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Author Topic: Soli Deo Gloria  (Read 708 times) Average Rating: 0
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sprtslvr1973
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« on: July 22, 2012, 08:34:32 PM »

Last couple of weeks Saint Vanerios (Sp.) has been a subject of admiration and reference at my parish. I don"t mind people asking departed Christians to pray for us like we ask a Christian on Earth to. But I have to say that treating a saint like a source unto them self is wrong.
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2012, 08:39:56 PM »

What specifically is taking place which troubles you?
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sprtslvr1973
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2012, 08:43:45 PM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2012, 09:18:38 PM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant

Cringe.
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2012, 09:28:46 PM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant

That is definitely not something I've ever heard in an Orthodox Church (or, indeed, in any church).
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2012, 10:43:55 PM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant

This is also, to the best of my knowledge, not Orthodox.
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2012, 02:09:32 AM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant

This is also, to the best of my knowledge, not Orthodox.

Ditto. All the worse coming from the mouth of someone in an ordained position .... Does the priest know, and, if so, what did he do about it?
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2012, 02:17:23 AM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant

It is markedly false. If anything, there aren't enough prayers rising up to God.
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sprtslvr1973
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 06:07:54 AM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant

It is markedly false. If anything, there aren't enough prayers rising up to God.
My point exactly
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 11:52:45 AM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant

It is markedly false. If anything, there aren't enough prayers rising up to God.

Ditto!!!!
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 11:54:36 AM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant

It is markedly false. If anything, there aren't enough prayers rising up to God.

Ditto!!!!
Same.
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 01:15:15 PM »

Even if it were true (it isn't, clearly), praying to saints wouldn't solve the problem, as they would only direct the prayers towards God.
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 01:30:06 PM »

Even if it were true (it isn't, clearly), praying to saints wouldn't solve the problem, as they would only direct the prayers towards God.

Maybe the theory is that the saints screen the prayers so God only gets the important ones?
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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2012, 01:36:46 PM »

"Hello, you've reached St. George, how may I direct your call?"? Sounds ridiculous to me.
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sprtslvr1973
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 01:41:07 PM »

"Hello, you've reached St. George, how may I direct your call?"? Sounds ridiculous to me.
So what is your belief about this?
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« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 01:52:17 PM »

I've never heard of this idea that the saints "screen" prayers for God, and my gut reaction is that it is pretty ridiculous. If God exists outside of created time, then why would this be necessary? Is God too "busy" with other prayers, as there's only so much time in the God-day? Preposterous. God is not a 1980s answering machine that fills up and eventually needs to be reset or recorded over when a new batch of prayers come in.
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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012, 02:15:04 PM »

I guess I am confused by this sub-deacon statement. I was always told that when we ask for a Saint to intercede or to pray for us we are asking for there help in our request to God. If by chance the outcome is granted it is by God through the Saint and noway the Saint alone.
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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012, 02:27:59 PM »

Saints are saints because of God, through the incarnation, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ. It is through his atoning work that saints live "though they die." We are able to have communion with them only because they have united themselves to Christ and rest in Him.

That said, because of this power through Christ, we pray to saints that they fulfill our petitions. The most basic petition, of course, would be that s/he intercede before Christ to grant us salvation and mercy. However, if these saints live in Christ, they are...well...alive. They are active beings and can work. They appear in visions, they heal the sick, raise the dead and work all sorts of miracles. I believe that it is indeed the saint, him or herself, that does that work. The saint works miracles. The distinction between the saint's and God's actions is that God works of his own power and authority, whereas the saint works only by the power and authority of God by virtue of their communion with Christ.

And, surely, this idea of God being "too busy" to answer prayer is seriously misguided and needs to be corrected.
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« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2012, 02:28:59 PM »

A gentleman (in fact a subdeacon or deacon) said that God is so over whelmed with prayers that they get lost...This, I believe, is dangerously errant
That would be paganism.

I believe it was Enlil who, in the Babylonian epic, had to drown humans in a flood, because their multitudinous cries made it impossible to get anything done.
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« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2012, 09:02:35 AM »

Still fighting spiritual malaise and getting to any church. Thought about going to another Orthodox church or even a Protestant church for change, but do not want to 'visit' somewhere.
What this has to do with the title of this thread is that recently, after starting this discussion, my godfather suggested I ask Saint Phanourios to help with my job search. Why? Why can't I ask Christ for strength and finding what I need? The story is that Saint Phanorourios was martyred by idol worshipers. Do you really think he'd be happy about people doing the same with him? I mean, I understand the role Christians in Heaven (Saints) play spiritually but isn't it possible to go too far with this? Let me put it another way. While I believe we are to share one another's burdens (Galatians 6:2), but doesn't there come a point where we stop asking our friends to pray for us, and get on our own knees and pray?
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« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2012, 10:18:09 AM »

but doesn't there come a point where we stop asking our friends to pray for us, and get on our own knees and pray?

The two are not mutually exlcusive.
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« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2012, 11:26:43 AM »

but doesn't there come a point where we stop asking our friends to pray for us, and get on our own knees and pray?

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Exactly! Personally I need all the help I can get, and we know from Scripture that the prayers of a righteous man avail much. When I ask for prayer, I'm also praying fervently myself, because it is something that is important to me.
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