Author Topic: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox  (Read 963 times)

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Offline MontChevalier

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Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« on: July 31, 2012, 04:09:44 PM »
So I've been looking into the Orthodox Church. I'm really confused because, so far, nearly every Orthodox Christian I've met has been very kind and has a far better community than Catholicism does. I've been Catholic for a few months and I've had nothing but hate, not peace. I thought I knew what I wanted, but I'm just not sure anymore.

I seem to have more in common with the Orthodox Church than with the Catholic. Unfortunately, culturally, I am bound ancestrally by Catholicism. And yet the corruption found in the Catholic Church is so off-putting and the fact that Catholicism is dying out with a whimper and Orthodoxy is just shining. I just don't know what to do. Catholicism comes off as womanly and Orthodoxy comes out as masculine. That's something I find attractive.

I don't know. I'm just confused.

-Mont

Offline gzt

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2012, 04:51:37 PM »
I feel for you, I really do, but I do have to warn you that if you're worried about corruption, Orthodoxy isn't the place to escape it. Community in both is a function of local circumstances, as is dying vs shining. Womanly vs manly is just completely puzzling to me. I don't mean to scare you off, mind you, I believe Orthodoxy is the Church and Catholicism isn't, but I'm also a bit alarmed at your statement that you've only "been Catholic for a few months" and you're already considering something else. I urge you not to rush headlong into anything: stability is important.

Offline MontChevalier

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2012, 05:23:47 PM »
I feel for you, I really do, but I do have to warn you that if you're worried about corruption, Orthodoxy isn't the place to escape it. Community in both is a function of local circumstances, as is dying vs shining. Womanly vs manly is just completely puzzling to me. I don't mean to scare you off, mind you, I believe Orthodoxy is the Church and Catholicism isn't, but I'm also a bit alarmed at your statement that you've only "been Catholic for a few months" and you're already considering something else. I urge you not to rush headlong into anything: stability is important.

You sound just like my best friend. "Don't do anything rash!"
Which means you're probably right...

I should clarify. I was baptized Catholic when I was a baby. So I guess, according to them, I was always Catholic. It was only some months ago that I started attending Catholic masses and yadda yadda. It's been a mess. I was once Protestant and THAT was a mess. I don't want to go back to that.

At least you're honest about corruption. But understand. The Orthodox Church has maintained tradition(Which you know), it's loyal to what it is. And it fights for what it believes in; no matter what. It's that spirit of action that just motivates.


I don't know. Maybe you're right. Maybe I should just...do some soul-searching.

-Mont

Offline MontChevalier

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2012, 05:46:54 PM »
Dude, when I see an Orthodox Priest, I see a man. That is a man. THAT is a man.

Look at this man.





When I see this man I see a man with a fist under his beard!!!!

How is this not masculine? This is the manliest man I've ever seen.

Respect.  :)

-Mont

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2012, 09:51:09 PM »
The Orthodox Church has maintained tradition(Which you know), it's loyal to what it is. And it fights for what it believes in; no matter what. It's that spirit of action that just motivates.
What?
Quote from: Orthonorm
if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

Πλούσιοι επτώχευσαν και επείνασαν
Οιδε εκζητούντες τον Κύριον
Ουκ ελαττωθήσονται παντός αγαθού

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2012, 10:15:47 PM »
I feel for you, I really do, but I do have to warn you that if you're worried about corruption, Orthodoxy isn't the place to escape it. Community in both is a function of local circumstances, as is dying vs shining. Womanly vs manly is just completely puzzling to me. I don't mean to scare you off, mind you, I believe Orthodoxy is the Church and Catholicism isn't, but I'm also a bit alarmed at your statement that you've only "been Catholic for a few months" and you're already considering something else. I urge you not to rush headlong into anything: stability is important.

You sound just like my best friend. "Don't do anything rash!"
Which means you're probably right...

I should clarify. I was baptized Catholic when I was a baby. So I guess, according to them, I was always Catholic. It was only some months ago that I started attending Catholic masses and yadda yadda. It's been a mess. I was once Protestant and THAT was a mess. I don't want to go back to that.

At least you're honest about corruption. But understand. The Orthodox Church has maintained tradition(Which you know), it's loyal to what it is. And it fights for what it believes in; no matter what. It's that spirit of action that just motivates.


I don't know. Maybe you're right. Maybe I should just...do some soul-searching.

-Mont
Orthodoxy is the right religion, but it is given to the wrong people.

Have you heard of Western Rite Orthodoxy?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline MontChevalier

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2012, 03:13:30 AM »
The Orthodox Church has maintained tradition(Which you know), it's loyal to what it is. And it fights for what it believes in; no matter what. It's that spirit of action that just motivates.
What?

I'm sorry, I must not be making any sense...

Offline MontChevalier

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2012, 03:13:56 AM »
I feel for you, I really do, but I do have to warn you that if you're worried about corruption, Orthodoxy isn't the place to escape it. Community in both is a function of local circumstances, as is dying vs shining. Womanly vs manly is just completely puzzling to me. I don't mean to scare you off, mind you, I believe Orthodoxy is the Church and Catholicism isn't, but I'm also a bit alarmed at your statement that you've only "been Catholic for a few months" and you're already considering something else. I urge you not to rush headlong into anything: stability is important.

You sound just like my best friend. "Don't do anything rash!"
Which means you're probably right...

I should clarify. I was baptized Catholic when I was a baby. So I guess, according to them, I was always Catholic. It was only some months ago that I started attending Catholic masses and yadda yadda. It's been a mess. I was once Protestant and THAT was a mess. I don't want to go back to that.

At least you're honest about corruption. But understand. The Orthodox Church has maintained tradition(Which you know), it's loyal to what it is. And it fights for what it believes in; no matter what. It's that spirit of action that just motivates.


I don't know. Maybe you're right. Maybe I should just...do some soul-searching.

-Mont
Orthodoxy is the right religion, but it is given to the wrong people.

Have you heard of Western Rite Orthodoxy?

No, this is the first time. What is it?

Offline kevlev

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2012, 03:49:51 AM »
So I've been looking into the Orthodox Church. I'm really confused because, so far, nearly every Orthodox Christian I've met has been very kind and has a far better community than Catholicism does. I've been Catholic for a few months and I've had nothing but hate, not peace. I thought I knew what I wanted, but I'm just not sure anymore.

I seem to have more in common with the Orthodox Church than with the Catholic. Unfortunately, culturally, I am bound ancestrally by Catholicism. And yet the corruption found in the Catholic Church is so off-putting and the fact that Catholicism is dying out with a whimper and Orthodoxy is just shining. I just don't know what to do. Catholicism comes off as womanly and Orthodoxy comes out as masculine. That's something I find attractive.

I don't know. I'm just confused.

-Mont

There seems to be just as much pettiness, squabbling, and politicking in Orthodox parishes as in Catholic parishes, MC. That doesn't detract from the Truth that is Orthodoxy, that's just what happens when you factor the human element into the equation. If you come into the Church, let it be because you are drawn to its Truth; not because of some utopian vision of parish life. Remember, "The true Church is not the perfect church." I wish you well.
From my youth have many passions warred against me, but do Thou Thyself defend and save me, O Saviour.

Offline Deborah

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2012, 06:34:56 AM »
So I've been looking into the Orthodox Church. I'm really confused because, so far, nearly every Orthodox Christian I've met has been very kind and has a far better community than Catholicism does. I've been Catholic for a few months and I've had nothing but hate, not peace. I thought I knew what I wanted, but I'm just not sure anymore.

I seem to have more in common with the Orthodox Church than with the Catholic. Unfortunately, culturally, I am bound ancestrally by Catholicism. And yet the corruption found in the Catholic Church is so off-putting and the fact that Catholicism is dying out with a whimper and Orthodoxy is just shining. I just don't know what to do. Catholicism comes off as womanly and Orthodoxy comes out as masculine. That's something I find attractive.

I don't know. I'm just confused.

-Mont

Hi MontChevalier, welcome to the forum! 

The feminine/masculine impressions that you found in Catholicism and Orthodoxy respectively remind me of an article written by Frederica Matthewes-Green, which you might find interesting:

http://www.frederica.com/writings/men-and-church.html

God Bless,
Deborah
Live in South/East Auckland, Franklin or North Waikato regions of New Zealand? Interested in Orthodoxy? Need transport to an Orthodox Church? Want to meet others? Please send me a PM :)

"You have made us for yourself, Lord; and our hearts are restless until they rest in You" - St. Augustine (my patron saint)

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2012, 09:23:30 AM »
Quote
No, this is the first time. What is it?
www.westernorthodox.com

This should help you out. I happen to be Western Rite Orthodox and I think it might help you out. Basically the Western Rite is Orthodoxy, but the liturgy and practices are based in the pre-schism western tradition.

It was said to me once that the Western Rite is what Rome would be if it returned to Orthodoxy. Now how accurate that is, is up to interpretation :)

In other news I'd like to comment on some things.

Quote
And yet the corruption found in the Catholic Church is so off-putting and the fact that Catholicism is dying out with a whimper and Orthodoxy is just shining
Believe me, there is corruption anywhere human hands touch. Orthodoxy is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church but it is full of humans. Humans tend to muck up everything.

Quote
I've been Catholic for a few months and I've had nothing but hate, not peace
There are many Roman Catholics that are wonderful loving people, and there are plenty of Orthodox that are hateful.

Quote
has a far better community than Catholicism does
I can say that was my observation as well.

I would stress that you seek out Orthodoxy not because of the people in the Church, but the truth it holds. I believe Orthodoxy is the one Church set up by the Apostles. I came to that understanding not because of the people in it, but because of the history, the teachings, and the t(T)raditions.

PP
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Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline MontChevalier

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2012, 11:57:35 AM »
Quote
No, this is the first time. What is it?
www.westernorthodox.com

This should help you out. I happen to be Western Rite Orthodox and I think it might help you out. Basically the Western Rite is Orthodoxy, but the liturgy and practices are based in the pre-schism western tradition.

It was said to me once that the Western Rite is what Rome would be if it returned to Orthodoxy. Now how accurate that is, is up to interpretation :)


I have a lot to read. Thank you.  :)

Quote
Quote
And yet the corruption found in the Catholic Church is so off-putting and the fact that Catholicism is dying out with a whimper and Orthodoxy is just shining
Believe me, there is corruption anywhere human hands touch. Orthodoxy is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church but it is full of humans. Humans tend to muck up everything.

That only means I have more to think about and less to look forward to. (Unrelated issues)

Quote
Quote
I've been Catholic for a few months and I've had nothing but hate, not peace
There are many Roman Catholics that are wonderful loving people, and there are plenty of Orthodox that are hateful.

I've only known liars and manipulators. Our experiences are rather different. I have to judge according to that; which is all I have. I know you can understand that.  :(

Quote
Quote
has a far better community than Catholicism does
I can say that was my observation as well.

I would stress that you seek out Orthodoxy not because of the people in the Church, but the truth it holds. I believe Orthodoxy is the one Church set up by the Apostles. I came to that understanding not because of the people in it, but because of the history, the teachings, and the t(T)raditions.

PP

Who can tell what might happen? At this stage, I may very well jump into agnosticism. This would not do my health wonders, because I've had far too many disappointments to believe that I only existed for nothing and made no change or any of the work I've wanted to do happen.

-Mont
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 11:59:04 AM by MontChevalier »

Offline Peter J

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2012, 12:10:28 PM »
So I've been looking into the Orthodox Church. I'm really confused because, so far, nearly every Orthodox Christian I've met has been very kind and has a far better community than Catholicism does. I've been Catholic for a few months and I've had nothing but hate, not peace. I thought I knew what I wanted, but I'm just not sure anymore.

I seem to have more in common with the Orthodox Church than with the Catholic. Unfortunately, culturally, I am bound ancestrally by Catholicism. And yet the corruption found in the Catholic Church is so off-putting and the fact that Catholicism is dying out with a whimper and Orthodoxy is just shining. I just don't know what to do. Catholicism comes off as womanly and Orthodoxy comes out as masculine. That's something I find attractive.

I don't know. I'm just confused.

-Mont

Hi MontChevalier. :) My first question was going to be, "Did you join Catholicism a few months ago?" ... but then I saw that in a later post you explained that you were baptized Catholic as a baby.

Regarding everything you said, I don't have any advice at this point, but I hope that things start going better for you.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 12:11:09 PM by Peter J »
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Joseph Hazen

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2012, 12:28:44 AM »
Have you heard this old one?

A man had two neighbors move into the houses on either side of him one day. He went to the neighbor on the left and was chitchatting with him and finally the new neighbor asked "Hey, what are people like in this town?"

The man asked, "Well, how did you find people in the town you just moved from?"

The neighbor frowned. "Oh it was awful. They were backbiting and gossipy, rude and inconsiderate."

The man nodded. "You'll find them the same here."

He went to the neighbor on the right side and eventually this neighbor too asked him about the people in the town. The man asked again, "Well, how did you find people in the town you just moved from?"

The neighbor smiled, "Oh we hated to leave. They were so friendly and willing to help you out, always saying hi and just kind."

The man nodded. "You'll find them the same here."

Maybe not always true, but often enough to consider it.

Offline MontChevalier

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Re: Dealing with conversion issues; Catholic-Orthodox
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2012, 06:03:29 AM »
Have you heard this old one?

A man had two neighbors move into the houses on either side of him one day. He went to the neighbor on the left and was chitchatting with him and finally the new neighbor asked "Hey, what are people like in this town?"

The man asked, "Well, how did you find people in the town you just moved from?"

The neighbor frowned. "Oh it was awful. They were backbiting and gossipy, rude and inconsiderate."

The man nodded. "You'll find them the same here."

He went to the neighbor on the right side and eventually this neighbor too asked him about the people in the town. The man asked again, "Well, how did you find people in the town you just moved from?"

The neighbor smiled, "Oh we hated to leave. They were so friendly and willing to help you out, always saying hi and just kind."

The man nodded. "You'll find them the same here."

Maybe not always true, but often enough to consider it.

This is so odd...
Yesterday, during supper, my mother told me this exact story.

-Mont