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Author Topic: A Statement concerning the Entrance of the Theotokos Monastery  (Read 18855 times) Average Rating: 0
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Michał Kalina
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« on: August 14, 2012, 05:05:17 PM »

On Monday, August 13, the First Hierarch of the Russian Church Abroad, His Eminence Hilarion, Metropolitan of Eastern America & New York, released a statement regarding the Entrance of the Theotokos Monastery in Maryland...
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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2012, 07:27:34 PM »

Huh... well what will happen to them now? Will a Greek/EP group take them in? I don't know much of the background on them...
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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2012, 08:06:32 PM »

The sisters have also put out a pdf statement:

http://entranceofthetheotokos.org/2012/08/13/public-announcement/

I must admit that the flowery and overly spiritualized language is hard to get past.   She seems to use a lot of words to not say anything.
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2012, 12:27:47 AM »

This must be very hard for Abbess Aemiliani.  I believe she was asked to come back to the U.S. by Metropolitan Jonah, but I'm not sure.  She then united with Rocor, but she did say that it was hard for her to adjust to the Churches in this country.

I know in Greece she had established at least sixteen monasteries, some old ones and some new.  I heard of one monastery with only one monk, and he wondered what would happen to it after he died.  It seems though he had a dream, or something of that sort,   in which he was told that some women will come from the U.S. and re-establish it.   angel
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 07:42:09 AM »

My problem with this is, the canonical anomalies on this continent have become the norm,"We don't want you, despite the fact that their former primate wanted you, the OCA wouldn't take you, but go ahead and find yourself another group who will take you in, even though we don't want you because of 'Certain spiritual practices and reference to spiritual authority contained within the charter (a reference which apparently can't be changed) are at variance with the norms and tradition of ROCOR,' there don't seem to be canonical impediments, so shop around, see if you can coax the Church of Greece into this anomalous canonical environment."   Ah, the infamous "D.C. nuns," now we're all coming to appreciate some of the problems they posed to the OCA, the latest non-issue to have to devote our attention to in North America.
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« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2012, 09:56:35 AM »


I know in Greece she had established at least sixteen monasteries, some old ones and some new.  I heard of one monastery with only one monk, and he wondered what would happen to it after he died.  It seems though he had a dream, or something of that sort,   in which he was told that some women will come from the U.S. and re-establish it.   angel

Is there any documentation for these 16 new monastaries the Abbess established in Greece such as a list or web sites or a press release?  Did you know her in Greece?
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 11:34:22 AM »

For my money, I will stick with the nuns I know, the wonderful women of the Monastery of Myrhh-bearing Women of Otego, NY ( under the ompohor of His Grace Bishop Michael of NY/NJ)  and their kindly, pious, warm, humble and wonderful Abbess - Mother Raphaela who is celebrating the 40th anniversary of her monastic life and the 35th anniversary of the establishment of the monastery this month.

On Saturday, August 25th at Dormition Orthodox Church (OCA) in Binghamton, NY, His Grace Bishop Michael and five members of the OCA Synod, together with Archbishop Antony and Bishop Daniel of the UOC-USA will celebrate a Liturgy of Thanksgiving at 9:30 a.m. A local pan-Orthodox choir will provide the responses.

Following the liturgy, a Dinner in honor of Mother Raphaela and the Monastery will be held at nearby St. Michael's Center (ACROD).

Never controversial, never demanding, never condescending in their treatment of other Orthodox and always welcoming, our thoughts and prayers are with the good Sisters and the Abbess! Many Years! Axios!

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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 01:09:11 PM »

For my money, I will stick with the nuns I know, the wonderful women of the Monastery of Myrhh-bearing Women of Otego, NY ( under the ompohor of His Grace Bishop Michael of NY/NJ)  and their kindly, pious, warm, humble and wonderful Abbess - Mother Raphaela who is celebrating the 40th anniversary of her monastic life and the 35th anniversary of the establishment of the monastery this month.

On Saturday, August 25th at Dormition Orthodox Church (OCA) in Binghamton, NY, His Grace Bishop Michael and five members of the OCA Synod, together with Archbishop Antony and Bishop Daniel of the UOC-USA will celebrate a Liturgy of Thanksgiving at 9:30 a.m. A local pan-Orthodox choir will provide the responses.

Following the liturgy, a Dinner in honor of Mother Raphaela and the Monastery will be held at nearby St. Michael's Center (ACROD).

Never controversial, never demanding, never condescending in their treatment of other Orthodox and always welcoming, our thoughts and prayers are with the good Sisters and the Abbess! Many Years! Axios!



I agree, I've had nothing but praise for this holy monastery.  They were kind to download on floppy disks all their liturgical texts and I also had the pleasure of obtaining wool from their sheep to make prayer ropes.  Glad to see our bishops will be joining in the celebration for Mother Raphaela.



Correction made per poster request.  -PtA
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 02:43:09 PM »


I know in Greece she had established at least sixteen monasteries, some old ones and some new.  I heard of one monastery with only one monk, and he wondered what would happen to it after he died.  It seems though he had a dream, or something of that sort,   in which he was told that some women will come from the U.S. and reestablish it.   angel

Is there any documentation for these 16 new monasteries the Abbess established in Greece such as a list or web sites or a press release?  Did you know her in Greece?

I mentioned this to the person who told me nun Aemeliani had established and restored monasteries in Greece, (and who had personally visited three of them), and she said she was not certain if it was sixteen.  It might have been less so I should correct this before some weak individual jumps on it and says that Sister Aemeliani is going around lying.  When I wrote the amount, I might have been thinking of  the amount of monasteries established by the Elder Ephraim in the U.S.  If you want I can get the names of them and the location.

I do know Sister Aemeliani, but our connection is more spiritual than personal.  She did reside at times in the New York City area.   I don't know much about her except from heresay, since humility is a perquisite in monastics.  I believe her testimony is on the internet.  It does state that she was saved by the Elder Aemiliani, (a future saint) when he had bi located, (a spiritual gift), from Greece and that's probably why she had taken his name.   The only thing I heard her say is that she is having difficulty adjusting to the churches in this country. I assumed it  to mean that the Church of Greece has more spiritual depth.    Again though, these are my words and only my interpretation of what the Sister meant... and of course I might be wrong.   Undecided
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« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2012, 03:14:49 PM »

The sisters have also put out a pdf statement:

http://entranceofthetheotokos.org/2012/08/13/public-announcement/

I must admit that the flowery and overly spiritualized language is hard to get past.   She seems to use a lot of words to not say anything.

One has  to understand that she cannot in good conscience mention names, since denigrating anyone is a sin, so Sister Aemeliani has to beat around the bush... which then of course becomes confusing.  From what I gather she is under 'spiritual' attack, something that happens to everyone who dedicates themselves to God. 

One wonders why God allows calumny and slander, but it's to lessen ones pride and perfect ones soul...so it's  good for Christians to have a little discernment and not accept everything they hear so readily.   The best example of this would be what our greatest modern saint, Saint Nektarios of Aegina suffered from calumny and slander...And his suffering was from the Patriarch of Alexandria himself.  Believe it or not, the Patriarchate of Alexandria didn't apologize for what they did to him until about ten years ago. Angry
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« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2012, 04:09:25 PM »

Number 18 in the Abbess' letter doesn't sit right.  Lodging lawsuits and protecting honor?
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« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2012, 04:23:51 PM »

Neo-Orthodox / faux traditionalism rears its head...lawyers to protect honor and negotiate severance packages.  Maybe this is evil protestant influence, but WWJD? 
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2012, 04:51:00 PM »

I really hate it when I see statements written in the form of a list that aren't really lists.
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2012, 04:58:27 PM »

Quote
Quote from: Zenovia link=topic=46383.msg792096#msg792096
I know in Is there any documentation for these 16 new monasteries the Abbess established in Greece such as a list or web sites or a press release?  Did you know her in Greece?

I mentioned this to the person who told me nun Aemeliani had established and restored monasteries in Greece, (and who had personally visited three of them), and she said she was not certain if it was sixteen.  It might have been less so I should correct this before some weak individual jumps on it and says that Sister Aemeliani is going around lying.  When I wrote the amount, I might have been thinking of  the amount of monasteries established by the Elder Ephraim in the U.S.  If you want I can get the names of them and the location.


Thank you for the correction.  I am not asking about Fr. Ephraim's monasteries.
I went to the web site of the mother monastery in Greece but it has not been updated since 2011: http://www.fhc.org/ypsosis/holycrossmonastery/en/index.html

That is very odd indeed. Or perhaps they have a new web site?  Does anyone know of another web site?

quote tags & link fixed.  -S1389
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« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2012, 05:07:13 PM »

"6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? 4 If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life, do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren? 6 But brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers!

7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." - Paul, 1 Corinthians 6:1-11
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« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2012, 05:11:47 PM »

Number 18 in the Abbess' letter doesn't sit right.  Lodging lawsuits and protecting honor?

You're right.
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« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2012, 05:52:15 PM »

The sisters have also put out a pdf statement:

http://entranceofthetheotokos.org/2012/08/13/public-announcement/

I must admit that the flowery and overly spiritualized language is hard to get past.   She seems to use a lot of words to not say anything.

One has  to understand that she cannot in good conscience mention names, since denigrating anyone is a sin, so Sister Aemeliani has to beat around the bush... which then of course becomes confusing.  From what I gather she is under 'spiritual' attack, something that happens to everyone who dedicates themselves to God. 

One wonders why God allows calumny and slander, but it's to lessen ones pride and perfect ones soul...so it's  good for Christians to have a little discernment and not accept everything they hear so readily.   The best example of this would be what our greatest modern saint, Saint Nektarios of Aegina suffered from calumny and slander...And his suffering was from the Patriarch of Alexandria himself.  Believe it or not, the Patriarchate of Alexandria didn't apologize for what they did to him until about ten years ago. Angry


May be similar but not the same. I do not want to go into detail, but the published correspondence of this particular Abbess betrays some distinctly unorthodox positions.
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« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2012, 07:55:02 PM »

There is a big difference between someone like Saint Nektarios, or any bishop in the Orthodox Church, since the honor they would be protecting is only their own.  Sister Aemiliani is responsible for the honor and good name of all the sisters under her, and for the monastery itself.  

When I first read of the attack on her, my mind went to the usual comments said about monasteries in this country, 'they're taking money away from our churches'.  I figured, and I  might be wrong, that her 'problems' started when doners began appearing to cover the cost of the monastery.  What I find amazing, is how those in the Church who bow down to anyone and everyone for their own personal gain, are never attacked, but the minute someone appears with any intrigity, they end up fodder for every 'weak/slanderous'  individual.  

I haven't read the response from Sister Aemiliani so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing the law suit has to do with the property of the monastery.  I'm certain those who donated money towards it, will not want to see it go under anyone other than the nun they respect and admire, or to have it sold, especially if one of them might be her famous nephew, who happens to be the youngest person to ever have his name mentioned in the Music Hall of Fame.  Anyway I'm not certain about these things, I'm just guessing, but I'm usually right.   Wink

P.S. In case anyone's interested, here is an old interview of Sister Aemeliani:

http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/interview-sister-aemiliane/
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« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2012, 12:59:13 AM »

There is a big difference between someone like Saint Nektarios, or any bishop in the Orthodox Church, since the honor they would be protecting is only their own.  Sister Aemiliani is responsible for the honor and good name of all the sisters under her, and for the monastery itself.  

When I first read of the attack on her, my mind went to the usual comments said about monasteries in this country, 'they're taking money away from our churches'.  I figured, and I  might be wrong, that her 'problems' started when doners began appearing to cover the cost of the monastery.  What I find amazing, is how those in the Church who bow down to anyone and everyone for their own personal gain, are never attacked, but the minute someone appears with any intrigity, they end up fodder for every 'weak/slanderous'  individual.  

I haven't read the response from Sister Aemiliani so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing the law suit has to do with the property of the monastery.  I'm certain those who donated money towards it, will not want to see it go under anyone other than the nun they respect and admire, or to have it sold, especially if one of them might be her famous nephew, who happens to be the youngest person to ever have his name mentioned in the Music Hall of Fame.  Anyway I'm not certain about these things, I'm just guessing, but I'm usually right.   Wink

P.S. In case anyone's interested, here is an old interview of Sister Aemeliani:

http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/interview-sister-aemiliane/

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?
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« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2012, 01:51:43 AM »

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

They're Orthodox monastics, why would they be concerned about scripture or Christian ethics? 

My favorite is the nunnery is the one up the street from me that is engaged in a legal battle against sick children.  May reading this cleanse your nous. 
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« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2012, 02:58:21 AM »

Here's a video about the holy sisterhood.  UOC-MP FTW!
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« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2012, 07:49:49 AM »

There is a big difference between someone like Saint Nektarios, or any bishop in the Orthodox Church, since the honor they would be protecting is only their own.  Sister Aemiliani is responsible for the honor and good name of all the sisters under her, and for the monastery itself.  

When I first read of the attack on her, my mind went to the usual comments said about monasteries in this country, 'they're taking money away from our churches'.  I figured, and I  might be wrong, that her 'problems' started when doners began appearing to cover the cost of the monastery.  What I find amazing, is how those in the Church who bow down to anyone and everyone for their own personal gain, are never attacked, but the minute someone appears with any intrigity, they end up fodder for every 'weak/slanderous'  individual.  

I haven't read the response from Sister Aemiliani so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing the law suit has to do with the property of the monastery.  I'm certain those who donated money towards it, will not want to see it go under anyone other than the nun they respect and admire, or to have it sold, especially if one of them might be her famous nephew, who happens to be the youngest person to ever have his name mentioned in the Music Hall of Fame.  Anyway I'm not certain about these things, I'm just guessing, but I'm usually right.   Wink

P.S. In case anyone's interested, here is an old interview of Sister Aemeliani:

http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/interview-sister-aemiliane/

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

I would like to know as well.  Is there any justification for a cleric or monastic taking someone to civil court?  Kondratick took the OCA to court and won.  Was that justified by tradition?
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« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2012, 08:50:47 AM »

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

They're Orthodox monastics, why would they be concerned about scripture or Christian ethics? 

My favorite is the nunnery is the one up the street from me that is engaged in a legal battle against sick children.  May reading this cleanse your nous. 

Let's not be too hard on the concept of monasticism - again I will reference the good woman of Holy Myrrh-bearers in Otego and also pay homage to the sisters at Ellwood City, PA. Just as certain behavior by some priests and bishops may give fuel to anti-clerically minded folks, the same may be said of the behavior of some monastics. After all we are all human.

I will note that the three page letter here, which is tough to plow through, certainly seems as if it did not originate from someone whose first language is English based upon its flow and style. Perhaps somewhere there is a 'cultural disconnect'.
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« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2012, 10:57:45 AM »

After all we are all human.


Yes, but lets not forget, it is only "I" who am allowed to be human. Everyone else is expected to be paragons of virtue and perfection.  Wink
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« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2012, 11:37:05 AM »

There is a big difference between someone like Saint Nektarios, or any bishop in the Orthodox Church, since the honor they would be protecting is only their own.  Sister Aemiliani is responsible for the honor and good name of all the sisters under her, and for the monastery itself.  

When I first read of the attack on her, my mind went to the usual comments said about monasteries in this country, 'they're taking money away from our churches'.  I figured, and I  might be wrong, that her 'problems' started when doners began appearing to cover the cost of the monastery.  What I find amazing, is how those in the Church who bow down to anyone and everyone for their own personal gain, are never attacked, but the minute someone appears with any intrigity, they end up fodder for every 'weak/slanderous'  individual.  

I haven't read the response from Sister Aemiliani so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing the law suit has to do with the property of the monastery.  I'm certain those who donated money towards it, will not want to see it go under anyone other than the nun they respect and admire, or to have it sold, especially if one of them might be her famous nephew, who happens to be the youngest person to ever have his name mentioned in the Music Hall of Fame.  Anyway I'm not certain about these things, I'm just guessing, but I'm usually right.   Wink

P.S. In case anyone's interested, here is an old interview of Sister Aemeliani:

http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/interview-sister-aemiliane/

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

So then Sister Aemiliani shouldn't serve the Lord, nor should the nuns under her serve the Lord, but instead bow down to the wishes of the evil they're encountering?  Sometimes I wonder which god some people serve?  Huh

Anyway, Sister Aemeliani nor the nuns are taking anyone to court.  It's the people in charge of the finances of the monastery that are taking the case to court.  Does that answer your question?
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« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2012, 11:52:40 AM »

There is a big difference between someone like Saint Nektarios, or any bishop in the Orthodox Church, since the honor they would be protecting is only their own.  Sister Aemiliani is responsible for the honor and good name of all the sisters under her, and for the monastery itself.  

When I first read of the attack on her, my mind went to the usual comments said about monasteries in this country, 'they're taking money away from our churches'.  I figured, and I  might be wrong, that her 'problems' started when doners began appearing to cover the cost of the monastery.  What I find amazing, is how those in the Church who bow down to anyone and everyone for their own personal gain, are never attacked, but the minute someone appears with any intrigity, they end up fodder for every 'weak/slanderous'  individual.  

I haven't read the response from Sister Aemiliani so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing the law suit has to do with the property of the monastery.  I'm certain those who donated money towards it, will not want to see it go under anyone other than the nun they respect and admire, or to have it sold, especially if one of them might be her famous nephew, who happens to be the youngest person to ever have his name mentioned in the Music Hall of Fame.  Anyway I'm not certain about these things, I'm just guessing, but I'm usually right.   Wink

P.S. In case anyone's interested, here is an old interview of Sister Aemeliani:

http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/interview-sister-aemiliane/

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

So then Sister Aemiliani shouldn't serve the Lord, nor should the nuns under her serve the Lord, but instead bow down to the wishes of the evil they're encountering?  Sometimes I wonder which god some people serve?  Huh

Anyway, Sister Aemeliani nor the nuns are taking anyone to court.  It's the people in charge of the finances of the monastery that are taking the case to court.  Does that answer your question?

What's your source for this?  The document plainly states, "Our Holy Monastery is lodging the relevant lawsuits and charges in the appropriate courts..."

It sounds to me like the nuns are the ones doing the suing.  I'm going to be keeping an eye on this in the future to see whose name is on the complaint(s).
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« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2012, 12:11:10 PM »


Anyway, Sister Aemeliani nor the nuns are taking anyone to court.  It's the people in charge of the finances of the monastery that are taking the case to court.  Does that answer your question?

I had thought that the Abbess was in charge of a monastery, to include people in charge of the finances. My bad.
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« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2012, 12:24:48 PM »

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

They're Orthodox monastics, why would they be concerned about scripture or Christian ethics? 

My favorite is the nunnery is the one up the street from me that is engaged in a legal battle against sick children.  May reading this cleanse your nous. 


et's not be too hard on the concept of monasticism - again I will reference the good woman of Holy Myrrh-bearers in Otego and also pay homage to the sisters at Ellwood City, PA. Just as certain behavior by some priests and bishops may give fuel to anti-clerically minded folks, the same may be said of the behavior of some monastics. After all we are all human.

I will note that the three page letter here, which is tough to plow through, certainly seems as if it did not originate from someone whose first language is English based upon its flow and style. Perhaps somewhere there is a 'cultural disconnect'.

Melanie Hanson is certainly an American, and a highly educated one since she was attending Harvard at the time of her conversion.  Her style of writing has always been difficult though to understand, and now I guess even more so  since as a nun, she has to refrain from anything that might denigrate or slander another person... even though their actions might be criminal.

She can't say anything that would give credence to herself, since that would be prideful, and by the same token, she can't say anything too good about another, because it might give 'pride' to them, and arousing pride would be causing them to sin.  So what she is stuck with,  is simply mentioning the titles and positions of others rather than their names, and that can be  confusing.   

As for monasteries, the Orthodox Church in constrast to the RCC is and has always been a monastic faith.  Monastacism is the essence of the Orthodox Church, and without it, would become nothing more that a Protestant faith with a little 'Byzantine' window dressing.  That Sister Aemiliani is not conforming to  the common cloistered nunneries  of the Orthodox Church, does have a precedence in Saint Elizabeth, Grand Duchess Sergius Alexandrovich.  She was given the right by the Metropolitan of Russia before the revolution because of her position as the Tsars aunt and sister in law. 
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« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2012, 12:34:18 PM »

There is a big difference between someone like Saint Nektarios, or any bishop in the Orthodox Church, since the honor they would be protecting is only their own.  Sister Aemiliani is responsible for the honor and good name of all the sisters under her, and for the monastery itself.  

When I first read of the attack on her, my mind went to the usual comments said about monasteries in this country, 'they're taking money away from our churches'.  I figured, and I  might be wrong, that her 'problems' started when doners began appearing to cover the cost of the monastery.  What I find amazing, is how those in the Church who bow down to anyone and everyone for their own personal gain, are never attacked, but the minute someone appears with any intrigity, they end up fodder for every 'weak/slanderous'  individual.  

I haven't read the response from Sister Aemiliani so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing the law suit has to do with the property of the monastery.  I'm certain those who donated money towards it, will not want to see it go under anyone other than the nun they respect and admire, or to have it sold, especially if one of them might be her famous nephew, who happens to be the youngest person to ever have his name mentioned in the Music Hall of Fame.  Anyway I'm not certain about these things, I'm just guessing, but I'm usually right.   Wink

P.S. In case anyone's interested, here is an old interview of Sister Aemeliani:

http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/interview-sister-aemiliane/

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

So then Sister Aemiliani shouldn't serve the Lord, nor should the nuns under her serve the Lord, but instead bow down to the wishes of the evil they're encountering?  Sometimes I wonder which god some people serve?  Huh

Anyway, Sister Aemeliani nor the nuns are taking anyone to court.  It's the people in charge of the finances of the monastery that are taking the case to court.  Does that answer your question?

What's your source for this?  The document plainly states, "Our Holy Monastery is lodging the relevant lawsuits and charges in the appropriate courts..."

It sounds to me like the nuns are the ones doing the suing.  I'm going to be keeping an eye on this in the future to see whose name is on the complaint(s).

I'm sure the people who are covering the costs of the monastery do not want to see it taken away from the nuns because of malice from some evil individuals, and would want to see them continue serving the Lord.   Wouldn't you? Huh

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« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2012, 01:31:43 PM »

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

They're Orthodox monastics, why would they be concerned about scripture or Christian ethics? 

My favorite is the nunnery is the one up the street from me that is engaged in a legal battle against sick children.  May reading this cleanse your nous. 

Those nuns should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves; and given what they have done, should seriously considering dropping the lawsuit and moving into the church to pray for their souls.
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« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2012, 01:35:06 PM »



Why don't they just pack up and go back to their mother monastery in Greece?  That is where they belong since they are not under the jurisdiction of any Orthodox Church over here.
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« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2012, 02:29:38 PM »

There is a big difference between someone like Saint Nektarios, or any bishop in the Orthodox Church, since the honor they would be protecting is only their own.  Sister Aemiliani is responsible for the honor and good name of all the sisters under her, and for the monastery itself.  

When I first read of the attack on her, my mind went to the usual comments said about monasteries in this country, 'they're taking money away from our churches'.  I figured, and I  might be wrong, that her 'problems' started when doners began appearing to cover the cost of the monastery.  What I find amazing, is how those in the Church who bow down to anyone and everyone for their own personal gain, are never attacked, but the minute someone appears with any intrigity, they end up fodder for every 'weak/slanderous'  individual.  

I haven't read the response from Sister Aemiliani so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing the law suit has to do with the property of the monastery.  I'm certain those who donated money towards it, will not want to see it go under anyone other than the nun they respect and admire, or to have it sold, especially if one of them might be her famous nephew, who happens to be the youngest person to ever have his name mentioned in the Music Hall of Fame.  Anyway I'm not certain about these things, I'm just guessing, but I'm usually right.   Wink

P.S. In case anyone's interested, here is an old interview of Sister Aemeliani:

http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/interview-sister-aemiliane/

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

So then Sister Aemiliani shouldn't serve the Lord, nor should the nuns under her serve the Lord, but instead bow down to the wishes of the evil they're encountering?  Sometimes I wonder which god some people serve?  Huh

Anyway, Sister Aemeliani nor the nuns are taking anyone to court.  It's the people in charge of the finances of the monastery that are taking the case to court.  Does that answer your question?

What's your source for this?  The document plainly states, "Our Holy Monastery is lodging the relevant lawsuits and charges in the appropriate courts..."

It sounds to me like the nuns are the ones doing the suing.  I'm going to be keeping an eye on this in the future to see whose name is on the complaint(s).

I'm sure the people who are covering the costs of the monastery do not want to see it taken away from the nuns because of malice from some evil individuals, and would want to see them continue serving the Lord.   Wouldn't you? Huh



I'm sure there are.  But they're not in charge nor should they be using the phrase, "Our Holy Monastery..."

This letter came from the Abbess, not from the financial backers.
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« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2012, 02:31:46 PM »



Why don't they just pack up and go back to their mother monastery in Greece?  That is where they belong since they are not under the jurisdiction of any Orthodox Church over here.
I thought of that, too.  Or the Greeks here.
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2012, 02:33:41 PM »

FYI...

The nuns showed up at our Church last Sunday. Their Priest will be serving with us until further notice.

I assume they will be attending every Sunday until things are cleared up.

It was nice having them.
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« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2012, 02:46:31 PM »

Yes, there is something odd about Greeks who avoid other Greeks.   laugh

But, seriously, there is a canonical problem with the whole situation.  A monastery is presided over by the Bishop, not by an 'elder.'  The abbess is supposed to be answerable to her bishop, and no one else.  Let's remember the 'chain of command' in the Church: who supervises Elder Dionysios?  Why his bishop does!  This means that one monastery would have two bishops responsible for its spiritual well-being?

It was strange that ROCOR would have received them to begin with having this rather large caveat in their obedience, where 'loyalty to the death' with Metropolitan Hilarion would not naturally include unreserved obedience.

We live in strange times.




Why don't they just pack up and go back to their mother monastery in Greece?  That is where they belong since they are not under the jurisdiction of any Orthodox Church over here.
I thought of that, too.  Or the Greeks here.
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« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2012, 02:56:49 PM »

There is a big difference between someone like Saint Nektarios, or any bishop in the Orthodox Church, since the honor they would be protecting is only their own.  Sister Aemiliani is responsible for the honor and good name of all the sisters under her, and for the monastery itself.  

When I first read of the attack on her, my mind went to the usual comments said about monasteries in this country, 'they're taking money away from our churches'.  I figured, and I  might be wrong, that her 'problems' started when doners began appearing to cover the cost of the monastery.  What I find amazing, is how those in the Church who bow down to anyone and everyone for their own personal gain, are never attacked, but the minute someone appears with any intrigity, they end up fodder for every 'weak/slanderous'  individual.  

I haven't read the response from Sister Aemiliani so I can't be certain, but I'm guessing the law suit has to do with the property of the monastery.  I'm certain those who donated money towards it, will not want to see it go under anyone other than the nun they respect and admire, or to have it sold, especially if one of them might be her famous nephew, who happens to be the youngest person to ever have his name mentioned in the Music Hall of Fame.  Anyway I'm not certain about these things, I'm just guessing, but I'm usually right.   Wink

P.S. In case anyone's interested, here is an old interview of Sister Aemeliani:

http://silouanthompson.net/2009/04/interview-sister-aemiliane/

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

So then Sister Aemiliani shouldn't serve the Lord, nor should the nuns under her serve the Lord, but instead bow down to the wishes of the evil they're encountering?  Sometimes I wonder which god some people serve?  Huh

Anyway, Sister Aemeliani nor the nuns are taking anyone to court.  It's the people in charge of the finances of the monastery that are taking the case to court.  Does that answer your question?

What makes you think the Abbess of a monastery doesn't have any control over "the people in charge of the finances of the monastery?"  Schultz is probably more informed about this than I am, but I don't think that a finance department of an organization can sue someone, independent of the organization as a whole.

Anyways, thanks for not answering my question.
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« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2012, 02:56:49 PM »

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

They're Orthodox monastics, why would they be concerned about scripture or Christian ethics? 

My favorite is the nunnery is the one up the street from me that is engaged in a legal battle against sick children.  May reading this cleanse your nous. 


et's not be too hard on the concept of monasticism - again I will reference the good woman of Holy Myrrh-bearers in Otego and also pay homage to the sisters at Ellwood City, PA. Just as certain behavior by some priests and bishops may give fuel to anti-clerically minded folks, the same may be said of the behavior of some monastics. After all we are all human.

I will note that the three page letter here, which is tough to plow through, certainly seems as if it did not originate from someone whose first language is English based upon its flow and style. Perhaps somewhere there is a 'cultural disconnect'.

Melanie Hanson is certainly an American, and a highly educated one since she was attending Harvard at the time of her conversion.  Her style of writing has always been difficult though to understand, and now I guess even more so  since as a nun, she has to refrain from anything that might denigrate or slander another person... even though their actions might be criminal.

She can't say anything that would give credence to herself, since that would be prideful, and by the same token, she can't say anything too good about another, because it might give 'pride' to them, and arousing pride would be causing them to sin.  So what she is stuck with,  is simply mentioning the titles and positions of others rather than their names, and that can be  confusing.   

As for monasteries, the Orthodox Church in constrast to the RCC is and has always been a monastic faith.  Monastacism is the essence of the Orthodox Church, and without it, would become nothing more that a Protestant faith with a little 'Byzantine' window dressing.  That Sister Aemiliani is not conforming to  the common cloistered nunneries  of the Orthodox Church, does have a precedence in Saint Elizabeth, Grand Duchess Sergius Alexandrovich.  She was given the right by the Metropolitan of Russia before the revolution because of her position as the Tsars aunt and sister in law. 


So Orthodoxy was Protestant in the first century?
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« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2012, 03:41:03 PM »

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

They're Orthodox monastics, why would they be concerned about scripture or Christian ethics? 

My favorite is the nunnery is the one up the street from me that is engaged in a legal battle against sick children.  May reading this cleanse your nous. 

Let's not be too hard on the concept of monasticism - again I will reference the good woman of Holy Myrrh-bearers in Otego and also pay homage to the sisters at Ellwood City, PA. Just as certain behavior by some priests and bishops may give fuel to anti-clerically minded folks, the same may be said of the behavior of some monastics. After all we are all human.

I will note that the three page letter here, which is tough to plow through, certainly seems as if it did not originate from someone whose first language is English based upon its flow and style. Perhaps somewhere there is a 'cultural disconnect'.

Modern monasticism needs a St. Nil Sorski.  We're at almost the same crossroads as that era.  It looks like we're making the wrong choice yet again.   
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« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2012, 05:10:04 PM »

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

They're Orthodox monastics, why would they be concerned about scripture or Christian ethics? 

My favorite is the nunnery is the one up the street from me that is engaged in a legal battle against sick children.  May reading this cleanse your nous. 


et's not be too hard on the concept of monasticism - again I will reference the good woman of Holy Myrrh-bearers in Otego and also pay homage to the sisters at Ellwood City, PA. Just as certain behavior by some priests and bishops may give fuel to anti-clerically minded folks, the same may be said of the behavior of some monastics. After all we are all human.

I will note that the three page letter here, which is tough to plow through, certainly seems as if it did not originate from someone whose first language is English based upon its flow and style. Perhaps somewhere there is a 'cultural disconnect'.

Melanie Hanson is certainly an American, and a highly educated one since she was attending Harvard at the time of her conversion.  Her style of writing has always been difficult though to understand, and now I guess even more so  since as a nun, she has to refrain from anything that might denigrate or slander another person... even though their actions might be criminal.

She can't say anything that would give credence to herself, since that would be prideful, and by the same token, she can't say anything too good about another, because it might give 'pride' to them, and arousing pride would be causing them to sin.  So what she is stuck with,  is simply mentioning the titles and positions of others rather than their names, and that can be  confusing.   

As for monasteries, the Orthodox Church in constrast to the RCC is and has always been a monastic faith.  Monastacism is the essence of the Orthodox Church, and without it, would become nothing more that a Protestant faith with a little 'Byzantine' window dressing.  That Sister Aemiliani is not conforming to  the common cloistered nunneries  of the Orthodox Church, does have a precedence in Saint Elizabeth, Grand Duchess Sergius Alexandrovich.  She was given the right by the Metropolitan of Russia before the revolution because of her position as the Tsars aunt and sister in law. 


So Orthodoxy was Protestant in the first century?

The culture of Christianity in the  'Hellenized' Middle East, would have no more resemblance to the culture that produced Northern European Protestantism, than Greek would have to German,  so I don't know where people get their 'elitist' ideas about the original Church  resembling Protestant Churches.  Look I'm not denigrating any Christian faith as long as they are true to their Christian foundation and beliefs, and I feel we should be in awe of our all knowing God, and how adaptable our Christian faith is to all cultures.  Let's not mistake though the necessities of one and the depth of one, with the necessities and depth of another...after all East is East and West is West.   
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« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2012, 05:44:10 PM »

Yes, there is something odd about Greeks who avoid other Greeks.   laugh

But, seriously, there is a canonical problem with the whole situation.  A monastery is presided over by the Bishop, not by an 'elder.'  The abbess is supposed to be answerable to her bishop, and no one else.  Let's remember the 'chain of command' in the Church: who supervises Elder Dionysios?  Why his bishop does!  This means that one monastery would have two bishops responsible for its spiritual well-being?

It was strange that ROCOR would have received them to begin with having this rather large caveat in their obedience, where 'loyalty to the death' with Metropolitan Hilarion would not naturally include unreserved obedience.

We live in strange times.




Why don't they just pack up and go back to their mother monastery in Greece?  That is where they belong since they are not under the jurisdiction of any Orthodox Church over here.
I thought of that, too.  Or the Greeks here.

Now look at this part of Sister Aemeliani's response:


"...13. The First Hierarch gave us Holy Communion and his blessing to receive Holy Communion in Orthodox churches.
14. Also, the First Hierarch said that Abbess Aemiliane and Archimandrite Serapheim did not violate any laws.
 15. However, at the same time, he said that ROCOR cannot continue to protect our Monastery under his Omophore, because of the aforementioned hieromonk, who was serving the Divine Liturgy at the Monastery under his blessing...."


It seems to me the Metropolitan Hilarion is confused and frightened, because he is contradicting himself.  So Sister Aemiliane is right, there is a climate of fear, and that would be demonic.  Why is she being attacked?  Only saints or those who are doing God's work are attacked...or so I believe?
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« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2012, 06:30:27 PM »

Dear Zenovia,

Now, compair this with the official statement of Metropolitan Hilarion:

Certain spiritual practices and references to spiritual authority contained within the charter of the monastery are at variance with the norms and traditions of ROCOR.

Read it here: http://eadiocese.org/News/2012/aug/08.29.12%20DC%20Convent%20Statement.pdf

I don't think the nuns are 'under attack,' but rather have practices which are at variance both with the policies of ROCOR and the Holy Canons.  The nuns are not be persecuted, tortured, imprisoned, dispossessed, starved, excommunicated, slandered, oppressed, or even laughed at by ROCOR.  They are being released in the most gentle and reasonable way.


Yes, there is something odd about Greeks who avoid other Greeks.   laugh

But, seriously, there is a canonical problem with the whole situation.  A monastery is presided over by the Bishop, not by an 'elder.'  The abbess is supposed to be answerable to her bishop, and no one else.  Let's remember the 'chain of command' in the Church: who supervises Elder Dionysios?  Why his bishop does!  This means that one monastery would have two bishops responsible for its spiritual well-being?

It was strange that ROCOR would have received them to begin with having this rather large caveat in their obedience, where 'loyalty to the death' with Metropolitan Hilarion would not naturally include unreserved obedience.

We live in strange times.




Why don't they just pack up and go back to their mother monastery in Greece?  That is where they belong since they are not under the jurisdiction of any Orthodox Church over here.
I thought of that, too.  Or the Greeks here.

Now look at this part of Sister Aemeliani's response:


"...13. The First Hierarch gave us Holy Communion and his blessing to receive Holy Communion in Orthodox churches.
14. Also, the First Hierarch said that Abbess Aemiliane and Archimandrite Serapheim did not violate any laws.
 15. However, at the same time, he said that ROCOR cannot continue to protect our Monastery under his Omophore, because of the aforementioned hieromonk, who was serving the Divine Liturgy at the Monastery under his blessing...."


It seems to me the Metropolitan Hilarion is confused and frightened, because he is contradicting himself.  So Sister Aemiliane is right, there is a climate of fear, and that would be demonic.  Why is she being attacked?  Only saints or those who are doing God's work are attacked...or so I believe?
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« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2012, 07:23:20 PM »

And how does this square with the passage I quoted from St. Paul?

They're Orthodox monastics, why would they be concerned about scripture or Christian ethics? 

My favorite is the nunnery is the one up the street from me that is engaged in a legal battle against sick children.  May reading this cleanse your nous. 

Let's not be too hard on the concept of monasticism - again I will reference the good woman of Holy Myrrh-bearers in Otego and also pay homage to the sisters at Ellwood City, PA. Just as certain behavior by some priests and bishops may give fuel to anti-clerically minded folks, the same may be said of the behavior of some monastics. After all we are all human.

I will note that the three page letter here, which is tough to plow through, certainly seems as if it did not originate from someone whose first language is English based upon its flow and style. Perhaps somewhere there is a 'cultural disconnect'.

Modern monasticism needs a St. Nil Sorski.  We're at almost the same crossroads as that era.  It looks like we're making the wrong choice yet again.   

Νεκτάριος  - I went and read an Ortho-wiki article on St. Nilus and perhaps I have the wrong saint, but I failing to connect the dots. 

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Nilus_of_Sora

Quote
Nilus, his followers, and disciples lived a simple, relatively obscure, and peaceful life, far different from the large and wealth monastic institutions that had become a part of the Russian culture. For Nilus, these developments were signs of the Church losing its way, as greed and lust for power and control grew within the church hierarchy. His teachings differed from the norms of church life of the time. He developed mystical and ascetical ideas along the lines of hesychasm that asked believers to concentrate on their inner world and personal experiences of faith as means for achieving unity with God.
 

How has American Monasticism become an institution that has lost its way with greed and lust for power?  In my opinion American Orthodox monasticism is still in its infancy.  Can you help me out here?

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« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2012, 07:30:29 PM »

Since the trouble seems to be the hieromonk who was serving at this monastery, one would presume that the Abbess would long since have sent that hieromonk away.

But nothing in the documents indicates that the hieromonk has been sent away.

Isn't that extremely odd?

The Fathers do say of elective lawsuits that the moment a person turns to a law court for help and safety, he instantly forfeits God's help and safety. I say that to inform, not to condemn anyone, since these matters can be complex and we no longer have the same recourse to ecclesiastical courts which existed in the past. 
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« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2012, 08:19:15 PM »


As for monasteries, the Orthodox Church in constrast to the RCC is and has always been a monastic faith.  Monastacism is the essence of the Orthodox Church, and without it, would become nothing more that a Protestant faith with a little 'Byzantine' window dressing.    


This is the first time that I have heard of this. I guess all of the laos in my little corner of the world, my parish, is full of non-essential people, except of course for our three nuns.
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« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2012, 09:50:15 PM »


Sister Amiliani has done a great many things in Greece for the glory of God,  and now wants to  serve God in the country of her birth.   God might be allowing this persecution because he wants her to place the monastery under the Church of Greece in this country.  Who knows? Huh
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