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Author Topic: Why do Orthodoxy,Catholic and protestant have different canonical scriptures?  (Read 1858 times) Average Rating: 0
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kx9
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« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2013, 03:08:40 AM »

Does Orthodox consider Tobit, Judith, 1st + 2nd Maccabees, Wisdom of Sirach, Baruch ,part of Daniel and esther which reformers took away as Apocrypha?

No. Those books are considered to be legitimate parts of Scripture.

If so then why did some of the church fathers in the first four centuries of the Church reject the Apocrypha as Scripture. 

Jerome, Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Athanasius also rejected it.

Tobit 6:5-7 Condones the use of magic

"Then the angel said to him: Take out the entrails of this fish, and lay up his heart, and his gall, and his liver for thee: for these are necessary for useful medicines. 6 And when he had done so, he roasted the flesh thereof, and they took it with them in the way: the rest they salted as much as might serve them, till they came to Rages the city of the Medes. 7 Then Tobias asked the angel, and said to him: I beseech thee, brother Azarias, tell me what remedies are these things good for, which thou hast bid me keep of the fish? 8 And the angel, answering, said to him: If thou put a little piece of its heart upon coals, the smoke thereof driveth away all kind of devils, either from man or from woman, so that they come no more to them."

Is it true that the smoke from a fish's heart, when burned, drives away evil spirits?



Tobit 4:11, "For alms deliver from all sin, and from death, and will not suffer the soul to go into darkness." 
Tobit 12:9, "For alms delivereth from death, and the same is that which purgeth away sins, and maketh to find mercy and life everlasting."

But according to 1 John 1:7, the Blood of Christ cleanses us from sin and death.
"but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin," (1 John 1:7).


How does the EOC address these verses?

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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2013, 05:21:36 AM »

If so then why did some of the church fathers in the first four centuries of the Church reject the Apocrypha as Scripture.  

Jerome, Origen, Cyril of Jerusalem, and Athanasius also rejected it.

Don't forget that some Church Fathers also rejected James, Hebrews, etc. from the canon as well. Things were far from clear when it comes to the Bible canon in the early Church. (see this thread for quotes/references of these books in the early Church Fathers)  In the end most of the Catholics, Oriental Orthodox, and Eastern Orthodox accepted the deuterocanonical books on some level.

Quote
Tobit 6:5-7 Condones the use of magic

"Then the angel said to him: Take out the entrails of this fish, and lay up his heart, and his gall, and his liver for thee: for these are necessary for useful medicines. 6 And when he had done so, he roasted the flesh thereof, and they took it with them in the way: the rest they salted as much as might serve them, till they came to Rages the city of the Medes. 7 Then Tobias asked the angel, and said to him: I beseech thee, brother Azarias, tell me what remedies are these things good for, which thou hast bid me keep of the fish? 8 And the angel, answering, said to him: If thou put a little piece of its heart upon coals, the smoke thereof driveth away all kind of devils, either from man or from woman, so that they come no more to them."

Is it true that the smoke from a fish's heart, when burned, drives away evil spirits?

A question I have also asked, and which was tackled in this thread.

Quote
Tobit 4:11, "For alms deliver from all sin, and from death, and will not suffer the soul to go into darkness."  
Tobit 12:9, "For alms delivereth from death, and the same is that which purgeth away sins, and maketh to find mercy and life everlasting."

But according to 1 John 1:7, the Blood of Christ cleanses us from sin and death.
"but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin," (1 John 1:7).

This does not mean that the work of Jesus Christ is negated or can be circumvented. It only means that our activity has an impact on whether we are saved or not. Thus when St. Paul says:

"Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers." (1 Tim. 4:16)

...or when St. James says:

"My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins." (James 5:19-20)

... we do not understand these verses as negating the work of Christ. Rather, they work only because of the work that Christ has done for us as God-man.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 05:22:32 AM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2013, 05:49:16 AM »

Tobit 6:5-7 Condones the use of magic

"Then the angel said to him: Take out the entrails of this fish, and lay up his heart, and his gall, and his liver for thee: for these are necessary for useful medicines. 6 And when he had done so, he roasted the flesh thereof, and they took it with them in the way: the rest they salted as much as might serve them, till they came to Rages the city of the Medes. 7 Then Tobias asked the angel, and said to him: I beseech thee, brother Azarias, tell me what remedies are these things good for, which thou hast bid me keep of the fish? 8 And the angel, answering, said to him: If thou put a little piece of its heart upon coals, the smoke thereof driveth away all kind of devils, either from man or from woman, so that they come no more to them."


Not more magical than looking up to a brass snake to be cured of poison. And I always thought that the fish, as ichtys in Greek (Iesous Christos Theou Yiou Soter), was a typos for Christ.
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"And the Devil did grin, for his darling sin
is pride that apes humility."
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