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Author Topic: Female Eucharistic Ministers in the Roman Catholic Church?  (Read 2866 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2012, 02:24:20 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.

I find this to be reasonable. I'm getting tired of seeing the same videos of that one clown mass and that one puppet mass over and over. It would be nice to have a critical discussion on the OF as it was actually intended to be (that is, what is in the rubrics) rather than the abuses that certain people commit.
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« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2012, 01:29:43 PM »

I'm getting tired of seeing the same videos of that one clown mass and that one puppet mass over and over.
OK. Here's a photo of a a “Hardrock-Mass” in the Cathedral of Tarragona (Spain) on the 8th of April 2012. (scroll down).
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/07/reason-12894-for-summorum-pontificum/
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« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2012, 03:01:20 PM »

I'm getting tired of seeing the same videos of that one clown mass and that one puppet mass over and over.
OK. Here's a photo of a a “Hardrock-Mass” in the Cathedral of Tarragona (Spain) on the 8th of April 2012. (scroll down).
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/07/reason-12894-for-summorum-pontificum/

Oy.  Vey.   Roll Eyes Shocked Roll Eyes Shocked
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« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2012, 09:39:12 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.
And what good would that do, really. The liberal Bishops are the problem to begin with most of the time, this cancer begins at the hierarchy as it is, there are few traditional clerical to begin with and they are more of a target of disdain from many of these same Bishops. I wouldn't waste my time on these modernists. Fortunately, Benedict issued "motu proprio" and the Summorum Pontificum with the TLM and things are beginning to turn around slowly, hopefully as more of the old hippies from VII begin to die off these abuses will begin to fade away as well. Until that time, I will avoid Norvus Ordo with their altar girls and female "Eucharistic ministers" as much as possible.

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« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2012, 09:45:44 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.
This is just a question: What do you think of the following Catholic Mass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_nqtp3VrU
Everyone seems to be having such a good time?
I think that abomination is neither "catholic" nor a Mass.

I think they must've passed out some pretty good drugs at the door of whatever you want to call that place.

Just don't call it a Church.
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« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2012, 09:52:06 PM »

I'm getting tired of seeing the same videos of that one clown mass and that one puppet mass over and over.
OK. Here's a photo of a a “Hardrock-Mass” in the Cathedral of Tarragona (Spain) on the 8th of April 2012. (scroll down).
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2012/07/reason-12894-for-summorum-pontificum/
More modernist garbage.

What is this now, some kind of "catholic" Christian rock?

Why don't these kooks just leave the Church and convert to evangelical Protestantism already?

Just more fruits ( and I do mean "fruits")of VII.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2012, 10:43:46 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.
This is just a question: What do you think of the following Catholic Mass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_nqtp3VrU
Everyone seems to be having such a good time?
I think that abomination is neither "catholic" nor a Mass.

I think they must've passed out some pretty good drugs at the door of whatever you want to call that place.

Just don't call it a Church.
Bishop Remi J. de Roo, who said the Mass, is a  a “Pilgrim of the Second Vatican Council” and in good standing with the Roman Catholic Church. He is not the only one to make use of female lectors. At least, the female lector at this Mass was modestly dressed.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 10:46:32 PM by stanley123 » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2012, 06:11:34 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?

I've been to one.
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« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2012, 06:50:32 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?

I've been to one.
Did you stay around or did you leave?
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« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2012, 01:27:04 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?

I've been to one.
Did you stay around or did you leave?

Stuck around. I was going with my family to a RC Easter Vigil.
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« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2012, 01:58:39 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?

I've been to one.
Did you stay around or did you leave?

Stuck around. I was going with my family to a RC Easter Vigil.
Ah I see. You were stuck in a tough situation. If I had been present at such a thing and was able to I would have left such sacrilege behind. Depending on the severity of the abuses (which it sounds like it was severe) it is quite likely it that it was not even a Mass at all.
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« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2012, 02:23:35 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?

I've been to one.
Did you stay around or did you leave?

Stuck around. I was going with my family to a RC Easter Vigil.
Ah I see. You were stuck in a tough situation. If I had been present at such a thing and was able to I would have left such sacrilege behind. Depending on the severity of the abuses (which it sounds like it was severe) it is quite likely it that it was not even a Mass at all.

+1

If it was indeed a "clown mass" (or any Mass with obvious, severe abuses taking place) I, too, would have left--immediately.  And then I would have contacted the bishop at the earliest opportunity.
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« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2012, 02:59:05 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?

I've been to one.
Did you stay around or did you leave?

Stuck around. I was going with my family to a RC Easter Vigil.
Ah I see. You were stuck in a tough situation. If I had been present at such a thing and was able to I would have left such sacrilege behind. Depending on the severity of the abuses (which it sounds like it was severe) it is quite likely it that it was not even a Mass at all.

I don't remember exactly what went through my head at the moment - something like I'm here for my family, not myself, and as a former/non-practicing Catholic it isn't really my place to make a statement of some kind. My mother thought about complaining but my father convinced her not to. Wouldn't want her to get too influenced by my overly stringent and reactionary religious beliefs.  angel

I don't know if it would be considered an invalid mass from a RC perspective. Nothing was done with the Eucharistic prayer (besides the usual problems with Eucharistic ministers). It was mostly the liturgy of the Word - dramatizing and acting out the readings in costume (changing the actual text of the Bible in the process), doing this weird liturgical dance led by a woman dressed up in some sort of pseudo-clerical garb, theatrical sound effects, etc.
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« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2012, 08:40:10 PM »

If it was indeed a "clown mass" (or any Mass with obvious, severe abuses taking place) I, too, would have left--immediately.  And then I would have contacted the bishop at the earliest opportunity.
But what if the Mass was said by a Roman Catholic bishop, which of course was the case for the "puppet Mass".  Everybody knows about this Mass, which has been all over the internet for some time,  and AFAIK nothing was done about it. So wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that this Mass was just fine as far as the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic authorities are concerned? Everyone was having such a good time, and apparently, as far as the Catholic authorities in charge of liturgy are concerned,  there is nothing wrong with that in this case?
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« Reply #59 on: August 01, 2012, 12:09:13 AM »

If it was indeed a "clown mass" (or any Mass with obvious, severe abuses taking place) I, too, would have left--immediately.  And then I would have contacted the bishop at the earliest opportunity.
But what if the Mass was said by a Roman Catholic bishop, which of course was the case for the "puppet Mass".  Everybody knows about this Mass, which has been all over the internet for some time,  and AFAIK nothing was done about it. So wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that this Mass was just fine as far as the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic authorities are concerned? Everyone was having such a good time, and apparently, as far as the Catholic authorities in charge of liturgy are concerned,  there is nothing wrong with that in this case?

Well at least it wasn't a Seusscharist.
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« Reply #60 on: August 01, 2012, 01:59:58 PM »

If it was indeed a "clown mass" (or any Mass with obvious, severe abuses taking place) I, too, would have left--immediately.  And then I would have contacted the bishop at the earliest opportunity.
But what if the Mass was said by a Roman Catholic bishop, which of course was the case for the "puppet Mass".  Everybody knows about this Mass, which has been all over the internet for some time,  and AFAIK nothing was done about it. So wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that this Mass was just fine as far as the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic authorities are concerned? Everyone was having such a good time, and apparently, as far as the Catholic authorities in charge of liturgy are concerned,  there is nothing wrong with that in this case?
This would be an instance when contacting Rome would be warranted.
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« Reply #61 on: August 01, 2012, 02:32:25 PM »

If it was indeed a "clown mass" (or any Mass with obvious, severe abuses taking place) I, too, would have left--immediately.  And then I would have contacted the bishop at the earliest opportunity.
But what if the Mass was said by a Roman Catholic bishop, which of course was the case for the "puppet Mass".  Everybody knows about this Mass, which has been all over the internet for some time,  and AFAIK nothing was done about it. So wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that this Mass was just fine as far as the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic authorities are concerned? Everyone was having such a good time, and apparently, as far as the Catholic authorities in charge of liturgy are concerned,  there is nothing wrong with that in this case?
This would be an instance when contacting Rome would be warranted.
I have seen objections from sedevacantists, but I have not heard about any objections from Rome concerning this Mass.
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« Reply #62 on: August 01, 2012, 03:49:59 PM »

If it was indeed a "clown mass" (or any Mass with obvious, severe abuses taking place) I, too, would have left--immediately.  And then I would have contacted the bishop at the earliest opportunity.
But what if the Mass was said by a Roman Catholic bishop, which of course was the case for the "puppet Mass".  Everybody knows about this Mass, which has been all over the internet for some time,  and AFAIK nothing was done about it. So wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that this Mass was just fine as far as the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic authorities are concerned? Everyone was having such a good time, and apparently, as far as the Catholic authorities in charge of liturgy are concerned,  there is nothing wrong with that in this case?
This would be an instance when contacting Rome would be warranted.
I have seen objections from sedevacantists, but I have not heard about any objections from Rome concerning this Mass.

Doesn't mean there weren't objections from Rome, though. 
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« Reply #63 on: August 01, 2012, 04:01:35 PM »

If it was indeed a "clown mass" (or any Mass with obvious, severe abuses taking place) I, too, would have left--immediately.  And then I would have contacted the bishop at the earliest opportunity.
But what if the Mass was said by a Roman Catholic bishop, which of course was the case for the "puppet Mass".  Everybody knows about this Mass, which has been all over the internet for some time,  and AFAIK nothing was done about it. So wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that this Mass was just fine as far as the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic authorities are concerned? Everyone was having such a good time, and apparently, as far as the Catholic authorities in charge of liturgy are concerned,  there is nothing wrong with that in this case?
This would be an instance when contacting Rome would be warranted.
I have seen objections from sedevacantists, but I have not heard about any objections from Rome concerning this Mass.

Doesn't mean there weren't objections from Rome, though. 

People who p and m that Rome is a policeman also p and m when Rome does not act like a policeman.

It is par for this course.

M.
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« Reply #64 on: August 01, 2012, 07:38:42 PM »

If it was indeed a "clown mass" (or any Mass with obvious, severe abuses taking place) I, too, would have left--immediately.  And then I would have contacted the bishop at the earliest opportunity.
But what if the Mass was said by a Roman Catholic bishop, which of course was the case for the "puppet Mass".  Everybody knows about this Mass, which has been all over the internet for some time,  and AFAIK nothing was done about it. So wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that this Mass was just fine as far as the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic authorities are concerned? Everyone was having such a good time, and apparently, as far as the Catholic authorities in charge of liturgy are concerned,  there is nothing wrong with that in this case?
This would be an instance when contacting Rome would be warranted.
I have seen objections from sedevacantists, but I have not heard about any objections from Rome concerning this Mass.

Doesn't mean there weren't objections from Rome, though. 
Doesn't mean that there were objections,  either.
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« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2012, 08:06:24 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.
This is just a question: What do you think of the following Catholic Mass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_nqtp3VrU
Everyone seems to be having such a good time?

Looks like someone took some Mardi Gras parade puppets and brought them into Mass..  I've also never seen so many older midwest white folks digging interpretative dance, its really more of A Different World kind of thing Wink

About any other criticisms of this video, well, its just too easy.  Can we get back to the more readily discussable Female Eucharistic Ministers? So its just a Papal Infallibility thing so that folks can explain away any conflict with Tradition, or with the Scriptures, or with the Fathers? 

I'm glad to see many of the Catholics here are a bit upset about it.  I suggest we pray about it, converting the passions of our anger to the Passion of Christ, and let God sort out His own.  We couldn't change the Church one way or the other if we wanted to, be it a digression or a restoration, and so that being said, we can only pray for the Grace of God to resonate in the hearts of parish by parish, priest by priest, person by person, until the Kingdom is brought into the world stemming from the unified heart of the Body of Christ.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #66 on: August 02, 2012, 10:10:41 AM »

If it was indeed a "clown mass" (or any Mass with obvious, severe abuses taking place) I, too, would have left--immediately.  And then I would have contacted the bishop at the earliest opportunity.
But what if the Mass was said by a Roman Catholic bishop, which of course was the case for the "puppet Mass".  Everybody knows about this Mass, which has been all over the internet for some time,  and AFAIK nothing was done about it. So wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that this Mass was just fine as far as the Catholic hierarchy and Catholic authorities are concerned? Everyone was having such a good time, and apparently, as far as the Catholic authorities in charge of liturgy are concerned,  there is nothing wrong with that in this case?
This would be an instance when contacting Rome would be warranted.
I have seen objections from sedevacantists, but I have not heard about any objections from Rome concerning this Mass.

Doesn't mean there weren't objections from Rome, though. 
Doesn't mean that there were objections,  either.

So...I guess it doesn't mean anything, then.
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« Reply #67 on: August 02, 2012, 10:14:49 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.
This is just a question: What do you think of the following Catholic Mass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_nqtp3VrU
Everyone seems to be having such a good time?

Looks like someone took some Mardi Gras parade puppets and brought them into Mass..  I've also never seen so many older midwest white folks digging interpretative dance, its really more of A Different World kind of thing Wink

About any other criticisms of this video, well, its just too easy.  Can we get back to the more readily discussable Female Eucharistic Ministers? So its just a Papal Infallibility thing so that folks can explain away any conflict with Tradition, or with the Scriptures, or with the Fathers? 

I'm glad to see many of the Catholics here are a bit upset about it.  I suggest we pray about it, converting the passions of our anger to the Passion of Christ, and let God sort out His own.  We couldn't change the Church one way or the other if we wanted to, be it a digression or a restoration, and so that being said, we can only pray for the Grace of God to resonate in the hearts of parish by parish, priest by priest, person by person, until the Kingdom is brought into the world stemming from the unified heart of the Body of Christ.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
stay blessed,
habte selassie


From Reply #5 above: Their existence and function is approved and "regulated" (well...) by Rome.  See http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html

This is not a "Papal Infallibility thing".  Not even close. 
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