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Author Topic: If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy...?  (Read 963 times) Average Rating: 0
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BayStater123
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« on: August 06, 2012, 07:36:49 AM »

If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, would I be baptized or chrismated or both? I have already been baptized and confirmed (chrismated) in the Latin Church.
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Basil 320
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 07:57:59 AM »

Most (-if not all) of the member churches who are under the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of North and Central America (ACOB), accept your Trinitarian Baptism with water, and would convert you to Eastern Orthodoxy by Chrismation.

Most of the Holy Orthodox Churches in the Old World, would re-baptize you, except within the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople and the Church of Romania, I believe.
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 08:29:46 AM »

Why would I need to be chrismated (confirmed) again in the Orthodox Church? I've already received that sacrament in the Latin Church.
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Pan Michał
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 09:14:53 AM »

Why would I need to be chrismated (confirmed) again in the Orthodox Church? I've already received that sacrament in the Latin Church.

As far as I know you won't have to be chrismated again if you've been chrismated in the Roman Catholic Church.
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Thomas
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 09:21:57 AM »

People are admitted solely based upon the jurisdiction's practice and traditions/interretation of the cnons of the church. It is usually agreed that if a heterodox (non-Orthodox) Christian is admitted by  chrismation alone, it is an extension of the principal of "Economia" to that person and an interpretation of the canon of the Church that allows heretics who have left the faith to be chrismated upon their return to the Orthodox Faith.  Due to the radical departures in recent years of the heterodox from the faith (i.e. the Episcopalian denial of the Virgin Birth and the physical resurrection of Christ, the Roman Catholics promulgation of non-Orthodox beliefs about the Blessed Theotokos, the Protestant departure of even some of the most basic tenets of th baptism by baptising using the inclusive language in the name of the Parent, Child, and holy spirit orthodox faith, etc) the bishops from some jurisdictions in the United States or the West have declined to use economia allow chrismation alone. Usually the Greek Orthodox Church, Antiochian Orthodox Church, russian Orthodox Patrirchate, and most of the OCA allow admission to the faith by Chrismation, some ROcor Bishops also allow this. Most Old Calendar and some ROCOR Churches require rebaptism (they actually view it as a first baptism, not recognizng the heterodox baptism due to baptisal form or formula issues).

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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 01:02:27 PM »

Why would I need to be chrismated (confirmed) again in the Orthodox Church? I've already received that sacrament in the Latin Church.


Yes, but it was a heterodox sacrament. The Church does not "accept" any heterodox sacraments in the objective sense of the term. A bishop (within the bounds of any local synodal agreements) is within his rights to re-baptize and chrismate any convert if he so chooses.  What the Church does say is the reception of Orthodox sacraments completes whatever is was lacking in the heterodox rites.
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Basil 320
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 02:55:28 PM »

Why would I need to be chrismated (confirmed) again in the Orthodox Church? I've already received that sacrament in the Latin Church.

Because the administration of the Sacrament of Confirmation in the Roman Catholic Church "confirmed" you into the Roman Catholic Church, not the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Note, too, I neglected to mention earlier, in Reply No. 1, what other posters (see Reply No. 4) have noted above, that the Orthodox Church's acceptance of converts who were baptized with the Trinitarian formula in water is an exercise of the church's "economy."  The administration of the Mystery of Holy Chrismation is believed to correct that which was inadequate from the convert's baptism in the heterodox Christian confession (there is more appropriate ecclesial terminology about what Chrismation does to a convert which escapes me at the moment); and it seals" the "gift" "of the Holy Spirit," confirming the convert into the Orthodox Church.



P.S. I am aghast at what Thomas writes in Reply No. 4 about the deviations that have occurred in Protestant denominations, and would add ordination of women and openly practicing homosexuals to their ministerial office.  The agenda of the forthcoming (I know, when?) Holy and Great Synod (Council) of the Orthodox Church includes the matter of relations with other Christian denominations.  The topic was placed on the agenda at a time that the Holy Orthodox Churches were getting more involved in ecumenical forums across the world.  I have in the past advocated for maintainance of  amicable relations, not to excess, with the Trinitarian believing denominations.  However, the extent to which these heretical teachings (denying he Virgin Birth, and the Resurrection?) are a part of the confession of certain of these denominations, I think the forthcoming Synod should clearly define the extent to which Orthodox should be permitted to have some sort of defined relations, and the current practice of the use of "economia" for converts from these confessions, acceptance by Chrismation only, should be eliminated.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 03:01:04 PM by Basil 320 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2012, 04:00:54 PM »

If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, would I be baptized or chrismated or both? I have already been baptized and confirmed (chrismated) in the Latin Church.

I was baptised and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church. When I converted to the Orthodox Church (via the OCA [Orthodox Church in America]) I received the Mystery/Sacrament of Chrismation but I didnt have to receive an Orthodox baptism because the Catholic one was considered valid. Those who came from other backgrounds had to receive an Orthodox Baptism, the Protestants had to be Baptised in the Orthodox tradition (their Protestant Baptism wasnt considered valid).
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 04:03:04 PM by Cantor Krishnich » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2012, 04:09:40 PM »

If you're convinced of the Truth of Orthodoxy, what does it matter what happened to you as a Roman Catholic?  I write this as someone who was raised RC and received via chrismation.  If my priest (or bishop) said I would've needed to be baptised, I would have done so without question.  I wanted to be a communicant of the Orthodox Church and anything that happened previously, while certainly helpful in getting me where I was, mattered not.  It only mattered what I had to do to go forward as an Orthodox Christian.
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 04:46:34 PM »

If you're convinced of the Truth of Orthodoxy, what does it matter what happened to you as a Roman Catholic?  I write this as someone who was raised RC and received via chrismation.  If my priest (or bishop) said I would've needed to be baptised, I would have done so without question.  I wanted to be a communicant of the Orthodox Church and anything that happened previously, while certainly helpful in getting me where I was, mattered not.  It only mattered what I had to do to go forward as an Orthodox Christian.

Your former Church taught you about Jesus, about holiness of sacraments, about being good man... Did it matter not?

All of you thinking about conversion from RC to OC - a word from bishop Kallistos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOC5MaCNqeY from 1:52 to 3:22, to all of you.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 04:49:00 PM by Pan Michał » Logged
Basil 320
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 06:22:58 PM »

Why would I need to be chrismated (confirmed) again in the Orthodox Church? I've already received that sacrament in the Latin Church.

As far as I know you won't have to be chrismated again if you've been chrismated in the Roman Catholic Church.

Do you know of a Holy Orthodox Church that does not convert Roman Catholics by Chrismation?  I've read separated Old Calendar publications that accuse "modernist" churches of converting by "profession of faith," which includes renunciation of the former false belief, acknowledgement of the dogmas propounded by the 7 Ecumenical Synods (Councils), and recitation of the Symbol of Faith, the Creed.  Is this the formula to which you refer?  Which church does this or would you describe how a person would be converted based on the reply you wrote above?
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 07:06:14 PM »

Do you know of a Holy Orthodox Church that does not convert Roman Catholics by Chrismation?

Yes, Polish Orthodox Church.


I've read separated Old Calendar publications that accuse "modernist" churches of converting by "profession of faith," which includes renunciation of the former false belief, acknowledgement of the dogmas propounded by the 7 Ecumenical Synods (Councils), and recitation of the Symbol of Faith, the Creed.  Is this the formula to which you refer?  Which church does this or would you describe how a person would be converted based on the reply you wrote above?

In Polish Orthodox Church when you are a baptized (obviously) and chrismated Catholic "converting" to Orthodoxy, all you have to do is, after a period of catechisation and approval of a bishop, go to a Sacrament of Confession and then participate in the Holy Eucharist. That's all. No declaration of renounciation. We renounce satan, not our faith.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 07:06:52 PM by Pan Michał » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2012, 12:09:39 PM »

If you're convinced of the Truth of Orthodoxy, what does it matter what happened to you as a Roman Catholic?  I write this as someone who was raised RC and received via chrismation.  If my priest (or bishop) said I would've needed to be baptised, I would have done so without question.  I wanted to be a communicant of the Orthodox Church and anything that happened previously, while certainly helpful in getting me where I was, mattered not.  It only mattered what I had to do to go forward as an Orthodox Christian.

Your former Church taught you about Jesus, about holiness of sacraments, about being good man... Did it matter not?

All of you thinking about conversion from RC to OC - a word from bishop Kallistos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOC5MaCNqeY from 1:52 to 3:22, to all of you.

Let me say it again:

Quote
I wanted to be a communicant of the Orthodox Church and anything that happened previously, while certainly helpful in getting me where I was, mattered not.

My point is that I would do anything to receive communion in the Orthodox Church, including being baptized if my bishop decided it was necessary.
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2012, 12:17:08 PM »

Let me say it again:

Quote
I wanted to be a communicant of the Orthodox Church and anything that happened previously, while certainly helpful in getting me where I was, mattered not.

My point is that I would do anything to receive communion in the Orthodox Church, including being baptized if my bishop decided it was necessary.

Or, "I wanted to be a communicant of the Orthodox Church and anything that happened previously, while certainly helpful in getting me where I was, mattered not."



Just remembered myself one thing, "[...]we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins[...]"
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« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2012, 12:54:44 PM »

Or, "I wanted to be a communicant of the Orthodox Church and anything that happened previously, while certainly helpful in getting me where I was, mattered not."

Isn't that the main goal?
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« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2012, 02:32:09 PM »

Let me say it again:

Quote
I wanted to be a communicant of the Orthodox Church and anything that happened previously, while certainly helpful in getting me where I was, mattered not.

My point is that I would do anything to receive communion in the Orthodox Church, including being baptized if my bishop decided it was necessary.

Or, "I wanted to be a communicant of the Orthodox Church and anything that happened previously, while certainly helpful in getting me where I was, mattered not."


You seem to excel in missing the point in what I write.  Perhaps it's my own fault, but perhaps you're feigning being obtuse to get a rise out of me.  Whatever floats your boat.  My meaning is quite clear given the context.  But if you'd rather proof text my posts, be my guest.  You're persona non grata to me as of the end of this post.

Quote
Just remembered myself one thing, "[...]we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins[...]"

And my bishop determined that my baptism (as "proofed" by baptismal certificate from the RC parish I was raised in) was indeed a baptism and, therefore, I was accepted via chrismation, confession, and communion.

And I most certainly had to renounce the errors of Rome just prior to being chrismated.  And again, if my bishop determined that all that was needed was confession and communion as per the way things are apparently done in your local church, that would've been fine with me.  In matters spiritual, he's the final earthly authority for me.

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« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2012, 05:00:10 PM »

Isn't that the main goal?

I am last to talk, when it comes to goals, believe me...

You seem to excel in missing the point in what I write.  Perhaps it's my own fault, but perhaps you're feigning being obtuse to get a rise out of me.  Whatever floats your boat.  My meaning is quite clear given the context.  But if you'd rather proof text my posts, be my guest.  You're persona non grata to me as of the end of this post.

And my bishop determined that my baptism (as "proofed" by baptismal certificate from the RC parish I was raised in) was indeed a baptism and, therefore, I was accepted via chrismation, confession, and communion.

And I most certainly had to renounce the errors of Rome just prior to being chrismated.  And again, if my bishop determined that all that was needed was confession and communion as per the way things are apparently done in your local church, that would've been fine with me.  In matters spiritual, he's the final earthly authority for me.

I've understand now, I guess it was just a language/thought/jerk barrier from my side. I'm sorry if you feel offended. See my post in Punk Girls thread for further ones.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 05:00:43 PM by Pan Michał » Logged
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