying.

"If I sing it you will die," said the devil.

"Well, then you can stay there and listen to my prayers until the Lord takes me," said the old monk.

"No," said the devil, "I will try." And with that he began to sing. At first it's voice was raw and shrill and ugly and it stopped and stammered over the words as it tried to recall them. But as it continued, the memory came again, and the words grew stronger and more sure, and the voice found it's pitch and tenor and it sang the song of the morning when all the sons of God sang together, verse after verse throughout the night. And when the dawn came it revealed the old monk laying dead across the feet of a great and glorious angel still singing the great and holy praises of God.


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« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2012, 04:16:28 AM »

Quote
I have a question. How should we respond to someone who tells us they think they are possessed by demons?

To a certain extent it is situational. Generally speaking it is probably not a good idea to knowingly engage the demon. First, they are very clever and have a long history of misleading, and manipulating people in ways both subtle and gross. When they are not trying to deceive you outright they try to provoke you into behaving in an unchristian manner…either in anger or in pride and vainglory. Second, most of us are not particularly holy…not as we should be, though you may be certain demons both fear and hate Christians of any degree of spiritual life/depth. It is holiness, especially humility and love in Christ that burns them. Third, as noted most who had such troubles are not "possessed" in any definitive sense, and how much the demon is in control or expressive can be a matter of several degrees, from all but overwhelmed, to sad and creepy, to a little off on this or that thing…it is the person who struggles who needs our kindness and our prayers.  For those, troubled but not too far gone…building a loving relationship over time, inviting them to church, helping make contact with a priest, just being a friend present in person and in prayer can make a great deal of difference. Some, with such help find the strength to push back and reclaim their lives from their tormentor.

I have read…somewhere recently, I forget where, that back in the third or fourth century, one Christian leader went so far as to claim that any Christian who could not cast out a devil was not a true Christian. Of course, what most of us are today is nothing like the saints of that era.

St. Issac the Syrian said that the Christian's heart should burn with love for all creation, including the demons. I have wondered since reading that what avenue of love is even possible to show to them…certainly unless one is deeply holy and graced any sort of engagement other that an exorcism is likely to have unwholesome consequences. As I pondered the idea it seemed to me the only way to show them love was to ignore them.  And this is true not just with those troubled with devils but when we find ourselves tempted as well. If we are tempted by them and we sin…both of us have sinned…us and the one who tempted us….So if we ignore them out of love so that we do not add to their sin by yielding to their temptations, we've done just about all we can do for them. In this light, even exorcism expresses a sort of love…in that expelling them limit's their sin with respect to the person they had invaded. We note even in the NT Christ dealt sternly with them, but not in an overly emotional belligerence. He knew who they were and from when they had fallen. Anyway, this is how it seems to me, and it is possible I may be mistaken on some point or another. Check with a priest.

If one is with a somewhat demonized person, one need not engage the person in deep theological conversations. For laymen who are not well exercised in holiness, the best thing may be to silently pray the Jesus prayer for yourself and for the other person, "Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon Thy servant."

As a parting thought on the subject I am reminded of an old story…which I do not know if it is true or not or where I first encounter it, though it seems to be set in the time of the desert fathers…or if not then in some similar situation to theirs.

There was once an ancient monastic, a simply godly hermit of many years who bothered no one, and attended to his rule of prayer. It came to pass that a devil came to torment him him, to make noise, knock things around, and otherwise do whatever he could to disturb this old monk's prayer. It went on a long time, but a day came when the devil was in the midst of his harassment when the old monk turned and fixed him with the sign of the cross, then went back to his prayers.  

The devil found it could not move at all and found himself burned by the prayers of the old monk and so pleaded to be set free promising never to bother him again. After a long while the monk turned again to the devil and said, "One condition will I release you. Sing for me the song which the angel sang at their creation."

The devil laughed, and said that he no longer remembered it, besides it would be the death of mortal flesh to hear that song. The old monk returned to his prayers. Once again the devil became agitated and asked to be released promising to not bother him anymore…the monk continued praying.

"If I sing it you will die," said the devil.

"Well, then you can stay there and listen to my prayers until the Lord takes me," said the old monk.

"No," said the devil, "I will try." And with that he began to sing. At first it's voice was raw and shrill and ugly and it stopped and stammered over the words as it tried to recall them. But as it continued, the memory came again, and the words grew stronger and more sure, and the voice found it's pitch and tenor and it sang the song of the morning when all the sons of God sang together, verse after verse throughout the night. And when the dawn came it revealed the old monk laying dead across the feet of a great and glorious angel still singing the great and holy praises of God.





A profound and beautiful answer dear friend. Thank you.



Selam
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« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2012, 08:30:55 AM »

Why do the demons laugh a lot ? What do they find so funny ?
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« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2012, 10:26:06 AM »

It is mockery, not happiness.

A while back, I was helping someone who was being tormented by a demon.  As we said the prayers, the person would describe to me what was going on. 

After a lot of prayer, an angel appeared and 'blocked' the demon.  The angel said nothing, just stood quietly between the demon and the person.  The demon began to 'tease' the angel, kind of like how old friends do, but there was malice in it.  Like a stand-up comedian going after someone in the audience.  The angel ignored him.  The witness said, "Father, he was actually funny, but I know he's really bad at the same time."  Eventually, it was the Virgin Mary, thanks be to God, who intervened.  Even then, it was the demons who put on the big show.  She and the angels were demure, peaceful, almost completely silent.

It is also about getting attention.  Laughter draws our attention.  Demons 'laugh,' but they laugh at us.  They do it to shake our confidence, to 'laugh us to scorn.' 

The truth is they find nothing really funny, because they have no true joy.  In the end, they are miserable.  They can only find pleasure when someone else falls into their torment.  It is a brief moment when envy consumes its prize, then immediately becomes hungry again.


Why do the demons laugh a lot ? What do they find so funny ?
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« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2012, 11:00:28 AM »

This is a very interesting and important thread.

I have a question. How should we respond to someone who tells us they think they are possessed by demons? Obviously we tell them to find a Priest, be baptized, go to Confession, and receive the Sacraments. But should we simply give them that advice and then remove ourselves from any further conversation?
Selam

No, you should also advise them to see a psychiatrist
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« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2012, 11:11:37 AM »

This is a very interesting and important thread.

I have a question. How should we respond to someone who tells us they think they are possessed by demons? Obviously we tell them to find a Priest, be baptized, go to Confession, and receive the Sacraments. But should we simply give them that advice and then remove ourselves from any further conversation?
Selam

No, you should also advise them to see a psychiatrist

In suggesting they see a psychiatrist it would be immensely helpful to advise them to seek one who is, at the *very* least, sympathetic to Christian teachings and is preferably also a practicing Orthodox or Catholic Christian.  That way they (hopefully) won't dismiss the possibility of demonic possession or oppression totally out of hand.
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« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2012, 03:17:24 PM »

It is mockery, not happiness.

A while back, I was helping someone who was being tormented by a demon.  As we said the prayers, the person would describe to me what was going on. 

After a lot of prayer, an angel appeared and 'blocked' the demon.  The angel said nothing, just stood quietly between the demon and the person.  The demon began to 'tease' the angel, kind of like how old friends do, but there was malice in it.  Like a stand-up comedian going after someone in the audience.  The angel ignored him.  The witness said, "Father, he was actually funny, but I know he's really bad at the same time."  Eventually, it was the Virgin Mary, thanks be to God, who intervened.  Even then, it was the demons who put on the big show.  She and the angels were demure, peaceful, almost completely silent.

It is also about getting attention.  Laughter draws our attention.  Demons 'laugh,' but they laugh at us.  They do it to shake our confidence, to 'laugh us to scorn.' 

The truth is they find nothing really funny, because they have no true joy.  In the end, they are miserable.  They can only find pleasure when someone else falls into their torment.  It is a brief moment when envy consumes its prize, then immediately becomes hungry again.


Why do the demons laugh a lot ? What do they find so funny ?

Wait, you saw all this with your own eyes?
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« Reply #61 on: September 07, 2012, 03:25:58 PM »

Read the second sentence.

It is mockery, not happiness.

A while back, I was helping someone who was being tormented by a demon.  As we said the prayers, the person would describe to me what was going on. 

After a lot of prayer, an angel appeared and 'blocked' the demon.  The angel said nothing, just stood quietly between the demon and the person.  The demon began to 'tease' the angel, kind of like how old friends do, but there was malice in it.  Like a stand-up comedian going after someone in the audience.  The angel ignored him.  The witness said, "Father, he was actually funny, but I know he's really bad at the same time."  Eventually, it was the Virgin Mary, thanks be to God, who intervened.  Even then, it was the demons who put on the big show.  She and the angels were demure, peaceful, almost completely silent.

It is also about getting attention.  Laughter draws our attention.  Demons 'laugh,' but they laugh at us.  They do it to shake our confidence, to 'laugh us to scorn.' 

The truth is they find nothing really funny, because they have no true joy.  In the end, they are miserable.  They can only find pleasure when someone else falls into their torment.  It is a brief moment when envy consumes its prize, then immediately becomes hungry again.


Why do the demons laugh a lot ? What do they find so funny ?

Wait, you saw all this with your own eyes?
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« Reply #62 on: September 07, 2012, 04:45:49 PM »

I have, as well as many other things that they do.  Watching one cast out of someone close to you is rather enlightening, as well as frightening.  What is worse, is seeing what happens when that person does not fill his heart with the Holy Spirit, but lets the demons back in.

It is mockery, not happiness.

A while back, I was helping someone who was being tormented by a demon.  As we said the prayers, the person would describe to me what was going on. 

After a lot of prayer, an angel appeared and 'blocked' the demon.  The angel said nothing, just stood quietly between the demon and the person.  The demon began to 'tease' the angel, kind of like how old friends do, but there was malice in it.  Like a stand-up comedian going after someone in the audience.  The angel ignored him.  The witness said, "Father, he was actually funny, but I know he's really bad at the same time."  Eventually, it was the Virgin Mary, thanks be to God, who intervened.  Even then, it was the demons who put on the big show.  She and the angels were demure, peaceful, almost completely silent.

It is also about getting attention.  Laughter draws our attention.  Demons 'laugh,' but they laugh at us.  They do it to shake our confidence, to 'laugh us to scorn.' 

The truth is they find nothing really funny, because they have no true joy.  In the end, they are miserable.  They can only find pleasure when someone else falls into their torment.  It is a brief moment when envy consumes its prize, then immediately becomes hungry again.


Why do the demons laugh a lot ? What do they find so funny ?

Wait, you saw all this with your own eyes?
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« Reply #63 on: September 07, 2012, 09:12:09 PM »

This is a very interesting and important thread.

I have a question. How should we respond to someone who tells us they think they are possessed by demons? Obviously we tell them to find a Priest, be baptized, go to Confession, and receive the Sacraments. But should we simply give them that advice and then remove ourselves from any further conversation?
Selam

No, you should also advise them to see a psychiatrist

In suggesting they see a psychiatrist it would be immensely helpful to advise them to seek one who is, at the *very* least, sympathetic to Christian teachings and is preferably also a practicing Orthodox or Catholic Christian.  That way they (hopefully) won't dismiss the possibility of demonic possession or oppression totally out of hand.

Amen to that. A very important point!


Selam
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« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2012, 12:01:42 AM »

Amen!

I have, as well as many other things that they do.  Watching one cast out of someone close to you is rather enlightening, as well as frightening.  What is worse, is seeing what happens when that person does not fill his heart with the Holy Spirit, but lets the demons back in.
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« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2012, 01:33:50 AM »

When I was a child I remember having an experience where it was really late at night and dark, I was lying in my bed and the room was pitch black. To this very day I still do not remember whether I was dreaming or if it was real. It felt so vivid. Anyhow, I saw three humanoid, shadowy figures standing in front of me, each with red eyes. I was sweating and crying. One of them came really close to me, its face like one foot away from my face, and I remember thinking something religious and then just 'waking up' and when I 'woke up' the room looked the same but they were gone. To this day I do not know what it was, whether it was a dream or whether it was real.
Minus the red eyes I saw one figure as you depict, but I know I was awake.  It knelt into the shadows on the floor and disappeared.  I remember it with fairly large ears, bald and a large nose, unlike anyone I knew.  The only time I was ever too afraid to make a noise even though I tried.  I jumped up and ran to my parents room.
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