OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 30, 2014, 01:38:18 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Update on trevor72694  (Read 9365 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 13,262



WWW
« Reply #180 on: December 11, 2012, 04:19:03 PM »


I know a young teenage boy who has some major issues and has been to therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.  You name it, he's seen them....and nothing.  Lots of money gone, and neither one has helped the situation.

Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,096


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #181 on: December 11, 2012, 04:20:29 PM »


I know a young teenage boy who has some major issues and has been to therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.  You name it, he's seen them....and nothing.  Lots of money gone, and neither one has helped the situation.



I saw therapists on and off for 14 years before I found one that helped much...
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #182 on: December 11, 2012, 04:24:45 PM »


I know a young teenage boy who has some major issues and has been to therapists, counselors, psychologists, etc.  You name it, he's seen them....and nothing.  Lots of money gone, and neither one has helped the situation.



And how long has he stuck with any one of them?  And how long has he been seeing a professional at all?  And how committed is he (not his parent(s) nor his therapist/counselor/psychologist) to the process and to changing?
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #183 on: December 11, 2012, 05:06:06 PM »

I am sooooooo sad.....

This just proves that modern "therapy", quizzes, tests, etc....are all designed to make you doubt your faith....and fit "in" with modern social norms.  



This is just patently false.

Indeed.  My wife's therapist often told her to go back to church more often. 

And he was a Jewish atheist.
A rarity (one seeing value in church-going, that is.  There are a few, but they are outnumbered).

I have seen a master's level therapist, two psychiatrists, two psychiatric nurse practitioners, two licensed clinical social workers involved in group therapy, and something like five behavioral health techs at a psych hospital, in the last year.  Of those twelve mental health professionals, a grand total of zero ever expressed any idea that religion - of any sort - was a bad thing; and I can recall nine of them bringing it up, all in a positive way with regard to those who had an interest in their faith.  You are quite frankly just spewing more random feces as you so often do, with no basis in facts of any kind.  I strongly encourage you to set aside your prejudices for a few minutes every day and actually think about whether or not you have any reason at all to believe the insane things that you do.
Didn't see this before: I worked in the locked unit of a free standing psych hospital for 5 years, and have known a lot of psych professionals and teachers, before and since. I have literally read thousands of case files.  And yes, those who see value in religion, especially beyond just a crutch, are outnumbered.

As for the alleged prejudices-which seem to amount to nothing more than I do not agree with you-I have no problem with anyone availing themselves of psych services, nor using the findings of psychology.

And how long ago did you do this?  And where?
Work at the hospital?  Over a decade ago.  Deal with Psychologists/Psychiatrists/Social Workers, personally and professionally, use psychological studies etc...I still do that.  Mostly in Chicago.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #184 on: January 08, 2013, 07:12:13 AM »

Proverbs 25

11 A word fitly spoken
    is like apples of gold in a setting of silver.
12 Like a gold ring or an ornament of gold
    is a wise rebuke to a listening ear.

16 If you have found honey, eat only enough for you,
    or else, having too much, you will vomit it.


19 Like a bad tooth or a lame foot
    is trust in a faithless person in time of trouble.
20 Like vinegar on a wound
    is one who sings songs to a heavy heart.
21 Like a moth in clothing or a worm in wood,
    sorrow gnaws at the human heart.

26 Like a muddied spring or a polluted fountain
    are the righteous who give way before the wicked.
27 It is not good to eat much honey,
    or to seek honour on top of honour.
28 Like a city breached, without walls,
    is one who lacks self-control.
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #185 on: January 08, 2013, 07:27:30 AM »

Do we really need to start that soap opera again?
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,518


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #186 on: January 08, 2013, 07:33:08 AM »

Do we really need to start that soap opera again?

No, we really don't need to.
Logged
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #187 on: January 08, 2013, 07:36:53 AM »

Do we really need to start that soap opera again?

Which soap opera would 'that' be exactly?

Moderators, I believe, have the power of the keys - should they have enough of a thread, they can lock it, can't they?

Otherwise, Solomon's advice holds good for soap, as well as honey.  Grin
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 07:50:41 AM by Romaios » Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #188 on: January 08, 2013, 07:41:09 AM »

Moderators, I believe, have the power of the keys - should they have enough of a tread, they can lock it, can't they?

We can't lock threads because we do not like them.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #189 on: January 08, 2013, 07:41:59 AM »

Moderators, I believe, have the power of the keys - should they have enough of a tread, they can lock it, can't they?

We can't lock threads because we do not like them.

That's just too bad!  Cheesy
Logged
Quinault
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 4,518


What about frogs? I like frogs!


« Reply #190 on: January 08, 2013, 07:55:19 AM »

How about we put thread closures to a vote then?
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #191 on: January 08, 2013, 07:58:27 AM »

How about we put thread closures to a vote then?

Start a thread in the Board News. But I doubt it will go through.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,096


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #192 on: January 08, 2013, 08:05:57 AM »

They already do thread closures. Mods will lock a thread and say "Locked pending review" or something, and then never reopen it  Wink
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #193 on: January 08, 2013, 08:10:35 AM »

Look, I'm sorry!  Cry

I only posted because somewhere there was talk of honey as an analogy for objective truth, independent of our brain processes. This reminded me of Proverbs 25, which is one of my favourite 'Scripture-remedies' - it seemed to fit the context. As it turns out, it wasn't "a word fitly spoken"...

In all honesty, it didn't occur to me that I was resurrecting a 'soap opera'...    
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 08:31:32 AM by Romaios » Logged
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« Reply #194 on: January 08, 2013, 08:44:13 AM »

Are we all still posting in this, as well?!  Oy!
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,933



« Reply #195 on: January 08, 2013, 09:13:06 AM »

Are we all still posting in this, as well?!  Oy!

Vavoy!

We all had better not. The business of exposing one's wounds on a forum might attract Job's comforters (like myself) and is bound to degenerate into soap-opera.

"If the cause of the sin is secret, let him disclose it to the Abbot alone, or to his spiritual Superiors, who know how to heal their own wounds and those of others, and not expose and make them public." (Rule of St. Benedict, Chapter 46) 
Logged
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« Reply #196 on: January 08, 2013, 09:27:46 AM »

Hi, brothers and sisters in Christ.

Since you all are so keen on discussing the subject matter in this thread, I'll just say that my relationship with God is changing.  I am believing differently than I used to.  My level of zeal went up really high, down really low, and now it seems to be balancing out.

I'm not obligated to update you all on my spiritual journey.  That is between God, my priest and I.  You can consider the original post in this thread to be no longer accurate. 

Christ's love to you all,

Trevor
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 09:28:14 AM by trevor72694 » Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #197 on: January 08, 2013, 12:28:51 PM »

Hi, brothers and sisters in Christ.

Since you all are so keen on discussing the subject matter in this thread, I'll just say that my relationship with God is changing.  I am believing differently than I used to.  My level of zeal went up really high, down really low, and now it seems to be balancing out.

I'm not obligated to update you all on my spiritual journey.  That is between God, my priest and I.  You can consider the original post in this thread to be no longer accurate. 

Christ's love to you all,

Trevor

Sehr gut.
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Follower of Jesus Christ
Jurisdiction: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 2,082


don't even go there!


« Reply #198 on: January 08, 2013, 02:38:25 PM »

Good for you, trevor! :-)
Logged

"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,635



« Reply #199 on: January 08, 2013, 03:15:29 PM »

Certainly way more mature than when you were worrying how to bake prosphora. Keep up Wink
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #200 on: January 08, 2013, 03:16:26 PM »

Certainly way more mature than when you were worrying how to bake prosphora. Keep up Wink

+1
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,536



« Reply #201 on: January 08, 2013, 04:20:23 PM »

That is between God, my priest and I.

Sorry for removing that gay color.

This is a great English test for the fellow marms.

How many errors are in the above quote? What are they? And why? (I am officially tossing out one of the traditional criticisms which could used here.)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 04:20:54 PM by orthonorm » Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
OrthoNoob
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,017



« Reply #202 on: January 08, 2013, 04:32:15 PM »

@Orthonorm

Should be "...among God, my priest, and me."
Logged

http://avengingredhand.wordpress.com -- My blog

'These words I, Leo, have set down for love and as a safeguard of the Orthodox Faith'
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #203 on: January 08, 2013, 04:41:48 PM »

@Orthonorm

Should be "...among God, my priest, and me."
"Between" would also be appropriate, perhaps even more appropriate, since "among" implies a vaguer relationship among the three, whereas "between" implies explict, distinct relations between God and believer, between God and priest, and between believer and priest.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 04:42:03 PM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
William
Muted
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,354


« Reply #204 on: January 08, 2013, 05:31:33 PM »

You can consider the original post in this thread to be no longer accurate.

lol
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #205 on: January 08, 2013, 05:33:11 PM »

That is between God, my priest and I.

Sorry for removing that gay color.

This is a great English test for the fellow marms.

How many errors are in the above quote? What are they? And why? (I am officially tossing out one of the traditional criticisms which could used here.)

Master, such a gem from you.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Tikhon.of.Colorado
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,363



« Reply #206 on: January 08, 2013, 10:34:54 PM »

@Orthonorm

Should be "...among God, my priest, and me."
That oxford comma gets me every time!   laugh  I've missed you all.
Logged

"It is true that I am not always faithful, but I never lose courage, I leave myself in the Arms of Our Lord." - St. Thérèse of Lisieux
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 13,113


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #207 on: January 08, 2013, 11:00:12 PM »

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

Huh

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.




Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #208 on: January 09, 2013, 04:00:44 PM »

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

Huh

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.




Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

No.  Because then you must calculate the odds of an all-powerful being with no beginning, existing.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,536



« Reply #209 on: January 09, 2013, 06:59:11 PM »

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

Huh

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.




Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,763


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #210 on: January 09, 2013, 07:00:54 PM »

God-of-the-Gaps Fallacy? Possibly either the Gambler's Fallacy or Inverse Gamber's Fallacy as well--I get the two mixed up.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,890



« Reply #211 on: January 09, 2013, 07:10:30 PM »

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

Huh

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.




Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,536



« Reply #212 on: January 09, 2013, 07:13:20 PM »

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

Huh

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.




Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.

It is not actually. It is a test which proves people consistently lack some of the most basic reasoning skills.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 07:13:34 PM by orthonorm » Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,763


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #213 on: January 09, 2013, 07:15:39 PM »

My problem with the whole thing about order and randomness in regards to the God debate is how exactly do we define "order" and "disorder"? Those are manmade constructs to describe the natural way things are. In reality, one could argue that there is NOTHING unique about the way our universe is because it could have just as easily been entirely different--all the laws of nature, logic and everything as we know it could have just as easily been different. It's like throwing out a deck of cards, pulling a random card out and having it be an Ace. In reality, there is nothing special about it--it was an equal chance that it could have been any of the cards in the deck. The uniqueness to the card is merely the result of the MANMADE value we ascribe to the Ace--but in reality it could have just as easily been a 6 or a Jack etc. I imagine one could argue that the universe is the same way.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,890



« Reply #214 on: January 09, 2013, 07:36:21 PM »

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

Huh

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.




Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.

It is not actually. It is a test which proves people consistently lack some of the most basic reasoning skills.

By the word "actually," are you claiming superior knowledge and reasoning abilities?
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 13,113


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #215 on: January 09, 2013, 10:00:58 PM »

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

Huh

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.




Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

No.  Because then you must calculate the odds of an all-powerful being with no beginning, existing.

Yes, Because we just calculated the odds of life arising randomly and it appears to be impossible.. Therefore, it was not random chance but rather by purposeful design.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 13,113


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #216 on: January 09, 2013, 10:05:54 PM »

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

Huh

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.




Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.

Right. It strongly implies the existence of God in a way that is hard to refute.

"Prove" you exist..  Smiley
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
orthonorm
Warned
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Sola Gratia
Jurisdiction: Outside
Posts: 16,536



« Reply #217 on: January 09, 2013, 10:25:53 PM »

That may be true.

Therefore, the responsibility lies with the seminaries to ensure that the priests are prepared to handle these situations and are willing to dedicate the time to their flocks.

Personally, I am always surprised to read that people have gone to their priest and told them they just "aren't happy" and will start skipping Liturgy....and the response is "OK".

Huh

That just baffles me.  It's not okay.  Perhaps the person needs additional attention and care.  I can't believe the sheep is leaving the flock and it's okay.  This has occurred more than once, as multiple posters have posted pretty much the same response given them from their clergy when told they were leaving.

Even if they can't convince the person to stay....don't sugar coat it and say it's "OK".  Don't make them feel it is all good to leave the Church and become less than what they have been called to be.  Don't be mean, but, perhaps a follow up or a show of concern would be of benefit.




Funny how people judge atheists, when they can't scienctifically prove God's existence. Wake up people. I believe in God. But I can;t offer any proof of his existence. Therefore judging and condemning atheists, doesn't sound sane.

We can come close to proving the existence of God once you calculate the odds of life arising randomly.

This short You tube will take you through the numbers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw

This is ridiculous (I didn't watch it).

Can PtA name the fallacy here?

This is a persuasive argument against random development, or for intelligent design. However, it does not prove existence of God.

It is not actually. It is a test which proves people consistently lack some of the most basic reasoning skills.

By the word "actually," are you claiming superior knowledge and reasoning abilities?

In this case, yes. Because I see how ridiculous this is and how it rests on faulty reasoning, while others here think whatever in the video has merit.

What's really amazing, I haven't even watched the thing.
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,763


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #218 on: January 09, 2013, 11:09:37 PM »

Hey Jason did I get it right? Do I get a cookie?
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,890



« Reply #219 on: January 10, 2013, 03:09:48 PM »

Without even watching the video! You are simply an amazing person.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #220 on: January 10, 2013, 06:49:47 PM »

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.

The chances of that happening were one in a billion!

Does that mean that there was some special purpose behind the event? After all, the chances were beyond miniscule. It could hardly have been random chance.

Maybe there are other ways to approach the problem, but this is what goes through my head when people make claims like this. The scary thing is that some people will seriously question their belief in God once arguments like this one fall apart.
Logged
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #221 on: January 10, 2013, 06:53:36 PM »

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #222 on: January 10, 2013, 06:58:41 PM »

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?

That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
Logged
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #223 on: January 10, 2013, 07:07:34 PM »

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?

That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
I asked first. Cool
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Rufus
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: leet


Nafpliotis with sunglasses and a cigar.


« Reply #224 on: January 10, 2013, 07:11:42 PM »

OK, logic isn't my thing, but let's just take a look at this. We'll create a model scenario that simplifies the problem for us.

You have a universe in which there are one billion different possibilities. Only one of them can happen. Lo and behold! one of them happens.
Which possibility happened?

That's not part of the argument presented. But we can go there.

Tell me which possibility happened.
I asked first. Cool

OK, I'll pick, then. The most amazing possibility.
Logged
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.157 seconds with 72 queries.