Update on trevor72694

[LizaSymonenko]

I know a young teenage boy who has some major issues and has been to therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.  You name it, he's seen them....and nothing.  Lots of money gone, and neither one has helped the situation.

[Asteriktos]

I know a young teenage boy who has some major issues and has been to therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.  You name it, he's seen them....and nothing.  Lots of money gone, and neither one has helped the situation.

I saw therapists on and off for 14 years before I found one that helped much...

[JamesRottnek]

I know a young teenage boy who has some major issues and has been to therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.  You name it, he's seen them....and nothing.  Lots of money gone, and neither one has helped the situation.

And how long has he stuck with any one of them?  And how long has he been seeing a professional at all?  And how committed is he (not his parent(s) nor his therapist/counselor/psychologist) to the process and to changing?

[ialmisry]

I am sooooooo sad.....

This just proves that modern "therapy", quizzes, tests, etc....are all designed to make you doubt your faith....and fit "in" with modern social norms.  

This is just patently false.

Indeed.  My wife's therapist often told her to go back to church more often. 

And he was a Jewish atheist.

A rarity (one seeing value in church-going, that is.  There are a few, but they are outnumbered).

I have seen a master's level therapist, two psychiatrists, two psychiatric nurse practitioners, two licensed clinical social workers involved in group therapy, and something like five behavioral health techs at a psych hospital, in the last year.  Of those twelve mental health professionals, a grand total of zero ever expressed any idea that religion - of any sort - was a bad thing; and I can recall nine of them bringing it up, all in a positive way with regard to those who had an interest in their faith.  You are quite frankly just spewing more random feces as you so often do, with no basis in facts of any kind.  I strongly encourage you to set aside your prejudices for a few minutes every day and actually think about whether or not you have any reason at all to believe the insane things that you do.

Didn't see this before: I worked in the locked unit of a free standing psych hospital for 5 years, and have known a lot of psych professionals and teachers, before and since. I have literally read thousands of case files.  And yes, those who see value in religion, especially beyond just a crutch, are outnumbered.

As for the alleged prejudices-which seem to amount to nothing more than I do not agree with you-I have no problem with anyone availing themselves of psych services, nor using the findings of psychology.

And how long ago did you do this?  And where?

Work at the hospital?  Over a decade ago.  Deal with Psychologists/Psychiatrists/Social Workers, personally and professionally, use psychological studies etc...I still do that.  Mostly in Chicago.

[Romaios]

Proverbs 25

11 A word fitly spoken
    is like apples of gold in a setting of silver.
12 Like a gold ring or an ornament of gold
    is a wise rebuke to a listening ear.

16 If you have found honey, eat only enough for you,
    or else, having too much, you will vomit it.

19 Like a bad tooth or a lame foot
    is trust in a faithless person in time of trouble.
20 Like vinegar on a wound
    is one who sings songs to a heavy heart.
21 Like a moth in clothing or a worm in wood,
    sorrow gnaws at the human heart.

26 Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain
    are the righteous who give way before the wicked.
27 It is not good to eat much honey,
    or to seek honour on top of honour.
28 Like a city breached, without walls,
    is one who lacks self-control.

[Michał Kalina]

Do we really need to start that soap opera again?

[Quinault]

Do we really need to start that soap opera again?

No, we really don't need to.

[Romaios]

Do we really need to start that soap opera again?

Which soap opera would 'that' be exactly?

Moderators, I believe, have the power of the keys - should they have enough of a thread, they can lock it, can't they?

Otherwise, Solomon's advice holds good for soap, as well as honey. 

[Michał Kalina]

Moderators, I believe, have the power of the keys - should they have enough of a tread, they can lock it, can't they?

We can't lock threads because we do not like them.

[Romaios]

Moderators, I believe, have the power of the keys - should they have enough of a tread, they can lock it, can't they?

We can't lock threads because we do not like them.

That's just too bad! 

[Quinault]

How about we put thread closures to a vote then?

[Michał Kalina]

How about we put thread closures to a vote then?

Start a thread in the Board News. But I doubt it will go through.

[Asteriktos]

They already do thread closures. Mods will lock a thread and say "Locked pending review" or something, and then never reopen it 

[Romaios]

Look, I'm sorry!  

I only posted because somewhere there was talk of honey as an analogy for objective truth, independent of our brain processes. This reminded me of Proverbs 25, which is one of my favourite 'Scripture-remedies' - it seemed to fit the context. As it turns out, it wasn't "a word fitly spoken"...

In all honesty, it didn't occur to me that I was resurrecting a 'soap opera'...    

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Are we all still posting in this, as well?!  Oy!

[Romaios]

Are we all still posting in this, as well?!  Oy!

Vavoy!

We all had better not. The business of exposing one's wounds on a forum might attract Job's comforters (like myself) and is bound to degenerate into soap-opera.

"If the cause of the sin is secret, let him disclose it to the Abbot alone, or to his spiritual Superiors, who know how to heal their own wounds and those of others, and not expose and make them public." (Rule of St. Benedict, Chapter 46) 

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Hi, brothers and sisters in Christ.

Since you all are so keen on discussing the subject matter in this thread, I'll just say that my relationship with God is changing.  I am believing differently than I used to.  My level of zeal went up really high, down really low, and now it seems to be balancing out.

I'm not obligated to update you all on my spiritual journey.  That is between God, my priest and I.  You can consider the original post in this thread to be no longer accurate. 

Christ's love to you all,

Trevor

[Jetavan]

Hi, brothers and sisters in Christ.

Since you all are so keen on discussing the subject matter in this thread, I'll just say that my relationship with God is changing.  I am believing differently than I used to.  My level of zeal went up really high, down really low, and now it seems to be balancing out.

I'm not obligated to update you all on my spiritual journey.  That is between God, my priest and I.  You can consider the original post in this thread to be no longer accurate. 

Christ's love to you all,

Trevor

Sehr gut.

[theistgal]

Good for you, trevor! :-)

[augustin717]

Certainly way more mature than when you were worrying how to bake prosphora. Keep up

[Michał Kalina]

Certainly way more mature than when you were worrying how to bake prosphora. Keep up

+1

[orthonorm]

That is between God, my priest and I.

Sorry for removing that gay color.

This is a great English test for the fellow marms.

How many errors are in the above quote? What are they? And why? (I am officially tossing out one of the traditional criticisms which could used here.)

[OrthoNoob]

@Orthonorm

Should be "...among God, my priest, and me."

[Jetavan]

@Orthonorm

Should be "...among God, my priest, and me."

"Between" would also be appropriate, perhaps even more appropriate, since "among" implies a vaguer relationship among the three, whereas "between" implies explict, distinct relations between God and believer, between God and priest, and between believer and priest.

[William]

You can consider the original post in this thread to be no longer accurate.

lol

[Michał Kalina]

That is between God, my priest and I.

Sorry for removing that gay color.

This is a great English test for the fellow marms.

How many errors are in the above quote? What are they? And why? (I am officially tossing out one of the traditional criticisms which could used here.)

Master, such a gem from you.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

@Orthonorm

Should be "...among God, my priest, and me."

That oxford comma gets me every time!     I've missed you all.

[Marc1152]

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".



That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

[JamesRottnek]

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".



That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

No.  Because then you must calculate the odds of an all-powerful being with no beginning, existing.

[orthonorm]

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".



That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

[JamesR]

God-of-the-Gaps Fallacy? Possibly either the Gambler's Fallacy or Inverse Gamber's Fallacy as well--I get the two mixed up.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".



That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.

[orthonorm]

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".



That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.

It is not actually. It is a test which proves people consistently lack some of the most basic reasoning skills.

[JamesR]

My problem with the whole thing about order and randomness in regards to the God debate is how exactly do we define "order" and "disorder"? Those are manmade constructs to describe the natural way things are. In reality, one could argue that there is NOTHING unique about the way our universe is because it could have just as easily been entirely different--all the laws of nature, logic and everything as we know it could have just as easily been different. It's like throwing out a deck of cards, pulling a random card out and having it be an Ace. In reality, there is nothing special about it--it was an equal chance that it could have been any of the cards in the deck. The uniqueness to the card is merely the result of the MANMADE value we ascribe to the Ace--but in reality it could have just as easily been a 6 or a Jack etc. I imagine one could argue that the universe is the same way.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".



That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.

It is not actually. It is a test which proves people consistently lack some of the most basic reasoning skills.

By the word "actually," are you claiming superior knowledge and reasoning abilities?

[Marc1152]

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".



That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

No.  Because then you must calculate the odds of an all-powerful being with no beginning, existing.

Yes, Because we just calculated the odds of life arising randomly and it appears to be impossible.. Therefore, it was not random chance but rather by purposeful design.

[Marc1152]

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".



That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.

Right. It strongly implies the existence of God in a way that is hard to refute.

"Prove" you exist.. 

[orthonorm]

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".



That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.

Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.

It is not actually. It is a test which proves people consistently lack some of the most basic reasoning skills.

By the word "actually," are you claiming superior knowledge and reasoning abilities?

In this case, yes. Because I see how ridiculous this is and how it rests on faulty reasoning, while others here think whatever in the video has merit.

What's really amazing, I haven't even watched the thing.

[JamesR]

Hey Jason did I get it right? Do I get a cookie?

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

Without even watching the video! You are simply an amazing person.

[Rufus]

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

The chances of that happening were one in a billion!

Does that mean that there was some special purpose behind the event? After all, the chances were beyond miniscule. It could hardly have been random chance.

Maybe there are other ways to approach the problem, but this is what goes through my head when people make claims like this. The scary thing is that some people will seriously question their belief in God once arguments like this one fall apart.

[Jetavan]

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

Which possibility happened?

[Rufus]

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

Which possibility happened?

That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.

[Jetavan]

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

Which possibility happened?

That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.

I asked first.

[Rufus]

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

Which possibility happened?

That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.

I asked first.

OK, I'll pick, then. The most amazing possibility.

[Tags:]

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