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Author Topic: Gay Marriage, Testament laws, and Chick-Fil-A  (Read 12224 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« Reply #180 on: August 01, 2012, 04:49:56 PM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

He's wrong; a vast portion, if not nearly all, societies understood marriage to be one man and however many women; others understood it to be one woman and one or more men.
Interesting.  I wonder when "new evidence" will be presented to show Adam have more wives then just Eve.

Are you suggesting I'm wrong?  If so, I encourage you to read more about other cultures, especially in times past.
Why?  We have the original blue print, why should we hunt down permutations of deviance therefrom?  But even in that, you are wrong. Simple biology has helped to pull cultures back to the straight and narrow, and as a consequence the vast majority of marriages in all cultures have been monogamy.
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« Reply #181 on: August 01, 2012, 04:50:19 PM »

Quote
"Traditional Marriage" TM - rites practiced in the white suburbs of America ever since the late forties or early fifties
So before the 40's and 50's I take it gay marriage, marriage to horses or inanimate objects was ok, correct?

PP

Did you really just suggest that gay marriage is comparable to bestiality or "marrying" an object?
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« Reply #182 on: August 01, 2012, 04:50:53 PM »

During my visit to Chick-Fil-A today, I was asked, before purchase, to present my Heterosexual ID card.  Oh wait that didn't happen.
What?!  Was the gay-dar broken?
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« Reply #183 on: August 01, 2012, 04:52:14 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



CFA- the new shrine of the American conservative religion.
jealous.

that's not the bread line in Moscow, comrade.


stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #184 on: August 01, 2012, 04:53:04 PM »

Quote
"Traditional Marriage" TM - rites practiced in the white suburbs of America ever since the late forties or early fifties
So before the 40's and 50's I take it gay marriage, marriage to horses or inanimate objects was ok, correct?

PP

Did you really just suggest that gay marriage is comparable to bestiality or "marrying" an object?

It's worse.
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« Reply #185 on: August 01, 2012, 06:30:51 PM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

He's wrong; a vast portion, if not nearly all, societies understood marriage to be one man and however many women; others understood it to be one woman and one or more men.
Interesting.  I wonder when "new evidence" will be presented to show Adam have more wives then just Eve.

Are you suggesting I'm wrong?  If so, I encourage you to read more about other cultures, especially in times past.

Because people were wrong in the past no way supports the notion we should make the same mistakes today.  I'm more interested in the original marriage than all the fake ones which came later.  Sort of like leaving Protestantism for Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #186 on: August 01, 2012, 06:31:25 PM »

Quote
Is it then okay to have same sex attraction
To reference Fr. Hopko, it is nothing more than a temptation to have sex. That in and of itself is not an act. He was pretty clear that it is fine, but it is what you do WITH that temptation, just like anything else, is either sinful or not.

PP

Let me ask, and this would not be limited to homosexual tendencies, but any lustful thoughts:

I would agree that it is not the thought that is a sin, but the action. Yet, if the thought alone were to become an obsession of sort to the point of distracting us from our own repentance and God, would that not also be sinful?

Let's test that theory by making an extreme hypothetical. What if you are sexually attracted to animals? Not an obsession but that's what turns you on sexually. Is that a Spiritual illness in and of itself even if not acted upon? How about attraction to kids... etc.

Where is the line? How do you know which is a Spiritual attack and which one is 'just the way you are' ?

Maybe unnatural sexual attractions are just that, un natural and a form of demonic attack. We may be just separating out the various forms, Homsexuality as "Normal" but Bestiality as Perverted, solely based on current cultural norms.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 06:32:25 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #187 on: August 01, 2012, 06:33:01 PM »

"Traditional Marriage" TM - rites practiced in the white suburbs of America ever since the late forties or early fifties.
And ordained at the creation of mankind. 
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« Reply #188 on: August 02, 2012, 12:43:11 AM »

Yeah one man and a woman or one man an multiple women.
Polygamy is never encouraged in the Bible, and every instance of it doesn't end well.  It first crops up in the corruption of Cain's line.

God only took one rib from Adam.

This has nothing to do with the post Augustin was replying to.
au contraire.  It has everything to do with it.  So Jesus says Matthew 19:4.

The stance of the Bible on polygamy, and marriage in general, has nothing to do with the claim that marriage has always, everywhere, been between one man and one woman, nor does it have anything to do with the proper response to that claim (namely, that it is absurd).
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« Reply #189 on: August 02, 2012, 12:43:12 AM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

He's wrong; a vast portion, if not nearly all, societies understood marriage to be one man and however many women; others understood it to be one woman and one or more men.
Interesting.  I wonder when "new evidence" will be presented to show Adam have more wives then just Eve.

Are you suggesting I'm wrong?  If so, I encourage you to read more about other cultures, especially in times past.

Because people were wrong in the past no way supports the notion we should make the same mistakes today.  I'm more interested in the original marriage than all the fake ones which came later.  Sort of like leaving Protestantism for Orthodoxy.

That's nice, but then your previous post failed to address my critique of your friend's foolish idea.
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The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

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« Reply #190 on: August 02, 2012, 12:43:12 AM »

Quote
Is it then okay to have same sex attraction
To reference Fr. Hopko, it is nothing more than a temptation to have sex. That in and of itself is not an act. He was pretty clear that it is fine, but it is what you do WITH that temptation, just like anything else, is either sinful or not.

PP

Let me ask, and this would not be limited to homosexual tendencies, but any lustful thoughts:

I would agree that it is not the thought that is a sin, but the action. Yet, if the thought alone were to become an obsession of sort to the point of distracting us from our own repentance and God, would that not also be sinful?

Let's test that theory by making an extreme hypothetical. What if you are sexually attracted to animals? Not an obsession but that's what turns you on sexually. Is that a Spiritual illness in and of itself even if not acted upon? How about attraction to kids... etc.

Where is the line? How do you know which is a Spiritual attack and which one is 'just the way you are' ?

Maybe unnatural sexual attractions are just that, un natural and a form of demonic attack. We may be just separating out the various forms, Homsexuality as "Normal" but Bestiality as Perverted, solely based on current cultural norms.

All desire to sin is perverted; or do you think your own temptations and sinful desires are healthy and inspired by the Spirit?
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« Reply #191 on: August 02, 2012, 09:52:39 AM »

I hope all of you would agree we are involved in a great war between good and evil, God and Satan.  It has been this way for a long time.  Understanding this, we should also understand when engaged in a war where frontal assaults will fail (Satan), other tactics must be utilized, subtle tactics, from the inside to create a weakened infrastructure.  Enter evolution.  Oh, I know I'm just an uneducated goob, but if you can get people to question the Creation story God gave us, all else is warm butter and easily cut apart.  Enter the marriage debate.  If evolution is true and Adam and Eve are nothing more than a parable, there is no standard for marriage resulting in people using facts from secular history to battle against an ordination from God.  We find people within the church body arguing FOR homosexual marriages rather than protecting true marriage, we find ordained and openly/practicing homosexual ministers who welcome homosexual couples into a false teaching and believing what they do is ok, we find further division in the church body and major splits of formally conservative denominations.  Rest assured, the liturgical churches are not immune to this infection either or we would not be having this discussion.  Until we realize its a tactical move with a purpose, we have not way to stop it and make the church body strong again.  I would write more with greater detail, but I post from my phone.
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« Reply #192 on: August 02, 2012, 10:22:22 AM »

Quote
Is it then okay to have same sex attraction
To reference Fr. Hopko, it is nothing more than a temptation to have sex. That in and of itself is not an act. He was pretty clear that it is fine, but it is what you do WITH that temptation, just like anything else, is either sinful or not.

PP

Let me ask, and this would not be limited to homosexual tendencies, but any lustful thoughts:

I would agree that it is not the thought that is a sin, but the action. Yet, if the thought alone were to become an obsession of sort to the point of distracting us from our own repentance and God, would that not also be sinful?

Let's test that theory by making an extreme hypothetical. What if you are sexually attracted to animals? Not an obsession but that's what turns you on sexually. Is that a Spiritual illness in and of itself even if not acted upon? How about attraction to kids... etc.

Where is the line? How do you know which is a Spiritual attack and which one is 'just the way you are' ?

Maybe unnatural sexual attractions are just that, un natural and a form of demonic attack. We may be just separating out the various forms, Homsexuality as "Normal" but Bestiality as Perverted, solely based on current cultural norms.

All desire to sin is perverted; or do you think your own temptations and sinful desires are healthy and inspired by the Spirit?

I am not sure it is the same thing.

I would say to by Gay Brother that his same sex attraction falls into the same category of sin as pre marital sex. It is sex outside of marriage, My own sinfulness in terms of sexual attraction to Women while I was single for just one of many examples, is nearly the same thing. It's the act not the urge that counts.The central sin is actually having sex ( any sex) outside of Marriage. The urge to have sex albeit with a Woman, another Man or a stack of logs is irrelevant.

I am not so sure of that now.  
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 10:23:15 AM by Marc1152 » Logged

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ialmisry
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« Reply #193 on: August 02, 2012, 12:00:18 PM »

Yeah one man and a woman or one man an multiple women.
Polygamy is never encouraged in the Bible, and every instance of it doesn't end well.  It first crops up in the corruption of Cain's line.

God only took one rib from Adam.

This has nothing to do with the post Augustin was replying to.
au contraire.  It has everything to do with it.  So Jesus says Matthew 19:4.

The stance of the Bible on polygamy, and marriage in general, has nothing to do with the claim that marriage has always, everywhere, been between one man and one woman, nor does it have anything to do with the proper response to that claim (namely, that it is absurd).
Only if you deny that the Bible has anything to say about what is real.
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« Reply #194 on: August 02, 2012, 12:32:29 PM »

It seems this controversy is blown out of proportion by the media, like so many other things.  We went today and in the lengthy line waiting to order beside us was a homosexual female couple.  Apparently, they didn't care and like the chicken.
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« Reply #195 on: August 02, 2012, 02:15:55 PM »

The Cardinal of Chicago, also born and raised in Chicago as I, stated the matter quite nicely to our dear leader Rahm I, when he said Chick-Fil-A didn't represent "Chicago Values," by which I guess he means Blago and Tony Rezko, two of his friends.

And Louis Farrakhan
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/rahm-stiffs-chick-fil-welcomes-louis-farrakhan_648990.html
Quote
Recent comments by those who administer our city seem to assume that the city government can decide for everyone what are the “values” that must be held by citizens of Chicago. I was born and raised here, and my understanding of being a Chicagoan never included submitting my value system to the government for approval. Must those whose personal values do not conform to those of the government of the day move from the city? Is the City Council going to set up a “Council Committee on Un-Chicagoan Activities” and call those of us who are suspect to appear before it? I would have argued a few days ago that I believe such a move is, if I can borrow a phrase, “un-Chicagoan.”

The value in question is espousal of “gender-free marriage.” Approval of state-sponsored homosexual unions has very quickly become a litmus test for bigotry; and espousing the understanding of marriage that has prevailed among all peoples throughout human history is now, supposedly, outside the American consensus. Are Americans so exceptional that we are free to define “marriage” (or other institutions we did not invent) at will? What are we re-defining?

People who are not Christian or religious at all take for granted that marriage is the union of a man and a woman for the sake of family and, of its nature, for life. The laws of civilizations much older than ours assume this understanding of marriage. This is also what religious leaders of almost all faiths have taught throughout the ages. Jesus affirmed this understanding of marriage when he spoke of “two becoming one flesh” (Mt. 19: 4-6). Was Jesus a bigot? Could Jesus be accepted as a Chicagoan? Would Jesus be more “enlightened” if he had the privilege of living in our society? One is welcome to believe that, of course; but it should not become the official state religion, at least not in a land that still fancies itself free. Surely there must be a way to properly respect people who are gay or lesbian without using civil law to undermine the nature of marriage.  Surely we can find a way not to play off newly invented individual rights to “marriage” against constitutionally protected freedom of religious belief and religious practice. The State’s attempting to redefine marriage has become a defining moment not for marriage, which is what it is, but for our increasingly fragile “civil union” as citizens.
http://www.archchicago.org/blog/
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« Reply #196 on: August 02, 2012, 04:41:14 PM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

He's wrong; a vast portion, if not nearly all, societies understood marriage to be one man and however many women; others understood it to be one woman and one or more men.
Interesting.  I wonder when "new evidence" will be presented to show Adam have more wives then just Eve.

Are you suggesting I'm wrong?  If so, I encourage you to read more about other cultures, especially in times past.

Because people were wrong in the past no way supports the notion we should make the same mistakes today.  I'm more interested in the original marriage than all the fake ones which came later.  Sort of like leaving Protestantism for Orthodoxy.

That's nice, but then your previous post failed to address my critique of your friend's foolish idea.

What friend and what idea?
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« Reply #197 on: August 02, 2012, 05:28:49 PM »

I don't think Jesus ever agitated against Roman marriage laws.
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« Reply #198 on: August 03, 2012, 12:31:27 AM »

Yeah one man and a woman or one man an multiple women.
Polygamy is never encouraged in the Bible, and every instance of it doesn't end well.  It first crops up in the corruption of Cain's line.

God only took one rib from Adam.

This has nothing to do with the post Augustin was replying to.
au contraire.  It has everything to do with it.  So Jesus says Matthew 19:4.

The stance of the Bible on polygamy, and marriage in general, has nothing to do with the claim that marriage has always, everywhere, been between one man and one woman, nor does it have anything to do with the proper response to that claim (namely, that it is absurd).
Only if you deny that the Bible has anything to say about what is real.

Are you intentionally being dense, or do you genuinely not understand what Augustin was responding to?  He was responding to a claim that marriage has always and everywhere been between one man and one woman; unless you have no knowledge of almost any other cultures and little knowledge of history, it is blatantly obvious that such an idea is false, and the Bible in no way supports the idea that marriage has always and everywhere been between one man and one woman.  In fact, the Bible itself proves marriage has not always been between one man and one woman.
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« Reply #199 on: August 03, 2012, 12:31:27 AM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

He's wrong; a vast portion, if not nearly all, societies understood marriage to be one man and however many women; others understood it to be one woman and one or more men.
Interesting.  I wonder when "new evidence" will be presented to show Adam have more wives then just Eve.

Are you suggesting I'm wrong?  If so, I encourage you to read more about other cultures, especially in times past.

Because people were wrong in the past no way supports the notion we should make the same mistakes today.  I'm more interested in the original marriage than all the fake ones which came later.  Sort of like leaving Protestantism for Orthodoxy.

That's nice, but then your previous post failed to address my critique of your friend's foolish idea.

What friend and what idea?

It seems I mixed you up with sprtslvr1973, but nonetheless your post failed to address my critique of the idea layed out in the post to which I originally responded.
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« Reply #200 on: August 03, 2012, 01:30:48 AM »

I hope all of you would agree we are involved in a great war between good and evil, God and Satan.  It has been this way for a long time.  Understanding this, we should also understand when engaged in a war where frontal assaults will fail (Satan), other tactics must be utilized,
subtle tactics, from the inside to create a weakened infrastructure.
I agree, I am just not sure what side you are on (honestly).

Quote
  Enter evolution.  Oh, I know I'm just an uneducated goob, but if you can get people to question the Creation story God gave us, all else is warm butter and easily cut apart.

You are not uneducated, you have a much finer ability to express yourself in the English language than I do. I would replace ignorant for uneducated since your education seems fine to me. What you are describing is a variation of the domino theory. Your thoughts on Vietnam would be useful here.

Quote
Enter the marriage debate.  If evolution is true and Adam and Eve are nothing more than a parable, there is no standard for marriage resulting in people using facts from secular history to battle against an ordination from God.
I see nothing of the  sort. Explain yourself.

Quote
We find people within the church body arguing FOR homosexual marriages rather than protecting true marriage, we find ordained and openly/practicing homosexual ministers who welcome homosexual couples into a false teaching and believing what they do is ok, we find further division in the church body and major splits of formally conservative denominations.  Rest assured, the liturgical churches are not immune to this infection either or we would not be having this discussion.  Until we realize its a tactical move with a purpose, we have not way to stop it and make the church body strong again.  I would write more with greater detail, but I post from my phone.
I do not need more detail on this topic since I do not agree that the Episcopalians are the Church body. But if you do get off your phone you might address the other issues on a computer.

I am not picking on you Kerdy, I am just curious about how you think'
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« Reply #201 on: August 03, 2012, 07:40:52 AM »

Yeah one man and a woman or one man an multiple women.
Polygamy is never encouraged in the Bible, and every instance of it doesn't end well.  It first crops up in the corruption of Cain's line.

God only took one rib from Adam.

This has nothing to do with the post Augustin was replying to.
au contraire.  It has everything to do with it.  So Jesus says Matthew 19:4.

The stance of the Bible on polygamy, and marriage in general, has nothing to do with the claim that marriage has always, everywhere, been between one man and one woman, nor does it have anything to do with the proper response to that claim (namely, that it is absurd).
Only if you deny that the Bible has anything to say about what is real.

Are you intentionally being dense, or do you genuinely not understand what Augustin was responding to?  He was responding to a claim that marriage has always and everywhere been between one man and one woman; unless you have no knowledge of almost any other cultures and little knowledge of history, it is blatantly obvious that such an idea is false, and the Bible in no way supports the idea that marriage has always and everywhere been between one man and one woman.  In fact, the Bible itself proves marriage has not always been between one man and one woman.
But it does provide the design to be as such and consistently states it should be.
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« Reply #202 on: August 03, 2012, 07:41:56 AM »

Fwiw,
A gay friend has voiced his annoyance with the 'gay agenda' for lack of a better term here. What's more, he has on more than one occasion stated that 'societies around the world from the beginning of time understood marriage to be one man, one woman'.

He's wrong; a vast portion, if not nearly all, societies understood marriage to be one man and however many women; others understood it to be one woman and one or more men.
Interesting.  I wonder when "new evidence" will be presented to show Adam have more wives then just Eve.

Are you suggesting I'm wrong?  If so, I encourage you to read more about other cultures, especially in times past.

Because people were wrong in the past no way supports the notion we should make the same mistakes today.  I'm more interested in the original marriage than all the fake ones which came later.  Sort of like leaving Protestantism for Orthodoxy.

That's nice, but then your previous post failed to address my critique of your friend's foolish idea.

What friend and what idea?

It seems I mixed you up with sprtslvr1973, but nonetheless your post failed to address my critique of the idea layed out in the post to which I originally responded.
No problem.  Mixups happen.
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« Reply #203 on: August 03, 2012, 07:44:42 AM »

I hope all of you would agree we are involved in a great war between good and evil, God and Satan.  It has been this way for a long time.  Understanding this, we should also understand when engaged in a war where frontal assaults will fail (Satan), other tactics must be utilized,
subtle tactics, from the inside to create a weakened infrastructure.
I agree, I am just not sure what side you are on (honestly).

Quote
 Enter evolution.  Oh, I know I'm just an uneducated goob, but if you can get people to question the Creation story God gave us, all else is warm butter and easily cut apart.

You are not uneducated, you have a much finer ability to express yourself in the English language than I do. I would replace ignorant for uneducated since your education seems fine to me. What you are describing is a variation of the domino theory. Your thoughts on Vietnam would be useful here.

Quote
Enter the marriage debate.  If evolution is true and Adam and Eve are nothing more than a parable, there is no standard for marriage resulting in people using facts from secular history to battle against an ordination from God.
I see nothing of the  sort. Explain yourself.

Quote
We find people within the church body arguing FOR homosexual marriages rather than protecting true marriage, we find ordained and openly/practicing homosexual ministers who welcome homosexual couples into a false teaching and believing what they do is ok, we find further division in the church body and major splits of formally conservative denominations.  Rest assured, the liturgical churches are not immune to this infection either or we would not be having this discussion.  Until we realize its a tactical move with a purpose, we have not way to stop it and make the church body strong again.  I would write more with greater detail, but I post from my phone.
I do not need more detail on this topic since I do not agree that the Episcopalians are the Church body. But if you do get off your phone you might address the other issues on a computer.

I am not picking on you Kerdy, I am just curious about how you think'

I would love to, but I am on vacation and traveling, so I do not have access to my computer for at least the next month, but if you are unsure which side I am on (honestly), I can't imagine what I could provide to you.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 07:47:19 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #204 on: August 03, 2012, 11:32:24 AM »

it's not to spite gay people, but a show of support for Chik-fil-a for standing up for their principles and for the norms of traditional Christian marriage in the face of a barrage of pro-gay and pro-gay marriage hatred and ridicule.

Hate the sin and not the sinner! My complaint is that the LG....whatever that acronymn is, are always in your face about the abominable behaviour.  If you want this sort of lifestyle - go for it, otherwise keep it to yourself.  I know dont want to know the if or why you are gay just leave us hetros alone.  If you ask anyone to guess what percentage of gays make up our population some will say as much as 30% and why - becuase of our "cave in media", plus this adgenda is being pushed by our TV and Movie producers.  In reality, this population is closer to 2 or 3%, but just look at the disproportionate attention these folks are receiving from the puplic at large.  Bottom line: What ever your life style choice is, keep it under your belt.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 11:33:28 AM by JoeS2 » Logged
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« Reply #205 on: August 03, 2012, 06:42:26 PM »

Only in America is buying yourself fast food considered a religious or political statement. In some cities people waited in line for over an hour to buy overpriced chicken sandwiches at Chick-Fil-A . When was the last time you saw hundreds of people wait in line to volunteer at homeless shelter or soup kitchen?

eta: eat at home, it's cheaper, it's healthier and tastes better. plus you know whether or not you dropped that piece of chicken on the floor.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 06:45:22 PM by Tallitot » Logged

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« Reply #206 on: August 03, 2012, 07:06:20 PM »

Bottom line: What ever your life style choice is, keep it under your belt.

Then take off the wedding rings, quit talking about wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends not to mention hugging and kissing them in public. Having proms, dances, etc.

In other words stop all human sexual behavior.

Good luck with that.

Some gays make a point of their behavior using the same tactics other marginalized people did: blacks with their sit-ins.

Most would be just glad to be able to do what you heteros do without worrying about any flack.

So give them the latter and you will receive the end of the former.
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« Reply #207 on: August 03, 2012, 07:16:38 PM »

I think a lot of gay bring this on themselves.......they go in your face about thier abomidable behaviour and then complain when your resist their demostrations of purient acts.   What do you guys or girls want?   Do you want us heterosexuals to demonstrate and clog up city streets to force our point of view?Huh?    We could care less about your sexual preference just keep it to your selves.........  Demonstrate some class for once.
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« Reply #208 on: August 03, 2012, 07:27:53 PM »

I think a lot of gay bring this on themselves.......they go in your face about thier abomidable behaviour and then complain when your resist their demostrations of purient acts.   What do you guys or girls want?   Do you want us heterosexuals to demonstrate and clog up city streets to force our point of view?Huh?    We could care less about your sexual preference just keep it to your selves.........  Demonstrate some class for once.

So say everyone who is privileged.

Sorry buddy, but I've seen real violence against gays just being "normal". Not to mention violence against men who "seem gay".

A lot of people still seem to care. I think this is changing in America and have seen change within my lifetime.

A kid was nearly beaten to death at my high school for acting "gay". There were no "gays" where I lived. Of there were, but you get my point.

All this demonstrating and stuff will go away once folks truly don't create a hostile environment for homosexuals.

The politics of identity is too complicated for such reductionism. And unfortunately as I have said in other threads the politics of identity takes away from the real discussion: class.

But I cannot deny that in my city, as gay friendly as it is (it gets a bad and inaccurate rap in this regard) there are some places where its a matter of safety about how one, especially men, comport themselves, much less if they happen to be out and about in a casual manner with their boyfriend.  
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« Reply #209 on: August 03, 2012, 07:30:43 PM »

FWIW, one of the "gayer" parts of my city has their annual festival around the 4th of July with a ridiculous parade.

I don't really like festivals. And every parade is a gay one in my book. And I find the whole thing ridiculous and demeaning frankly, but I understand from where such behavior comes.

And I just ignore it.

NBD.
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« Reply #210 on: August 03, 2012, 07:36:19 PM »

Gays are okay with people feeling better than them.  Gays do want to keep their lifestyle to themselves, but their quality of life is purposefully infringed upon by these "pro-family" organizations.  Most want to lead normal lives like the rest of America, but because they bond outside the law their relationships don't matter.  Federal law protects against discrimination because of race, religion, ethnicity, age, sex, and disabilities.  You'll notice something is missing.  Gay partnerships do not matter to the IRS, to federal law, or to employers.  It is fully legal to discriminate as an employer and landlord (though that is starting to change) specifically on the basis of sexual orientation.    Over 1000 benefits and privileges enjoyed by heterosexual couples are denied to gays.  Some criticize the mayors for not having examples of discrimination to justly block the expansion of Chick-fil-a.  That's missing the point- discrimination against homosexuals is all too often not legally considered discrimination to begin with.

This is not simply an omission.  It is the expressed political platform of both the national Democratic and Republican parties to prevent fully equal status of gay partnerships.  I would like to believe that this cause is championed in the name of pure theocracy, in which case it would be intellectually honest.  It is more accurate to say that many equate homosexuality to  mating with wild animals, to molesting and abusing innocent children, to rape, and to fetishism.  We have seen this occur in this thread, as if the consensual loving relationship between two males or females in the manner of a male and a female is equivalent to a heinous crime.  

To say that gays are a minority, so they should keep quiet, or they are an abomination against God, so should be rightly punished, is missing the point.  Gays pay taxes.  They serve on jury duty.  They make your hair look fabulous or work in the office alongside you.  They might even be your neighbors.  They're normal Americans who generally want the same recognition that heterosexual couples get.  They might still ask you to accept them, and you may still be disgusted by their pride parades.  Fine.  They at least want the law to accept them as full citizens, and that is what this is all about.

Now the media frenzy to create a summer story, or the politicians' scramble to score points is another matter.  But this is really about gays.  And honestly, the group of people who have the full financial attention and social respect are the Christians.  Playing martyr like the world's going to end, like Satan the lord of darkness himself is stirring your coffee at Starbucks and also looking for a tax break to further his dark ends on minimum wage doesn't change the fact that the gays still have the short end of the stick legally speaking, and are actually people who want to be treated equally when it comes to the law.

I think a lot of gay bring this on themselves.......they go in your face about thier abomidable behaviour and then complain when your resist their demostrations of purient acts.   What do you guys or girls want?   Do you want us heterosexuals to demonstrate and clog up city streets to force our point of view?Huh?    We could care less about your sexual preference just keep it to your selves.........  Demonstrate some class for once.
Class?  Like the class you show when you "forget" and disparage the LGBT acronym?  When you routinely call them abominations?  Maybe they are, but do you honestly expect them to listen to you when you talk like that?
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 07:38:30 PM by FantaLimon » Logged
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« Reply #211 on: August 03, 2012, 07:51:08 PM »

I don't even have the time to go on about how the "right" and "conservative Christians" have made TV, Radio, Hollywood, Fortune 25 companies, etc. bend to their will through "demonstrations" and boycotting.

Now they want to complain about this?

LOL.

It proves something I learned a long time ago about the most quick to define themselves as conservative: they are the one of the few species of cowardly bully.

Most bullies ain't cowards, all your after school specials aside, the are able to wantonly pick on whoever they want for a reason, they can and have done so despite resistance.

But there is a certain species of bully that comes to be in adulthood with given excess and often unearned power. They are great at lording their power till someone, and it doesn't take much, comes along to shut them up.

I find this common in the corporate world. Law enforcement. And conservative politics.

These are the only places you are going to find the weak projecting strength in virtue on institutional protection.

Forget the After School Specials on bullies, we need After Work Specials on them.

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« Reply #212 on: August 03, 2012, 07:51:42 PM »

The Gays have the media at least most of the media, newsprint, and major TV spots in their corner.  We live in a gay world.

Maybe the Orthodox church will approve of the gay life style.....maybe
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« Reply #213 on: August 03, 2012, 07:55:03 PM »

Gays are okay with people feeling better than them.  Gays do want to keep their lifestyle to themselves, but their quality of life is purposefully infringed upon by these "pro-family" organizations.  Most want to lead normal lives like the rest of America, but because they bond outside the law their relationships don't matter.  Federal law protects against discrimination because of race, religion, ethnicity, age, sex, and disabilities.  You'll notice something is missing.  Gay partnerships do not matter to the IRS, to federal law, or to employers.  It is fully legal to discriminate as an employer and landlord (though that is starting to change) specifically on the basis of sexual orientation.    Over 1000 benefits and privileges enjoyed by heterosexual couples are denied to gays.  Some criticize the mayors for not having examples of discrimination to justly block the expansion of Chick-fil-a.  That's missing the point- discrimination against homosexuals is all too often not legally considered discrimination to begin with.

This is not simply an omission.  It is the expressed political platform of both the national Democratic and Republican parties to prevent fully equal status of gay partnerships.  I would like to believe that this cause is championed in the name of pure theocracy, in which case it would be intellectually honest.  It is more accurate to say that many equate homosexuality to  mating with wild animals, to molesting and abusing innocent children, to rape, and to fetishism.  We have seen this occur in this thread, as if the consensual loving relationship between two males or females in the manner of a male and a female is equivalent to a heinous crime.  

To say that gays are a minority, so they should keep quiet, or they are an abomination against God, so should be rightly punished, is missing the point.  Gays pay taxes.  They serve on jury duty.  They make your hair look fabulous or work in the office alongside you.  They might even be your neighbors.  They're normal Americans who generally want the same recognition that heterosexual couples get.  They might still ask you to accept them, and you may still be disgusted by their pride parades.  Fine.  They at least want the law to accept them as full citizens, and that is what this is all about.

Now the media frenzy to create a summer story, or the politicians' scramble to score points is another matter.  But this is really about gays.  And honestly, the group of people who have the full financial attention and social respect are the Christians.  Playing martyr like the world's going to end, like Satan the lord of darkness himself is stirring your coffee at Starbucks and also looking for a tax break to further his dark ends on minimum wage doesn't change the fact that the gays still have the short end of the stick legally speaking, and are actually people who want to be treated equally when it comes to the law.

I think a lot of gay bring this on themselves.......they go in your face about thier abomidable behaviour and then complain when your resist their demostrations of purient acts.   What do you guys or girls want?   Do you want us heterosexuals to demonstrate and clog up city streets to force our point of view?Huh?    We could care less about your sexual preference just keep it to your selves.........  Demonstrate some class for once.
Class?  Like the class you show when you "forget" and disparage the LGBT acronym?  When you routinely call them abominations?  Maybe they are, but do you honestly expect them to listen to you when you talk like that?

Sorry, Fanta, but I don't like Fanta. And certainly not Fanta Limon.

But I might just go out and drink a can in solidarity with you tomorrow.

If these people will eat a crummy chicken sandwich to make a point, I guess I can drink a crummy can of soda.

Cheers!
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« Reply #214 on: August 03, 2012, 07:56:52 PM »

The Gays have the media at least most of the media, newsprint, and major TV spots in their corner.  We live in a gay world.

Maybe the Orthodox church will approve of the gay life style.....maybe

Amazing how all these crazy groups which have been piled on have controlled the media.

Tallitot is right. I gotta go gay Jew so I can get the magic ring that let's me drink Fanta for free throughout the world.

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« Reply #215 on: August 03, 2012, 08:10:00 PM »

Someone quipped: "Is metropolitn Philip going to give a dispensation for chicken on Wed. to  all our culture warriors?" Plus it's the beginning of the fast, you know.
I'm going Tueday.  Again.
make sure it's before vespers; also are you aware to what extent the southern baptist co venting and organizations associated with it ( to which is reasonable to think our pro-family filthy capitalist donates) is involved in proselytism in eastern Europe ? They built a very large university in Oradea ( Romania) for instance,
Yes, I'm well aware.  I also know the Baptist missionary to Romania who serves now  as priest in the Romanian Patriarchal Cathedral.  Pure Gold Fears No Fire.

Better them than the socialists and the secularists.
I think the Arab Orthodox are better off as socialists (which I understand they usually are in Syria, Lebanon, Palesine and Jordan) than zionist baptists. Check this:
http://www.theanchorchurch.org/1.html
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« Reply #216 on: August 03, 2012, 08:16:23 PM »

Telling someone to keep their 'gayness to themselves' as some people have advocated here is like telling a heterosexual person to keep their 'straightness to themselves' and stop wearing wedding rings and hugging each other or telling a dark-skinned person to wear a mask because you don't like the color of their skin. Why do Americans even make crap like this such a big deal? Our economy is going to Hell yet most of our population is composed of overreligious right-winged idiots who care more about the religion of their president, gay marriage and evolution in public schools rather than our actual problems. I hate my country.
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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« Reply #217 on: August 03, 2012, 08:19:21 PM »

Telling someone to keep their 'gayness to themselves' as some people have advocated here is like telling a heterosexual person to keep their 'straightness to themselves' and stop wearing wedding rings and hugging each other or telling a dark-skinned person to wear a mask because you don't like the color of their skin. Why do Americans even make crap like this such a big deal? Our economy is going to Hell yet most of our population is composed of overreligious right-winged idiots who care more about the religion of their president, gay marriage and evolution in public schools rather than our actual problems. I hate my country.
You don't hate this country.  You're just feeling the burn of being baptized into American democracy.
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« Reply #218 on: August 03, 2012, 08:43:46 PM »

Gays are okay with people feeling better than them.  Gays do want to keep their lifestyle to themselves, but their quality of life is purposefully infringed upon by these "pro-family" organizations.  Most want to lead normal lives like the rest of America, but because they bond outside the law their relationships don't matter.  Federal law protects against discrimination because of race, religion, ethnicity, age, sex, and disabilities.  You'll notice something is missing.  Gay partnerships do not matter to the IRS, to federal law, or to employers.  It is fully legal to discriminate as an employer and landlord (though that is starting to change) specifically on the basis of sexual orientation.    Over 1000 benefits and privileges enjoyed by heterosexual couples are denied to gays.  Some criticize the mayors for not having examples of discrimination to justly block the expansion of Chick-fil-a.  That's missing the point- discrimination against homosexuals is all too often not legally considered discrimination to begin with.

This is not simply an omission.  It is the expressed political platform of both the national Democratic and Republican parties to prevent fully equal status of gay partnerships.  I would like to believe that this cause is championed in the name of pure theocracy, in which case it would be intellectually honest.  It is more accurate to say that many equate homosexuality to  mating with wild animals, to molesting and abusing innocent children, to rape, and to fetishism.  We have seen this occur in this thread, as if the consensual loving relationship between two males or females in the manner of a male and a female is equivalent to a heinous crime.  

To say that gays are a minority, so they should keep quiet, or they are an abomination against God, so should be rightly punished, is missing the point.  Gays pay taxes.  They serve on jury duty.  They make your hair look fabulous or work in the office alongside you.  They might even be your neighbors.  They're normal Americans who generally want the same recognition that heterosexual couples get.  They might still ask you to accept them, and you may still be disgusted by their pride parades.  Fine.  They at least want the law to accept them as full citizens, and that is what this is all about.

Now the media frenzy to create a summer story, or the politicians' scramble to score points is another matter.  But this is really about gays.  And honestly, the group of people who have the full financial attention and social respect are the Christians.  Playing martyr like the world's going to end, like Satan the lord of darkness himself is stirring your coffee at Starbucks and also looking for a tax break to further his dark ends on minimum wage doesn't change the fact that the gays still have the short end of the stick legally speaking, and are actually people who want to be treated equally when it comes to the law.

I think a lot of gay bring this on themselves.......they go in your face about thier abomidable behaviour and then complain when your resist their demostrations of purient acts.   What do you guys or girls want?   Do you want us heterosexuals to demonstrate and clog up city streets to force our point of view?Huh?    We could care less about your sexual preference just keep it to your selves.........  Demonstrate some class for once.
Class?  Like the class you show when you "forget" and disparage the LGBT acronym?  When you routinely call them abominations?  Maybe they are, but do you honestly expect them to listen to you when you talk like that?

I am really not seeking a direct response from you, but just a ponder... are you homosexual, or one of the 'straight allies?'  To me it seems that some of the most anti-homo people are repressed homos, and the most "pro-" are often the straights who decide that the homos really should have access to all the perks, good social vibes and legal definitions, etc. that they themselves seem to have.  Fair enough I guess, but I wonder if it undermines the rationale for all gay (L-BTQ) 'special rights' being specially deserved on account of the harshest oppression visited upon them by the straight majority.  Perhaps the reason so many straights (and straight Christians, most younger Evangelicals and Orthodox etc. together) are coming around to support homosexual marriage and (implicitly) homo-*sexual* relationships, is that the stark lifestyle of denial that a celibate homosexual would live not by choice but by compulsion of belief, is so far different from any lifestyle allowance that exists for virtually all heterosexual people.  Sure, (straight) marriage is a sacrament, but one that can be undone and tried over at least in the Orthodox Church, Jesus' words on the matter being kindly put aside while St. Paul's (on homosexuality, the tradition offers) are retained to the strictest letter.

Personally, I think the solution to this real moral quandary would be to scale back much of the 'economy' that all Christians have grown so lax and used to so as to lord their privilege over the sexually marginalized - *rather* than to simply broaden and extend the tolerance/affirmation umbrella.  (A wannabe celibate homo, I look for the Church that would offer that kind of minimal economy, be it the world Orthodox, the Old-Calendar Orthodox, Tridentine Roman Catholics, Old Order Anabaptists, whichever.)  Yes, am nobody but a lone sinner who is going to Hell regardless of whatever sins according to Orthodoxy ... hmm, is that why there is this push for LBGTQ positive acceptance/affirmation among especially the young, convert Orthodox?

(Edit:  Above where I claim... "younger Evangelicals and Orthodox etc. together" it is only really my opinion and I'm not going to try and cover the Orthodox part.  I do recall reading some Barna Reserach Group surveys that indicate a majority of all young Evangelicals - generally who are the most "biblical" and fundamentalist-inclined - have great unease with the Evangelical leadership's positions on these issues, which I think leads to the positive acceptance or affirmation of the lifestyle, at least insofar as they might never want to hear it mentioned as a sin again.)
« Last Edit: August 03, 2012, 08:51:21 PM by Aaron M » Logged
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« Reply #219 on: August 03, 2012, 09:12:22 PM »

The Gays have the media at least most of the media, newsprint, and major TV spots in their corner.  We live in a gay world.

Maybe the Orthodox church will approve of the gay life style.....maybe
I don't see this happening, but if the Orthodox Church starts approving of things which obviously are sinful, it stops being the Orthodox Church and people will leave.
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« Reply #220 on: August 03, 2012, 09:15:18 PM »

The Gays have the media at least most of the media, newsprint, and major TV spots in their corner.  We live in a gay world.

Maybe the Orthodox church will approve of the gay life style.....maybe
I don't see this happening, but if the Orthodox Church starts approving of things which obviously are sinful, it stops being the Orthodox Church and people will leave.

Like usury?

Yeah, people are just flocking out of the Church over that one.
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« Reply #221 on: August 03, 2012, 09:20:58 PM »

orthonorm got alot of free time eh
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« Reply #222 on: August 03, 2012, 09:22:26 PM »

Telling someone to keep their 'gayness to themselves' as some people have advocated here is like telling a heterosexual person to keep their 'straightness to themselves'
Not at all.  Until the claim of "born that way" is substantiated, there are multiple possibilities.  

How many other people do you see parading around like a bunch of lunatics about their sex life?  How many other groups, including heterosexuals, shoving their sexually fueled deviant desires in everyone's face, especially in elementary schools?  

A little self restraint goes a long way.  Not showing behavior you ask not be shown to you also goes a long way.  This entire fiasco is their own hypocrisy.  What's worse is not only the homosexual community a ultra tiny fraction of the population, but these militant self proclaimed victims are an even smaller percentage and makes the rest look bad.
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« Reply #223 on: August 03, 2012, 09:23:52 PM »

orthonorm got alot of free time eh

Some time while other things are happening.
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« Reply #224 on: August 03, 2012, 09:24:22 PM »

Telling someone to keep their 'gayness to themselves' as some people have advocated here is like telling a heterosexual person to keep their 'straightness to themselves'
Not at all.  Until the claim of "born that way" is substantiated, there are multiple possibilities.  

How many other people do you see parading around like a bunch of lunatics about their sex life?  How many other groups, including heterosexuals, shoving their sexually fueled deviant desires in everyone's face, especially in elementary schools?  

A little self restraint goes a long way.  Not showing behavior you ask not be shown to you also goes a long way.  This entire fiasco is their own hypocrisy.  What's worse is not only the homosexual community a ultra tiny fraction of the population, but these militant self proclaimed victims are an even smaller percentage and makes the rest look bad.

I see heteros doing it everyday.

Every
Day
Logged

Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
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