Topic: Saying goodbye

[choy]

For those who were close to their previous Church/community/group/etc., was saying goodbye hard?  Did you tell them where you are going and why? Or did you just not show up one day?

[Asteriktos]

I told my friends in the congregation, and the pastor. All my friends were ok with it except one, and the pastor said I was making a mistake and that I'd be back.

[GabrieltheCelt]

Hmm.  Well, I was Muslim back in those days and when one apostates from Islam, Muslims get all up in arms and sometimes commit heinous crimes against humanity.  You see, the Qur'an states that vengeance belongs to God and He will deal with apostates.  But Muhammad was an insecure man and so, he just couldn't deal with people wanting to leave his new religion.  Thing is, he successfully bred that insecurity into Islam to where most Muslims today are insecure when it comes to apostates.  So, my answer is a convoluted 'no'; I didn't tell anyone except my folks.

[JamesR]

To be honest, I hated my previous Church and actually went like a year without attending it. The only reason I ever even went to it at all was because my parents forced me. That Church is actually what led to my spiritual soul searching, which would lead me to weird pseudo-Buddhism, atheism, semi-Protestantism and finally Orthodoxy.

[Shiranui117]

In my case, I made a bigger deal out of it for myself than it apparently was. Everyone was okay with it, even my priest (more or less ).

[truthseeker32]

Before I began considering Orthodoxy I hadn't been active in the faith I grew up in (Mormon) for years, but I have discovered that the closer I get to committing to conversion the more I realize how difficult cutting ties with your old faith is even if all that is left is a few loose ties. If I leave I am disconnecting myself from the faith of my family, my ancestors, and the culture in which I was raised. It is admitting that something that helped me through hard times and once held such meaning is a farce. It is a tough thing to do.

[sprtslvr1973]

I had been away from any church for about a year, and largely living in sin. Therefore, aside from asking for an official 'release' from my previous church (which I did not do), there was nothing/no-one to tell

[Dominika]

In my case it was step by step.

Firstly, I had said goodbye (practically literally) to my Roman Catholic parish and had started attending more frequently a Ukrainian Greek Catholic parish (to be able to commune, although I had been considering myself as an Orthodox) and sometimes my present Orthodox parish (my father is Orthodox, so even earlier sometimes I had been going there). It was for more or less 2 years. Then I've matured to make the desicion about conversion so I became a catechumen and I've started attending the Orthodox parish every Saturday and Sunday and feasts. It was for 2 and half month. Last 4 weeks before my chrismation during weekdays I was also attending again my ex RC parish because in Poaland during Advent in RC churches there is a nice tradition of very early special Masses. Since my conversion I have been a few times in my ex RC parish (almost always with my mum).

In my ex RC parish I had been attending many Masses and services, but nothing done offically. I used to know some priests from this church but they were translated to another parishes so probably not so many people in this parish have noticed my conersion.

Only one priest and some people from student's group from Greek Catholic parish were shocked that in new academic year I just stopped to appear at the Liturgies and meetings. Some months later I wrote an e-mail to the priest and explained that I had converted into Otrhodoxy.

[Cyrillic]

I never went back to my church after being baptised, which was when I was a few weeks old. Didn't had much chance to say goodbye at that occasion though.

[mabsoota]

we were in a tiny anglican church at the time. i kept on going, coz my orthodox church met on a saturday, due to not having our own building at that time (i also still went to the catholic church, which met just before the anglican one in the same building). we had been there 10 months, so knew many people and i wanted to keep in touch with them. plus my husband was protestant, so i wanted to accompany him to church, rather than make him feel he had just got divorced.

because i was attending both services, this drew a lot of attention, so when people asked if i was anglican or catholic, i would reply 'orthodox' 
then i got to talk about orthodoxy and also about how important it is to have a regular prayer life and how useful it was to go to orthodox confession. i had lots of great conversations and i could see it made several people reevaluate their spiritual life, which is not a bad thing.

i expect i was also a bit hyperdox and full of excitement about my new church, which must have been quite annoying for some people!
 

had i not moved house, i expect i would have drifted away over a couple of years. there wasn't a sense of 'belonging' to the community and requiring 'release' like in some evangelical and baptist churches, so i didn't ask the anglican priest's permission. i did, however talk to him at length about orthodoxy (poor guy) and he seemed to be quite supportive (or just being polite and british) 

for my extended family and friends, it was a different matter. they were mostly unimpressed, but i kept the lines of communication open as much as possible.

truthseeker32;
i know what you mean about accepting that things in the past were a 'farce'. but it could also be that you were worshiping God as best you could in ignorance and so don't be too hard on yourself. also God has mercy on anyone, not just Christians, so it may be easier to evaluate the past if you realise that perhaps some of your early experiences were instrumental in leading you to the true faith.
certainly don't try to follow 2 religions at once (leads to major confusion) but realise that virtues such as hope and love, which you may have experienced in your previous religion do all come from God. religions which are not Christianity may have corrupted ideas of hope and love, but that doesn't invalidate the hope and the love.
may God lead you and give you courage.

[Schultz]

Nope.  Just didn't go back until about two years later for a church festival and then I only told my one friend there who, I believe, suspected my Orthodox leanings before I did.  I'm pretty sure the rest of the folks there think that when I moved across town, I just started going to another parish closer to my house. 

Technically, that's true; it's a 7 minute drive to my Orthodox parish as oppposed to a 15 minute one to my old Greek Catholic parish.   

[katherineofdixie]

I told my friends when I was considering Orthodoxy, but they dropped me like a hot rock.

It was difficult to leave the Lutheranism, though, because of various cultural and family issues.

[CatherineBrigid]

I have not had to face this yet, since I'm not quite to that point as of yet (getting there, though!).  But this IS something I have spent a good bit of time thinking about.  My current church (Anglican) has been absolutely WONDERFUL to me and my family.  This church literally rescued me and my kids from a very abusive marriage (emotional/mental... not physical towards me (my teens (now flown the coop), that's another story...*shudder*...my poor babies))... likely saving our lives (emotional/spiritually speaking if nothing else!).  The whole year following our escape, they were there for us every single step of the way...whether it was something stupid like me locking myself out of the house (D'oh!) or something major like my car needinig $600 worth of work when I lost my job and was unemployed for months.... they did everything a church "should" do to help a single mom in genuine distress...not just materially, but emotionally and spiritually, as well. They kept me sane and kept me grounded... I would not be where I am today - happy, safe, self-sufficient (i.e., I got a job again - LOL!), secure and LOVING LIFE to the fullest - if they had not been there for us during that time of tremendous upheaval and change.  So leaving this wonderful group of folks? Not an easy thought in the slightest.  

But, there are a few things that will make it do-able when the time comes:

1.  My church is genuinely supportive of people seeking and obeying God's will for our lives.  That matters most, bar none.  I'm sure when I sit down with the Bishop (who is also our rector) when the time comes, he'll at the least be understanding. I don't anticipate a problem there at all... I have a very good church and relationship with them.  Secondary to that:

2.  The priest who I considered to be "my pastor" - the one who was my go-to person for everything - just resigned very recently and is no longer there.  Don't know why, no reason to speculate... just know he was following God's leading for a new phase of ministry.  So though I would never leave simply because one family left (see above - I do have a strong relationship with my church regardless), it does in a sense make it somewhat easier.

3.  My very best friend there is moving to Texas very soon.  Not that I'm not close to others there.. but still. LOL!

So... though I am not to that point just yet, it seems God has been clearing away the "props" that I might have used for an excuse to hang on longer than He would like.  By no means would it be easy, I'm sure...especially given my history there and how much a part of my life my church family is... but I know that in following God's will, He'll take care of it all, one way or another, and it'll all work out as it should.   Future unknown, but God is good.

So...sorry, I guess I really don't have much to offer to this thread since I haven't been there, done that yet.... it HAS been something I've been thinking about.  Thanks for letting me ramble out loud; sorry for the semi-off-topic slide.  Back to our regularly-scheduled posting.......

[mabsoota]

i think you have analysed yr situation wisely, catherinebrigid.
i am sure God is working outside the visible boundaries of the orthodox church and He cares for all people.
sometimes His care involves us sharing orthodoxy with them in a kind and sensitive way.
keep in touch with your old friends as much as you can, and be open with yr family and yr closest friends about yr spiritual journey.
may God lead u and give u courage.
 

[choy]

Same for me I am not there yet, but I do wonder if I do make that step into Orthodoxy how will I tell the people from my parish.  I have to, they have been wonderful to me and have been close to me, the priest, the bishop, many of the clergy from other parishes.  For me I owe this to them to tell them rather than just be cowardly about it.  Honesty comes with love.  But it is still hard.  I've been through some very tough times recently and our bishop has prayed for me ferverently.  I don't know how he'll feel about this.  To me it feels like I'm disappointing my father, and he is indeed a father to me.

[mabsoota]

all the more important to tell him early!
explain u r on a spiritual journey and u r very grateful for all his help in earlier stages of yr spiritual journey.
 

[choy]

Well, I am not 100% convinced yet that I am leaving, but I do plan to talk to him about the issues I am having.  I'm pretty sure he is very aware that interlopers like myself have a tough time in his parishes.  And it is not because people are not welcoming, it is just relly tough to be part of a very ethnic parish.  The toughest part about being around cradles in an ethnic parish is that they are there first and foremost because of their ethnicity, not their faith.  In fact I find that many think their way of worship is different from the Roman Catholics simply because they are Ukrainians, not because of a deeper reason.

[CatherineBrigid]

i think you have analysed yr situation wisely, catherinebrigid.
i am sure God is working outside the visible boundaries of the orthodox church and He cares for all people.
sometimes His care involves us sharing orthodoxy with them in a kind and sensitive way.
keep in touch with your old friends as much as you can, and be open with yr family and yr closest friends about yr spiritual journey.
may God lead u and give u courage.
 

Thank you... it has been so great to watch how God has worked over the last several years... He has done some truly amazing things...and I am looking forward to seeing what He does next on this remarkable journey. :-)  He is so good, so faithful...and I am sooooo very thankful, more than I can possibly express. 

[Margarita]

Didn't really say goodbye, just never returned to my RC parish after my first DL visit.  I did lessen my attendance of my 'home' parish, before every learning the word Orthodox.  I bounced around different parishes trying to find a place to stick.  I recently share my 'conversion' with a friend who travelled RCIA with me.  Not too friendly afterward.  Meh 

GabtheCelt (Howdy  ), I was residing in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia when I decided to apostate from Islam.  Naturally, I did so very secretly.  Treason is the crime for such action, however, as an American to be blacklisted may be your only punishment.  Christianity was not my immediate next path, but for sure paving the way with absolute certainty.  I must say, I did not leave Islam empty.  Quite the contrary.

The few that are updated about my spiritual wanderings, are my family.  I (and a number of family members) have walked a few paths, so there's nothing new under the sun.  However, the Christian walk is notably different than all the others.  I'm not the only one who sees this, Glory.  Explaining the move from Roman Catholicism to Orthodoxy, has been the hardest explanation to provide.  I haven't quite yet been able to supply a coherent explanation.  Rare moments of actions, and even rarer moments of words of wisdom, is all I can offer.

[Xenia]

It was a little awkward because I was actually employed by my old evangelical church when I converted. (I taught in their high school.)  I just sort of slipped-slided away and didn't say anything to anyone except some close friends,  who responded with various degrees of incredulity.  Finally the school principal alerted the pastor and he was apparently so shocked he staggered and the next day came to the house and talked with us for two hours straight but it ended well,  with hugs and me getting to keep my job as long as I didn't promote Orthodoxy.  (But since I was the history teacher you'd be surprised how often Orthodoxy can come up if you choose your topics with care.)

Everyone thought it was just a phase I was going through ("You'll be back").  Old friends invited me to lunch with the intent of bringing me back into the fold.  Some came to Church to see what the big deal was and they converted to Orthodoxy as well!  There are a few people who still want to argue me out of "idolatry" but after ten years,  most have given up or have forgotten all about me.  I have found that most people from my past don't want to discuss Orthodoxy.  They will talk with great enthusiasm about the sermon their pastor gave last Sunday but when I tell about the homily I heard,  they quickly change the subject.  I am careful not to argue with anyone,  just answer any questions.  Very few people ask questions (and like I said,  the few who did converted!)  

Before I actually converted (but was planning to) I was at a dinner for the church staff and their spouses.  I thought I'd float a balloon to see what might happen.  "Hey guys, out of curiosity I visited that little Russian Church in town,  you know,  the one with the blue domes?"  They all responded with variations of "Those poor people are trying to work their way to heaven"  and "It's just Roman Catholicism warmed over."  I realized there was no real point talking to that church's leadership about my upcoming conversion so as I said,  I just quietly slipped away.

I have gone to a few events at my old church- weddings,  etc-  and people will ask  "You still Orthodox?"  And I smile and say "Of course!"  Generally speaking,  once people got used to the idea,  friendships continued on as usual,  only they are allowed to talk about their church stuff and I am not.    Oh well!  Now and then people want me to join into group prayers with them- holding hands and all-  but I try to find some way to get out of participating.  I generally mumble something like "I'll remember to pray for this situation at home."  This is about the only time when I experience genuine friction with my former coreligionists and believe me,  they are quite surprised. Maybe some day I'll come up with a more tactful way to avoid these situations.  (These are not the kinds of prayers I can say "Amen!" to, not merely prayers over meals, etc.)

My old pastor did write me a letter to inform me that "Orthodoxy is not a system that leads to salvation."   I don't know if he thinks I'm going to hell or not.  

My old congregation is not particularly well educated.  Most of them never heard of Eastern Orthodoxy.  That church supports missionaries to Russia and Ukraine where, it is believed,  the people are victims of an idolatrous church that consists of dead rituals, but that's all they know (or think they know.)  These missionaries know absolutely NOTHING about Eastern Orthodoxy.

[VarangianGuard]

 

My old congregation is not particularly well educated.  Most of them never heard of Eastern Orthodoxy.  That church supports missionaries to Russia and Ukraine where, it is believed,  the people are victims of an idolatrous church that consists of dead rituals, but that's all they know (or think they know.)  These missionaries know absolutely NOTHING about Eastern Orthodoxy.

- This fact is extremely annoying, I think. I can't stand it when these protties send their missionaries(try asking these missionaries what they actually believe...and they can't give a coherent answer) into countries wich are either traditionally Catholic or Orthodox, and "convert" by means of money or aid.
My uncle is also a member of such a prottie congregation and they too send out such people. Every time he tells me, I can't help frowning and getting really irritated. It goes with the story that my uncle has no idea even about some of the most basic tenets of Christianity. What is important is "to believe in Jesus". What He taught is, for the most part, largely unknown to them.

Even from a purely secular perspective, it is annoying and irritating. Newcomers arrive with flying colours telling the inhabitants, who belong to a religion with tradition and history, that their new religion, completely void of tradition and history and based on the ravings of some American fundie pastor, is the real thing.

[dzheremi]

Didn't say goodbye, just moved 1400 miles away (Oregon to New Mexico, with a stop in between in California). That's one way to do it, I suppose!

[choy]

Didn't say goodbye, just moved 1400 miles away (Oregon to New Mexico, with a stop in between in California). That's one way to do it, I suppose!

Maybe not that far of a way to move, I can move close to the Orthodox Church here which is a bit ways off from the Eastern Catholic parish I go to.  Of course I don't mind, real estate is cheaper around the area of the Orthodox parish 

[Thomas]

We left our Church with the blessing of our pastor when we became Orthodox. He even called the Orthodox priest to tell him what great communicants we had been and advised him that we had been active in teaching the Sunday School . Our priest used that gift of information to start us teaching Sundays School with first the littlest kids and then progressing us over several years through to high school classes. We learned with the kids and got rid of our old understanding of heterodoxy for  orthodox beliefs, being taught as it were as a child as we taught the children.

Thomas

[mabsoota]

^
|
|
wow!

[jerry]

For those who were close to their previous Church/community/group/etc., was saying goodbye hard?

I was the associate pastor of my church when I left.  I never said goodbye.  I still call some of them and I still go visit with any of them who goes to the hospital.  I wanted to keep the door of communication open in hopes that they might desire to learn about Orthodoxy.  I have had a few of them ask questions too.  But when I did leave I explained that I didn't go out looking for another church, rather, I was looking for a deeper relationship with Christ and that in the search I ended up in Orthodoxy(long story short).  In that respect, some understood and others didn't.  I did have two people tell me that they admired me making the decision I did because of the sacrifices I would be making.

[truthseeker32]

truthseeker32;
i know what you mean about accepting that things in the past were a 'farce'. but it could also be that you were worshiping God as best you could in ignorance and so don't be too hard on yourself. also God has mercy on anyone, not just Christians, so it may be easier to evaluate the past if you realise that perhaps some of your early experiences were instrumental in leading you to the true faith.
certainly don't try to follow 2 religions at once (leads to major confusion) but realise that virtues such as hope and love, which you may have experienced in your previous religion do all come from God. religions which are not Christianity may have corrupted ideas of hope and love, but that doesn't invalidate the hope and the love.
may God lead you and give you courage.

Thank you so much for your kind words, Maboosta. That is a great way to look at it.

We left our Church with the blessing of our pastor when we became Orthodox. He even called the Orthodox priest to tell him what great communicants we had been and advised him that we had been active in teaching the Sunday School . Our priest used that gift of information to start us teaching Sundays School with first the littlest kids and then progressing us over several years through to high school classes. We learned with the kids and got rid of our old understanding of heterodoxy for  orthodox beliefs, being taught as it were as a child as we taught the children.

Thomas

That is surprising. Most LDS people wouldn't handle it that well.

[Thomas]

When we left the LDS Church we went into the Episcopal Church of my childhood for 4 years  when we left it for the Orthodox Church. It was the Episcopal priest who called the Orthodox Priest.

Thomas

[truthseeker32]

When we left the LDS Church we went into the Episcopal Church of my childhood for 4 years  when we left it for the Orthodox Church. It was the Episcopal priest who called the Orthodox Priest.

Thomas

Oh, my mistake. I thought you were born LDS.

[primuspilus]

I went running and never looked back to be honest. Then again, I was a Lutheran who was forced to be Baptist so.....

PP

[choy]

So how do you say goodbye?  What do you tell the priest, the bishop (especially if you are close to him), the other people in the parish?

[Shiranui117]

The following is assuming you're on good terms with the people in church, and that the church you're leaving didn't make you really uncomfortable: Just be straight with them and tell them the truth. If you're feeling drawn to Orthodoxy, tell them that. If you feel you're being guided by God, and if you will continue to discern His Will and take enough time to make sure that you should be/want to be converting, tell them that, too. If He leads you back to the Catholic Church or wherever else you currently are, then you will follow His will and return. If He leads you to Holy Orthodoxy, then let His will be done in that way, as well. But above all else, continue to pray for the community you are leaving; if the priest, bishop and fellow parishioners are close to you, then they will pray for you as well. Make sure they know that you're going off in pursuit of the Truth, and that you will always love and respect them, regardless of whatever happens.

If they ask you what's drawing you to Orthodoxy, then answer their questions humbly and tactfully, but honestly. If/once you do leave, I'd keep in touch with them and even visit them at church from time to time for an event or Vespers(if it's an EC church), so long as it doesn't harm you spiritually; abandoning a bridge is the same as burning it.

[CatherineBrigid]

I'm getting close to the point where I have to make my official "I'm leaving" email to my current pastor who is also the diocese bishop, which makes me really nervous for some reason.. but on the other hand, pretty much everyone from church, including the bishop, is my friend on Facebook and have pretty much put two-and-two together now from my general postings and such, even though I've not come right out and announced it officially yet.  Yay for passive-agressiveness...ROFLOL.....

[choy]

Thank you both.  I'll keep these advises in mind.

[Deborah]

Well, the moment I've been dreading has arrived...it's time to resign from membership of my 'official' local church home.  I'll make an appointment to see the pastor in person this week, to deliver the resignation letter and explain why (joining the Orthodox Church soon).  I'm not sure how it'll be taken, I haven't had an opportunity to tell him of this journey yet. 

I also want to catch up with as many church friends as I can in the remaining weeks/months before becoming Orthodox to let them know.  I've told very few people up to this point, mainly due to job clashing with church and most other opportunities to meet with friends in their free time. 

I didn't want it to be like this, telling people at the last minute.  I hope it doesn't destroy friendships and burn bridges.  I want to stay connected with friends, and help with and pray for community ministries of my old church, even if I'm not an active worshipping member any more.  Please pray for me.

[Shiranui117]

Prayers are with you. If you truly do have friends in that community, then tell them what you told us, and they will understand.

[choy]

As for me, I'd love to stay in touch and be friends with the bishop, the priests, and the parish.  I hope they don't take it negatively if I say that I really need to do this to grow spiritually.

[Kerdy]

I hadn’t gone to my Baptist church in around 10 years when I became my inquiry into Orthodoxy.  I hadn’t found any other church I wanted to join, so I just attended services wherever I felt like going at that time, or I didn’t go at all, so I didn’t tell anyone.  I did; however, have Facebook at that time and started a blog about my journey which several of my old church members saw.  Some asked questions, others seemed a little shocked.  I have one friend I have known almost my entire life and he seems to have purposely stopped communicating with me, even when I go out of my way to contact him (call, email, leave notes at his house and with his wife, etc).  He surprised me most out of everyone, but it is what it is and I don’t worry about stuff like that.

[Deborah]

I didn't get the opportunity to meet with the minister of local church last week due to work and other daytime commitments.  The membership resignation letter is written and will meet with the minister tomorrow to deliver the letter and explain reasons for leaving if he wants to know more.  I've not had the opportunity to mention this to him beforehand.  It can't be left any longer as I'm being received into the Orthodox Church soon.  I'm not looking forward to this, but will leave on as positive a note as possible.

[CatherineBrigid]

Well, I did it.  Friday night I emailed my pastor (who is also bishop of our diocese) and told him about how I felt God was leading our family and that we felt led to be part of this new parish that is forming.  Yesterday I got an email back from him saying, "God bless you in your journey!" And I just posted my officially official announcement on my FB page (tho most folks on FB have figured it out already from my postings, I"m sure).  So... I have set sail from my "safe and familiar" shore and heading into the unknown for real now, and there's no going back now, even if i wanted to.

This morning, I visited the Orthodox Church I visited in September... only my second time going to an orthodox church.  This time I showed up early enough for Orthos... and loved it.  Again, I was struck by the sense of holiness and timelessness.  

I am very excited about my upcoming Chrismation this coming Saturday... and our new parish-in-formation officially beginning the following week. God is good.

[Tommelomsky]

You are one brave girl (sister in faith) and i wish you all the best of luck. You are in my prayers (from one catechumen to another).

[CatherineBrigid]

Thank you! You are in my prayers as well!!! I don't know that I'm brave, I'm really a coward at heart, but God is good.

[lovesupreme]

I did not say goodbye to the Orthodox Jews. I just stopped going to Shabbat meals and services. Some of them still call and leave messages, but I don't respond. I don't know what I would tell them when I was in my agnostic phase, and now I definitely don't know what I'd tell them now that I'm pursuing Orthodox Christianity. I know their thoughts about Christians and apostates and I don't really want to invite conflict.

I still occasionally see them walking to synagogue on the Sabbath, as I drive by their homes to get to my Saturday catechism class. I duck a little in my seat as I drive by... 

[Tommelomsky]

To share my story: i notified my priest in april that i have been pulled towards the church for months (i was beginning to read and ask questions back in december 2011). For one being so sure that i was home and at the same time feeling that some things were not right, well it was hard. It meant hours in and out of thinking, crying and praying (often in that order).

His response was rather foolish, but sorry to say as expected. I was a volunteer at the parish and had been involving in altar serving and social things too. I just left, stopped going to masses and began attending my current parish on may 1st. I let some people at the parish know, but not many.

I felt it was best this way and have not looked back ever since.

[Shiranui117]

I did not say goodbye to the Orthodox Jews. I just stopped going to Shabbat meals and services. Some of them still call and leave messages, but I don't respond. I don't know what I would tell them when I was in my agnostic phase, and now I definitely don't know what I'd tell them now that I'm pursuing Orthodox Christianity. I know their thoughts about Christians and apostates and I don't really want to invite conflict.

I still occasionally see them walking to synagogue on the Sabbath, as I drive by their homes to get to my Saturday catechism class. I duck a little in my seat as I drive by... 

May God give you the strength to move on, and to no longer feel any guilt or awkwardness around them.