OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 18, 2014, 08:36:17 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos  (Read 2970 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,124



« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2012, 12:32:58 PM »

I'd always assumed it was an honor thing within a metropolitan's diocese - the Greeks' hierarch in Ethiopia was commemorated as an "archbishop" at the services as well, though he was only a metropolitan.

It is the same structure as the GOA. Metropolitano is Metropolitan in Spanish. Archbishop is a honorary title which means Primate. This is why Archbishop ATHENAGORUS heads the Episcopal Assembly for South America. I'm not trying to split hairs but it is proper to say Archbishop now. Just as it is proper to honor Archbishop Demetrios of the GOA with His proper title.


Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.



I don't know, but I'll add this to our discusion, after the GOAA bishops were elevated to the dignity of "metropolitan," due to the new Constitutional Charter of 2003, the GOAA parishes were advised that the hierarch of our new metropolis', is to be addressed liturgically as "Our Archbishop..."  The metropolitans are to be referred to as "Our Archbishop"  at the appropriate petition or place in the Divine Services of the Church.  Huh, ?

Metropolitan Athenagoras heads the Episcopal Assembly of Central America because the rules for the episcopal assemblies call for them to be headed by the ranking bishop according to the dyptics, among the hierarchs in the region, and he is the Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarch, the "First Throne" in honor of the Orthodox Church.
Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,531


« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2012, 12:34:04 PM »

What about Archbishops Tarasios or Jeremiah?
Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,124



« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2012, 12:46:03 PM »

Metropolitan Tarasios of Buenos Aries, another American citizen, is in the South American Episcopal Assembly.  (I don't know who Archbishop Jeremiah is, sorry.)

Again, though I don't not know for sure, I think these Ecumenical Patriarchate metropolitans are only using the title "Archbishop" because "Metropolitan" is not a commonly understood title among the general, non-Orthodox, in these lands that are so overwhelmingly dominated by Roman Catholicism.  I've not seen anything from the Ecumenical Patriarchate that their titles have been changed.

Likewise, not in anything official, I notice Metropolitan Savas of Pittsburgh uses "Metropolitan-Bishop" on his facebook page, probably to explain his title for the general public. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 12:50:05 PM by Basil 320 » Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,531


« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2012, 12:50:55 PM »

Metropolitan Tarasios of Buenos Aries, another American citizen, is in the South American Episcopal Assembly.  (I don't know who Archbishop Jeremiah is, sorry.)

Archbishop Jeremiah

Why don't he or Abp Tarasios preside the Assembly?
Logged
ag_vn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 409



« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2012, 12:59:24 PM »

The four Antiochian Metropolitans in Latin America (Antonios, Sergios, Damaskinos and Silouan) are also often called "Archbishops" in Spanish, although in reality their proper title is "Metropolitan", as currently the Antiochian Patriarchate has only two hishops, who hold the title of "Archbishop" - Niphon of Philippopolis and Joseph of Los Angeles. So I think that the terms are used interchangeably in Latin America.
Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,124



« Reply #50 on: July 23, 2012, 01:05:09 PM »

Metropolitan Tarasios of Buenos Aries, another American citizen, is in the South American Episcopal Assembly.  (I don't know who Archbishop Jeremiah is, sorry.)

Archbishop Jeremiah

Why don't he or Abp Tarasios preside the Assembly?

I thought Metropolitan Tarasios does preside over the South American Episcopal Assembly.  It's probably a seniority matter, and there isn't a provision for dual presiding hierarchs.
Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,531


« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2012, 01:10:16 PM »

Metropolitan Athenagoras heads the Episcopal Assembly of Central America

There is no such thing.
Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,124



« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2012, 01:21:20 PM »

I stand corrected, sorry; Central America is not a region unto itself for an episcopal assembly.  So, regarding your Reply no. 46, isn't Metropolitan Tarasios the presiding hierarch of the South American Episcopal Assembly?
Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
Fr. Deacon Daniel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 154



« Reply #53 on: July 23, 2012, 01:31:58 PM »

No, it is presided by Archbishop ATHENAGORUS.

I stand corrected, sorry; Central America is not a region unto itself for an episcopal assembly.  So, regarding your Reply no. 46, isn't Metropolitan Tarasios the presiding hierarch of the South American Episcopal Assembly?
Logged

"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody thinks about changing himself."

—Dostoevsky
kijabeboy03
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 850

"The glory of God is in man fully alive."


« Reply #54 on: July 23, 2012, 11:12:29 PM »

The ecumenical who now? ;-)

But yes, I know (the non-existence of a Central American Assembly aside of course).

I'd always assumed it was an honor thing within a metropolitan's diocese - the Greeks' hierarch in Ethiopia was commemorated as an "archbishop" at the services as well, though he was only a metropolitan.

It is the same structure as the GOA. Metropolitano is Metropolitan in Spanish. Archbishop is a honorary title which means Primate. This is why Archbishop ATHENAGORUS heads the Episcopal Assembly for South America. I'm not trying to split hairs but it is proper to say Archbishop now. Just as it is proper to honor Archbishop Demetrios of the GOA with His proper title.


Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.



I don't know, but I'll add this to our discusion, after the GOAA bishops were elevated to the dignity of "metropolitan," due to the new Constitutional Charter of 2003, the GOAA parishes were advised that the hierarch of our new metropolis', is to be addressed liturgically as "Our Archbishop..."  The metropolitans are to be referred to as "Our Archbishop"  at the appropriate petition or place in the Divine Services of the Church.  Huh, ?

Metropolitan Athenagoras heads the Episcopal Assembly of Central America because the rules for the episcopal assemblies call for them to be headed by the ranking bishop according to the dyptics, among the hierarchs in the region, and he is the Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarch, the "First Throne" in honor of the Orthodox Church.
Logged

"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~
kijabeboy03
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 850

"The glory of God is in man fully alive."


« Reply #55 on: July 23, 2012, 11:17:22 PM »

I would assume seniority - Metropolitan Athenagoras was consecrated in 1982 (according to the Patriarchate's website anyways) and Metropolitan Tarasius was consecrated in 2001. Archbishop Jeremiah isn't Greek, but that aside he was consecrated in 1993, so Metropolitan Athenagoras still outranks him in seniority.

Metropolitan Tarasios of Buenos Aries, another American citizen, is in the South American Episcopal Assembly.  (I don't know who Archbishop Jeremiah is, sorry.)

Archbishop Jeremiah

Why don't he or Abp Tarasios preside the Assembly?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 11:17:52 PM by kijabeboy03 » Logged

"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2012, 12:07:26 AM »

To Bishop-elect Pankratij, Axios!

To the rest of you, you should enroll for the Spring Semester Dogmatics II class at St. Sophia Seminary in South Bound Brook this coming Spring, and all your questions about Metropolitans and Archbishops will be answered.   Wink
Logged
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2012, 12:12:36 AM »

BTW the classes are now available to be taken online for credit at the seminary.  Dogmatics I this fall wouldn't hurt either.  Still time to enroll. 
Logged
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 13,620



WWW
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2012, 01:21:06 AM »


Online?  Really, Father?

So, if I signed up, would I be able to claim I studied "at the seminary"?  Wink

For those who haven't had the honor to be personally acquainted with FatherHLL, let me tell you....he is one great instructor! 
You can learn a lot from him!

So, Father....online, huh?   Interesting....

Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #59 on: July 24, 2012, 01:33:22 AM »


Online?  Really, Father?

So, if I signed up, would I be able to claim I studied "at the seminary"?  Wink

For those who haven't had the honor to be personally acquainted with FatherHLL, let me tell you....he is one great instructor! 
You can learn a lot from him!

So, Father....online, huh?   Interesting....


Well Liza, in your case, you already have studied at the Seminary.  The Library adjacent to the Consistory is actually the Seminary Library, not the Consistory library, and is a seminary classroom (likewise, there are several classrooms in the Cultural center that are Seminary classrooms, not consistory rooms).  But for those who haven't had this opportunity, is a great opportunity!  For those who have, is still a great opportunity! 
Logged
Fr. Deacon Daniel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 154



« Reply #60 on: July 24, 2012, 06:14:36 PM »

In the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the title is used variously. In the Greek Churches archbishops are ranked above metropolitans in precedence, as in the case of Archbishop Demetrios of America, who is the Primate of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, and primates of local churches below patriarchal rank are generally designated as archbishops. The reverse is true for the Slavic Churches (Russian Orthodox, Bulgarian Orthodox, etc. with exception of Serbian Orthodox Church and Macedonian Orthodox Church[2] where Archbishop is ranked above Metropolitans) and for the Romanian Orthodox Church, where metropolitans rank above archbishops and the title can be used for primatial sees as well as important cities.

In neither case do metropolitans have any special authority over other ruling bishops within their provinces. However, metropolitans (archbishops in the Greek Orthodox Church) are the chairmen of their respective synods of bishops, and have special privileges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_bishop


Archbishops and Metropolitans

The title of archbishop or metropolitan may be granted to a senior bishop, usually one who is in charge of a large ecclesiastical jurisdiction. He may or may not have provincial oversight of suffragan bishops. He may or may not have auxiliary bishops assisting him.

In the Slavonic and Antiochian traditions, a metropolitan outranks an archbishop. The reverse is the situation in the Greek tradition. The Antiochian tradition also uses the style metropolitan archbishop to differentiate from metropolitan bishops in the Greek tradition.

The change in the Greek tradition came about in later Greek history, because the diocesan bishops of ancient sees (which in the Greek diaspora include most) came to be styled metropolitans, short for "metropolitan bishops."

The Slavonic and Antiochian churches continue to follow the older tradition, where an archbishop is a senior bishop in charge of a major see, and a metropolitan is a bishop in charge of a province which may include a number of minor and/or major sees.

In the Greek tradition, all diocesan bishops of autocephalous churches such as the Church of Greece (the bishop of Patras being Metropolitan) are now metropolitans, and an archbishop holds his title as an indication of greater importance for whatever reason. The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is the notable exception in the Greek practice where diocesan bishops carry the title of metropolitan. In other churches under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate such as the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia the ruling bishop is the archbishop while the other bishops are auxiliary bishops with titles of the ancient sees.

Non-ruling bishops

A bishop who does not rule his own diocese is either a Patriarchal Vicar or an Auxiliary Bishop.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Archbishop

If this information is not correct maybe Fr. HLL will be willing to correct it.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 06:44:54 PM by Fr. Deacon Daniel » Logged

"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody thinks about changing himself."

—Dostoevsky
kijabeboy03
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 850

"The glory of God is in man fully alive."


« Reply #61 on: July 24, 2012, 08:11:56 PM »

If I'm not mistaken the Bulgarian Orthodox Church follows Greek custom - if you check out a listing of their hierarchy there's the patriarch, the metropolitans (the ruling diocesan bishops), and the bishops (who are all auxiliaries).

In the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the title is used variously. In the Greek Churches archbishops are ranked above metropolitans in precedence, as in the case of Archbishop Demetrios of America, who is the Primate of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, and primates of local churches below patriarchal rank are generally designated as archbishops. The reverse is true for the Slavic Churches (Russian Orthodox, Bulgarian Orthodox, etc. with exception of Serbian Orthodox Church and Macedonian Orthodox Church[2] where Archbishop is ranked above Metropolitans) and for the Romanian Orthodox Church, where metropolitans rank above archbishops and the title can be used for primatial sees as well as important cities.

In neither case do metropolitans have any special authority over other ruling bishops within their provinces. However, metropolitans (archbishops in the Greek Orthodox Church) are the chairmen of their respective synods of bishops, and have special privileges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_bishop


Archbishops and Metropolitans

The title of archbishop or metropolitan may be granted to a senior bishop, usually one who is in charge of a large ecclesiastical jurisdiction. He may or may not have provincial oversight of suffragan bishops. He may or may not have auxiliary bishops assisting him.

In the Slavonic and Antiochian traditions, a metropolitan outranks an archbishop. The reverse is the situation in the Greek tradition. The Antiochian tradition also uses the style metropolitan archbishop to differentiate from metropolitan bishops in the Greek tradition.

The change in the Greek tradition came about in later Greek history, because the diocesan bishops of ancient sees (which in the Greek diaspora include most) came to be styled metropolitans, short for "metropolitan bishops."

The Slavonic and Antiochian churches continue to follow the older tradition, where an archbishop is a senior bishop in charge of a major see, and a metropolitan is a bishop in charge of a province which may include a number of minor and/or major sees.

In the Greek tradition, all diocesan bishops of autocephalous churches such as the Church of Greece (the bishop of Patras being Metropolitan) are now metropolitans, and an archbishop holds his title as an indication of greater importance for whatever reason. The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is the notable exception in the Greek practice where diocesan bishops carry the title of metropolitan. In other churches under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate such as the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia the ruling bishop is the archbishop while the other bishops are auxiliary bishops with titles of the ancient sees.

Non-ruling bishops

A bishop who does not rule his own diocese is either a Patriarchal Vicar or an Auxiliary Bishop.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Archbishop

If this information is not correct maybe Fr. HLL will be willing to correct it.
Logged

"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #62 on: July 24, 2012, 08:19:27 PM »

If I'm not mistaken the Bulgarian Orthodox Church follows Greek custom - if you check out a listing of their hierarchy there's the patriarch, the metropolitans (the ruling diocesan bishops), and the bishops (who are all auxiliaries).

In the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the title is used variously. In the Greek Churches archbishops are ranked above metropolitans in precedence, as in the case of Archbishop Demetrios of America, who is the Primate of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, and primates of local churches below patriarchal rank are generally designated as archbishops. The reverse is true for the Slavic Churches (Russian Orthodox, Bulgarian Orthodox, etc. with exception of Serbian Orthodox Church and Macedonian Orthodox Church[2] where Archbishop is ranked above Metropolitans) and for the Romanian Orthodox Church, where metropolitans rank above archbishops and the title can be used for primatial sees as well as important cities.

In neither case do metropolitans have any special authority over other ruling bishops within their provinces. However, metropolitans (archbishops in the Greek Orthodox Church) are the chairmen of their respective synods of bishops, and have special privileges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_bishop


Archbishops and Metropolitans

The title of archbishop or metropolitan may be granted to a senior bishop, usually one who is in charge of a large ecclesiastical jurisdiction. He may or may not have provincial oversight of suffragan bishops. He may or may not have auxiliary bishops assisting him.

In the Slavonic and Antiochian traditions, a metropolitan outranks an archbishop. The reverse is the situation in the Greek tradition. The Antiochian tradition also uses the style metropolitan archbishop to differentiate from metropolitan bishops in the Greek tradition.

The change in the Greek tradition came about in later Greek history, because the diocesan bishops of ancient sees (which in the Greek diaspora include most) came to be styled metropolitans, short for "metropolitan bishops."

The Slavonic and Antiochian churches continue to follow the older tradition, where an archbishop is a senior bishop in charge of a major see, and a metropolitan is a bishop in charge of a province which may include a number of minor and/or major sees.

In the Greek tradition, all diocesan bishops of autocephalous churches such as the Church of Greece (the bishop of Patras being Metropolitan) are now metropolitans, and an archbishop holds his title as an indication of greater importance for whatever reason. The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is the notable exception in the Greek practice where diocesan bishops carry the title of metropolitan. In other churches under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate such as the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia the ruling bishop is the archbishop while the other bishops are auxiliary bishops with titles of the ancient sees.

Non-ruling bishops

A bishop who does not rule his own diocese is either a Patriarchal Vicar or an Auxiliary Bishop.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Archbishop

If this information is not correct maybe Fr. HLL will be willing to correct it.

And Jerusalem follows supposedly "Slavic" custom. 
Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,124



« Reply #63 on: July 24, 2012, 08:52:30 PM »

CORRECTION TO REPLY NO. 60, last paragraph of "Archbishops and Metropolitans."

Since the implementation of the 2003 Constitutional Charter of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, the diocesan bishops are elevated to the dignity of "metropolitan."
Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,531


« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2012, 01:35:22 AM »

And Jerusalem follows supposedly "Slavic" custom. 

Don't you mean the Antiochians?
Logged
ag_vn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 409



« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2012, 02:42:11 AM »

If I'm not mistaken the Bulgarian Orthodox Church follows Greek custom - if you check out a listing of their hierarchy there's the patriarch, the metropolitans (the ruling diocesan bishops), and the bishops (who are all auxiliaries).

Yes, that's right. In the Bulgarian Orthodox Church all the diocesan bishops are Metropolitans, while bishops are auxiliaries with ancient titular sees.
Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,124



« Reply #66 on: July 25, 2012, 03:05:44 AM »

If I'm not mistaken the Bulgarian Orthodox Church follows Greek custom - if you check out a listing of their hierarchy there's the patriarch, the metropolitans (the ruling diocesan bishops), and the bishops (who are all auxiliaries).

In the Eastern Orthodox Churches, the title is used variously. In the Greek Churches archbishops are ranked above metropolitans in precedence, as in the case of Archbishop Demetrios of America, who is the Primate of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, and primates of local churches below patriarchal rank are generally designated as archbishops. The reverse is true for the Slavic Churches (Russian Orthodox, Bulgarian Orthodox, etc. with exception of Serbian Orthodox Church and Macedonian Orthodox Church[2] where Archbishop is ranked above Metropolitans) and for the Romanian Orthodox Church, where metropolitans rank above archbishops and the title can be used for primatial sees as well as important cities.

In neither case do metropolitans have any special authority over other ruling bishops within their provinces. However, metropolitans (archbishops in the Greek Orthodox Church) are the chairmen of their respective synods of bishops, and have special privileges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_bishop


Archbishops and Metropolitans

The title of archbishop or metropolitan may be granted to a senior bishop, usually one who is in charge of a large ecclesiastical jurisdiction. He may or may not have provincial oversight of suffragan bishops. He may or may not have auxiliary bishops assisting him.

In the Slavonic and Antiochian traditions, a metropolitan outranks an archbishop. The reverse is the situation in the Greek tradition. The Antiochian tradition also uses the style metropolitan archbishop to differentiate from metropolitan bishops in the Greek tradition.

The change in the Greek tradition came about in later Greek history, because the diocesan bishops of ancient sees (which in the Greek diaspora include most) came to be styled metropolitans, short for "metropolitan bishops."

The Slavonic and Antiochian churches continue to follow the older tradition, where an archbishop is a senior bishop in charge of a major see, and a metropolitan is a bishop in charge of a province which may include a number of minor and/or major sees.

In the Greek tradition, all diocesan bishops of autocephalous churches such as the Church of Greece (the bishop of Patras being Metropolitan) are now metropolitans, and an archbishop holds his title as an indication of greater importance for whatever reason. The Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America is the notable exception in the Greek practice where diocesan bishops carry the title of metropolitan. In other churches under the jurisdiction of the Ecumenical Patriarchate such as the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia the ruling bishop is the archbishop while the other bishops are auxiliary bishops with titles of the ancient sees.

Non-ruling bishops

A bishop who does not rule his own diocese is either a Patriarchal Vicar or an Auxiliary Bishop.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Archbishop

If this information is not correct maybe Fr. HLL will be willing to correct it.

And Jerusalem follows supposedly "Slavic" custom.  

Some, and I emphasize, some, of the variations in practice emanate from two Typicons that exist in the church today, and for the past 112+ years.  Jerusalem still follows the Typicon which originated in Jerusalem, as do the Churches of Russia, Georgia, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Poland, Czech and Slovak Lands, Finland, and Japan.  In the late 19th century, the Ecumenical Patriarchate modified that typicon, developing a new one which it follows, along with the Churches of Alexandria, Antioch, Cyprus, Greece, and Albania; (there is some mix in the Albanian Church due to its history with the predecessor of the OCA, the Metropolia).  The Antiochian O. C. Archdiocese of North America follows the revised Typicon, but you may notice some Russian practices, including onion shaped domes, which are remnants of their association with the Russia Orthodox Greek Catholic Metropolia, predecessor of the OCA, prior to the 1920's.  (I may be wrong about a few of the churches noted above.)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 03:11:02 AM by Basil 320 » Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
ag_vn
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Posts: 409



« Reply #67 on: July 25, 2012, 03:22:55 AM »

Some, and I emphasize, some, of the variations in practice emanate from two Typicons that exist in the church today, and for the past 112+ years.  Jerusalem still follows the Typicon which originated in Jerusalem, as do the Churches of Russia, Georgia, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Poland, Czech and Slovak Lands, Finland, and Japan.  In the late 19th century, the Ecumenical Patriarchate modified that typicon, developing a new one which it follows, along with the Churches of Alexandria, Antioch, Cyprus, Greece, and Albania; (there is some mix in the Albanian Church due to its history with the predecessor of the OCA, the Metropolia).  The Antiochian O. C. Archdiocese of North America follows the revised Typicon, but you may notice some Russian practices, including onion shaped domes, which are remnants of their association with the Russia Orthodox Greek Catholic Metropolia, predecessor of the OCA, prior to the 1920's.  (I may be wrong about a few of the churches noted above.)

I think there is also some mix in the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. My impression is that it's closer to the Greek use, than to the Russian.
Logged
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,531


« Reply #68 on: July 25, 2012, 03:35:49 PM »

http://byztex.blogspot.com/2011/11/south-american-episcopal-assembly-meets.html

In accordance with a decision by the IV Pan-Orthodox Preconciliar Conference held in Chambesy, Switzerland, from November 2-4, 2011, the 2nd Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of South America was held in Buenos Aires...

Quote inserted to make it compatible with our link posting policy - MK.

Hey! That's my doing on that blog Smiley
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 03:37:59 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #69 on: July 25, 2012, 04:03:23 PM »

And Jerusalem follows supposedly "Slavic" custom. 

Don't you mean the Antiochians?

No, I mean the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, where Metropolitans are senior to Archbishops, the seniormost being the elder Metropolitan of Caesaria:
http://jerusalem-patriarchate.info/en/agia_iera_syn.htm#

Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,124



« Reply #70 on: July 25, 2012, 04:21:30 PM »

I don't mean to be argumentative, but the Church of Russia follows the Church of Jerusalem's Typicon and practices.

The Church of Antioch follows the Church of Constantinople's Typicon.
Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2012, 04:43:38 PM »

I don't mean to be argumentative, but the Church of Russia follows the Church of Jerusalem's Typicon and practices.

The Church of Antioch follows the Church of Constantinople's Typicon.

Argumentative about what?
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 04:55:02 PM by FatherHLL » Logged
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2012, 04:52:19 PM »

I don't mean to be argumentative, but the Church of Russia follows the Church of Jerusalem's Typicon and practices.

The Church of Antioch follows the Church of Constantinople's Typicon.

Regardless, before you get argumentative:

1.  The Typikon used has nothing to do with diptychal and synodic order determined by a primatial church.
2.  The Russian Church follows the older Typikon of the Monastery of St. Sabbas of Jerusalem, not the Typikon of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem.  While the two are closer than to Violakis, this has nothing to do with
3.  The Church of Antioch follows the Violakis Typikon, and does happen to have structure closer to Constantinople, but the one does not follow from the other in either direction
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 04:53:13 PM by FatherHLL » Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,124



« Reply #73 on: July 25, 2012, 05:26:21 PM »

Ok, I'll let it go, Father; you certainly know more about this than I know.
Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #74 on: July 25, 2012, 05:41:57 PM »

BTW, Antioch is in "flux" with the arrangement of Bishops, going back to a dispute between Met. George (Khodre) and other members of the Synod.  Met. George was correct in his argument about synodical structure and aux. bishops, but temporarily "lost" due to the situation in America (Met. Philip vs. the local Synod in America).  For the sake of peace current arrangements are sort of "in between."   
Logged
Fr. Deacon Daniel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 154



« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2012, 08:03:20 PM »

So, Fr. HLL,

Is it proper, in the Greek tradition, to address an archbishop only as archbishop or may you use metropolitan as well?
Logged

"Everybody wants to change the world, but nobody thinks about changing himself."

—Dostoevsky
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #76 on: July 26, 2012, 12:26:34 AM »

All of this gets rather tricky.

Even back at Chalcedon they were battling a frequent use of Metropolitan as a titular title.  But it became popular in some places.  Originally the title was that of a Metropolitan-Archbishop, shortened to Metropolitan, referring to the Primate of a Provincial Synod.

We have today in "northern Greek" practice (and new world practice):

1.  Diocesan Bishops with the title Metropolitan, making them Metropolitan-Bishop *(an interesting story on this from Met. Maximos of Blessed memory)
2.  Metropolitan-Archbishops (+Philip of Antiochican Archdiocese is Metropolitan-Archbishop).  This is what the canons speak of as "canonical Metropolitan," whereas a diocesan bishop with the title is an "honorary" Metropolitan canonically speaking.  This is the primate of the provincial Synod, and alone is "canonical Metropolitan," that is primate of provincial synod. 

In "new world" languages such as English and Spanish, "Archbishop" is more common, and this is a consideration for usage (the same consideration for "Archdiocese" vs. "Metropolia" in Slavic jurisdictions)

 

Logged
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #77 on: July 26, 2012, 12:30:44 AM »

Back to Met. Maximos (of blessed memory) story to me:

HAH wanted there to be in America a traditional structure of a provincial (eparchial) Synod of Bishops (with title "Bishop" as originally foreseen in canons).  However, when the American Bishops went overseas, they were treated as being auxiliaries because they did not have the title "Metropolitan" as the prevailing custom is oversees.  So HAH gave them all title of Metropolitan so they were treated as equals by the diocesans overseas.   
Logged
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #78 on: July 26, 2012, 12:35:26 AM »

To answer question from above, can a Metropolitan-Archbishop be called just "Archbishop."  Yes, if that is his choice and fits in with the polity and also the linguistic necessities around him.  But have to be careful about the language.  In Spanish or English maybe but in Greek not unless Holy Synod gave it to him.  Example:  The Patriarch of Jerusalem's title on official website reads differently in English than it does in Greek.  That is because word and cultural equivelency is different in different languages at different periods of time (especially ours). 
Logged
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,124



« Reply #79 on: July 26, 2012, 03:51:44 AM »

Back to Met. Maximos (of blessed memory) story to me:

HAH wanted there to be in America a traditional structure of a provincial (eparchial) Synod of Bishops (with title "Bishop" as originally foreseen in canons).  However, when the American Bishops went overseas, they were treated as being auxiliaries because they did not have the title "Metropolitan" as the prevailing custom is oversees.  So HAH gave them all title of Metropolitan so they were treated as equals by the diocesans overseas.   

If you are referring to the +Maximos who is the former Metropolitan of Pittsburgh, he is alive and resides in a retirement facility, Father.  A different GOAA Pittsburgh area priest visits him daily.  Thankfully, Metropolitan Savas is very respectful of his predecessor. Metropolitan Maximos told me too, a similar story, but didn't tell me what His All Holiness' intentions were.  Frankly, I wish they had gone that route, no one, not even most Orthodox Christians, know what a "Metropolitan" is.
Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
kijabeboy03
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 850

"The glory of God is in man fully alive."


« Reply #80 on: July 26, 2012, 07:43:27 AM »

Where in North America is "archdiocese" used in place of "митрополия-metropolia/metropolitanate" in a Slavic jurisdiction? I know the OCA's Dioceses of Pittsburgh and Washington call themselves "archdioceses" for some reason, but neither is a митрополия...

All of this gets rather tricky.

Even back at Chalcedon they were battling a frequent use of Metropolitan as a titular title.  But it became popular in some places.  Originally the title was that of a Metropolitan-Archbishop, shortened to Metropolitan, referring to the Primate of a Provincial Synod.

We have today in "northern Greek" practice (and new world practice):

1.  Diocesan Bishops with the title Metropolitan, making them Metropolitan-Bishop *(an interesting story on this from Met. Maximos of Blessed memory)
2.  Metropolitan-Archbishops (+Philip of Antiochican Archdiocese is Metropolitan-Archbishop).  This is what the canons speak of as "canonical Metropolitan," whereas a diocesan bishop with the title is an "honorary" Metropolitan canonically speaking.  This is the primate of the provincial Synod, and alone is "canonical Metropolitan," that is primate of provincial synod. 

In "new world" languages such as English and Spanish, "Archbishop" is more common, and this is a consideration for usage (the same consideration for "Archdiocese" vs. "Metropolia" in Slavic jurisdictions)

 


Logged

"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,611



« Reply #81 on: July 26, 2012, 12:11:31 PM »

Where in North America is "archdiocese" used in place of "митрополия-metropolia/metropolitanate" in a Slavic jurisdiction? I know the OCA's Dioceses of Pittsburgh and Washington call themselves "archdioceses" for some reason, but neither is a митрополия...

All of this gets rather tricky.

Even back at Chalcedon they were battling a frequent use of Metropolitan as a titular title.  But it became popular in some places.  Originally the title was that of a Metropolitan-Archbishop, shortened to Metropolitan, referring to the Primate of a Provincial Synod.

We have today in "northern Greek" practice (and new world practice):

1.  Diocesan Bishops with the title Metropolitan, making them Metropolitan-Bishop *(an interesting story on this from Met. Maximos of Blessed memory)
2.  Metropolitan-Archbishops (+Philip of Antiochican Archdiocese is Metropolitan-Archbishop).  This is what the canons speak of as "canonical Metropolitan," whereas a diocesan bishop with the title is an "honorary" Metropolitan canonically speaking.  This is the primate of the provincial Synod, and alone is "canonical Metropolitan," that is primate of provincial synod. 

In "new world" languages such as English and Spanish, "Archbishop" is more common, and this is a consideration for usage (the same consideration for "Archdiocese" vs. "Metropolia" in Slavic jurisdictions)

 



The UOC of USA, for example, uses the terms interchangeably.  See for example, the website (Home tab, then Archdiocese tab):
http://uocofusa.org/


Logged
kijabeboy03
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 850

"The glory of God is in man fully alive."


« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2012, 06:55:45 PM »

It's used twice on the history page, and one of those uses is the "Archdiocese" tab itself :-). As you like though!

Where in North America is "archdiocese" used in place of "митрополия-metropolia/metropolitanate" in a Slavic jurisdiction? I know the OCA's Dioceses of Pittsburgh and Washington call themselves "archdioceses" for some reason, but neither is a митрополия...

All of this gets rather tricky.

Even back at Chalcedon they were battling a frequent use of Metropolitan as a titular title.  But it became popular in some places.  Originally the title was that of a Metropolitan-Archbishop, shortened to Metropolitan, referring to the Primate of a Provincial Synod.

We have today in "northern Greek" practice (and new world practice):

1.  Diocesan Bishops with the title Metropolitan, making them Metropolitan-Bishop *(an interesting story on this from Met. Maximos of Blessed memory)
2.  Metropolitan-Archbishops (+Philip of Antiochican Archdiocese is Metropolitan-Archbishop).  This is what the canons speak of as "canonical Metropolitan," whereas a diocesan bishop with the title is an "honorary" Metropolitan canonically speaking.  This is the primate of the provincial Synod, and alone is "canonical Metropolitan," that is primate of provincial synod. 

In "new world" languages such as English and Spanish, "Archbishop" is more common, and this is a consideration for usage (the same consideration for "Archdiocese" vs. "Metropolia" in Slavic jurisdictions)

 



The UOC of USA, for example, uses the terms interchangeably.  See for example, the website (Home tab, then Archdiocese tab):
http://uocofusa.org/



Logged

"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~
mike
Warned
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,531


« Reply #83 on: September 12, 2012, 04:54:39 AM »

He's been ordained.

http://www.uocofusa.org/news_120911_4.html
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,960


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #84 on: September 12, 2012, 08:59:43 AM »



Axios!
Logged
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.136 seconds with 66 queries.