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Author Topic: Gay Marriage, Testament laws, and Chick-Fil-A  (Read 13297 times) Average Rating: 0
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katherineofdixie
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« Reply #135 on: August 01, 2012, 10:20:43 AM »

They can go to fill in the blanks for hat I care. We should first be outraged at the cra@'y salaries they probably pay their workers. Frankly I do not have a stronger antipathy for any other sort of businessmen than for thOse parading their supposed Christianity. As if it's possible to be Christian In any meaningful sense and be a billionaire or millionaire in the first place; hopefully the revolution will take care of this sort first.

What evidence do you have (assertion is not evidence) that CFA's employees receive crappy salaries/wages?  And if they are, why are you not donating your money to supplement their income?

BTW, I'm eating CFA right now. Mmm, mmm!

We had a parishioner who was a regional manager for them. She thought she had a good job.  

 
http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Chick-fil-A-Hourly-Pay-E5873.htm
That's where his values  are:$7. 65/h

I didnt see Regional Supervisor on that list. How does the pay there compare with McDonalds and Burger King?


They are all the same. But, at least, the others don't rub their Christianity in your face like this.

Is that what really happened? They close on Sunday's and the CEO said he is against Homosexual Marriage.

But if a company stays open on Sunday and the CEO says he is for Gay Marriage is that rubbing a secular agenda in your face?

Do Restaurants owned by Orthodox Jews that close on Friday Saturday rubbing Judaism in your face?

Well Cathy did say that Chik-Fil-A is run on Biblical principles...one wonders which part of the Bible paying-people-a-wage-that-is-impossible-to-live-on values comes from...
Third, why do people like you who think that the Bible should not be read as a scientific text should/must be read as an economics text?  
What part of the Bible dictates that any and every job must pay enough to live off of year after year?

And no job is better?  It might come as a shock to you, but people open businesses to be in business, not to provide jobs (though they do that).

On the other hand, I don't think the central tenet of Christianity is "Every Man For Himself"

I read somewhere that there are two camps. There are the American Evangelical types who beleive in the above. Rugged individualism vs  emphasis on Community, helping others..caring about others before yourself.

Individual salvation vs. we are all in it together.

You set up a false dichotomy.  You can, and many do, be a rugged individualist and build up the community, help others and care about others before yourself.  In fact, most American Evangelical types I know manage to do all of the above.  Augustine's favorite parish, full of former Evangelicals continue to do all of the above.  Evidently that is how they earn his envy.

as for every man for himself: nearly every job I've been offered told me how much I'd be paid for it.  It it wasn't enough, I didn't accept it.  It didn't come as a surprise.  If I offered my services, I told them how much it would be up front.  Sometimes I offered them for free, and was given something anyways.  I don't find such things hard market principles to grasp.



I think that we are supposed to help and care for others. But there are many ways and methods to do that. Most people, unless they are perhaps sociopaths, do not think it's a swell idea to push elderly people off cliffs or starve children. the discussion that often occurs between folks is about differing methods to accomplish helping and caring for others, not whether or not we should.
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« Reply #136 on: August 01, 2012, 10:47:12 AM »



Quite frankly I think government should stay out of marraige totally.
It certainly is a state issue rather then a federal issue.  The state issues the license so its up to them.  Some have given the ok, about 38 have said no. 
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« Reply #137 on: August 01, 2012, 10:49:19 AM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

He's wrong; a vast portion, if not nearly all, societies understood marriage to be one man and however many women; others understood it to be one woman and one or more men.
Interesting.  I wonder when "new evidence" will be presented to show Adam have more wives then just Eve.
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« Reply #138 on: August 01, 2012, 11:37:42 AM »


Augustin, you have no idea about economics.  What should he hire a cashier for?  $10/hr?  $15/hr?  What?  Shouldn't the pay be measured against the skill one is employed for?  Are you saying that a person who works at a cashier should have the same hourly wage as say myself who works as a Nodal Voice Services Manager for AT&T?  I'd love to hear your "justification" on that.
You know, in Chicago you cannot live on that pay. You can precariously subsist and sleep on friends' sofas or  in the CTA  cars etc. Just took a friend in that makes something short of $9/h. The sabbath was made for man and all that. I know there is no solution for this within the current system. It's still annoying that this Cathy scumbag thinks he's a paragon of Christianity. No, his and his ilk's sins cry out to heavan for vengeance.
You are confused.  He's against the sodomites.
One thing I respect you for it's that you-as far as I remember, hope I'm not wrong- don't hide your dislike of "sodomites" behind smarmy pious phrases like " love the sinner., hate the sin".
You though, ignore the fact that according to the prophet Ezekiel, the label "sodomites" is more fitting to capitalists, you know those that oppress the widows, orphans, strangers and workers.
emphasis added

Doesn't this silliness belong in the "politics" thread?   police

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augustin717
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« Reply #139 on: August 01, 2012, 11:47:21 AM »


Augustin, you have no idea about economics.  What should he hire a cashier for?  $10/hr?  $15/hr?  What?  Shouldn't the pay be measured against the skill one is employed for?  Are you saying that a person who works at a cashier should have the same hourly wage as say myself who works as a Nodal Voice Services Manager for AT&T?  I'd love to hear your "justification" on that.
You know, in Chicago you cannot live on that pay. You can precariously subsist and sleep on friends' sofas or  in the CTA  cars etc. Just took a friend in that makes something short of $9/h. The sabbath was made for man and all that. I know there is no solution for this within the current system. It's still annoying that this Cathy scumbag thinks he's a paragon of Christianity. No, his and his ilk's sins cry out to heavan for vengeance.
You are confused.  He's against the sodomites.
One thing I respect you for it's that you-as far as I remember, hope I'm not wrong- don't hide your dislike of "sodomites" behind smarmy pious phrases like " love the sinner., hate the sin".
You though, ignore the fact that according to the prophet Ezekiel, the label "sodomites" is more fitting to capitalists, you know those that oppress the widows, orphans, strangers and workers.
emphasis added

Doesn't this silliness belong in the "politics" thread?   police


If it's your silliness you mean, then it belongs to the history's dumpster.
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« Reply #140 on: August 01, 2012, 11:57:59 AM »

I'm not sure I support a company that promotes or even enables anti-gay rhetoric.

And how do you define "anti-gay rhetoric?" Would simply stating that homosexuality is a disorder or that the acts involved are sins be deemed by you "anti-gay rhetoric," even if there is no condemnation of persons or fomenting of violence or discrimination?
But see you are condemning homosexuals because you classify how they act as sinful. I don't think that's the right approach. but meh.

Look all I'm saying is CFA should be focused on running their business instead of using it as a platform to promote their beliefs.

Oh

Quote
"I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage... I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to define what marriage is about."
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/chick-fil-gay-marriage-201108120--finance.html

Quote
When asked whether his company had an established position against marriage equality, Cathy said, "guilty as charged."
http://www.advocate.com/business/2012/07/17/chick-fil-coo-dan-cathy-officially-comes-out-antigay

Also Cathy is basically saying that "pro-family" doesn't involve families that are raised by gay couples, which is a ridiculous statement.
emphasis added

 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy  Your statement would be less laughable and irrelevant if you could point to any examples of CFA stores discriminating against homosexuals in hiring &/or promotions;  or if CFA stores sought to make homosexuals uncomfortable by offering a "Hetero Sandwich" on its menu.  If I recall, there is a certain ice cream company that places its political activism right on its web site and even highlights its political views in the names of some of its products;  however, their opponents are not calling for them to be denied licenses to operate, or to be shut down.
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« Reply #141 on: August 01, 2012, 12:01:50 PM »


Augustin, you have no idea about economics.  What should he hire a cashier for?  $10/hr?  $15/hr?  What?  Shouldn't the pay be measured against the skill one is employed for?  Are you saying that a person who works at a cashier should have the same hourly wage as say myself who works as a Nodal Voice Services Manager for AT&T?  I'd love to hear your "justification" on that.
You know, in Chicago you cannot live on that pay. You can precariously subsist and sleep on friends' sofas or  in the CTA  cars etc. Just took a friend in that makes something short of $9/h. The sabbath was made for man and all that. I know there is no solution for this within the current system. It's still annoying that this Cathy scumbag thinks he's a paragon of Christianity. No, his and his ilk's sins cry out to heavan for vengeance.
You are confused.  He's against the sodomites.
One thing I respect you for it's that you-as far as I remember, hope I'm not wrong- don't hide your dislike of "sodomites" behind smarmy pious phrases like " love the sinner., hate the sin".
You though, ignore the fact that according to the prophet Ezekiel, the label "sodomites" is more fitting to capitalists, you know those that oppress the widows, orphans, strangers and workers.
emphasis added

Doesn't this silliness belong in the "politics" thread?   police


If it's your silliness you mean, then it belongs to the history's dumpster.

I believe you meant to say "ash heap of history".  You can't even get your political quote right, when using Trotsky to counter my assertion that you are being political!

 Grin   Cheesy   Cheesy
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« Reply #142 on: August 01, 2012, 12:07:01 PM »

I will admit that liberals sure do look mighty hypocritical right now saying CFA is intolerant. Yet it seems to me liberals are intolerant of the freedom of speech. I also would like some confirmation if CFA is funding anti-gay marriage groups as well.

There's only like 3% of adults in America who classify themselves as LGBT, why give them such a loud voice when they hardly represent a majority?

How have liberals showed intolerance for free speech?  Was anyone demanding the CEO be put in jail over his comments, or were people just expressing disgust at what he said?  If he had said "I really wish Hitler was still around," would you think everyone who boycotted him was intolerant of free speech, or merely showing their disapproval of the ideals the man has?  Your comment is as absurd as college newspapers that print ads for white supremacists, because the white supremacists have freedom of speech.

Thank you James. I still do not know what this thread is about. I do not know who said what and what is being argued against. As far as I know there is no central and accepted voice for the LGBTQ community to justify the tenor of this thread. I am willing to learn if someone wants to start including names of who I should pay attention to. If you go back through this thread and not see a mob-like hysteria with no finger pointing to particular people and instead settling on a whole group of people, please let me know what post I missed.

And yes, without additional and specific facts that are currently lacking I find this thread appalling .

Greetings Opus,

If you would like to read an article regarding the Orthodox Christian view on homosexuality this one is pretty good. There are many others out there as well.

http://www.antiochian.org/node/17905

There are voluminous examples of the uproar in the media regarding Dan Cathy's comments. I am sure you can use Google or any other search engine and see for yourself. The point is, Christian values are eroding at an alarming rate in this country and anyone who is the public eye, who stands up for Christ's commandments will be attacked. Whether you call those who attack them liberal, democrat, etc. these terms miss the mark. The spirit of the times we live in is attacking Christian morality at every opportunity it can. Let us pray that the Lord blesses those who resist this spirit and follow in the footsteps of Christ's commandments no matter what denomination they belong.


If only people would stand up for what they believe in without engaging in a culture war; as I've said before, war makes an abstraction out of human beings.
emphasis added

 Huh  So, the CEO answering a question in an interview about his personal beliefs is "engaging in a cultural war", but those calling for his business to be shut down aren't? 

 Roll Eyes

I guess people with whom you disagree should never express their opinions.
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Marc1152
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« Reply #143 on: August 01, 2012, 01:46:21 PM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

Or one man and several women.
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« Reply #144 on: August 01, 2012, 01:50:24 PM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

Or one man and several women.
Yeah, the "marriage equality" crowd isn't calling for marriage to redefined with an old definition.
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« Reply #145 on: August 01, 2012, 01:52:30 PM »

They can go to fill in the blanks for hat I care. We should first be outraged at the cra@'y salaries they probably pay their workers. Frankly I do not have a stronger antipathy for any other sort of businessmen than for thOse parading their supposed Christianity. As if it's possible to be Christian In any meaningful sense and be a billionaire or millionaire in the first place; hopefully the revolution will take care of this sort first.

What evidence do you have (assertion is not evidence) that CFA's employees receive crappy salaries/wages?  And if they are, why are you not donating your money to supplement their income?

BTW, I'm eating CFA right now. Mmm, mmm!

We had a parishioner who was a regional manager for them. She thought she had a good job.  

 
http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Chick-fil-A-Hourly-Pay-E5873.htm
That's where his values  are:$7. 65/h

I didnt see Regional Supervisor on that list. How does the pay there compare with McDonalds and Burger King?


They are all the same. But, at least, the others don't rub their Christianity in your face like this.

Is that what really happened? They close on Sunday's and the CEO said he is against Homosexual Marriage.

But if a company stays open on Sunday and the CEO says he is for Gay Marriage is that rubbing a secular agenda in your face?

Do Restaurants owned by Orthodox Jews that close on Friday Saturday rubbing Judaism in your face?

Well Cathy did say that Chik-Fil-A is run on Biblical principles...one wonders which part of the Bible paying-people-a-wage-that-is-impossible-to-live-on values comes from...
Third, why do people like you who think that the Bible should not be read as a scientific text should/must be read as an economics text?  
What part of the Bible dictates that any and every job must pay enough to live off of year after year?

And no job is better?  It might come as a shock to you, but people open businesses to be in business, not to provide jobs (though they do that).

On the other hand, I don't think the central tenet of Christianity is "Every Man For Himself"

I read somewhere that there are two camps. There are the American Evangelical types who beleive in the above. Rugged individualism vs  emphasis on Community, helping others..caring about others before yourself.

Individual salvation vs. we are all in it together.

You set up a false dichotomy.  You can, and many do, be a rugged individualist and build up the community, help others and care about others before yourself.  In fact, most American Evangelical types I know manage to do all of the above.  Augustine's favorite parish, full of former Evangelicals continue to do all of the above.  Evidently that is how they earn his envy.

as for every man for himself: nearly every job I've been offered told me how much I'd be paid for it.  It it wasn't enough, I didn't accept it.  It didn't come as a surprise.  If I offered my services, I told them how much it would be up front.  Sometimes I offered them for free, and was given something anyways.  I don't find such things hard market principles to grasp.



I think that we are supposed to help and care for others. But there are many ways and methods to do that. Most people, unless they are perhaps sociopaths, do not think it's a swell idea to push elderly people off cliffs or starve children. the discussion that often occurs between folks is about differing methods to accomplish helping and caring for others, not whether or not we should.

I would be a little harder on Conservatives than that. I would say that Christians should favor laws that benefit the poor.

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« Reply #146 on: August 01, 2012, 01:56:35 PM »

Yeah one man and a woman or one man an multiple women.
Polygamy is never encouraged in the Bible, and every instance of it doesn't end well.  It first crops up in the corruption of Cain's line.

God only took one rib from Adam.
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« Reply #147 on: August 01, 2012, 01:59:09 PM »

I would be a little harder on Conservatives than that. I would say that Christians should favor laws that benefit the poor.
Ah, the devil in the details. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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« Reply #148 on: August 01, 2012, 01:59:50 PM »

Yeah one man and a woman or one man an multiple women.
Polygamy is never encouraged in the Bible, and every instance of it doesn't end well.  It first crops up in the corruption of Cain's line.

God only took one rib from Adam.

mmmmmmmmmmm  rib (s).

Okay, thanks.
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« Reply #149 on: August 01, 2012, 02:05:01 PM »


Augustin, you have no idea about economics.  What should he hire a cashier for?  $10/hr?  $15/hr?  What?  Shouldn't the pay be measured against the skill one is employed for?  Are you saying that a person who works at a cashier should have the same hourly wage as say myself who works as a Nodal Voice Services Manager for AT&T?  I'd love to hear your "justification" on that.
You know, in Chicago you cannot live on that pay. You can precariously subsist and sleep on friends' sofas or  in the CTA  cars etc. Just took a friend in that makes something short of $9/h. The sabbath was made for man and all that. I know there is no solution for this within the current system. It's still annoying that this Cathy scumbag thinks he's a paragon of Christianity. No, his and his ilk's sins cry out to heavan for vengeance.
You are confused.  He's against the sodomites.
One thing I respect you for it's that you-as far as I remember, hope I'm not wrong- don't hide your dislike of "sodomites" behind smarmy pious phrases like " love the sinner., hate the sin".
You though, ignore the fact that according to the prophet Ezekiel, the label "sodomites" is more fitting to capitalists, you know those that oppress the widows, orphans, strangers and workers.
Oh, Ezekiel has plenty to say about, or rather against, those who can't keep their pants on or drop them with inappropriate company.  Look at the first half of that chapter in Ezekiel.

I don't dislike sodomites.  Heck, I don't dislike sodomy (we have a rather large thread, if not a few, on that). No "ikh factor."  I have no use for the pro-sodom agenda, which includes, but is not limited to, promotion of homosexual behavior as "normal."

And what's wrong with loving the sinner and hating the sin?  Otherwise there would be nobody to love, and libertinism would reign.
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« Reply #150 on: August 01, 2012, 02:06:02 PM »

Hetero people can marry and divorce a week later but homosexuals who have been living together for years can't marry.
Neither should he happening.
Note one thing Cathy was not asked, but did say, he and the rest are married to their first wives.
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« Reply #151 on: August 01, 2012, 02:14:06 PM »


Augustin, you have no idea about economics.  What should he hire a cashier for?  $10/hr?  $15/hr?  What?  Shouldn't the pay be measured against the skill one is employed for?  Are you saying that a person who works at a cashier should have the same hourly wage as say myself who works as a Nodal Voice Services Manager for AT&T?  I'd love to hear your "justification" on that.
You know, in Chicago you cannot live on that pay. You can precariously subsist and sleep on friends' sofas or  in the CTA  cars etc. Just took a friend in that makes something short of $9/h. The sabbath was made for man and all that. I know there is no solution for this within the current system. It's still annoying that this Cathy scumbag thinks he's a paragon of Christianity. No, his and his ilk's sins cry out to heavan for vengeance.
You are confused.  He's against the sodomites.
One thing I respect you for it's that you-as far as I remember, hope I'm not wrong- don't hide your dislike of "sodomites" behind smarmy pious phrases like " love the sinner., hate the sin".
You though, ignore the fact that according to the prophet Ezekiel, the label "sodomites" is more fitting to capitalists, you know those that oppress the widows, orphans, strangers and workers.
Oh, Ezekiel has plenty to say about, or rather against, those who can't keep their pants on or drop them with inappropriate company.  Look at the first half of that chapter in Ezekiel.

I don't dislike sodomites.  Heck, I don't dislike sodomy (we have a rather large thread, if not a few, on that). No "ikh factor."  I have no use for the pro-sodom agenda, which includes, but is not limited to, promotion of homosexual behavior as "normal."

And what's wrong with loving the sinner and hating the sin?  Otherwise there would be nobody to love, and libertinism would reign.

So that begs the next question. Is it then okay to have same sex attraction or is that in and of itself a spiritual deformation?

We often say that people cant help their sexual urges but it's okay as long as they dont act upon them. Or are we being too easy and the real scriptural injunctions and  Christian Tradition says that same sex attraction is a Spiritual illness, acted upon or not.

I think the latter but it's far less politically correct.

Btw...Long long lines at Chick Fil -A today

 
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« Reply #152 on: August 01, 2012, 02:28:20 PM »

I would be a little harder on Conservatives than that. I would say that Christians should favor laws that benefit the poor.


Ok, but what laws do benefit the poor? That's what I was talking about - everyone can want to help the poor, but we can certainly have different ideas about how to accomplish that.
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« Reply #153 on: August 01, 2012, 02:33:40 PM »

Quote
Is it then okay to have same sex attraction
To reference Fr. Hopko, it is nothing more than a temptation to have sex. That in and of itself is not an act. He was pretty clear that it is fine, but it is what you do WITH that temptation, just like anything else, is either sinful or not.

PP
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« Reply #154 on: August 01, 2012, 02:40:54 PM »


Augustin, you have no idea about economics.  What should he hire a cashier for?  $10/hr?  $15/hr?  What?  Shouldn't the pay be measured against the skill one is employed for?  Are you saying that a person who works at a cashier should have the same hourly wage as say myself who works as a Nodal Voice Services Manager for AT&T?  I'd love to hear your "justification" on that.
You know, in Chicago you cannot live on that pay. You can precariously subsist and sleep on friends' sofas or  in the CTA  cars etc. Just took a friend in that makes something short of $9/h. The sabbath was made for man and all that. I know there is no solution for this within the current system. It's still annoying that this Cathy scumbag thinks he's a paragon of Christianity. No, his and his ilk's sins cry out to heavan for vengeance.
You are confused.  He's against the sodomites.
One thing I respect you for it's that you-as far as I remember, hope I'm not wrong- don't hide your dislike of "sodomites" behind smarmy pious phrases like " love the sinner., hate the sin".
You though, ignore the fact that according to the prophet Ezekiel, the label "sodomites" is more fitting to capitalists, you know those that oppress the widows, orphans, strangers and workers.
Oh, Ezekiel has plenty to say about, or rather against, those who can't keep their pants on or drop them with inappropriate company.  Look at the first half of that chapter in Ezekiel.

I don't dislike sodomites.  Heck, I don't dislike sodomy (we have a rather large thread, if not a few, on that). No "ikh factor."  I have no use for the pro-sodom agenda, which includes, but is not limited to, promotion of homosexual behavior as "normal."

And what's wrong with loving the sinner and hating the sin?  Otherwise there would be nobody to love, and libertinism would reign.

So that begs the next question. Is it then okay to have same sex attraction or is that in and of itself a spiritual deformation?

We often say that people cant help their sexual urges but it's okay as long as they dont act upon them. Or are we being too easy and the real scriptural injunctions and  Christian Tradition says that same sex attraction is a Spiritual illness, acted upon or not.

I think the latter but it's far less politically correct.

Btw...Long long lines at Chick Fil -A today

 
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« Reply #155 on: August 01, 2012, 02:57:32 PM »

During my visit to Chick-Fil-A today, I was asked, before purchase, to present my Heterosexual ID card.  Oh wait that didn't happen.
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« Reply #156 on: August 01, 2012, 03:04:39 PM »

Quote
Is it then okay to have same sex attraction
To reference Fr. Hopko, it is nothing more than a temptation to have sex. That in and of itself is not an act. He was pretty clear that it is fine, but it is what you do WITH that temptation, just like anything else, is either sinful or not.

PP

Let me ask, and this would not be limited to homosexual tendencies, but any lustful thoughts:

I would agree that it is not the thought that is a sin, but the action. Yet, if the thought alone were to become an obsession of sort to the point of distracting us from our own repentance and God, would that not also be sinful?
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« Reply #157 on: August 01, 2012, 03:06:55 PM »

Quote
Yet, if the thought alone were to become an obsession of sort to the point of distracting us from our own repentance and God, would that not also be sinful?
Just like any other obsession that deters you from God I would imagine. But Im not a priest so......Smiley

Quote
During my visit to Chick-Fil-A today, I was asked, before purchase, to present my Heterosexual ID card.  Oh wait that didn't happen
Yeah, a few of my mates went today for lunch and said the lines were wrapped around the building/drivethru/backed up in the mall somethin awful.

PP
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« Reply #158 on: August 01, 2012, 03:10:35 PM »

Yeah, a few of my mates went today for lunch and said the lines were wrapped around the building/drivethru/backed up in the mall somethin awful.

That's actually every single Chick-Fil-A I've ever been to, no matter the time, place, or controversy.  It's just always packed (maybe because there are fewer of their restaraunts than say, Taco Bell).
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« Reply #159 on: August 01, 2012, 03:11:10 PM »


Illness, like being blind, with all that that implies.  John 9:2-3.
[/quote]

This Scripture would cleary apply if they were to prove that homosexuality is indeed genetic yes?
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« Reply #160 on: August 01, 2012, 03:13:23 PM »

Quote
That's actually every single Chick-Fil-A I've ever been to, no matter the time, place, or controversy
Thats because they have the best chicken sandwich ever...and the waffle fries are big, generous, and salty...friggin amazing.

That got me thinking, they should go into the fried chicken biz...they'd destroy KFC and the current "PP's favorite chicken place" Bojangles.

PP
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« Reply #161 on: August 01, 2012, 03:19:05 PM »

Quote
Yet, if the thought alone were to become an obsession of sort to the point of distracting us from our own repentance and God, would that not also be sinful?
Just like any other obsession that deters you from God I would imagine. But Im not a priest so......Smiley


Same here. On both accounts  Wink
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« Reply #162 on: August 01, 2012, 03:48:39 PM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

He's wrong; a vast portion, if not nearly all, societies understood marriage to be one man and however many women; others understood it to be one woman and one or more men.
Interesting.  I wonder when "new evidence" will be presented to show Adam have more wives then just Eve.

Are you suggesting I'm wrong?  If so, I encourage you to read more about other cultures, especially in times past.
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« Reply #163 on: August 01, 2012, 03:48:39 PM »

I will admit that liberals sure do look mighty hypocritical right now saying CFA is intolerant. Yet it seems to me liberals are intolerant of the freedom of speech. I also would like some confirmation if CFA is funding anti-gay marriage groups as well.

There's only like 3% of adults in America who classify themselves as LGBT, why give them such a loud voice when they hardly represent a majority?

How have liberals showed intolerance for free speech?  Was anyone demanding the CEO be put in jail over his comments, or were people just expressing disgust at what he said?  If he had said "I really wish Hitler was still around," would you think everyone who boycotted him was intolerant of free speech, or merely showing their disapproval of the ideals the man has?  Your comment is as absurd as college newspapers that print ads for white supremacists, because the white supremacists have freedom of speech.

Thank you James. I still do not know what this thread is about. I do not know who said what and what is being argued against. As far as I know there is no central and accepted voice for the LGBTQ community to justify the tenor of this thread. I am willing to learn if someone wants to start including names of who I should pay attention to. If you go back through this thread and not see a mob-like hysteria with no finger pointing to particular people and instead settling on a whole group of people, please let me know what post I missed.

And yes, without additional and specific facts that are currently lacking I find this thread appalling .

Greetings Opus,

If you would like to read an article regarding the Orthodox Christian view on homosexuality this one is pretty good. There are many others out there as well.

http://www.antiochian.org/node/17905

There are voluminous examples of the uproar in the media regarding Dan Cathy's comments. I am sure you can use Google or any other search engine and see for yourself. The point is, Christian values are eroding at an alarming rate in this country and anyone who is the public eye, who stands up for Christ's commandments will be attacked. Whether you call those who attack them liberal, democrat, etc. these terms miss the mark. The spirit of the times we live in is attacking Christian morality at every opportunity it can. Let us pray that the Lord blesses those who resist this spirit and follow in the footsteps of Christ's commandments no matter what denomination they belong.


If only people would stand up for what they believe in without engaging in a culture war; as I've said before, war makes an abstraction out of human beings.
emphasis added

 Huh  So, the CEO answering a question in an interview about his personal beliefs is "engaging in a cultural war", but those calling for his business to be shut down aren't? 

 Roll Eyes

I guess people with whom you disagree should never express their opinions.

You read too much into other people's statements; I encourage you to work on that.
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« Reply #164 on: August 01, 2012, 03:48:39 PM »

Yeah one man and a woman or one man an multiple women.
Polygamy is never encouraged in the Bible, and every instance of it doesn't end well.  It first crops up in the corruption of Cain's line.

God only took one rib from Adam.

This has nothing to do with the post Augustin was replying to.
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« Reply #165 on: August 01, 2012, 03:48:39 PM »


Augustin, you have no idea about economics.  What should he hire a cashier for?  $10/hr?  $15/hr?  What?  Shouldn't the pay be measured against the skill one is employed for?  Are you saying that a person who works at a cashier should have the same hourly wage as say myself who works as a Nodal Voice Services Manager for AT&T?  I'd love to hear your "justification" on that.
You know, in Chicago you cannot live on that pay. You can precariously subsist and sleep on friends' sofas or  in the CTA  cars etc. Just took a friend in that makes something short of $9/h. The sabbath was made for man and all that. I know there is no solution for this within the current system. It's still annoying that this Cathy scumbag thinks he's a paragon of Christianity. No, his and his ilk's sins cry out to heavan for vengeance.
You are confused.  He's against the sodomites.
One thing I respect you for it's that you-as far as I remember, hope I'm not wrong- don't hide your dislike of "sodomites" behind smarmy pious phrases like " love the sinner., hate the sin".
You though, ignore the fact that according to the prophet Ezekiel, the label "sodomites" is more fitting to capitalists, you know those that oppress the widows, orphans, strangers and workers.
Oh, Ezekiel has plenty to say about, or rather against, those who can't keep their pants on or drop them with inappropriate company.  Look at the first half of that chapter in Ezekiel.

I don't dislike sodomites.  Heck, I don't dislike sodomy (we have a rather large thread, if not a few, on that). No "ikh factor."  I have no use for the pro-sodom agenda, which includes, but is not limited to, promotion of homosexual behavior as "normal."

And what's wrong with loving the sinner and hating the sin?  Otherwise there would be nobody to love, and libertinism would reign.

So that begs the next question. Is it then okay to have same sex attraction or is that in and of itself a spiritual deformation?

We often say that people cant help their sexual urges but it's okay as long as they dont act upon them. Or are we being too easy and the real scriptural injunctions and  Christian Tradition says that same sex attraction is a Spiritual illness, acted upon or not.

I think the latter but it's far less politically correct.

Btw...Long long lines at Chick Fil -A today

 

Homosexuality is no more a spiritual illness than any other temptation.  The very desire to sin is, itself, a distortion of the created order and shows that anyone who has any desire to sin is ill, spiritally (personally I don't really like the "illness" and "hospital" talk, but I suppose that's just personal preference).
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« Reply #166 on: August 01, 2012, 03:48:48 PM »

Yeah, a few of my mates went today for lunch and said the lines were wrapped around the building/drivethru/backed up in the mall somethin awful.

That's actually every single Chick-Fil-A I've ever been to, no matter the time, place, or controversy.  It's just always packed (maybe because there are fewer of their restaraunts than say, Taco Bell).

This is my experience as well.  I've eaten there a few times, at three different locations (one a free-standing store, one at a mall - I believe - and one at the student union at ASU) and all three were quite busy.  The one at ASU is usually rather busy.
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« Reply #167 on: August 01, 2012, 04:06:44 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I would be a little harder on Conservatives than that. I would say that Christians should favor laws that benefit the poor.


Ok, but what laws do benefit the poor? That's what I was talking about - everyone can want to help the poor, but we can certainly have different ideas about how to accomplish that.

Medicaid and the Social Security Act ..  The Civil Rights Act.. The Americans with Disabilities Disabilities Act.   As an American, these are legislation which I adore a highly as the British revere the Magna Carta  Smiley

stay blessed,
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« Reply #168 on: August 01, 2012, 04:08:49 PM »

I will admit that liberals sure do look mighty hypocritical right now saying CFA is intolerant. Yet it seems to me liberals are intolerant of the freedom of speech. I also would like some confirmation if CFA is funding anti-gay marriage groups as well.

There's only like 3% of adults in America who classify themselves as LGBT, why give them such a loud voice when they hardly represent a majority?

How have liberals showed intolerance for free speech?  Was anyone demanding the CEO be put in jail over his comments, or were people just expressing disgust at what he said?  If he had said "I really wish Hitler was still around," would you think everyone who boycotted him was intolerant of free speech, or merely showing their disapproval of the ideals the man has?  Your comment is as absurd as college newspapers that print ads for white supremacists, because the white supremacists have freedom of speech.

Thank you James. I still do not know what this thread is about. I do not know who said what and what is being argued against. As far as I know there is no central and accepted voice for the LGBTQ community to justify the tenor of this thread. I am willing to learn if someone wants to start including names of who I should pay attention to. If you go back through this thread and not see a mob-like hysteria with no finger pointing to particular people and instead settling on a whole group of people, please let me know what post I missed.

And yes, without additional and specific facts that are currently lacking I find this thread appalling .

Greetings Opus,

If you would like to read an article regarding the Orthodox Christian view on homosexuality this one is pretty good. There are many others out there as well.

http://www.antiochian.org/node/17905

There are voluminous examples of the uproar in the media regarding Dan Cathy's comments. I am sure you can use Google or any other search engine and see for yourself. The point is, Christian values are eroding at an alarming rate in this country and anyone who is the public eye, who stands up for Christ's commandments will be attacked. Whether you call those who attack them liberal, democrat, etc. these terms miss the mark. The spirit of the times we live in is attacking Christian morality at every opportunity it can. Let us pray that the Lord blesses those who resist this spirit and follow in the footsteps of Christ's commandments no matter what denomination they belong.


If only people would stand up for what they believe in without engaging in a culture war; as I've said before, war makes an abstraction out of human beings.
emphasis added

 Huh  So, the CEO answering a question in an interview about his personal beliefs is "engaging in a cultural war", but those calling for his business to be shut down aren't? 

 Roll Eyes

I guess people with whom you disagree should never express their opinions.

You read too much into other people's statements; I encourage you to work on that.
emphasis added

I consider that a non-responsive response.  When you can't answer your critics, accuse them of misunderstanding (without providing specifics), and then make a snarky remark.  (Not so) Nice try.  Wink
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« Reply #169 on: August 01, 2012, 04:12:06 PM »

My CFA was also packed today:  line out the door, and drive-thru line out the parking lot and into the street. 
BTW, This is NOT typical for any CFA I have seen other than today
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« Reply #170 on: August 01, 2012, 04:13:26 PM »

CFA- the new shrine of the American conservative religion.
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« Reply #171 on: August 01, 2012, 04:17:02 PM »

I will admit that liberals sure do look mighty hypocritical right now saying CFA is intolerant. Yet it seems to me liberals are intolerant of the freedom of speech. I also would like some confirmation if CFA is funding anti-gay marriage groups as well.

There's only like 3% of adults in America who classify themselves as LGBT, why give them such a loud voice when they hardly represent a majority?

How have liberals showed intolerance for free speech?  Was anyone demanding the CEO be put in jail over his comments, or were people just expressing disgust at what he said?  If he had said "I really wish Hitler was still around," would you think everyone who boycotted him was intolerant of free speech, or merely showing their disapproval of the ideals the man has?  Your comment is as absurd as college newspapers that print ads for white supremacists, because the white supremacists have freedom of speech.

Thank you James. I still do not know what this thread is about. I do not know who said what and what is being argued against. As far as I know there is no central and accepted voice for the LGBTQ community to justify the tenor of this thread. I am willing to learn if someone wants to start including names of who I should pay attention to. If you go back through this thread and not see a mob-like hysteria with no finger pointing to particular people and instead settling on a whole group of people, please let me know what post I missed.

And yes, without additional and specific facts that are currently lacking I find this thread appalling .

Greetings Opus,

If you would like to read an article regarding the Orthodox Christian view on homosexuality this one is pretty good. There are many others out there as well.

http://www.antiochian.org/node/17905

There are voluminous examples of the uproar in the media regarding Dan Cathy's comments. I am sure you can use Google or any other search engine and see for yourself. The point is, Christian values are eroding at an alarming rate in this country and anyone who is the public eye, who stands up for Christ's commandments will be attacked. Whether you call those who attack them liberal, democrat, etc. these terms miss the mark. The spirit of the times we live in is attacking Christian morality at every opportunity it can. Let us pray that the Lord blesses those who resist this spirit and follow in the footsteps of Christ's commandments no matter what denomination they belong.


If only people would stand up for what they believe in without engaging in a culture war; as I've said before, war makes an abstraction out of human beings.
emphasis added

 Huh  So, the CEO answering a question in an interview about his personal beliefs is "engaging in a cultural war", but those calling for his business to be shut down aren't? 

 Roll Eyes

I guess people with whom you disagree should never express their opinions.

You read too much into other people's statements; I encourage you to work on that.
emphasis added

I consider that a non-responsive response.  When you can't answer your critics, accuse them of misunderstanding (without providing specifics), and then make a snarky remark.  (Not so) Nice try.  Wink


There is no such thing as a non-responsive response.
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« Reply #172 on: August 01, 2012, 04:23:08 PM »

I will admit that liberals sure do look mighty hypocritical right now saying CFA is intolerant. Yet it seems to me liberals are intolerant of the freedom of speech. I also would like some confirmation if CFA is funding anti-gay marriage groups as well.

There's only like 3% of adults in America who classify themselves as LGBT, why give them such a loud voice when they hardly represent a majority?

How have liberals showed intolerance for free speech?  Was anyone demanding the CEO be put in jail over his comments, or were people just expressing disgust at what he said?  If he had said "I really wish Hitler was still around," would you think everyone who boycotted him was intolerant of free speech, or merely showing their disapproval of the ideals the man has?  Your comment is as absurd as college newspapers that print ads for white supremacists, because the white supremacists have freedom of speech.

Thank you James. I still do not know what this thread is about. I do not know who said what and what is being argued against. As far as I know there is no central and accepted voice for the LGBTQ community to justify the tenor of this thread. I am willing to learn if someone wants to start including names of who I should pay attention to. If you go back through this thread and not see a mob-like hysteria with no finger pointing to particular people and instead settling on a whole group of people, please let me know what post I missed.

And yes, without additional and specific facts that are currently lacking I find this thread appalling .

Greetings Opus,

If you would like to read an article regarding the Orthodox Christian view on homosexuality this one is pretty good. There are many others out there as well.

http://www.antiochian.org/node/17905

There are voluminous examples of the uproar in the media regarding Dan Cathy's comments. I am sure you can use Google or any other search engine and see for yourself. The point is, Christian values are eroding at an alarming rate in this country and anyone who is the public eye, who stands up for Christ's commandments will be attacked. Whether you call those who attack them liberal, democrat, etc. these terms miss the mark. The spirit of the times we live in is attacking Christian morality at every opportunity it can. Let us pray that the Lord blesses those who resist this spirit and follow in the footsteps of Christ's commandments no matter what denomination they belong.


If only people would stand up for what they believe in without engaging in a culture war; as I've said before, war makes an abstraction out of human beings.
emphasis added

 Huh  So, the CEO answering a question in an interview about his personal beliefs is "engaging in a cultural war", but those calling for his business to be shut down aren't? 

 Roll Eyes

I guess people with whom you disagree should never express their opinions.

You read too much into other people's statements; I encourage you to work on that.
emphasis added

I consider that a non-responsive response.  When you can't answer your critics, accuse them of misunderstanding (without providing specifics), and then make a snarky remark.  (Not so) Nice try.  Wink


There is no such thing as a non-responsive response.

Sure there is.

"Do you support gay marriage?"
"I like ice cream."

That was a non-responsive response.
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« Reply #173 on: August 01, 2012, 04:25:31 PM »

"Traditional Marriage" TM - rites practiced in the white suburbs of America ever since the late forties or early fifties.
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« Reply #174 on: August 01, 2012, 04:26:52 PM »

Quote
"Traditional Marriage" TM - rites practiced in the white suburbs of America ever since the late forties or early fifties
So before the 40's and 50's I take it gay marriage, marriage to horses or inanimate objects was ok, correct?

PP
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #175 on: August 01, 2012, 04:37:11 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Quote
"Traditional Marriage" TM - rites practiced in the white suburbs of America ever since the late forties or early fifties
So before the 40's and 50's I take it gay marriage, marriage to horses or inanimate objects was ok, correct?

PP

No, but in America "traditional marriage" often has absolutely nothing to do with Sacramental Marriage, and so for all intents and purposes, there is really no difference, both gay and straight marriage in the American sense are equally heterodox.  Only the Lutherans and Anglicans in the US have practised Sacramental Marriage, and we would debate even this. We Orthodox and Catholics then not be defending traditional American marriage rather we should be promoting the vocation of The Divine Mystery of Holy Matrimony, and not really get caught up in the rest.  For example, this Chick-fil-A company is nice for practising Christian values in the work-place, however, in all honesty, Mormon marriage is not Sacramental or recognized by the Church, so what are we applauding here exactly?

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 04:38:04 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
ialmisry
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« Reply #176 on: August 01, 2012, 04:37:51 PM »

Quote
"Traditional Marriage" TM - rites practiced in the white suburbs of America ever since the late forties or early fifties
So before the 40's and 50's I take it gay marriage, marriage to horses or inanimate objects was ok, correct?

PP
I've heard stories about lonely Romanian shepherds. Maybe Augustine will share.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
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ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
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« Reply #177 on: August 01, 2012, 04:39:49 PM »

My CFA was also packed today:  line out the door, and drive-thru line out the parking lot and into the street. 
BTW, This is NOT typical for any CFA I have seen other than today
I heard the one outside Chicago had a two hour wait.  The manager had people bring out water.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
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« Reply #178 on: August 01, 2012, 04:40:12 PM »

CFA- the new shrine of the American conservative religion.
jealous.

that's not the bread line in Moscow, comrade.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 04:42:18 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
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Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,963



« Reply #179 on: August 01, 2012, 04:44:53 PM »

Yeah one man and a woman or one man an multiple women.
Polygamy is never encouraged in the Bible, and every instance of it doesn't end well.  It first crops up in the corruption of Cain's line.

God only took one rib from Adam.

This has nothing to do with the post Augustin was replying to.
au contraire.  It has everything to do with it.  So Jesus says Matthew 19:4.
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Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
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