Shooting at the premiere of Dark Knight Rises..

[Achronos]

Just woke up to the news 12 people dead and many wounded in an Aurora, CO. None of my friends involved, thank God. However I did have one friend who was supposed to go but didn't, he's in shock right now.

Truly disgusting stuff and that dude who shot up the place looks exactly how I imagined Satan to look.

Colorado is just insane, now do you see why I want out of this state? Bring on the National Guard to public goings.

[orthonorm]

This franchise is blessed.

A beloved actor dies during the run of the second installment.

A buncha people get shot during a record breaking opening of the third. I am waiting for a post 9/11ish announcement about how every American must see this film, so the terrorists don't win.

Color me cynical.

Sorry to hear about your friend.

Surprised this wasn't posted about earlier.

[HabteSelassie]

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

This franchise is blessed.

A beloved actor dies during the run of the second installment.

A buncha people get shot during a record breaking opening of the third. I am waiting for a post 9/11ish announcement about how every American must see this film, so the terrorists don't win.

Color me cynical.

Sorry to hear about your friend.

Surprised this wasn't posted about earlier.

America keeps sacrificing her children to Molech

Lord have His Mercy!!

stay blessed,
habte selassie

[Achronos]

The irony is that TDKR I hear is a very violent film even compared to the other two in Nolan's trilogy.

And yeah he had to work at 6AM so that's why he didn't go. I couldn't imagine if I lost him as a friend.

[Achronos]

"This is not only an act of extreme violence, it is also an act of depravity. It is beyond the power of words to fully express our sorrow this morning. Our prayers and condolences go first to the families of those killed, and we share the grief of everyone affected by this senseless event. We appreciate the swift work by local, state and federal law enforcement. Coloradans have a remarkable ability to support one another in times of crisis. This one of those times." - Gov. Hickenlooper. I like him.

EDIT: OMG he was literally head to toe with bulletproof gear and had a gas mask as well. That is insanity. People probably thought he was wearing a costume.

[Michał Kalina]

Why I am not surprised?

http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/StatePatrol-Main/CBON/1251594549010

[Achronos]

Seriously, gun control at a time like this?

[genesisone]

It's rather sad that this topic is followed right now by this topic Show off your guns!.

Apparently not a long way from "show off your guns" to "shoot off your guns". And that's intended to be serious not humourous. Both the glorification of guns and their abuse are deplorable.

BTW, there was a similarly sad shooting at a "get-to-know-your-neighbour" block party in Toronto this week as well.

[Achronos]

WTF??

[vamrat]

Seriously, gun control at a time like this?

Some people have no respect for the dead, only for their own urges.

May God have mercy on those killed by that mad man.

I hope your friend recovers, Achronos.

[Michał Kalina]

Seriously, gun control at a time like this?

What were they killed with? A shovel?

[orthonorm]

Seriously, gun control at a time like this?

Some people have no respect for the dead, only for their own urges.

May God have mercy on those killed by that mad man.

I hope your friend recovers, Achronos.

This is exactly the time to expose ideology.

[Achronos]

Ok but aren't those laws just the same as everywhere in the country? I guess I'm missing it here.

[Kerdy]

Seriously, gun control at a time like this?

Some people have no respect for the dead, only for their own urges.

May God have mercy on those killed by that mad man.

I hope your friend recovers, Achronos.

+1
Lord Have Mercy!

[vamrat]

Seriously, gun control at a time like this?

Some people have no respect for the dead, only for their own urges.

May God have mercy on those killed by that mad man.

I hope your friend recovers, Achronos.

This is exactly the time to expose ideology.

But there are other threads discussing gun laws.  Perhaps Michal could start one in politics where we could discuss gun laws around the world and their causes and effects, that way both this tragedy and a thread devoted to showing pictures for those interested could be free from politics?  If he promised to keep the discussion non-sexual I would be more than willing to keep my responses in a similar vein.

[Achronos]

I just made the threa in Politics so we can discuss it there.

[orthonorm]

Seriously, gun control at a time like this?

Some people have no respect for the dead, only for their own urges.

May God have mercy on those killed by that mad man.

I hope your friend recovers, Achronos.

This is exactly the time to expose ideology.

But there are other threads discussing gun laws.  Perhaps Michal could start one in politics where we could discuss gun laws around the world and their causes and effects, that way both this tragedy and a thread devoted to showing pictures for those interested could be free from politics?  If he promised to keep the discussion non-sexual I would be more than willing to keep my responses in a similar vein.

There is more than gun laws at work here.

[Achronos]

That people have an urge to kill?

[Kerdy]

Since this not in a prayer forum I feel it not too far out of bounds to ask if our anti-guns friends read about the 71 year old who defended an entire cafe with his weapon, and no one died.

The fellow who killed these innocent people is severely disturbed.  He would have found a way without guns as we have seen in the past, so blaming this on lack of gun control is ridiculous.  Had someone inside been carrying they may have been able to save some lives, as did the 71 year old.

[88Devin12]

Since this not in a prayer forum I feel it not too far out of bounds to ask if our anti-guns friends read about the 71 year old who defended an entire cafe with his weapon, and no one died.

The fellow who killed these innocent people is severely disturbed.  He would have found a way without guns as we have seen in the past, so blaming this on lack of gun control is ridiculous.  Had someone inside been carrying they may have been able to save some lives, as did the 71 year old.

Yes... Having a weapon "easily accessible" only really becomes a problem with crimes of opportunity. In something clearly premeditated like this or like Columbine and Virginia Tech, the perpetrator is going to get a firearm no matter what.

If a couple is having an argument and one takes a pistol and shoots the other in anger (not in self-defense) you could argue that was an issue with "gun control", because the gun was there and was able to be used as a tool, but at the same time, that person could have grabbed a heavy object and done the same thing.

This is an issue of pre-meditation, and the firearm was (sadly) a tool he used to commit it. If we blame this on gun control, we could easily blame part of it on his easy access to gasoline since he threw a can in which exploded prior to opening fire. Or blame part of it on his ability to easily gain access to the wide variety of materials he could use to make the bombs and booby-trap his home.

Think of it like drugs... An addict starts using hardcore drugs. Those are banned and cracked down on and his supply is cut off. So the addict starts abusing over-the-counter medication. The medication is regulated and he switches to paint fumes... Those are regulated and controlled so he moves to canned air... A bittering agent is added to canned air and therefore he switches to something else.
While it isn't a direct analogy, the point is that someone who wants to do harm (to themselves or to others), they are going to find a way to do it and tools to do it with.

This cannot be blamed on video games, gun control or anything else. This is a man that simply needed serious help and should have been watched much more closely.

[vamrat]

I just made the threa in Politics so we can discuss it there.

Thanks

[Michał Kalina]

He would have found a way without guns

With a teaspoon or a pencil...

Had someone inside been carrying they may have been able to save some lives, as did the 71 year old.

But no one did despite the fact everyone can buy a gun in Colorado.

I wonder why I haven't ever heard about such things in Poland and in the USA they happen every two months. Any ideas?

[Νεκτάριος]

I wonder why I haven't ever heard about such things in Poland and in the USA they happen every two months. Any ideas?

Poland is a communist country under martial law.  That's why.  If you had freedom like the Americans have...

[Kerdy]

He would have found a way without guns

With a teaspoon or a pencil...

Had someone inside been carrying they may have been able to save some lives, as did the 71 year old.

But no one did despite the fact everyone can buy a gun in Colorado.

I wonder why I haven't ever heard about such things in Poland and in the USA they happen every two months. Any ideas?

Teaspoon or pencil?  Give a few moments while I research which one Tim McVey or Eric Rudolph used.  Or the group of Satan worshipping teens decided to use a few years back in North Carolina we found under an old ladies propane tank next to her house.  All I know is its a good thing none of them had guns.  Someone may have gotten hurt.

[88Devin12]

He would have found a way without guns

With a teaspoon or a pencil...

Had someone inside been carrying they may have been able to save some lives, as did the 71 year old.

But no one did despite the fact everyone can buy a gun in Colorado.

I wonder why I haven't ever heard about such things in Poland and in the USA they happen every two months. Any ideas?

We are about 8 times larger and have a much higher crime rate. We are an incredibly individualistic and isolated nation and so even if you live next to a guy like this, you won't probably know it.

Drugs are illegal in our country and yet the addicts and dealers ALWAYS find the drugs and use/sell them. Regulating something doesn't mean the crime is going to end. The criminals are going to be criminals and are going to get access to illegal weapons no matter how many regulations are there.

As for why no one had a gun in the theater, that is probably because they couldn't because of the regulations that restrict bringing firearms into the building. Despite our ability to purchase firearms, that doesn't mean if we get a license to carry that we can carry them anywhere.

My high school (after I graduated) had put in metal detectors in at the doors. That keeps a student from sneaking something in to use later, but it won't stop a student from walking in and opening fire.

About 80% of inmates who committed crimes got their firearms through illegal means.

[Shanghaiski]

Ok but aren't those laws just the same as everywhere in the country? I guess I'm missing it here.

It doesn't matter. Every time someone shoots someone else with a gun, we get the argument that guns are bad and should be banned.

[Shanghaiski]

He would have found a way without guns

With a teaspoon or a pencil...

Had someone inside been carrying they may have been able to save some lives, as did the 71 year old.

But no one did despite the fact everyone can buy a gun in Colorado.

I wonder why I haven't ever heard about such things in Poland and in the USA they happen every two months. Any ideas?

Poland has had plenty of mass slaughters. Sheesh.

[Michał Kalina]

We are about 8 times larger and have a much higher crime rate.

Will you try to guess, why?

It doesn't matter. Every time someone shoots someone else with a gun, we get the argument that guns are bad and should be banned.

Thanks God for the right to carry a gun. It's so important for you that 12 people have recently died to defend it.

Poland has had plenty of mass slaughters. Sheesh.

[Kerdy]

We are about 8 times larger and have a much higher crime rate.

Will you try to guess, why?

It doesn't matter. Every time someone shoots someone else with a gun, we get the argument that guns are bad and should be banned.

Thanks God for the right to carry a gun. It's so important for you that 12 people have recently died to defend it.

Poland has had plenty of mass slaughters. Sheesh.

Would you be so bold as to say Poland does not experience murder by way of gun?  I just looked at some statistics which reveal the opposite.

[Shanghaiski]

We are about 8 times larger and have a much higher crime rate.

Will you try to guess, why?

It doesn't matter. Every time someone shoots someone else with a gun, we get the argument that guns are bad and should be banned.

Thanks God for the right to carry a gun. It's so important for you that 12 people have recently died to defend it.

Poland has had plenty of mass slaughters. Sheesh.

I forget. No one was ever killed in Poland. No wars were fought there. No atrocities committed. It was always a peaceful, idyllic place. And it always existed, just that in the 19th century it was assumed into heaven.

[88Devin12]

We are about 8 times larger and have a much higher crime rate.

Will you try to guess, why?

It doesn't matter. Every time someone shoots someone else with a gun, we get the argument that guns are bad and should be banned.

Thanks God for the right to carry a gun. It's so important for you that 12 people have recently died to defend it.

Poland has had plenty of mass slaughters. Sheesh.

Our crime rate isn't related to the legal right to carry weapons. 80% of criminals in prison obtained firearms through illegal means. Most crimes are assault, with robbery being next, rape being third and murder being fourth. The causes for crime in the United States are varied but I would argue that the primary cause is socioeconomic conditions, societal conditions and the psychological conditions of criminals. I think we  also can include drugs as a huge cause for crime in the United States. Most criminals are poor, are from poor areas, are ethnic minorities and live and grow up in a culture of poverty. Many are members of gangs as well...

Also keep in mind, this was done just 30 miles away from Columbine High School. This man clearly was probably (unfortunately and sadly) inspired by the Columbine shootings.

[Michał Kalina]

Would you be so bold as to say Poland does not experience murder by way of gun?  I just looked at some statistics which reveal the opposite.

I say that in the modern history there haven't been any guy who shot a dozen of people in a public place just for nothing.

80% of criminals in prison obtained firearms through illegal means.

Why on earth anyone would obtain a gun trough illegal means if he can buy one in a supermarket?

[88Devin12]

Sadly relevant, OCN's weekly podcast's subject this week was on Violence:
http://www.myocn.net/index.php/201206294189/Come-Receive-the-Light/Violence-July-2012.html

[88Devin12]

Would you be so bold as to say Poland does not experience murder by way of gun?  I just looked at some statistics which reveal the opposite.

I say that in the modern history there haven't been any guy who shot a dozen of people in a public place just for nothing.

80% of criminals in prison obtained firearms through illegal means.

Why on earth anyone would obtain a gun trough illegal means if he can buy one in a supermarket?

You cannot legally buy a firearm if you have a criminal record, that is one thing... In order to get a firearm, you have to have a full background check by law. The criminals who want to commit crimes with firearms don't buy them from legitimate sources because they cannot buy them from those places. Those stores also must be regularly inspected by the state/federal government.

[Michał Kalina]

You cannot legally buy a firearm if you have a criminal record, that is one thing... In order to get a firearm, you have to have a full background check by law. The criminals who want to commit crimes with firearms don't buy them from legitimate sources because they cannot buy them from those places.

Or ask their relatives or friends to buy one for them...

[Kerdy]

Just the one survey I looked at had 111 murders by gun in Poland.  

There are a variety of reasons to get a gun illegally.  Look at the Yakuza in Japan.  Gun laws only work for those who abide by the law.  Tracing it back to the criminal could be difficult, you are restricted from buying them, cheap drop guns, etc.

As you have been told before, you can't buy guns at the supermarket, at least not in America.  we must have different ideas what a supermarket is.

[Kerdy]

You cannot legally buy a firearm if you have a criminal record, that is one thing... In order to get a firearm, you have to have a full background check by law. The criminals who want to commit crimes with firearms don't buy them from legitimate sources because they cannot buy them from those places.

Or ask their relatives or friends to buy one for them...

Which must be disclosed or is a felony crime.

[88Devin12]

You cannot legally buy a firearm if you have a criminal record, that is one thing... In order to get a firearm, you have to have a full background check by law. The criminals who want to commit crimes with firearms don't buy them from legitimate sources because they cannot buy them from those places.

Or ask their relatives or friends to buy one for them...

As I said though, most of these people live in a culture of poverty. Sadly, many of the people committing violent crimes only have friends who also have criminal records. Obviously that isn't the case for all of them. You have to understand who these people are and the places where they grow up.

[Michał Kalina]

You cannot legally buy a firearm if you have a criminal record, that is one thing... In order to get a firearm, you have to have a full background check by law. The criminals who want to commit crimes with firearms don't buy them from legitimate sources because they cannot buy them from those places.

Or ask their relatives or friends to buy one for them...

Which must be disclosed or is a felony crime.

I I wanted to buy a gun illegally I would have to make more effort that ask my sister do do it.

[Kerdy]

You cannot legally buy a firearm if you have a criminal record, that is one thing... In order to get a firearm, you have to have a full background check by law. The criminals who want to commit crimes with firearms don't buy them from legitimate sources because they cannot buy them from those places.

Or ask their relatives or friends to buy one for them...

Which must be disclosed or is a felony crime.

I I wanted to buy a gun illegally I would have to make more effort that ask my sister do do it.

Unless you are trying to get her arrested or unless she discloses she is buying for you, which still requires a criminal history check on you, and then would be legal if approved.

[Shanghaiski]

If lax gun laws were to blame for shootings like this, there would be many more of them. We (and the rest of the world) have the problems we have not because of laws, but because of moral corruption, which the moral superiority of non-Americans and ex-pats does not negate.

[Shanghaiski]

And by moral corruption, I do not just mean immorality, but the fabric of society and societal issues.

[Νεκτάριος]

If lax gun laws were to blame for shootings like this, there would be many more of them. We (and the rest of the world) have the problems we have not because of laws, but because of moral corruption, which the moral superiority of non-Americans and ex-pats does not negate.

At the very least the wide availability of guns and a culture that worships guns are contributing factors to a serious problem.  In this and other cases mental illness was likely a factor.  In other cases socio-economic issues are at the fore.  But to pretend that the American gun culture has nothing to do with the high rate of violent crime in the US seems a bit far fetched.  The low prices and 24 hour availability of vodka are also not contributing factors to alcohol abuse in Ukraine. 

[Shanghaiski]

If lax gun laws were to blame for shootings like this, there would be many more of them. We (and the rest of the world) have the problems we have not because of laws, but because of moral corruption, which the moral superiority of non-Americans and ex-pats does not negate.

At the very least the wide availability of guns and a culture that worships guns are contributing factors to a serious problem.  In this and other cases mental illness was likely a factor.  In other cases socio-economic issues are at the fore.  But to pretend that the American gun culture has nothing to do with the high rate of violent crime in the US seems a bit far fetched.  The low prices and 24 hour availability of vodka are also not contributing factors to alcohol abuse in Ukraine. 

But the mass-shooting is quite different than the daily murders with guns by gangs of one sort or another. If you look at the elements of the crime, you will find few, if any, commonalities other than the use of a firearm. You cannot fix either, however, without addressing the underlying problems, both of which are also different.

Also, I think the accusation that America worships guns is lame and highly inaccurate.

[Michał Kalina]

Also, I think the accusation that America worships guns is lame and highly inaccurate.

LOL

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OrthodoxChristianity.net > Moderated Forums > Free-For-All > Non-Religious Topics (Moderator: Pravoslavbob) > Topic: Shooting at the premiere of Dark Knight Rises..