Author Topic: Humans & Monogamy?  (Read 4977 times)

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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Humans & Monogamy?
« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2017, 06:09:29 PM »
Can we truly say that God ordained monogamy for all creatures?  I don't know that we can.  It is clear that He ordained it for human couples though.
How would one explain these verses:

"If a man has two wives, one loved and the other unloved, and if both the loved and the unloved bear him sons, but the firstborn is the son of the unloved wife: when he comes to bequeath his property to his sons he may not consider as his firstborn the son of the wife he loves, in preference to the son of the wife he does not love, the firstborn."
-- Deuternomy 21:15-16

A law not only protecting the first marriage but serving to teach its preference in the minds of a people?
Mayhap, but the marriage order of the two wives is not revealed; only that the unloved wife is the first wife to bear a son.

Such is the limit of law. "The letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life." I'm sure the Talmidim could give you some complicated codicils meant to clarify the problem you see. Or we could stick with one wife and the one Church and seek to follow after the spirit of love.

Indeed.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Humans & Monogamy?
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2017, 06:19:18 PM »
To me, this is very similar to the issue of homosexual desire that we have been debating endlessly on these boards of late.  I believe it is true that the majority of men are predisposed towards spreading their seed around as much as possible.  I believe that this is an unfortunate result of the Fall, a distortion and perversion of the blessed gift from God of a man's desire for his wife, and something that can easily lead to sin.  We cannot cop out and say, "It's in my nature" or "I cannot help it" or even "But I honestly love them both!" anymore than we can allow similar arguments for people afflicted with homosexual desires.  Indocern is right that God indeed created man and woman for heterosexual monogamy.  Anything else is a perversion no matter how you try to spin it.
there  are a  few species of birds and mammals left unaffected by the fall in this wise . The storks I think continue in their prelapsarian monogamous felicity.

I know you're being flip of course, but this does raise an interesting question.  Can we truly say that God ordained monogamy for all creatures?  I don't know that we can.  It is clear that He ordained it for human couples though.

If it is clear, how would you explain instances of polygamy in the OT, particularly among the fathers?

There is one other interesting Ethiopic angle to this question, and that is, unless I'm missing something, in the Kebra Nagast, and elsewhere, I don't get the sense that King Solomon's "exchange of royal gifts" with Queen Kandake that produced Prince David, King of the Ethiopians, who converted Ethiopia to the true religion and brought to Ethiopia the Ark, is particularly condemned.  It is not endorsed clearly; there is nothing describing it as entirely correct, but neither is it categorized as an example of adultery to a severe degree (which it would be in any other case).

Given the dire fate that was to befall the Kingdom of Israel, perhaps there is a subtext that the intended spouse for Solomon was actually the Queen, and perhaps his failure to have their relationship become sealed holy matrimony was an aspect leading to the destruction of Israel and Judea.   Albeit a meccessary prerequisite in the course of events leading to the Incarnation.  I could be quite out in left field here AN and Mor, so if I have missed the mark feel free to tear me to shreds.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Humans & Monogamy?
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2017, 06:29:47 PM »
To me, this is very similar to the issue of homosexual desire that we have been debating endlessly on these boards of late.  I believe it is true that the majority of men are predisposed towards spreading their seed around as much as possible.  I believe that this is an unfortunate result of the Fall, a distortion and perversion of the blessed gift from God of a man's desire for his wife, and something that can easily lead to sin.  We cannot cop out and say, "It's in my nature" or "I cannot help it" or even "But I honestly love them both!" anymore than we can allow similar arguments for people afflicted with homosexual desires.  Indocern is right that God indeed created man and woman for heterosexual monogamy.  Anything else is a perversion no matter how you try to spin it.
there  are a  few species of birds and mammals left unaffected by the fall in this wise . The storks I think continue in their prelapsarian monogamous felicity.

I know you're being flip of course, but this does raise an interesting question.  Can we truly say that God ordained monogamy for all creatures?  I don't know that we can.  It is clear that He ordained it for human couples though.

If it is clear, how would you explain instances of polygamy in the OT, particularly among the fathers?

There is one other interesting Ethiopic angle to this question, and that is, unless I'm missing something, in the Kebra Nagast, and elsewhere, I don't get the sense that King Solomon's "exchange of royal gifts" with Queen Kandake Makeda ("Kandake" was the title of the Queen of Nubia, not the name of the Queen of Saba (Sheba) and Ethiopia) that produced Prince David Menelik, King of the Ethiopians, who converted Ethiopia to the true religion and brought to Ethiopia the Ark, is particularly condemned.  It is not endorsed clearly; there is nothing describing it as entirely correct, but neither is it categorized as an example of adultery to a severe degree (which it would be in any other case).

Given the dire fate that was to befall the Kingdom of Israel, perhaps there is a subtext that the intended spouse for Solomon was actually the Queen, and perhaps his failure to have their relationship become sealed holy matrimony was an aspect leading to the destruction of Israel and Judea.   Albeit a meccessary prerequisite in the course of events leading to the Incarnation.  I could be quite out in left field here AN and Mor, so if I have missed the mark feel free to tear me to shreds.

I've never read anything along these lines in traditional interpretations of the story along these lines, Alpha60.  I'll decline the offer to rip you to shreds about it, but it strikes me as mere conjecture.  I think 1 Kings 11 - as well as the episode in the Kebra Negast about the Egyptian princess - makes it clear that Solomon's weakness for women ultimately led him astray.
I'm with the camp of 13 million Americans that believe politicians are, or are controlled by, Reptilians. I think only monks can solve this problem. It doesn't seem right that they prefer to ignore it.