Author Topic: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli  (Read 2838 times)

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Offline Justin Kissel

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Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« on: August 10, 2012, 01:56:00 PM »
"And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?' which is translated, 'My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?'" (Mark 15:34)

"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, 'Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?' that is, 'My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?'" (Matt. 27:46)

Eloi Eloi vs. Eli Eli ... which is more correct, or are they both equally correct?
 

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2012, 02:21:38 PM »
Those seem to be different spelling of the same word ("My God" in Hebrew and Aramaic). In contemporary Greek, and quite possibly already in Koine times, omikron iota is pronounced like English "ee".

Offline Azul

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2012, 02:27:13 PM »
isn`t eloi / eli an abbreviation of some sort for "elohim" ?
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2012, 02:47:07 PM »
isn`t eloi / eli an abbreviation of some sort for "elohim" ?

El = god + i = my

Offline Azul

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2012, 02:51:23 PM »
isn`t eloi / eli an abbreviation of some sort for "elohim" ?

El = god + i = my

what language?

the hebrew plural God word is Elohim.. If that is what it is used in there (Jesus was a hebrew) than he ment the fullness of divinity (i.e the Trinity)..
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2012, 02:52:04 PM »
isn`t eloi / eli an abbreviation of some sort for "elohim" ?

El = god + i = my

Hey Gorazd, aren't you a German speaker?

My conversational German, let's be honest, German period, has gone to hell. Do mind posting everything you write in German as well, so that I can keep up the Bahnhofdeutsch I have left?

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Offline Azul

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 02:57:51 PM »
I heard a priest say that Eli/Eloi was a diminutive like "tati" .  In romanian we have the word for father - tata , and affectively we say tati, which is also taken as "my father" ..
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 04:40:11 PM »
Hebrew...or Aramaic?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2012, 04:49:35 PM »
I heard a priest say that Eli/Eloi was a diminutive like "tati" .  In romanian we have the word for father - tata , and affectively we say tati, which is also taken as "my father" ..
No, it's not a diminutive form.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2012, 04:57:15 PM »
Hebrew...or Aramaic?
Mark is Aramaic, Matthew either Hebrew influenced Aramaic or Aramaic influenced Hebrew.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Azul

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2012, 05:09:23 PM »
I heard a priest say that Eli/Eloi was a diminutive like "tati" .  In romanian we have the word for father - tata , and affectively we say tati, which is also taken as "my father" ..
No, it's not a diminutive form.

Than what? The names for God beggining with E that i know are El and Elohim and none of these forms happen in there.
Every formula of every religion has in this age of reason, to submit to the acid test of reason and universal assent.
Mahatma Gandhi

Offline sheenj

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 05:12:04 PM »
I heard a priest say that Eli/Eloi was a diminutive like "tati" .  In romanian we have the word for father - tata , and affectively we say tati, which is also taken as "my father" ..
No, it's not a diminutive form.

Than what? The names for God beggining with E that i know are El and Elohim and none of these forms happen in there.
It's a suffix meaning "my".

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 06:06:10 PM »
The best explanation I read was that Jesus more likely said "Eli" than "Eloi" because the people thought He was calling for Elijah. I think that in Hebrew, Elijah is pronounced "Elia".

"Eli" sounds more like "Elia" than "Eloi" does, so it seems more likely He said "Eli".

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 06:21:26 PM »
I heard a priest say that Eli/Eloi was a diminutive like "tati" .  In romanian we have the word for father - tata , and affectively we say tati, which is also taken as "my father" ..
No, it's not a diminutive form.

Than what? The names for God beggining with E that i know are El and Elohim and none of these forms happen in there.
Think of the the change from "stea" to "stelei" or "cal" and caii"

Btw, it should be noted that we are not talking about Hebrew or Aramaic, but a Greek transcription of Hebrew or Aramaic.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Gamliel

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 09:02:13 PM »
"Eli" is Hebrew.  "Eloi" is Aramaic.  The rest of the phrase is Aramaic.

Offline Gorazd

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Re: Eloi, Eloi Vs. Eli, Eli
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2012, 01:13:50 AM »
My conversational German, let's be honest, German period, has gone to hell. Do mind posting everything you write in German as well, so that I can keep up the Bahnhofdeutsch I have left?

I would be glad to help you via PN, but posting everything in 2 languages would probably disturb the other users around here.

Than what? The names for God beggining with E that i know are El and Elohim and none of these forms happen in there.
It is the name "El". Adding -i to it means "my".