OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 29, 2014, 03:57:28 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Full Deacons in the Coptic Orthodox Church  (Read 1109 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Severian
God save Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Miaphysite Orthodoxy
Jurisdiction: The Church of Alexandria
Posts: 5,044


Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth

Partisangirl
WWW
« on: August 06, 2012, 08:43:02 PM »

I have been told that a full Deacon in the Coptic Church can serve the blood, but not the Body*.  Also, that they wear black vestments and have no employment outside the Church, like Priests. Why are full Deacons in the Coptic parishes so rare (at least in the US)?

*Why is this this the case? Why the one and not the other?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 08:43:50 PM by Severian » Logged

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

I am currently not an active poster on the forum. Please forgive any offense I might have caused in the past. Thank you.
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2012, 01:29:30 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I have been told that a full Deacon in the Coptic Church can serve the blood, but not the Body*.  Also, that they wear black vestments and have no employment outside the Church, like Priests. Why are full Deacons in the Coptic parishes so rare (at least in the US)?

*Why is this this the case? Why the one and not the other?

In Ethiopian tradition only the priests can handle the Body, perhaps this is interconnected because of our mutual history? I believe even the priests are the only ones who carry the consecrated loaves from Bethlehem where they bake it fresh for the service to the Makdes (Altar) for the Divine Liturgy. However all of this occurs behind closed curtain, and I am a bit to piously superstitious even to begin to wonder what is going one back there, let alone to ask Wink



stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 01:29:54 AM by HabteSelassie » Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Severian
God save Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Miaphysite Orthodoxy
Jurisdiction: The Church of Alexandria
Posts: 5,044


Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth

Partisangirl
WWW
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 01:31:15 AM »

^Can full Deacons in Ethiopian Orthodoxy serve the blood? What about in the other OO Churches?

+Thanks
Logged

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

I am currently not an active poster on the forum. Please forgive any offense I might have caused in the past. Thank you.
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 01:35:14 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

^Can full Deacons in Ethiopian Orthodoxy serve the blood? What about in the other OO Churches?

+Thanks

Yes, realistically we only have full deacons, and they can serve the blood.  There are younger kids who serve as deacons and they do not serve the blood, but legalistically speaking they could.  Only the priests handle the bread or Body after consecration. This is the same in Alexandria no?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Severian
God save Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Miaphysite Orthodoxy
Jurisdiction: The Church of Alexandria
Posts: 5,044


Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth

Partisangirl
WWW
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 01:37:26 AM »

^Yes, in the Alexandrian Church Deacons are allowed to serve the blood, not the body. But, what do you mean by "legalistically speaking they could?"
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 01:37:35 AM by Severian » Logged

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

I am currently not an active poster on the forum. Please forgive any offense I might have caused in the past. Thank you.
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 01:42:45 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

^Yes, in the Alexandrian Church Deacons are allowed to serve the blood, not the body. But, what do you mean by "legalistically speaking they could?"

That while we do have the rank of Arch Deacon, there are not lesser ranks and responsibilities like in the Coptic tradition.  As I understand it, any ordained Deacon can serve the Blood if need be, but traditionally only those trained or experienced tend to, and in all functionality, younger or lesser experienced Deacons tend to do a bit of the more "menial" aspects of Altar service during the Liturgy.  I understand that in the Coptic Church there are several kinds of Deacons, but only the "full" deacons can serve the Blood, but in the Ethiopia tradition I don't believe we necessarily have these demarcations of rank aside from Arch deacons and regular deacons.  Sometimes priests even serve as Deacons, usually they are the married priests (Kesis) however sometimes even Monk-priests serve as Deacons and dispense the Blood.  Technically speaking, no Ethiopian liturgy can be celebrated without 3 priests and 4 deacons, however in practice this only occurs in the kinds of Churches that have such numbers.  In lesser parishes, people make due, and I've attended Divine Liturgy with literally just two priests and a handful of laity, with one priest celebrating and the other serving as Deacon.  Again, the canons say there must be three co-celebrating priests and also four deacons.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 01:43:30 AM by HabteSelassie » Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Severian
God save Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Miaphysite Orthodoxy
Jurisdiction: The Church of Alexandria
Posts: 5,044


Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth

Partisangirl
WWW
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 01:48:12 AM »

^Thank you for the clarification. And the only reason I used the term "full Deacon" is because you will often find Altar boys in the Coptic Church incorrectly described as "Deacons". Because Deacons in Coptic Parishes are rare, we use the term "full Deacon" to distinguish between someone who is truly a Deacon and the Altar servers of lesser orders who have propagated the title "Deacon" for themselves. It is actually quite misleading.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 01:48:50 AM by Severian » Logged

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

I am currently not an active poster on the forum. Please forgive any offense I might have caused in the past. Thank you.
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 01:53:29 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

^Thank you for the clarification. And the only reason I used the term "full Deacon" is because you will often find Altar boys in the Coptic Church incorrectly described as "Deacons". Because Deacons in Coptic Parishes are rare, we use the term "full Deacon" to distinguish between someone who is truly a Deacon and the Altar servers of lesser orders who have propagated the title "Deacon" for themselves. It is actually quite misleading.

I agree, and have in the past actually been mislead Smiley

So do these altar boys have the episcopal authority to dispense the Blood?  Only our Deacons can go into the Altar, and our altar servers don't go into the Altar neither do they handle anything related to the Holy Communion.  These are reserved strictly for ordained clergy of priests and "full" deacons.



stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Severian
God save Egypt, Syria, Lebanon & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Miaphysite Orthodoxy
Jurisdiction: The Church of Alexandria
Posts: 5,044


Saint Severus of Antioch - the Eloquent Mouth

Partisangirl
WWW
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 01:55:27 AM »

^Some are allowed into the Holy Altar and they say the Liturgical responses meant for "full" Deacons, but they do not dispense the precious Blood of the Lord.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 01:55:59 AM by Severian » Logged

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -Jesus Christ

I am currently not an active poster on the forum. Please forgive any offense I might have caused in the past. Thank you.
Tags: deacons 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.05 seconds with 36 queries.