You say a zygote is a full blown person with a 'soul'. A person isnt necessarily a Nazi genocidal killer, or a homicidal manic, or a mass murderer if they don't accept that..
This ranks as probably one of the most stupid statements on this thread. So, per your belief, Nazis are not necessarily genocidal killers because they did not believe Jews to be fully human. The KKK should continue decorating trees with black people because they do not belive black people to be fully human. The idea of what constitues a human has been behing nearly every mass killing. Abortion is no different.
By any measure Nazi idea's were not reasonable and tainted by hatred and predudice and easily refutable by credible Scientific methods.
On the other hand, it is perfectly reasonable for a person to not accept your religious idea's about what a soul is or when it enters the body.
The reason is, there is absolutely no evidence or is there anything observable about those contentions. They are totally and completely faith based. You accept them because your religion says so. You take those contentions on Faith and Faith alone.
Thanks for sharing your religious idea's. They don't really translate well into the secular World where people need to be persuaded of such things. If you try to enforce your religious idea's at the point of a gun, then people will resist and rightly so.
What you don't seem to get, Marc, is that we are discussing "Is abortion actually murder?" as Christians amongst Christians on a Christian discussion board.
(The answer, as has been posted, is yes, btw.)
Over and over again you say that pushing one's religion on others, etc., etc., won't work, and while you may well be right (or not, perhaps--depending on the individuals in the discussion), there is no one on this board pushing their religious beliefs on anyone else on this board
, that I can determine, anyway. Speaking of "push, push, push..." this really is
the pot calling the kettle black! What we do, and how we do it "out in the world" amongst non-believers may well be, and probably IS a different matter altogether. The Church teaches us that abortion IS murder, and that has to be part of our frame of reference, no matter who we're talking to about it. I don't turn my Christianity on and off out of convenience or a pseudo-consideration for others who aren't Christian. But that does NOT mean that I also shove it down their throats out in the world.
"There is more than one way to skin a cat", the saying goes. So, when dealing with the abortion issue with those who are non-believers, anyone with any sense or compassion will frame their argument in a way that the other will be able to hear and understand (hopefully!). They will not at the same time, however, abandon their Christian belief, which is the very foundation upon which they approach the matter to begin with. In fact, knowing full well that there is no state religion in this country (duh!!), try not to forget that many of our laws, including those forbidding murder, are Scripturally based. So, in a sense, when we legislate against murder, we are forcing religious beliefs on those who don't have them but would murder if it weren't illegal. So, the task becomes "how do we, as Christians, convince those who are not and want to murder their unborn children, that what they are doing constitutes murder, i.e. the killing of a defenseless human being
?" From what I've been able to see, there's plenty of science around that can show that a fetus (or zygote, if you prefer), is a human being. I even posted some links to that effect earlier in this thread which it seems you have either overlooked or ignored. And, speaking of meddlesome, God forbid that we "meddle" in anyone else's life and try to prevent them, believer or non-believer, from killing unborn babies!!
So, if it really
bothers you to insert any kind of Christian framework into a discussion about abortion, I found this which may or may not interest you:
“As a materialist, I think it has been demonstrated that an embryo is a separate body and entity, and not merely (as some really did used to argue) a growth on or in the female body. There used to be feminists who would say that it was more like an appendix or even-this was seriously maintained-a tumor. That nonsense seems to have stopped. Of the considerations that have stopped it, one is the fascinating and moving view provided by the sonogram, and another is the survival of ‘premature’ babies of feather-like weight, who have achieved ‘viability’ outside the womb. … The words ‘unborn child,’ even when used in a politicized manner, describe a material reality.”
-Christopher Hitchens, God is Not Great (pp. 220-21)
Draw your own conclusions.