Author Topic: Converting & Jurisdictions?  (Read 2780 times)

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Offline Jennifer

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Converting & Jurisdictions?
« on: November 26, 2004, 10:47:12 AM »
Speaking generally, as I know there are exceptions, converts from the RC are received through chrismation in the SCOBA Churches.  Would that be accepted by the old calendarist groups like ROCOR?

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2004, 10:59:12 AM »
My understanding is that ROCOR would accept that.  Other old calendarist groups probably differ on the matter (my suspicion being that most would not).
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2004, 11:04:55 AM »
Technicality: ROCOR is not generally thought of as a "Old Calendrist Group" - or a church formed in resistence to the Revised Julian Calendar as the so-called schismatic "Old Calendrists" purportedly did. ROCOR, as the ROC and much of the rest of Orthodoxy, just never adopted the new fangled calendar.
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Offline Augustine

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2004, 12:07:17 PM »
Jennifer,

Yes, this would be accepted as far as I'm aware.  Where it may not be accepted, is at some Athonite monasteries and some places in Greece (or at least so I've been told by many people) and by certain groups of the Greek Old Calendarists (though from what I've been told, the "Cyprian" Resistor Synod will accept this practice, but they do not practice it themselves.)

As someone else indicated, ROCOR strictly speaking is not "Old Calendarist".  Though, I think they are somewhere in between being "Old Calendarists" and simply being an "Orthodox Church which kept the Old Calendar like most others did", since they have taken an active involvement at times in supporting certain Old Calendarists and resisting things like excessive ecumenism and other causes the "Old Calendarists" are known for protesting.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2004, 12:11:09 PM by Augustine »

Offline Anastasios

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2004, 12:11:02 PM »
Jennifer,

If you were received by chrismation in SCOBA jurisdictions, ROCOR would accept that if you later transferred to them.  If you later transferred to a Greek Old Calendarist jurisdiction, they would not and would baptize you, some calling it "conditional baptism."

You might want to ask yourself the following questions which only you can answer: what jurisdiction will best serve my spiritual needs? What is the significance of baptism in the Orthodox Church?  What local parishes are around for me to attend now? etc.

Anastasios
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Offline Jennifer

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2004, 02:30:42 PM »
I'd been told that the ROCOR parish in Tulsa required converts from SCOBA jurisdictions to be re-baptized.  

As for my personal situation, I've found a nice OCA parish.

Offline MatthewPanchisin

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2004, 02:55:22 PM »
Dear Jennifer,

I hope things are going well for you. I'm in Chicago I thought I read that you live here as well. What OCA parish are you going to, perhaps I'll see you sometime.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Offline Keble

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2004, 03:02:18 PM »
You might want to ask yourself the following questions which only you can answer: what jurisdiction will best serve my spiritual needs? What is the significance of baptism in the Orthodox Church?  What local parishes are around for me to attend now? etc.

Um, unless you're going to subscribe to "World Orthodoxy", this is branch theory ecclesiology.

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2004, 03:23:06 PM »
Um, unless you're going to subscribe to "World Orthodoxy", this is branch theory ecclesiology.


Bah! What nonsense. We Orthodox know exactly to what anastasios is refering; and it's not 'branchology'.
 ::)

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Offline Tikhon29605

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2004, 01:57:45 AM »
There is no clear answer about how Roman Catholic converts are received into Orthodoxy, even within one jurisdiction, let alone from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Each bishop seems to make up his own individual version of how to do it, in my experience.

Offline Brendan03

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2004, 09:37:55 AM »
I have found that most ROCOR will accept you once you have been received in whatever fashion by a SCOBA jurisdiction.  Not all, however.  It depends on the ROCOR parish and priest, to a certain degree.  The other Old Calendar jurisdictions are all over the map on this, I think, in terms of what they would do *practically* when faced with such a situation.

Interestingly, people who are cradle ECs are often not received by anointing with chrism in some SCOBA jurisdictions, but rather through confession and communion.

B
B

Offline Anastasios

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2004, 01:11:35 PM »
Um, unless you're going to subscribe to "World Orthodoxy", this is branch theory ecclesiology.


I myself have very clear and firm convictions that I choose not to express publicly.  However, I try to be sensitive to others' views which differ from mine and try to accept that others do not share my views.  Hence, I was attempting to present things in a more straightforward way, allowing Jennifer to answer for herself without imposing my views on her.

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Offline Anastasios

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2004, 01:21:27 PM »
I'd been told that the ROCOR parish in Tulsa required converts from SCOBA jurisdictions to be re-baptized.  

As for my personal situation, I've found a nice OCA parish.  

I am glad for you Jennifer; the OCA has some nice parishes and has a clear-cut structure that has enabled it to be relatively stable over the past 30 years.

ROCOR would never rebaptise someone already baptised in SCOBA--crazy, renegade ROCOR priests notwithstanding--however a non-Orthodox convert to SCOBA who joins ROCOR is normally received as is (Justin Kissel/Paradosis of our forum can testify to this) however sometimes if the convert asks for conditional baptism it may be given--only up to the bishop's discretion. The parish in Tulsa, I am not sure if he is operating with permission or not, so I can't say.

Anastasios
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Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Offline choirfiend

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2004, 12:15:02 AM »
Jennifer,

Are you in Tulsa? Is there an OCA church there now? I lived about an hour away when I was younger, and there was only one Orthodox church in the Tulsa area at the time, I believe, and it was Greek (for my family OO or ROCOR or anything is out of the question, so I dont know if there are any of those around Tulsa).
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Offline Jennifer

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Re:Converting & Jurisdictions?
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2004, 12:35:40 AM »
Jennifer,

Are you in Tulsa? Is there an OCA church there now? I lived about an hour away when I was younger, and there was only one Orthodox church in the Tulsa area at the time, I believe, and it was Greek (for my family OO or ROCOR or anything is out of the question, so I dont know if there are any of those around Tulsa).

I moved away from Tulsa several years ago.  There are currently 4 Orthodox churches in the Tulsa area:  GOA, AOC, OCA and ROCOR (it's in Owasso).  The Antiochian church has been there since the 1950's.  I think the ROCOR has only been around about 10 years.  The OCA church (or it might be a mission) has been there only about 2 years.