Until you can admit, as an Orthodox Christian, abortion is murder, we will not be able to move forward and discuss any of you points.
That's hardly the problem. Attempting an adult discussion with someone who exhibits third grade problem solving skills and academic prowess is the problem. Additionally, a person who claims Orthodoxy yet not only ignores it seemingly with every fiber, actively resists its instruction only compounds the problem. Your focus is in the wrong place. You have yet to admit abortion is murder and until you do, your words hold little, if any, value.
Just so you know, it is incredibly difficult to interact with you without losing ones temper, but I suspect that is the goal.
2. My undeniable comment is that abortion would have certainly screwed up your life. In fact, it would have violently and painfully ended your life altogether. This is a fact that cannot be denied. So, I'm glad that your mother did the selfless and loving thing by giving you life. I'm glad you're here in this world, and I bet your mom is too.
We agree here completely. I do have to admit, however, that there are times that I would like to put my boot so far up his rear that a dentist would have to take it out. But I am still glad the he is here and on this forum.
I would like to put my boot so far up his rear that a dentist would have to take it out.
As I have been pointing out, there seems to be tendency towards threatening violence from some people here.
That kind of belligerence doesnt square with the message, not the Pro Life message or any sort of Christian message.. People then conclude you're either grossly miss informed or a hypocrite and dismiss what you have to say..
Oy gevalt! Unreal.
Do you not know the difference between an honest expression of frustration by someone and an actual, serious threat of bodily harm?? You have children--did you never have the same or a similar thought about them when the said or did something stupid or ridiculous? Did you follow the thought with an actual, serious threat of bodily harm which you either acted upon or had to restrain yourself from doing?? Or was the thought just that--a thought of frustration that came and went, as so many thoughts do? Good grief, man!!
This is not isolated comment. Several people have expressed violent and or ultra aggressive intentions. If you cant see the hypocrisy in that sort of posturing and the great harm it does then I dont have the words to explain it to you.
See post #822 above. Are you yet again falsely accusing Punch of making threats when he has not done so? Or did you have others in mind? Why not specify precisely who and the actual, real threat that was made?
I think there has been al lot of intimidating language, not even to mention threats of Jail for Women who have abortions I guess you didnt notice or care to notice.
I've high lighted several of these.
So the pattern in Self righteous Judgemental finger pointing..frustration that it doesn't work..move on to threats of harm/jail/getting roughed up..
And yet, it's incomprehensible to you that this can be objectionable. Truly amazing
You have focused on and grabbed hold of a meaningless support in this discussion and your flailing around in the attempt to create some imagined injustice has failed miserably. Abortion is murder, end of story. You either accept that or reject the Church's teachings provided from God. All else is trivial tail chasing. Choose wisely.
I know it's frustrating to be disagreed with. If it's too difficult for you then find another hobby instead of internet posting.. Cooking maybe..That can be very relaxing
.. I think you have a problem when you don't do as well in a debate as your self image would suggest you should be doing.
So is Abortion the exact same thing as any other Murder and will get ( once your are put in charge) Women punished in the same way, execution or long jail time?
I've asked Marc twice in the "Politics" forum whether he thinks abortion is murder, without reply yet. Here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50954.msg908558.html#msg908558 and here: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,50954.msg908748.html#msg908748
I am perfectly willing to explain this to you and end your confusion once you answer my question asked of you about 15 times. If abortion is murder why not punish it like any other first degree murder. It has all the elements of first degree murder. To deny that is dishonest. It has premeditation. the intentional taking of a life and even the exchange of money to do the deed. That is easily first degree Murder.
So why not execute women who have had abortions or at least send them to jail for life? And if you hesitate then I would like to know why.
I will answer your question in the other thread. The logical inconsistency of your position is torturous.
I'll bet you excelled at dodge
ball as a kid.
Okay...I'll play your childish little game of "Oh no....YOU go first, then I'll go..."
Abortion is murder. In a society where abortion has been criminalized as homicide/murder (which I realize does not exist in this country, hope that it will one day, and probably won't live to see it), the woman receiving the abortion should be punished as that society so deems. If the offense of "homicide by abortion" (or whatever) has attached to it a certain punishment, then that is what that society should impose. Murder, by the way, usually has a range
of punishments attached to it, depending on, in this country, which state it has been committed in. So, not being any kind of expert on these things, I would *suggest*, depending on the circumstances, the mental state of the woman, and probably a number of other mitigating circumstances that I can't think of now, anything between 10 years to life imprisonment, parole and time off for "good behavior" also allowed. For the one actually performing the abortion, revocation of any medical license forever, and imprisonment for 25-life, no parole. If a given state has the death penalty and chooses to impose it for that, especially for a repeat or serial offender, I wouldn't necessarily be averse to that.
I'm sorry if my suggestions don't fall completely in line with your overly rigid thinking about what constitutes murder, the lack of any kind of degrees of murder and culpability for it, etc., but I'm not
the kind of person who necessarily thinks "any homicide of any kind always deserves the most severe penalty possible".
The reason why I would "hesitate" to execute women who have abortions is the same reason I tend to be against capital punishment in general. If you want to start a different thread to discuss the pros and cons of capital punishment, be my guest. Suffice it to say for the purposes of this discussion, I find the intentional killing of anyone disturbing and usually, but not always, avoidable. Feel free to check out the Catholic Church's position on capital punishment as discussed in the Catechism--I agree with that.
Okay, Sunshine...your "turn"
....Time for the Quid pro quo.
1. Is abortion murder?
C) Don't know
2. If abortion is NOT murder, what is it?
Answer me here, or answer me in the "Politics" forum. They are *NOT* difficult questions. In fact, my opinion is that they are far easier than the one you demanded I answer and have. So, yes, time to end what you consider to be my "confusion" about your position on this matter, once and for all.