Author Topic: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox  (Read 1498 times)

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Offline Anastasia1

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Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« on: August 28, 2012, 11:08:59 PM »
I'm curious how these three churches compare culturally, since as I understand, all speak Arabic.  Also, which is closest to Jewish culture?

(mods, please move if needed.)
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 11:09:13 PM by Anastasia1 »
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Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2012, 11:48:21 PM »
Syriac Church, if I'm not mistaken, uses a syriac translation of the Greek syriac rite liturgy originally translated from syriac but which was lost.

They speak Aramaic and Arabic.

Roman/Greek Antiochian Church uses Greek and Arabic.

Coptic church uses Arabic and Coptic.

All have certain "semitic" cultural practices. I suppose the syriacs are closer to Jews in the sense that they use two semitic languages?
« Last Edit: August 28, 2012, 11:48:35 PM by NicholasMyra »
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Offline Suryoyutho

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Re: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2012, 02:30:47 AM »
The Syriac Orthodox Church uses classical Syriac in liturgy and not Arabic. Some adherents speak Arabic but many speak modern Syriac.

The Antiochian Orthodox also used to use Syriac, even after Chalcedon. Some of them are probably ethnically "Syriac" as well.

Closest to Jewish culture? The Syriac language is probably the closest to Hebrew of the ones mentioned here. But as for the customs/traditions of the peoples today it's hard to say. Abraham is called "the wandering Aramean" though =P.
The Tur Abdin Timeline - A timeline of Tur Abdin (Syriac for "the Mountain of the Servants [of God]"), the heartland of the Syriac Orthodox Christians, a hilly region located in upper Mesopotamia, between the Tigris and Euphrates.

Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 08:58:08 PM »
The Coptic used in Coptic Orthodox services is actually a mix of Coptic and Greek-language prayers. More Coptic than Greek to be sure, but there is a lot of Greek in there :-).

Syriac Church, if I'm not mistaken, uses a syriac translation of the Greek syriac rite liturgy originally translated from syriac but which was lost.

They speak Aramaic and Arabic.

Roman/Greek Antiochian Church uses Greek and Arabic.

Coptic church uses Arabic and Coptic.

All have certain "semitic" cultural practices. I suppose the syriacs are closer to Jews in the sense that they use two semitic languages?
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline Samn!

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Re: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2012, 09:49:24 PM »
Suryoyutho is right that the Antiochian/Greek/Rum Orthodox used Syriac well up to the 18th century. Here's a link to the Akathist Hymn in Syriac, taken from a 13th century manuscript-- http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-akathist-hymn-in-syriac.html

At least in modern times, the Syriac Orthodox in Syria  and Lebanon use a fair bit of Arabic in their liturgy, at least at the liturgies I've attended.

None of these groups have much in common with the culture of the Ashkenazi Jews who are predominant in Europe, the US, and Israel.... but if you didn't already know someone's religion, it would be hard for you to tell them apart culturally from Lebanese, Syrian, or Iraqi Jews....

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2012, 12:48:08 PM »
As a Chalcedonian, I think the Antiochian Rum Orthodox Church would be the correct choice. But liturgically and culturally, I think the Syriac Orthodox Church might be closer to what you're looking for. I know an Israeli Orthodox Priest (an ethnic Ashkenazi Jew) who is based in Jerusalem and has created an interesting Hebraic chant based on Russian chant and Ashkenazi Jewish chant while doing the liturgy in Hebrew and Slavonic. He is under the Ukrainian Orthodox Church but keeps close ties with the Syriac church. 

Orthodox Christian liturgy in Hebrew with Hebraic chant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtX3BUX9iy8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u058xnhvN6Y&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGSM9oRr1Mo&feature=plcp
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Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2012, 01:29:35 PM »
Yeah, if it's a pick between the Syriac and Antiochian Orthodox, the former are closer - the Antiochian Orthodox follow a rite 'finalized' in Constantinople after all :-).

Isn't he under the Jerusalem Patriarchate? I wasn't aware of any Ukrainian Orthodox church (canonical or independent) having a presence in the Holy Land...

As a Chalcedonian, I think the Antiochian Rum Orthodox Church would be the correct choice. But liturgically and culturally, I think the Syriac Orthodox Church might be closer to what you're looking for. I know an Israeli Orthodox Priest (an ethnic Ashkenazi Jew) who is based in Jerusalem and has created an interesting Hebraic chant based on Russian chant and Ashkenazi Jewish chant while doing the liturgy in Hebrew and Slavonic. He is under the Ukrainian Orthodox Church but keeps close ties with the Syriac church. 

Orthodox Christian liturgy in Hebrew with Hebraic chant:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtX3BUX9iy8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u058xnhvN6Y&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGSM9oRr1Mo&feature=plcp
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2012, 07:05:36 PM »
Yeah, if it's a pick between the Syriac and Antiochian Orthodox, the former are closer - the Antiochian Orthodox follow a rite 'finalized' in Constantinople after all :-).

Isn't he under the Jerusalem Patriarchate? I wasn't aware of any Ukrainian Orthodox church (canonical or independent) having a presence in the Holy Land...

I just saw his page on facebook and it says that he is under the Jerusalem Patriarchate as the Spiritual Guide of the Ukrainians in the Holy Land.
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Offline HabteSelassie

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Re: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2012, 07:07:44 PM »
Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

 Also, which is closest to Jewish culture?

(mods, please move if needed.)

None?

stay blessed,
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Offline Anastasia1

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Re: Syriac, Coptic, and Antiochian Orthodox
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2012, 03:36:49 AM »
I visited a Syriac church the other weekend. It was very interesting. They used Arabic and another language during service.  The choir members all wore lace scarves and sat in the first few rows on the right.   The other women rarely wore those outside of communion.  The priest's wife felt a lot like my old Messianic rabbi's wife (who was raised Jewish).
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 03:38:15 AM by Anastasia1 »
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