88Devin12
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« on: August 07, 2012, 11:38:01 AM » |
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http://youtu.be/epwznxJ8zaEWhat in the world was the Priest thinking? It is good to at least see Putin retracting his hand recognizing that was a wrong gesture.
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 12:04:03 PM » |
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Schultz
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 12:06:29 PM » |
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I called it a while ago. Mark my words. There will be a sizable contingent that will seek to glorify Putin once he dies.
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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OrthoNoob
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 12:09:50 PM » |
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A true monarchist would recognize Russia's rightful Empress and not accord royal honors to Putin.
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jewish voice
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 12:11:12 PM » |
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I love the look on Putin's face
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scamandrius
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 12:22:26 PM » |
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I called it a while ago. Mark my words. There will be a sizable contingent that will seek to glorify Putin once he dies.
Like those that have made icons of Josef Stalin and tried to have him glorified as a saint of the Orthodox church. |
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I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius Those who do not read history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene http://myorthodoxjourney.blogspot.com/ |
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88Devin12
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 12:54:47 PM » |
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I called it a while ago. Mark my words. There will be a sizable contingent that will seek to glorify Putin once he dies.
Not saying I would support it, but what would be the difference between glorifying him and glorifying Constantine or Vladimir the Great? Sure those men did terrible things, but they also did a lot for the Church. While it seems ridiculous to most of us, there is definitely precedence for it. |
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Michał Kalina
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 12:57:30 PM » |
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And what has Putin done for the Church?
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole.  Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 01:08:29 PM » |
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Not saying I would support it, but what would be the difference between glorifying him and glorifying Constantine or Vladimir the Great?
They were gentiles. |
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88Devin12
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 01:10:13 PM » |
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And what has Putin done for the Church?
Not saying he himself has done a lot, but some people could make the argument (whether right or wrong) that he was partially responsible for the resurgence of the Church & the reconstruction/construction of thousands of Churches in Russia. |
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88Devin12
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 01:11:02 PM » |
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Not saying I would support it, but what would be the difference between glorifying him and glorifying Constantine or Vladimir the Great?
They were gentiles. I don't really understand what you are saying, they both were baptized during their lives, and were Orthodox Christians. |
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 01:17:13 PM » |
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I don't really understand what you are saying, they both were baptized during their lives, and were Orthodox Christians.
There is a difference between Orthodox Russia and Pagan Rome or Pagan Kiev, even counting in Communism. |
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88Devin12
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 01:19:05 PM » |
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I don't really understand what you are saying, they both were baptized during their lives, and were Orthodox Christians.
There is a difference between Orthodox Russia and Pagan Rome or Pagan Kiev, even counting in Communism. That is very true... Like I said, I'm not in support of that cause, but I'm saying it isn't entirely impossible, especially when it is the Russian Church alone which would be responsible for canonizing him. |
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 01:55:44 PM » |
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A true monarchist would recognize Russia's rightful Empress and not accord royal honors to Putin.
You are right of course. But, will that stop Putin or his supporters? |
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age234
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 02:02:05 PM » |
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Maybe the priest was taking a fool-for-Christ track and was actually making an anti-Putin statement. Either way, I enjoy the look of horror on Putin's face.
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2012, 02:22:59 PM » |
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This has increased my respect for Putin by 10%.
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vamrat
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« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2012, 02:35:30 PM » |
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A true monarchist would recognize Russia's rightful Empress and not accord royal honors to Putin.
You are right of course. But, will that stop Putin or his supporters? Does the pope poop in the woods? Of course it will not stop us! Ave Putin! |
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It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
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Alpo
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« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2012, 02:40:37 PM » |
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Maybe the priest was taking a fool-for-Christ track and was actually making an anti-Putin statement. Either way, I enjoy the look of horror on Putin's face.
Yes, that would be the most probable option. |
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Just a little reminder: this forum is not called OrthodoxChristianityUSA.net   |
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Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
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« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2012, 03:58:00 PM » |
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Does he look pissed off or embarrassed? I can't tell.
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“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
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serb1389
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« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2012, 04:14:31 PM » |
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And what has Putin done for the Church?
the source of all knowledge & wisdom: wikipedia: The vast construction and restoration of churches, started in 1990s, continued under Putin, and the state allowed the teaching of religion in schools (parents are provided with a choice for their children to learn the basics of one of the traditional religions or secular ethics). His approach to religious policy has been characterised as one of support for religious freedoms, but also the attempt to unify different religions under the authority of the state.[155]
Putin meeting with religious leaders of Russia in 2001
Putin regularly attends the most important services of the Russian Orthodox Church on the main Orthodox Christian holidays. He established a good relationship with Patriarchs of the Russian Church, the late Alexy II of Moscow and the current Kirill of Moscow. As President, he took an active personal part in promoting the Act of Canonical Communion with the Moscow Patriarchate, signed 17 May 2007 that restored relations between the Moscow-based Russian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia after the 80-year schism.[156]
Putin and United Russia enjoy high electoral support in the national republics of Russia, in particular in the Muslim-majority republics of Povolzhye and the North Caucasus. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Religious_and_national_policy |
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I got nothing. I forgot the maps March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that |
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 04:15:14 PM » |
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He looks freaked out to me, like he's almost visibly shaking from being wierded out.
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Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
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« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 07:19:05 PM » |
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He looks freaked out to me, like he's almost visibly shaking from being wierded out.
Right; that hand-kissing was entirely too early in Putin's timeline. |
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jewish voice
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« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2012, 07:19:58 AM » |
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And what has Putin done for the Church?
What  how can you even say that. As of right now he's got them pesky cutie Pussy Riot punk group on trail for there acts done in the Church. Isn't that enough for you right there Michal  |
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vamrat
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« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2012, 09:38:07 AM » |
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And what has Putin done for the Church?
What how can you even say that. As of right now he's got them pesky cutie Pussy Riot punk group on trail for there acts done in the Church. Isn't that enough for you right there Michal Hopefully they are on a trail of tears ending in Siberia. |
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It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
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Michał Kalina
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« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2012, 01:49:12 PM » |
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Hopefully they are on a trail of tears ending in Siberia.
Does that mean WASPs should send all EO converts to Guantanamo? Are you packed already? |
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole. Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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OrthoNoob
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« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2012, 01:53:39 PM » |
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Hopefully they are on a trail of tears ending in Siberia.
Does that mean WASPs should send all EO converts to Guantanamo? Are you packed already? Even leaving aside the important distinction between true and false religions, converting to a different faith is not on a level with entering a holy site and committing gross sacrilege and blasphemy. Do you honestly think my not being Catholic is the same sort of thing as if I walked into a Catholic church, marched up to the altar, and began insulting the Catholic religion and calumniating the holy figures of Catholicism? |
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Michał Kalina
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« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2012, 02:08:28 PM » |
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Do you honestly think my not being Catholic is the same sort of thing as if I walked into a Catholic church, marched up to the altar, and began insulting the Catholic religion and calumniating the holy figures of Catholicism?
Those women did not march in the altar, did not insult the Orthodox Church and did not calumniate the holy figures of Orthodoxy. |
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole. Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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JamesRottnek
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« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2012, 02:09:12 PM » |
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Maybe the priest was taking a fool-for-Christ track and was actually making an anti-Putin statement. Either way, I enjoy the look of horror on Putin's face.
I sincerely hope so. |
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I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?
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American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.
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OrthoNoob
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« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2012, 02:21:48 PM » |
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Do you honestly think my not being Catholic is the same sort of thing as if I walked into a Catholic church, marched up to the altar, and began insulting the Catholic religion and calumniating the holy figures of Catholicism?
Those women did not march in the altar, did not insult the Orthodox Church and did not calumniate the holy figures of Orthodoxy. Is Archbishop Cranmer's statement in the third paragraph of this post ( http://archbishop-cranmer.blogspot.com/2012/08/free-pussy-riot.html), which I would reproduce except that these are the public forums and I don't know the rules about profanity here, inaccurate, then? Admittedly, they were at least (from what I can tell) on the people's side of the iconostasis, but if they sang what it appears Cranmer said they sang (his wording is not the clearest), they insulted Patriarch Kyrill and the Mother of God, and, of course, committed an act of extreme disrespect by staging their performance (its content aside) in the Cathedral at all, much less immediately in front of the iconostasis, and (though correct me if I've misapprehended), if I'm not mistaken, the Royal Gates themselves. In any case, one can hardly claim a "right" to enter a church and perform any kind of music against the wishes of church authorities, can one? |
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« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 02:22:25 PM by OrthoNoob »
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Michał Kalina
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« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2012, 02:40:43 PM » |
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They did not insult Theotokos. And Patriarch Cyrill is not "a holy figure of Orthodoxy".
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole. Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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vamrat
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« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2012, 02:56:47 PM » |
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Hopefully they are on a trail of tears ending in Siberia.
Does that mean WASPs should send all EO converts to Guantanamo? Are you packed already? Non sequitor. EO converts are not Rioting Cats Besides, there really aren't that many WASPs left. I am a WIGO, for instance. And no, I am not packed yet. I am going on vacation tomorrow morning, so thanks for reminding me. |
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It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
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Orest
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« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2012, 03:24:27 PM » |
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And what has Putin done for the Church?
Bravo! It is the Church that has done too much for Putin. |
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Orest
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« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2012, 03:25:28 PM » |
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They did not insult Theotokos. And Patriarch Cyrill is not "a holy figure of Orthodoxy".
Again we need to be reminded that their performance was seconds in length. Was there even a service going on at the time? |
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Michał Kalina
proud Podlachian Belarusian parajournalistic engineer in spe
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OC.net's trickster
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« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2012, 03:50:26 PM » |
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Was there even a service going on at the time?
No, it wasn't. The Church was opened for tourists. |
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« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 03:50:44 PM by Michał Kalina »
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole. Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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JamesR
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« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2012, 04:02:29 PM » |
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I don't see what the problem is. So he showed a gesture of respect to a political leader who is an Orthodox Christian. What's the big deal? The Russian Orthodox Church has always been overly dependent and too close upon the national leaders. Plus, how is this any different than St. Constantine or St. Vladimir who each did some pretty crappy things yet are still recognized as Saints?
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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Schultz
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« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2012, 04:26:30 PM » |
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I don't see what the problem is. So he showed a gesture of respect to a political leader who is an Orthodox Christian. What's the big deal? The Russian Orthodox Church has always been overly dependent and too close upon the national leaders. Plus, how is this any different than St. Constantine or St. Vladimir who each did some pretty crappy things yet are still recognized as Saints?
I think Putin is a crypto-Protestant. |
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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vamrat
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« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2012, 04:36:24 PM » |
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I don't see what the problem is. So he showed a gesture of respect to a political leader who is an Orthodox Christian. What's the big deal? The Russian Orthodox Church has always been overly dependent and too close upon the national leaders. Plus, how is this any different than St. Constantine or St. Vladimir who each did some pretty crappy things yet are still recognized as Saints?
I think Putin is a crypto-Protestant. Hey! I see what you're doing!  |
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It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
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Schultz
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« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2012, 04:55:09 PM » |
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I don't see what the problem is. So he showed a gesture of respect to a political leader who is an Orthodox Christian. What's the big deal? The Russian Orthodox Church has always been overly dependent and too close upon the national leaders. Plus, how is this any different than St. Constantine or St. Vladimir who each did some pretty crappy things yet are still recognized as Saints?
I think Putin is a crypto-Protestant. Hey! I see what you're doing! I have no idea what you're talking about. |
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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JamesR
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« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2012, 05:26:59 PM » |
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I don't see what the problem is. So he showed a gesture of respect to a political leader who is an Orthodox Christian. What's the big deal? The Russian Orthodox Church has always been overly dependent and too close upon the national leaders. Plus, how is this any different than St. Constantine or St. Vladimir who each did some pretty crappy things yet are still recognized as Saints?
I think Putin is a crypto-Protestant. So was Peter the Great but the Russian Orthodox Church still had close ties to him. |
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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Iconodule
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« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2012, 06:43:11 PM » |
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I don't see what the problem is. So he showed a gesture of respect to a political leader who is an Orthodox Christian. What's the big deal? The Russian Orthodox Church has always been overly dependent and too close upon the national leaders. Plus, how is this any different than St. Constantine or St. Vladimir who each did some pretty crappy things yet are still recognized as Saints?
I think Putin is a crypto-Protestant. So was Peter the Great but the Russian Orthodox Church still had close ties to him. Which did the Church a great deal of harm. |
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"A Poet a Painter a Musician an Architect: the Man Or Woman who is not one of these is not a Christian." - William Blake
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vamrat
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« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2012, 08:46:07 PM » |
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I don't see what the problem is. So he showed a gesture of respect to a political leader who is an Orthodox Christian. What's the big deal? The Russian Orthodox Church has always been overly dependent and too close upon the national leaders. Plus, how is this any different than St. Constantine or St. Vladimir who each did some pretty crappy things yet are still recognized as Saints?
I think Putin is a crypto-Protestant. Hey! I see what you're doing! I have no idea what you're talking about. Don't try to pull the wool over my eyes! I am way too perceptive for that!  |
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It is an education process for me as I learn about the psychology of spiritual apostasy. And others get the benefit of perhaps hearing righteousness for the first time.
Blessed are the Peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.
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Kerdy
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« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2012, 09:49:15 PM » |
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His expression looks like he is thinking, "What are you doing?" followed by a successful attempt not to hit him.
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"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
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OrthoNoob
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« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2012, 06:16:17 PM » |
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They did not insult Theotokos. And Patriarch Cyrill is not "a holy figure of Orthodoxy".
Oh, then I misunderstood Cranmer's words. And my point with the Catholic example was not to make a 1:1 correlation, but to show the difference between disrespecting and/or insulting a religion in its own holy places and merely not belonging to that religion. If Cranmer's explanation of what they said, or my interpretation of the same, was inaccurate, I will temporarily withhold criticism (although I am prejudiced against "punk" anything in front of the altar) until such time as I can ascertain what it was their "prayer" said (I don't speak Russian, so any help here would be much appreciated.) |
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yeshuaisiam
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The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2012, 07:00:55 PM » |
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Brother Nathanael may kiss Putin's hand. He loves that guy.
I like this monk. Very entertaining to watch and interesting ideas he has.
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William
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« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2012, 01:51:06 AM » |
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Maybe the priest was taking a fool-for-Christ track and was actually making an anti-Putin statement. Either way, I enjoy the look of horror on Putin's face.
This is what I prefer to believe. |
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A beard covers many chins. - Tallitot
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Alpo
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« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2012, 02:03:47 AM » |
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A monk at the Valaam Monastery in northwestern Russia explained why he had kissed Vladimir Putin’s hand during the Russian president’s visit, the monastery’s spokesman Mikhail Shishkov said on Tuesday. |
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Just a little reminder: this forum is not called OrthodoxChristianityUSA.net |
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Achronos
What's so good about Cincinnati? You like it? You think Cincinnati is cool? I've never heard anyone say, 'I'm going to Cincinnati on vacation.'
Site Supporter
Warned
Hoplitarches
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Faith: Building Steam with a Grain of Salt
Jurisdiction: Just as little is seen in pure light as in pure darkness.
Posts: 9,304
And we gave him the Rolling Stone cover?!
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« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2012, 02:52:34 AM » |
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Putin is immortal!
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“Without music, life would be a mistake.”
“The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope.”
"Face the facts of being what you are, for that is what changes what you are."
"We see at once that the words absolute, divine, eternal, and so on do not express what is implied in them.
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Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
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Faith: Melkite (inquirer into Orthodoxy)
Posts: 4,921
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« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2012, 09:13:22 AM » |
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Hopefully they are on a trail of tears ending in Siberia.
Does that mean WASPs should send all EO converts to Guantanamo? Are you packed already? I don't get this ^^ comparison. The group in question isn't on trial for converting from Orthodoxy to a different denomination. |
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"Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit."
- Barack Obama
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