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LBK
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« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2012, 11:32:55 PM » |
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and i thought to myself, 'why don't i make a vow, so that i will enter a monastery', and by doing so, i will have nothing stop me from going, for i have made a vow. Forgive the bluntness, but this way of thinking is dangerous. It is putting your will above God's will, the complete antithesis of monastic humility and forbearance. What if something happened, and you were unable to enter monastic life? |
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isaelie
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« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2012, 11:34:54 PM » |
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And i think this is what the previous posters wanted to know, and i withheld it
Lord have mercy!
The Lord leads me in the path of righteousness, How great is our Lord!
LBK, i know! You are right! What is wrong with me today! Truly, this is from the evil one
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Hiwot
Christ is Risen!
OC.net guru
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Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
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Job 19:25-27
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« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2012, 11:45:59 PM » |
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And i think this is what the previous posters wanted to know, and i withheld it
Lord have mercy!
The Lord leads me in the path of righteousness, How great is our Lord!
LBK, i know! You are right! What is wrong with me today! Truly, this is from the evil one
My brother do not be too distressed, may the Lord shelter all of us, but we all face these sorts of attacks, the important thing is to do as you just have done, by the grace of God,sincere humility is our best defense. may the prayers of the Saints be with us, and May the Lord continue to guide you in the Way. remember this sinner in your prayers. |
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To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!
Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2012, 12:20:03 AM » |
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To grow the hair and beard is fine if you are doing it for personal preference or even as an outward sign of your personal spiritual commitment. However, I think the idea of taking any sort of Nazarite vow or any other vow in an individualistic manner that is not ordained by the Church is a dangerous concept. The Bahitawi monks of Ethiopia essentially live and dress in Nazarite custom, but I am pretty sure their vows are consecrated by the Church.
Just my thoughts. Others can correct me if I'm wrong.
Selam
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"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
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JamesR
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« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2012, 12:29:48 AM » |
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St. Paul condemned it if I remember correctly but don't monastics always have long hair with very stylish pony-tails?
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You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something. James, you have problemz. |
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2012, 12:38:55 AM » |
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St. Paul condemned it if I remember correctly but don't monastics always have long hair with very stylish pony-tails?
Fashions change with time. I think the Byzantines were scandalized by the slavs because their men wore pants. |
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
"You are philosophical innovators. As for me, I follow the Fathers." -Every heresiarch ever |
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Gorazd
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« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2012, 01:26:14 AM » |
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From what I understand of Orthodoxy in Russia, it's generally only clergy that grow beards and maintain long hair, and seminarians specifically maintain short hair and are clean shaven, lest they come across as presumptuous.
That is a practice going back to Tsar Peter "the Great", not an Orthodox tradition. |
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Alpo
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« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2012, 08:47:06 AM » |
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What's with the hair and beard threads on OC.net? The only people I've met who have problem with men's long hair have been Pentecostals and even among them it's pretty rare nowadays. No yiayia have given me bad looks despite my hair but these threads on OC.net seem to pop out periodically.
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Pan Michał
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Jurisdiction: The Polish Autocephalous Orthodox Church
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« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2012, 08:55:06 AM » |
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What's with the hair and beard threads on OC.net? The only people I've met who have problem with men's long hair have been Pentecostals and even among them it's pretty rare nowadays. No yiayia have given me bad looks despite my hair but these threads on OC.net seem to pop out periodically.
  Some people just see correlation. |
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« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 08:55:44 AM by Pan Michał »
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GabrieltheCelt
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« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2013, 03:37:52 PM » |
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St. Paul condemned it if I remember correctly but don't monastics always have long hair with very stylish pony-tails?
Fashions change with time. True. But Christians aren't supposed to be dictated by 'fashion'. I think JamesR has a point that I would like clarified (I seem to recall a thread on this but couldn't find it.) Anyway, here's the verse: 1 Corinthians 11:14 "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" KJV How does the Church reconcile its practice in view of this verse? |
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"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America." ~Scots-Irish saying
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William
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« Reply #55 on: June 11, 2013, 04:36:00 PM » |
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St. Paul condemned it if I remember correctly but don't monastics always have long hair with very stylish pony-tails?
Fashions change with time. True. But Christians aren't supposed to be dictated by 'fashion'. I think JamesR has a point that I would like clarified (I seem to recall a thread on this but couldn't find it.) Anyway, here's the verse: 1 Corinthians 11:14 "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" KJV How does the Church reconcile its practice in view of this verse? Search "monkeytails" in the searchbar. |
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Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #56 on: June 11, 2013, 05:31:27 PM » |
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I long for the days when I could grow long hair. Not that I would grow it long at present. But still... I just wish I had that option. As for St. Paul... well isn't it obvious? For those who don't believe in biblical infallibility it is...  |
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LBK
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« Reply #57 on: June 11, 2013, 07:13:06 PM » |
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St. Paul condemned it if I remember correctly but don't monastics always have long hair with very stylish pony-tails?
Fashions change with time. True. But Christians aren't supposed to be dictated by 'fashion'. I think JamesR has a point that I would like clarified (I seem to recall a thread on this but couldn't find it.) Anyway, here's the verse: 1 Corinthians 11:14 "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" KJV How does the Church reconcile its practice in view of this verse? Search "monkeytails" in the searchbar. From that thread: Here is the verse from Corinthians in the original Greek:
14 ἢ οὐδὲ αὐτὴ ἡ φύσις διδάσκει ὑμᾶς ὅτι ἀνὴρ μὲν ἐὰν κομᾷ, ἀτιμία αὐτῷ ἐστι,
The bolded word koma is a cognate of a word which, even in modern Greek, means to cut and style hair. The words kommotis and kommotria are the masculine and feminine forms of hairdresser, i.e. one who styles and beautifies hair.
It is therefore clear that plain, long hair is perfectly acceptable for men, according to St Paul, as, indeed it was for Christ. |
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« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 07:14:45 PM by LBK »
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #58 on: June 11, 2013, 07:20:20 PM » |
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From that thread:
Here is the verse from Corinthians in the original Greek:
14 ἢ οὐδὲ αὐτὴ ἡ φύσις διδάσκει ὑμᾶς ὅτι ἀνὴρ μὲν ἐὰν κομᾷ, ἀτιμία αὐτῷ ἐστι,
The bolded word koma is a cognate of a word which, even in modern Greek, means to cut and style hair. The words kommotis and kommotria are the masculine and feminine forms of hairdresser, i.e. one who styles and beautifies hair.
It is therefore clear that plain, long hair is perfectly acceptable for men, according to St Paul, as, indeed it was for Christ.
So I'm wrong? I hate when that happens...  |
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Sinful Hypocrite
Everyday I am critical of others. Every day I make similar mistakes. Every day I am a hypocrite.
OC.net guru
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Jurisdiction: "The Orthodox Church" by Bishop Kallistos Ware: "We know where the Church is but we cannot be sure where it is not; and so we must refrain from passing judgment on non-Orthodox Christians."
Posts: 1,607
Great googly moogly!
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« Reply #59 on: June 11, 2013, 07:43:46 PM » |
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From what I understand of Orthodoxy in Russia, it's generally only clergy that grow beards and maintain long hair, and seminarians specifically maintain short hair and are clean shaven, lest they come across as presumptuous.
As far as other culturally Orthodox lands are concerned...I have no idea.
Theology has nothing to do with Hair or any body parts, this issue is only valid as a cultural and social topic. I have long hair, and when getting ready to take my mother to Greece in 1999, I asked her if I should cut it short, so I would "fit in" with our cousins there whom we had never met. My mother shocked me when she said no, leave it long, just get it styled as I always did. When we had met some of our relatives after looking awhile, they wanted to take us to see the other first cousins, so we went to my moms first cousin on her mothers side, Christo, and his wife , they have a son who is Bishop Dorotheos , head of Syros area Islands whom they are very proud of, but as we sat with them Christo did not say much and my Mom had the feeling he did not like us, when we were leaving though, he started to cry uncontrollably, later my Mom told me she did not understand how he acted. The next day our Cousin Elias who had taken us the night before to Christos house said we were going there again right away, my mom said to him she did not think he liked us , as he said little and seemed to be bothered by us. Elias said we must go, that we did not understand the problem was not us but something else entirely. So we went back and had a very pleasant evening with Christo and his lovely wife Katarina that night. The point of this story is that in addition to their son who is the Bishop of the Islands, They have another estranged son named Niko, who had been living in Athens since he and his father had an argument about his HAIR length. When his dad Christo saw me with long hair the first night, he was struck that it was the hand of God, telling him he was foolish to ignore his son over his hair. The next day, unknown to us, he had talked to his son for the first time in years , and asked him to come home. His son Niko came home later that year and lived at home again, His dad lived only another two years. So it's true, the Lord works in mysterious ways. |
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The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.
"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2013, 12:05:12 AM » |
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“Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.” [I Corinthians 11:13-16] Here is the 14th verse from First Corinthians in the original Greek: “ ἢ οὐδὲ αὐτὴ ἡ φύσις διδάσκει ὑμᾶς ὅτι ἀνὴρ μὲν ἐὰν κομᾷ, ἀτιμία αὐτῷ ἐστι,” The bolded word “koma” is a cognate of a word which means “to cut and style hair.” The words “kommotis” and “kommotria” are the masculine and feminine forms of “hairdresser,” i.e. one who styles and beautifies hair. So the admonition of St. Paul is not against the natural order (God forbid!), but rather against the unnatural practice of adorning and styling a man’s hair in the fashion of a woman. And the context of First Corinthians clearly indicates that the apostle’s teaching is simply that men should look like men and women should look like women. The issue is not the length of a man’s hair, but rather the style and appearance of his hair. A man should not be confused for a woman, and a woman should not be confused for a man. Therefore it is clear, according to St. Paul, that long, natural, uncoiffured hair is perfectly acceptable for men, as indeed it was for Samson, St. John the Baptist, and most likely even for Christ Himself.  (Thanks to GabrieltheCelt and LBK for the Greek translation.) Selam
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"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
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orthonorm
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« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2013, 12:08:59 AM » |
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Alpo,
If you are referring to any of my comments about your hair, they were purely aesthetic judgements. Cut your hair and gain 20 pounds.
Long hair on most guys is horrible. Period.
Gebre, in the many photos of himself he has shared, is a clear exception.
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Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
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Tamara
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« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2013, 01:04:07 AM » |
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I grew up in the Orthodox church and the only men who had long hair were monks. I have been to Russian, Greek, Coptic, and Antiochian parishes over the years, and the only times I noticed non-clergy men ( in the past 25 years or so) with long hair and beards were on those who converted to Orthodoxy. If you want to stand out as a convert than by all means grow your hair really long and have a big long beard to match.  |
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 01:05:43 AM by Tamara »
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Alpo
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« Reply #63 on: June 12, 2013, 02:16:24 AM » |
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Alpo,
If you are referring to any of my comments about your hair, they were purely aesthetic judgements. Cut your hair and gain 20 pounds.
I was refering to some threads here where people are seriously discussing whether Orthodox men should have beard etc. I'd lose my soul if I cut my hair. I've had long hair for ten years and it'weirds to think myself without. I wouldn't know what to do with them if they weren't long. |
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 02:17:06 AM by Alpo »
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orthonorm
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« Reply #64 on: June 12, 2013, 07:17:02 AM » |
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Alpo,
If you are referring to any of my comments about your hair, they were purely aesthetic judgements. Cut your hair and gain 20 pounds.
I was refering to some threads here where people are seriously discussing whether Orthodox men should have beard etc. I'd lose my soul if I cut my hair. I've had long hair for ten years and it'weirds to think myself without. I wouldn't know what to do with them if they weren't long. Dude it is oc.net. It is oc.net. We are maniacs. |
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Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
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William
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« Reply #65 on: June 12, 2013, 09:32:53 AM » |
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I long for the days when I could grow long hair. Not that I would grow it long at present. But still... I just wish I had that option. As for St. Paul... well isn't it obvious? For those who don't believe in biblical infallibility it is... In addition to what LBK posted I also saw something saying that shoulder-length hair was not considered long by ancient Semitic standards. Back-length would be. |
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Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
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Gamliel
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« Reply #66 on: June 12, 2013, 10:05:36 AM » |
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Who decides whether to call somebody's hair length long or short?  |
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Alveus Lacuna
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« Reply #67 on: June 12, 2013, 10:25:31 AM » |
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Long hair is awesome. Period.
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mike
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« Reply #68 on: June 12, 2013, 03:26:10 PM » |
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« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 03:26:27 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Arachne
Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
Section Moderator
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Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland
Posts: 3,988
Tending Brigid's flame
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« Reply #69 on: June 12, 2013, 03:52:47 PM » |
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Short hair needs more maintenance. (Don't try to make a bonfire of styling products, though! ) |
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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls
Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox |
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #70 on: June 12, 2013, 06:16:26 PM » |
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Do you have any legitimate argument against my post? Ignoring my points and calling it "Rasta BS" is hardly an argument. I never brought up Rastas bro. Selam |
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"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #71 on: June 12, 2013, 06:17:33 PM » |
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Alpo,
If you are referring to any of my comments about your hair, they were purely aesthetic judgements. Cut your hair and gain 20 pounds.
Long hair on most guys is horrible. Period.
Gebre, in the many photos of himself he has shared, is a clear exception.
Thanks man. That was kind of you to say.  Selam |
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"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
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Schultz
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« Reply #72 on: June 13, 2013, 11:33:52 AM » |
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We also have to define "long hair". Would we consider the Beatles ca. 1964 as having "long hair" now? They certainly did back then but the idea is laughable to me. Is hair long once it goes past the ear? Collar? Shoulder? Or is it only "long" once it's halfway down one's back?
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"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
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Arachne
Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
Online
Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland
Posts: 3,988
Tending Brigid's flame
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« Reply #73 on: June 13, 2013, 11:39:58 AM » |
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We also have to define "long hair". Would we consider the Beatles ca. 1964 as having "long hair" now? They certainly did back then but the idea is laughable to me. Is hair long once it goes past the ear? Collar? Shoulder? Or is it only "long" once it's halfway down one's back? By women's hairdressing standards, short is chin length and up, long is shoulder length and down, and in-between it's medium. By those standards, most long-haired men I see around (the kind with ponytails, not full-time heavy metal musicians) actually fall in the medium length category. |
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'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls
Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox |
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