Author Topic: Lives of the Saints - an Information Only Thread  (Read 196538 times)

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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Lives of the Saints - an Information Only Thread
« Reply #180 on: January 11, 2018, 10:39:42 PM »
THE MARTYRDOM OF PETER "On another occasion I was relating to him how the Spanish in California had imprisoned fourteen Aleuts, and how the Jesuits were forcing all of them to accept the Catholic Faith. But this Aleut would not agree under any circumstances, saying, 'We are Christians.' The Jesuits protested, 'That's not true; you are heretics and schismatics. If you do not agree to accept our faith then we will torture all of you.' Then the Aleuts were placed in cells until evening; two to a cell. At night the Jesuits came to the prison with lanterns and lighted candles. They began to persuade the Aleuts in the cell once again to accept the Catholic Faith. 'We are Christians,' was the answer of the Aleuts, 'and we will not change our Faith.' Then the Jesuits began to torture them, at first the one while his companion was the witness. They cut the toes off his feet, first one joint and then the other joint. And then they cut the first joint on the fingers of the hands, and then the other joint. Afterwards they cut off his feet, and his hands; the blood flowed. The martyr endured all and steadfastly insisted on one thing: "I am a Christian.' In such suffering, he bled to death. The Jesuit promised to torture to death his comrades also on the next day.

But that night an order was received from Monterey stating that the imprisoned Aleuts were to be released immediately, and sent there under escort. Therefore, in the morning all were dispatched to Monterey with the exception of the martyred Aleut. This was related to me by a witness, the same Aleut who was the comrade of the tortured Aleut. Afterwards he escaped from imprisonment, and I reported this incident to the supreme authorities in St Petersburg. When I finished my story, Father Herman asked, 'And how did they call the martyred Aleut?' I answered, 'Peter; I do not remember his family name.' The Elder stood up before an icon reverently, made the sign of the Cross and pronounced, "Holy newly-martyred Peter, pray to God for usl"
Just a random piece of curiosity that hopefully ups the thread: it seems St. Peter the Aleut wasn't technically an Aleut. He was an Alutiiq. The ethnonym is apparently close enough to be mixed with "Aleut", and it seems people used to call both Aleuts and Alutiiqs the same, but their languages are extremely different and they don't share the same habitat. Compare Aleut numbers "ataqan, aalax, qaankun, siching, chaang" with Alutiiq "allringuq, mal'uk, pingayun, staaman, talliman".
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Lives of the Saints - an Information Only Thread
« Reply #181 on: January 11, 2018, 11:00:10 PM »
THE MARTYRDOM OF PETER "On another occasion I was relating to him how the Spanish in California had imprisoned fourteen Aleuts, and how the Jesuits were forcing all of them to accept the Catholic Faith. But this Aleut would not agree under any circumstances, saying, 'We are Christians.' The Jesuits protested, 'That's not true; you are heretics and schismatics. If you do not agree to accept our faith then we will torture all of you.' Then the Aleuts were placed in cells until evening; two to a cell. At night the Jesuits came to the prison with lanterns and lighted candles. They began to persuade the Aleuts in the cell once again to accept the Catholic Faith. 'We are Christians,' was the answer of the Aleuts, 'and we will not change our Faith.' Then the Jesuits began to torture them, at first the one while his companion was the witness. They cut the toes off his feet, first one joint and then the other joint. And then they cut the first joint on the fingers of the hands, and then the other joint. Afterwards they cut off his feet, and his hands; the blood flowed. The martyr endured all and steadfastly insisted on one thing: "I am a Christian.' In such suffering, he bled to death. The Jesuit promised to torture to death his comrades also on the next day.

But that night an order was received from Monterey stating that the imprisoned Aleuts were to be released immediately, and sent there under escort. Therefore, in the morning all were dispatched to Monterey with the exception of the martyred Aleut. This was related to me by a witness, the same Aleut who was the comrade of the tortured Aleut. Afterwards he escaped from imprisonment, and I reported this incident to the supreme authorities in St Petersburg. When I finished my story, Father Herman asked, 'And how did they call the martyred Aleut?' I answered, 'Peter; I do not remember his family name.' The Elder stood up before an icon reverently, made the sign of the Cross and pronounced, "Holy newly-martyred Peter, pray to God for usl"
Just a random piece of curiosity that hopefully ups the thread: it seems St. Peter the Aleut wasn't technically an Aleut. He was an Alutiiq. The ethnonym is apparently close enough to be mixed with "Aleut", and it seems people used to call both Aleuts and Alutiiqs the same, but their languages are extremely different and they don't share the same habitat. Compare Aleut numbers "ataqan, aalax, qaankun, siching, chaang" with Alutiiq "allringuq, mal'uk, pingayun, staaman, talliman".

Yeah, the Russians tended to just use one word for all Native populations. Nowadays, the people of the Aleutian Islands tend to go by "Unangax," though I don't think "Aleut" is considered a slur the way "Eskimo" sometimes is.

The Alutiiq (which is really just the word "Aleut" transliterated into Sugstun, their language) or Sugpiat as they call themselves, live mostly on and around Kodiak Island, which was the first capital of Russian America. Same climate, just a lot more trees and a little less wind.
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Offline stanley123

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Re: Lives of the Saints - an Information Only Thread
« Reply #182 on: January 17, 2019, 02:29:49 AM »
THE MARTYRDOM OF PETER "On another occasion I was relating to him how the Spanish in California had imprisoned fourteen Aleuts, and how the Jesuits were forcing all of them to accept the Catholic Faith. But this Aleut would not agree under any circumstances, saying, 'We are Christians.' The Jesuits protested, 'That's not true; you are heretics and schismatics. If you do not agree to accept our faith then we will torture all of you.' Then the Aleuts were placed in cells until evening; two to a cell. At night the Jesuits came to the prison with lanterns and lighted candles. They began to persuade the Aleuts in the cell once again to accept the Catholic Faith. 'We are Christians,' was the answer of the Aleuts, 'and we will not change our Faith.' Then the Jesuits began to torture them, at first the one while his companion was the witness. They cut the toes off his feet, first one joint and then the other joint. And then they cut the first joint on the fingers of the hands, and then the other joint. Afterwards they cut off his feet, and his hands; the blood flowed. The martyr endured all and steadfastly insisted on one thing: "I am a Christian.' In such suffering, he bled to death. The Jesuit promised to torture to death his comrades also on the next day.

But that night an order was received from Monterey stating that the imprisoned Aleuts were to be released immediately, and sent there under escort. Therefore, in the morning all were dispatched to Monterey with the exception of the martyred Aleut. This was related to me by a witness, the same Aleut who was the comrade of the tortured Aleut. Afterwards he escaped from imprisonment, and I reported this incident to the supreme authorities in St Petersburg. When I finished my story, Father Herman asked, 'And how did they call the martyred Aleut?' I answered, 'Peter; I do not remember his family name.' The Elder stood up before an icon reverently, made the sign of the Cross and pronounced, "Holy newly-martyred Peter, pray to God for usl"
Just a random piece of curiosity that hopefully ups the thread: it seems St. Peter the Aleut wasn't technically an Aleut. He was an Alutiiq. The ethnonym is apparently close enough to be mixed with "Aleut", and it seems people used to call both Aleuts and Alutiiqs the same, but their languages are extremely different and they don't share the same habitat. Compare Aleut numbers "ataqan, aalax, qaankun, siching, chaang" with Alutiiq "allringuq, mal'uk, pingayun, staaman, talliman".
Many of the details of the martyrdom of St. Peter the Aleut are similar to those of St. Jacob the Persian, which raises eyebrows.  Further, a wikipedia article on Peter the Aleut makes it difficult to believe that there were any Jesuits any where near California in 1815. Also there is an article by the Orthodox priest Father Oliver Herbel that St. Peter the Aleut did not exist. Do most Orthodox today accept what Father Herbel has said, or accept that the story of the Jesuit torture of St. Peter the Aleut is not true, or do most Orthodox accept the martydom story of St. Peter the Aleut, as true?

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Lives of the Saints - an Information Only Thread
« Reply #183 on: January 31, 2019, 03:11:41 PM »
Slowly cutting people is far from an original narrative piece, and even if there weren't Jesuits in California at this moment, which I haven't seen been demonstrated, there were Catholic monastics in 1815 California, and the villified Jesuits so abhorred by the Eastern Orthodox might easily get overlapped with Franciscans, just like any Alaskan might be called an Aleut.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Lives of the Saints - an Information Only Thread
« Reply #184 on: January 31, 2019, 05:50:11 PM »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Lives of the Saints - an Information Only Thread
« Reply #185 on: January 31, 2019, 07:43:04 PM »
St. Peter the Aleut, pray unto God for us.
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