BayStater123
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« on: August 05, 2012, 08:36:00 PM » |
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Do you believe that some grace does exist within Roman Catholicism and that our miracles are true?
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ialmisry
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2012, 08:38:04 PM » |
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Do you believe that some grace does exist within Roman Catholicism and that our miracles are true?
Yes and no. |
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
and both come out of your mouth
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2012, 08:44:01 PM » |
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Yes I believe that there is the grace of God working in Roman Catholicism. I don't know if there is sacramental grace. And yes I believe that miracles are performed by God in Roman Catholicism. Just the opinions of one half-lapsed layman.
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« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 08:44:23 PM by Asteriktos »
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"Truth is not something given objectively, but rather a creative achievement. It is creative discovery, rather than the reflected knowledge of an object or of being. Truth... is the creative transfiguration of reality." - Nikolai Berdyaev
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2012, 08:50:25 PM » |
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Btw, welcome to the forum  |
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"Truth is not something given objectively, but rather a creative achievement. It is creative discovery, rather than the reflected knowledge of an object or of being. Truth... is the creative transfiguration of reality." - Nikolai Berdyaev
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BayStater123
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2012, 09:02:05 PM » |
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Thank you.  |
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Agabus
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2012, 09:13:35 PM » |
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I don't know about sacramental grace. Above my paygrade, as they say.
I believe some miracles — for example, Guadeloupe — are true, with God using what was available to a given people at that time to save them out of paganism. This opinion is not strictly limited to Catholicism.
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Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.
THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL ORTHODOX CHURCH
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J Michael
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 09:28:10 AM » |
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If I didn't believe that grace exists within the Catholic Church, I wouldn't be Catholic. Miracles? Some "miracles" are and some are not--miracles. Why do you ask? And, welcome to the forum and the fray  ! |
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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
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Pan Michał
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2012, 09:38:21 AM » |
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Hi and welcome from a newbie too!
I am very sceptical when it comes to political revelations, such as Fatima, no matter catholic or not.
Mary saying about the ultimate Wrath of God? God, anger? Do we believe in the same God? Mary saing she has managed to hold down God's Wrath to give a chance for Russia to redeem? God, holded down? Do we really believe in the same God? Mary scaring everyone with God's Anger? Mary, scarying? Do we really believe in the same Mary?
I'm not talking about the Catholic faith, but about such revelations.
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 09:40:24 AM by Pan Michał »
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J Michael
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2012, 09:57:25 AM » |
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Hi and welcome from a newbie too!
I am very sceptical when it comes to political revelations, such as Fatima, no matter catholic or not.
Mary saying about the ultimate Wrath of God? God, anger? Do we believe in the same God? Mary saing she has managed to hold down God's Wrath to give a chance for Russia to redeem? God, holded down? Do we really believe in the same God? Mary scaring everyone with God's Anger? Mary, scarying? Do we really believe in the same Mary?
I'm not talking about the Catholic faith, but about such revelations.
Uh oh...this isn't going to turn into one of "those" threads, is it  ? Or a Bible-study thread? |
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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire. May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
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Pan Michał
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 10:04:47 AM » |
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Uh oh...this isn't going to turn into one of "those" threads, is it ? Or a Bible-study thread? If I've trolled too much, then I'll get out of this thread and watch everybody kill and get killed To answer the second part of the original posters' question - we do not know. This ofcourse does not mean that we may not believe that there is Grace in the RC. As for the miracles - this I don't know. |
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podkarpatska
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 10:07:52 AM » |
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Hi and welcome from a newbie too!
I am very sceptical when it comes to political revelations, such as Fatima, no matter catholic or not.
Mary saying about the ultimate Wrath of God? God, anger? Do we believe in the same God? Mary saing she has managed to hold down God's Wrath to give a chance for Russia to redeem? God, holded down? Do we really believe in the same God? Mary scaring everyone with God's Anger? Mary, scarying? Do we really believe in the same Mary?
I'm not talking about the Catholic faith, but about such revelations.
Agreed. We have similar political 'revelations' taken to heart by some Orthodox and I feel the same way about those. Frankly, any 'revelation', it seems to me, has to be void of our contemporary human biases, passions or ignorance in order to even be considered with any seriousness. The turmoil of 1917 across Europe and the general level of fear at that time probably had a lot to do with the perception of the 'message' of Fatima and its exploitation, hence the problem. |
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Dominika
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St. Luke, pray for us!
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 10:27:39 AM » |
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I was some time Roman Catholic and I can say I've experienced some grace (mainly due to the Sacraments), but there was a lack of the fullness and purity of the faith. As one of my Orthodox friends said "Orthodoxy is the best way to the salvation. Catholics can achieve it, but it is harder - the way for them is more tortuous".
As for these miracles: some of them are strange and not always in harmony of the Orthodox teaching. Probably I have similar opinion to Agabus
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 10:41:01 AM by Dominika »
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Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria
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Pan Michał
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2012, 10:35:36 AM » |
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As one of my Orthodox firends said "Orthodoxy is the best way to the salvation. Catholics can achieve it, but it is harder - the way for them is more tortuous".
As my priest once told me, "I don't know whether or not you can be saved there, I know I can be saved here". Or as st. John wrote, "Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me." |
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 10:36:20 AM by Pan Michał »
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Severian
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2012, 04:03:05 PM » |
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I personally, as an OO, entertain the idea that *some* grace is present in Roman Catholicism. I cross myself whenever I pass an RC parish out of veneration. But, the difference between the Orthodox Eucharist and an RC Eucharist to me is, to use the words of Isa Almisry, "I THINK that the Vatican has a 'valid' Eucharist. I KNOW that the Orthodox have the Eucharist."
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« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 04:04:50 PM by Severian »
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I'm avoiding polemical posts until after LentPlease pray for my abject self & for persecuted Christians in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, occupied Palestine & Serbian Kosovo   God bless Egypt & Syria, we share the same pain |
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Wilma
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« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2012, 04:19:50 PM » |
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"I THINK that the Vatican has a 'valid' Eucharist. I KNOW that the Orthodox have the Eucharist."
That's exactly why I converted to Eastern Orthodoxy from Roman Catholicism. With the RCC I think some things came directly from God, with EO I KNOW everything comes from Him. |
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Wilma (Nazarius)
"Humbleness is protection, patience is confirmation, love is defence. Where there is love, there is God, there is all the good…" St. Nazary of Valaam
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Eastern Mind
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« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2012, 06:49:42 PM » |
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Do you believe that some grace does exist within Roman Catholicism and that our miracles are true?
Yes, somewhat. I don't really believe in Fatima, though. |
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Nothing good ever came out of Calvinism, which is in many aspects closer to radical Islam than to Orthodox Christianity.
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Andrew21091
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« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2012, 08:26:56 PM » |
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Do you believe that some grace does exist within Roman Catholicism and that our miracles are true?
Yes. I also believe that the Roman Catholic Church has sacramental grace as well. |
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Nephi
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« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2012, 08:27:30 PM » |
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Do you believe that some grace does exist within Roman Catholicism and that our miracles are true?
Grace to some unknowable extent - yes. Miracles - varies. For example, I think it's hard to deny that Fatima was a real supernatural event, but from an Orthodox view there's no way to accept it as anything but either demonic or greatly altered after-the-fact by the seers (e.g. the dialogue of the apparition). |
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Liberalochian: Ecumenism Lite™
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Nero
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 06:09:45 PM » |
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Personally (and this is just me), I've always had trouble believing several of the apparitions in the RCC. My biggest one was St. Faustina - and this started when I was still Roman Catholic. Jesus just sounded so lofty and unlike himself.
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 06:10:17 PM by Nero »
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Eastern Mind
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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 06:35:12 PM » |
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Well, I do like Guadalupe, but Fatima and Lourdes I have always had issues with. Although, I find Bernadette of Lourdes very charming.
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Nothing good ever came out of Calvinism, which is in many aspects closer to radical Islam than to Orthodox Christianity.
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theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
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don't even go there!
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2013, 07:01:19 PM » |
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Well, I do like Guadalupe, but Fatima and Lourdes I have always had issues with. Although, I find Bernadette of Lourdes very charming.
Yes, the real Bernadette (not the Hollywood version) seems to have been a very devout young woman who suffered great pain without complaint. It is quite possible to admire her without necessarily believing that she really saw the Theotokos. (Though I think she did. ) |
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« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 07:01:34 PM by theistgal »
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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
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