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Author Topic: Thinking about leaving Catholicism  (Read 2401 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2012, 09:55:18 AM »

The difference is not found merely in the canonical penalty. The difference is in the gravity of the sin itself. To deny the Divinitynof Christ is to cease to be a Christian altogether.

I don't think Arians are considered totally non-Christians. But for sure to deny the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus is to cease to be a Catholic.  Thus the dilema by Peter J.
The Fathers who wrote "I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" denied the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus.
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« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2012, 10:30:56 AM »

Isn't PNCC short of Polish National Catholic Church? Well, it's not a big church, and it isn't in communion with mainline Old Catholic Churches. Are you descendant of Polish? I'm just wondering why this particular church? Seems very interesting.
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« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2012, 10:35:11 AM »

The difference is not found merely in the canonical penalty. The difference is in the gravity of the sin itself. To deny the Divinitynof Christ is to cease to be a Christian altogether.

I don't think Arians are considered totally non-Christians. But for sure to deny the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus is to cease to be a Catholic.  Thus the dilema by Peter J.
I think Arians are non-Christians.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2012, 12:55:59 PM »

Isn't PNCC short of Polish National Catholic Church? Well, it's not a big church, and it isn't in communion with mainline Old Catholic Churches. Are you descendant of Polish? I'm just wondering why this particular church? Seems very interesting.
They have a branch in Scandinavia now, the Nordic Catholic Church, because the Orthodox Archbishop was foolishly phyletist.
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2012, 01:03:22 PM »

I am curious why the PNCC?  I don't know much about them except for the usual Catholic tract of "they are not with the Pope therefore they are heretic schismatics".
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« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2012, 01:08:48 PM »

I also am curious "Why the PNCC?"

They don't seem terribly "traditionalist." Birth control is OK, private confession is not required once you pass sixteen (?)...
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« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2012, 03:26:43 PM »

The difference is not found merely in the canonical penalty. The difference is in the gravity of the sin itself. To deny the Divinitynof Christ is to cease to be a Christian altogether.

I don't think Arians are considered totally non-Christians. But for sure to deny the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus is to cease to be a Catholic.  Thus the dilema by Peter J.
The Fathers who wrote "I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" denied the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus.

Well considering that it wasn't written yet at that point, they didn't. police
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« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2012, 03:29:14 PM »

The difference is not found merely in the canonical penalty. The difference is in the gravity of the sin itself. To deny the Divinitynof Christ is to cease to be a Christian altogether.

I don't think Arians are considered totally non-Christians. But for sure to deny the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus is to cease to be a Catholic.  Thus the dilema by Peter J.
The Fathers who wrote "I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" denied the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus.

Well considering that it wasn't written yet at that point, they didn't. police

Ruh-roh
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« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2012, 03:44:59 PM »

The difference is not found merely in the canonical penalty. The difference is in the gravity of the sin itself. To deny the Divinitynof Christ is to cease to be a Christian altogether.

I don't think Arians are considered totally non-Christians. But for sure to deny the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus is to cease to be a Catholic.  Thus the dilema by Peter J.
The Fathers who wrote "I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" denied the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus.

Well considering that it wasn't written yet at that point, they didn't. police

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« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2012, 03:47:59 PM »

The difference is not found merely in the canonical penalty. The difference is in the gravity of the sin itself. To deny the Divinitynof Christ is to cease to be a Christian altogether.

I don't think Arians are considered totally non-Christians. But for sure to deny the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus is to cease to be a Catholic.  Thus the dilema by Peter J.
The Fathers who wrote "I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" denied the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus.

Well considering that it wasn't written yet at that point, they didn't. police



Oops! Sorry. Wrong Newman.



I refer, of course, to "The Development of Doctrine," which has been such a boon to Roman Catholic theology over the last 150 years.
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« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2012, 02:59:30 AM »

I refer, of course, to "The Development of Doctrine," which has been such a boon to Roman Catholic theology over the last 150 years.

Is it really that recent concept? Shocked
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« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2012, 03:10:17 AM »

No, but the essay of that name ("On the Development of Doctrine") by the gentleman pictured in the painting, John Henry Newman, is.  Smiley
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« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2012, 04:49:57 AM »

Thinking about leaving Catholicism ... I realize that may not seem very newsworthy; yet, in a certain sense, I think it is newsworthy because I get the impression, from the way many people here talk, that they assume that I have absolutely no interest in leaving Catholicism.

On the other hand, I find that many Catholics take a very strange approach to a fellow Catholic who, let's say, doesn't believe in Papal Infallibility or what have you. Namely, they won't say that such a person should be excommunicated, but they will try to provoke him or her into leaving. E.g. "Why would you want to stay in full communion with us if you believe we are wrong?"

But getting back to myself, if someone's going to ask "Does this mean that you are in fact leaving Catholicism?" my answer would be: not in the immediate future.

This post feels a little incomplete, but my other thoughts on the matter aren't well-organized at this point, so ...

Congratulations Peter J on making your first step towards Orthodoxy  Smiley
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« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2012, 05:19:17 AM »

Leaving "catholicism" for what?
I just love you.
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« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2012, 08:16:38 AM »

Isn't PNCC short of Polish National Catholic Church? Well, it's not a big church, and it isn't in communion with mainline Old Catholic Churches. Are you descendant of Polish? I'm just wondering why this particular church? Seems very interesting.
They have a branch in Scandinavia now, the Nordic Catholic Church, because the Orthodox Archbishop was foolishly phyletist.

Indeed the Orthodox option (and the Catholic option) was mentioned in this interview about the founding of the Nordic Catholic Church,

Quote
To put it bluntly, why the Nordic Catholic Church? Why not Rome? Why not Orthodoxy?

RF: We had been united as a group, and there was a lot of internal loyalty to the group. Those of us who had leadership responsibilities did not want to leave the people that we had put in such a difficult position. So we tried to find a collective solution. Orthodoxy would probably have accepted us in the end, after a transitional period, as a Western rite parish or parishes.

(Answer continues at the link above.)

P.S. As Cyro pointed out, the PNCC is a small church. There's a parish where I now live, but it would likely be an issue if I were ever to move.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 08:17:27 AM by Peter J » Logged

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« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2012, 08:57:33 AM »

The difference is not found merely in the canonical penalty. The difference is in the gravity of the sin itself. To deny the Divinitynof Christ is to cease to be a Christian altogether.

I don't think Arians are considered totally non-Christians. But for sure to deny the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus is to cease to be a Catholic.  Thus the dilema by Peter J.
I think Arians are non-Christians.

That seems to be your Church's justification for rejecting the baptism of certain groups using proper form. Nonetheless, Arians were not typically received in such a canonically harsh manner as rebaptism.
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ialmisry
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« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2012, 10:47:57 AM »

The difference is not found merely in the canonical penalty. The difference is in the gravity of the sin itself. To deny the Divinitynof Christ is to cease to be a Christian altogether.

I don't think Arians are considered totally non-Christians. But for sure to deny the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus is to cease to be a Catholic.  Thus the dilema by Peter J.
The Fathers who wrote "I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church" denied the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus.

Well considering that it wasn't written yet at that point, they didn't. police
But such is the power of the Supreme Pontiff.  He can declare, nearly two thousand years after the death of the last of the Apostles, something Apostolic and believed from the days of the Apostles until today and forever, something no Apostle ever dreamed up let alone preached.

The Fathers of the Second Ecumenical Council set up a boundary mark that Supreme Pontiff moved, while keeping that Supreme Pontiff within the boundaries established by the Fathers but leaped over by Pastor Aeternus.
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2012, 11:12:58 AM »

Once Catholic, always Catholic?
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« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2012, 12:08:54 PM »

Once Orthodox, MORE CATHOLIC. Cool
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ialmisry
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« Reply #64 on: September 06, 2012, 12:20:20 PM »

Once Orthodox, MORE CATHOLIC. Cool
+100
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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« Reply #65 on: September 06, 2012, 12:30:34 PM »

The difference is not found merely in the canonical penalty. The difference is in the gravity of the sin itself. To deny the Divinitynof Christ is to cease to be a Christian altogether.

I don't think Arians are considered totally non-Christians. But for sure to deny the Papacy as defined by Pastor Aeternus is to cease to be a Catholic.  Thus the dilema by Peter J.
I think Arians are non-Christians.

St. Constantine would like a word with you... Wink
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« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2012, 03:45:19 PM »

But such is the power of the Supreme Pontiff.  He can declare, nearly two thousand years after the death of the last of the Apostles, something Apostolic and believed from the days of the Apostles until today and forever, something no Apostle ever dreamed up let alone preached.

The Fathers of the Second Ecumenical Council set up a boundary mark that Supreme Pontiff moved, while keeping that Supreme Pontiff within the boundaries established by the Fathers but leaped over by Pastor Aeternus.

I'm interested, what is it exactly that was defined and the Pope moved?
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