Author Topic: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos  (Read 3573 times)

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Offline mike

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Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« on: July 16, 2012, 06:55:02 AM »
ISTANBUL. At meetings of the Holy Synod of the Orthodox Church of Constantinople, held on 10 and 11 July, it was decided to establish a new cathedra - Bishop of Skopelos, vicar of Metropolitan Athenagoras of Mexico.
It is to be occupied by Archimandrite Pankraty Dubas, rector of the cathedral of the Ukrainian community in Chicago, reports "Romfeya."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OrthodoxNews/message/16690
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2012, 09:40:05 AM »

He is a wise and humble man. 

Axios!

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2012, 12:37:39 AM »
Wasn't Archbishop Vsevolod (Maidansky) also of Scopelos?

BTW, why isn't the UOCUSA/Diaspora organizing its own eparchy in the region?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 12:53:27 AM by kijabeboy03 »
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2012, 03:35:25 AM »
My guess is that Fr. Pankrati will be organizing an eparchy in Mexico, and perhaps elsewhere in the region, akin to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A, which will similarly be under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, just like the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada is likewise under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and a sister eparchy with the UOC-USA.  Metropolitan Athenagoras of Mexico's role will be similar to Archbishop Demetrios of America's role to the UOC-USA, an Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarch.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 03:36:48 AM by Basil 320 »
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Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2012, 06:15:59 AM »
It's my understanding that the UOCUSA is actually the 'Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA and the Diaspora' - if I'm not mistaken the eparchies in Oceania, South America, and Western Europe are attached to its local synod. Which is why this appointment confuses me - wouldn't it make more sense (Greek nationalism aside) to place Bishop-elect Pankratij under Archbishop Jeremiah (Ferens) down in Curitiba?

My guess is that Fr. Pankrati will be organizing an eparchy in Mexico, and perhaps elsewhere in the region, akin to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A, which will similarly be under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, just like the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada is likewise under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and a sister eparchy with the UOC-USA.  Metropolitan Athenagoras of Mexico's role will be similar to Archbishop Demetrios of America's role to the UOC-USA, an Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarch.
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2012, 06:55:44 AM »
AFAIK there are or used to be several Ukrainian Bishops in regular EP Dioceses. Why can't he be the another one?
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Offline arimethea

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2012, 10:33:39 AM »
It's my understanding that the UOCUSA is actually the 'Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA and the Diaspora' - if I'm not mistaken the eparchies in Oceania, South America, and Western Europe are attached to its local synod. Which is why this appointment confuses me - wouldn't it make more sense (Greek nationalism aside) to place Bishop-elect Pankratij under Archbishop Jeremiah (Ferens) down in Curitiba?

My guess is that Fr. Pankrati will be organizing an eparchy in Mexico, and perhaps elsewhere in the region, akin to the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A, which will similarly be under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, just like the Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada is likewise under the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and a sister eparchy with the UOC-USA.  Metropolitan Athenagoras of Mexico's role will be similar to Archbishop Demetrios of America's role to the UOC-USA, an Exarch of the Ecumenical Patriarch.

I believe he was elected to assist Metropolitan Athenagoras in Mexico, not just to minister to Ukrainians.
Joseph

Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2012, 11:49:39 AM »
IMO the curious thing is that why a Chicago priest is moved several k kilometres to became a bishop.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2012, 11:57:41 AM »

I have heard that he wished to become a bishop. 

The UOCofUSA had three bishops,  However, with the passing of Metropolitan Constantine, we currently have two.

The numbers of the UOCofUSA have diminished over the years, two bishops will suffice to meet the needs of the faithful, and there's no need to elect a third bishop.

Therefore, in order to be ordained as a bishop, Fr. Pankraty had to be open to a move.
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Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2012, 12:05:33 PM »
So why won't he be ordained for the UOC-USA but for the Greek Metropolis of Mexico? Why to move him there?
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Offline pious1

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2012, 03:31:39 PM »
Unfortunately although there may be some Ukrainians located in Mexico and Central America, there are no "Ukrainian" churches. There are parishes under the EP and Archimadrtite Pankratij will be a Bishop directly under the EP administering and tending to the EP faithful in Mexico and Central America. He will not be a bishop of the UOCUSA directly, but rather a bishop under the directive of the EP. Mnohalya Lita and Axios

Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2012, 03:47:32 PM »
I don;t understand why "unfortunately".
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Offline pious1

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2012, 03:52:31 PM »
Unfortunately there are no Ukrainian churches, no Ukrainian parishes.

Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2012, 03:54:20 PM »
IMO it's good EP resigns from creating multiple ethnic jurisdictions on the same territory and gathers parishes of many ethnicities within one diocese.
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Offline pious1

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2012, 04:11:49 PM »
Why?

Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2012, 04:39:09 PM »
One town, one bishop or something like that.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2012, 04:44:06 PM »

Yeah, I remember reading something about that.

However, you have to admit that North America, and to a degree Central and South America are a completely different situation than the rest of the world, when it comes to Orthodoxy.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2012, 04:46:15 PM »
It's good when finally someone starts to fix it, isn't it?
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Offline pious1

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2012, 04:49:53 PM »
Michal,

Do you think the Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs, Russians, Greeks, Etc unite into one church as well?

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2012, 04:50:47 PM »
It's good when finally someone starts to fix it, isn't it?

It's not necessarily broken....and if it isn't broken, why fix it?
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2012, 04:51:46 PM »
Yes but not in the way it should be done.

You can enter a house thought the window but you have doors for that.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2012, 05:02:10 PM »

As I said....neither is the land in the U.S, etc...."like it should be" to fit those canons.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2012, 06:25:40 PM »
Wait, why would the bishop of an island in the Aegean go to Mexico?

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2012, 06:26:35 PM »

You go where you are needed.  ;)
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Gorazd

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2012, 07:22:17 PM »

Yeah, I remember reading something about that.

However, you have to admit that North America, and to a degree Central and South America are a completely different situation than the rest of the world, when it comes to Orthodoxy.



Oh, we do have jurisdiction chaos in Western Europe, too. Lord, have mercy.

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2012, 11:21:34 PM »

You go where you are needed.  ;)

"Skopelos" is an inactive see of the Church of Constantinople and indicates that the bishop assigned to the see, is an auxiliary bishop, while a bishop by ordination, who is directed in his episcopal work by another hierarch, he represents the ruling bishop under whose authority he is.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2012, 10:04:50 AM »

You go where you are needed.  ;)

"Skopelos" is an inactive see of the Church of Constantinople and indicates that the bishop assigned to the see, is an auxiliary bishop, while a bishop by ordination, who is directed in his episcopal work by another hierarch, he represents the ruling bishop under whose authority he is.

It doesn't always mean an 'auxiliary bishop' within the scope of the EP's organizational structure. For example, the hierarchs of the UOC-USA and ACROD have been 'titular' bishops of this or that inactive see within the Church of Constantinople. The late Metropolitan Nicholas of ACROD was technically NOT the Bishop of Johnstown, PA, but rather the Bishop of Amissos under whose omophorion was placed the Carpatho-Russian Diocese its clergy, faithful and property. His predecessor, the late Bishop John, was Bishop of Nyssa. This is so in that Johnstown is geographically within the territory of the GOA's Metropolis of Pittsburgh and the range of ACROD parishes (and those of the UOC-USA) extend into other Metropolises. However, within his diocese such a Bishop has full authority to govern and 'rule' in accordance with the terms of the Tomos establishing said entity. Such bishops are not subordinate to the local Greek Metropolis and its ruling Bishop, but rather are accountable to the Patriarch through his American Exarch - again, not in his capacity as Archbishop of America for the GOA, but in his authority as Exarch of the Ecumenical Throne. I believe that the MP has a similar set-up for its Patriarchal parishes and their Bishop within the United States.

Now, if all of that didn't make your head spin, you get an A+ in Introduction to Byzantine Structures of Authority. Who says the RC's are the only ones who are 'legalistic'?  ;) :D
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 10:06:03 AM by podkarpatska »

Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2012, 05:00:38 PM »
It sounds rather like second-class citizenship unfortunately :-/. (Both having to communicate with the Patriarchate through the local head of the Greek Orthodox Church and the titular sees when Greek ruling bishops are given local sees.) To each their own though!

The patriarchal Russian Orthodox parishes in Canada and the USA are 'representations' (so to speak) of the Moscow Patriarchate to the OCA, and their hierarchs belong to titular sees because they're auxiliaries of the patriarch (not at all ruling bishops) and report directly to him. (The ROCOR situation is another situation entirely given the history there.)


You go where you are needed.  ;)

"Skopelos" is an inactive see of the Church of Constantinople and indicates that the bishop assigned to the see, is an auxiliary bishop, while a bishop by ordination, who is directed in his episcopal work by another hierarch, he represents the ruling bishop under whose authority he is.

It doesn't always mean an 'auxiliary bishop' within the scope of the EP's organizational structure. For example, the hierarchs of the UOC-USA and ACROD have been 'titular' bishops of this or that inactive see within the Church of Constantinople. The late Metropolitan Nicholas of ACROD was technically NOT the Bishop of Johnstown, PA, but rather the Bishop of Amissos under whose omophorion was placed the Carpatho-Russian Diocese its clergy, faithful and property. His predecessor, the late Bishop John, was Bishop of Nyssa. This is so in that Johnstown is geographically within the territory of the GOA's Metropolis of Pittsburgh and the range of ACROD parishes (and those of the UOC-USA) extend into other Metropolises. However, within his diocese such a Bishop has full authority to govern and 'rule' in accordance with the terms of the Tomos establishing said entity. Such bishops are not subordinate to the local Greek Metropolis and its ruling Bishop, but rather are accountable to the Patriarch through his American Exarch - again, not in his capacity as Archbishop of America for the GOA, but in his authority as Exarch of the Ecumenical Throne. I believe that the MP has a similar set-up for its Patriarchal parishes and their Bishop within the United States.

Now, if all of that didn't make your head spin, you get an A+ in Introduction to Byzantine Structures of Authority. Who says the RC's are the only ones who are 'legalistic'?  ;) :D
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2012, 05:10:08 PM »
One town, one bishop or something like that.

Great canon. However, this new bishop is not a diocesan bishop but a vicar or auxiliary bishop.

Offline mike

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2012, 05:14:20 PM »
One town, one bishop or something like that.

Great canon. However, this new bishop is not a diocesan bishop but a vicar or auxiliary bishop.

Metropolitan Athenagoras is da bishop.
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2012, 06:48:06 PM »
It sounds rather like second-class citizenship unfortunately :-/. (Both having to communicate with the Patriarchate through the local head of the Greek Orthodox Church and the titular sees when Greek ruling bishops are given local sees.) To each their own though!

The patriarchal Russian Orthodox parishes in Canada and the USA are 'representations' (so to speak) of the Moscow Patriarchate to the OCA, and their hierarchs belong to titular sees because they're auxiliaries of the patriarch (not at all ruling bishops) and report directly to him. (The ROCOR situation is another situation entirely given the history there.)


You go where you are needed.  ;)

"Skopelos" is an inactive see of the Church of Constantinople and indicates that the bishop assigned to the see, is an auxiliary bishop, while a bishop by ordination, who is directed in his episcopal work by another hierarch, he represents the ruling bishop under whose authority he is.

It doesn't always mean an 'auxiliary bishop' within the scope of the EP's organizational structure. For example, the hierarchs of the UOC-USA and ACROD have been 'titular' bishops of this or that inactive see within the Church of Constantinople. The late Metropolitan Nicholas of ACROD was technically NOT the Bishop of Johnstown, PA, but rather the Bishop of Amissos under whose omophorion was placed the Carpatho-Russian Diocese its clergy, faithful and property. His predecessor, the late Bishop John, was Bishop of Nyssa. This is so in that Johnstown is geographically within the territory of the GOA's Metropolis of Pittsburgh and the range of ACROD parishes (and those of the UOC-USA) extend into other Metropolises. However, within his diocese such a Bishop has full authority to govern and 'rule' in accordance with the terms of the Tomos establishing said entity. Such bishops are not subordinate to the local Greek Metropolis and its ruling Bishop, but rather are accountable to the Patriarch through his American Exarch - again, not in his capacity as Archbishop of America for the GOA, but in his authority as Exarch of the Ecumenical Throne. I believe that the MP has a similar set-up for its Patriarchal parishes and their Bishop within the United States.

Now, if all of that didn't make your head spin, you get an A+ in Introduction to Byzantine Structures of Authority. Who says the RC's are the only ones who are 'legalistic'?  ;) :D

Form over substance....in reality, it works the same way.....In both cases, the sitting Bishop here in the US is the 'ruler' over the parishes under his omophor.

Offline Fr. Deacon Daniel

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2012, 08:08:22 PM »
One town, one bishop or something like that.

Great canon. However, this new bishop is not a diocesan bishop but a vicar or auxiliary bishop.

Metropolitan Athenagoras is da bishop.

Axios! This is truly wonderful and welcome news for the diocese.

It appears the website has not been updated but His Eminence title is now Archbishop ATHENAGORUS.  

Quote
Con gran alegría les informamos, que después de la petición de Su Eminencia el Arzobispo Athenágoras, Su Toda Santidad el Patriarca Ecuménico Bartolomé I, con el Santo y Sagrado  Sínodo del Patriarcado Ecuménico de Constantinopla, reunidos en su sesión sinodal del día martes 10 de Julio de 2012, en la Sede Patriarcal, eligieron al Reverendísimo Archimandrita PANCRATIOS DUBAS, párroco de la Catedral Ucraniana en la Ciudad de Chicago, Estados Unidos de América, como Obispo Auxiliar de Su Eminencia el Arzobispo Athenágoras, con el título de Obispo de Skopelos.

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« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 08:15:17 PM by Fr. Deacon Daniel »
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2012, 12:26:34 AM »




One town, one bishop or something like that.


Great canon. However, this new bishop is not a diocesan bishop but a vicar or auxiliary bishop.


Metropolitan Athenagoras is da bishop.


Axios! This is truly wonderful and welcome news for the diocese.

It appears the website has not been updated but His Eminence title is now Archbishop ATHENAGORUS.  



Quote
Con gran alegría les informamos, que después de la petición de Su Eminencia el Arzobispo Athenágoras, Su Toda Santidad el Patriarca Ecuménico Bartolomé I, con el Santo y Sagrado  Sínodo del Patriarcado Ecuménico de Constantinopla, reunidos en su sesión sinodal del día martes 10 de Julio de 2012, en la Sede Patriarcal, eligieron al Reverendísimo Archimandrita PANCRATIOS DUBAS, párroco de la Catedral Ucraniana en la Ciudad de Chicago, Estados Unidos de América, como Obispo Auxiliar de Su Eminencia el Arzobispo Athenágoras, con el título de Obispo de Skopelos.

Oficina de la Santa Metrópolis de México.
Dado en México, a 15 de Julio de 2012


No, you haven't read the earlier posts.  "Archbishop Athenagoras" is the reference to the ruling bishop of the Holy Metropolis of Central America; it is a reference to Metropolitan Athenagoras of Mexico City and Central America.  (He is an American and served in the Holy Archdiocese of America as Fr. Athenagoras Anesti, prior to his episcopal ordination.)

As noted in the original post, Fr. Pankrati Duban will be assigned to the Titular See if Scopelos, a see of the Church of Constantinople that was de-activated.  Thus, he will not be a ruling bishop, but will assist Metropolitan Athenagoras and serve as the Metropolis' Vicar for Ukrainian Orthodox. Thus, the new bishop will be subordinate to the Metropolitan of Mexico City, serving both as an assistant to Metropolitan Athenagoras and as the Vicar for the Ukrainian Orthodox Christians in Mexico and Central America.
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Offline Fr. Deacon Daniel

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2012, 12:33:38 AM »
Greetings Basil,

I think you misunderstood what I am saying. Metropolitan ATHENAGORUS'S new title is Archbishop ATHENAGORUS. He is my Archbishop. I was not referring to the newly elected auxiliary bishop PANCRATIOS. In other words, the correct title is now Archbishop and not Metropolitan. It is not my place to say what the duties of Bishop PANCRATIOS will be but I can assure you they will not be for Ukrainians only. I am sure bishop PANCRATIOS will be assisting Archbishop ATHENAGORUS throughout His diocese, which is quite large and diverse. His diocese also includes the Islands of the Caribbean, Venezuela, and Columbia. Glory be to God for this wonderful news!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 01:04:22 AM by Fr. Deacon Daniel »
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2012, 01:09:12 AM »
Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 01:12:29 AM by Basil 320 »
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Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2012, 01:15:27 AM »
I thought there were only a handful of actual archbishops in the Greek-style churches? (The Archbishops of Cyprus, Athens, Tirana, Crete, New York...)

Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2012, 01:22:25 AM »
I thought there were only a handful of actual archbishops in the Greek-style churches? (The Archbishops of Cyprus, Athens, Tirana, Crete, New York...)

Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.

"Thyateira and Great Britain," and "Australia," too, Father.  I'm guessing it has something to do with having a auxiliary bishop, but that wouldn't explain the Metropolitan of Chicago, who has an auxiliary bishop.  Maybe someone else familiar with Greek practice can help here.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 01:22:54 AM by Basil 320 »
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Offline Fr. Deacon Daniel

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2012, 01:24:26 AM »
It is the same structure as the GOA. Metropolitano is Metropolitan in Spanish. Archbishop is a honorary title which means Primate. This is why Archbishop ATHENAGORUS heads the Episcopal Assembly for South America. I'm not trying to split hairs but it is proper to say Archbishop now. Just as it is proper to honor Archbishop Demetrios of the GOA with His proper title.


Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.

« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 01:34:04 AM by Fr. Deacon Daniel »
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Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2012, 01:26:15 AM »
I'm neither a monk nor a clergyman :-). Thanks anyways!

Perhaps it an honor attached to the specific hierarchs? (Do the Greeks have such a system or is that purely a northern Slav/OCA thing?)

I thought there were only a handful of actual archbishops in the Greek-style churches? (The Archbishops of Cyprus, Athens, Tirana, Crete, New York...)

Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.

"Thyateira and Great Britain," and "Australia," too, Father.  I'm guessing it has something to do with having a auxiliary bishop, but that wouldn't explain the Metropolitan of Chicago, who has an auxiliary bishop.  Maybe someone else familiar with Greek practice can help here.
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2012, 01:28:37 AM »
His archdiocese isn't divided into metropolises, so what synod does he head that he is considered a primate? (The episcopal assemblies are all well and good, but they're not [yet] synods.)

It is the same structure as the GOA. Metropolitano is Metropolitan in Spanish. Archbishop is a honorary title which means Primate. This is why Archbishop ATHENAGORUS heads the Episcopal Assembly for Central and South America. I'm not trying to split hairs but it is proper to say Archbishop now. Just as it is proper to honor Archbishop Demetrios of the GOA with His proper title.


Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.


"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline Fr. Deacon Daniel

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2012, 01:33:24 AM »
http://byztex.blogspot.com/2011/11/south-american-episcopal-assembly-meets.html

In accordance with a decision by the IV Pan-Orthodox Preconciliar Conference held in Chambesy, Switzerland, from November 2-4, 2011, the 2nd Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of South America was held in Buenos Aires...

Quote inserted to make it compatible with our link posting policy - MK.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 03:37:29 PM by Michał Kalina »
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2012, 03:49:38 AM »
It is the same structure as the GOA. Metropolitano is Metropolitan in Spanish. Archbishop is a honorary title which means Primate. This is why Archbishop ATHENAGORUS heads the Episcopal Assembly for South America. I'm not trying to split hairs but it is proper to say Archbishop now. Just as it is proper to honor Archbishop Demetrios of the GOA with His proper title.


Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.



I don't know, but I'll add this to our discusion, after the GOAA bishops were elevated to the dignity of "metropolitan," due to the new Constitutional Charter of 2003, the GOAA parishes were advised that the hierarch of our new metropolis', is to be addressed liturgically as "Our Archbishop..."  The metropolitans are to be referred to as "Our Archbishop"  at the appropriate petition or place in the Divine Services of the Church.  Huh, ?
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Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2012, 07:50:38 AM »
I see Metropolitan Tarasius is referred to as an "archbishop" when he is just a metropolitan (http://www.ec-patr.org/hierarchs/show.php?lang=gr&id=57), so I'm not sure what I'm supposed to get from this :-).

And looking at the Constantinople Patriarchate's website (should have done this before now!) Metropolitan Athenagoras is also referenced as a metropolitan: http://www.ec-patr.org/hierarchs/show.php?lang=gr&id=33

http://byztex.blogspot.com/2011/11/south-american-episcopal-assembly-meets.html
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 07:51:24 AM by kijabeboy03 »
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

Offline kijabeboy03

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2012, 07:54:24 AM »
I'd always assumed it was an honor thing within a metropolitan's diocese - the Greeks' hierarch in Ethiopia was commemorated as an "archbishop" at the services as well, though he was only a metropolitan.

It is the same structure as the GOA. Metropolitano is Metropolitan in Spanish. Archbishop is a honorary title which means Primate. This is why Archbishop ATHENAGORUS heads the Episcopal Assembly for South America. I'm not trying to split hairs but it is proper to say Archbishop now. Just as it is proper to honor Archbishop Demetrios of the GOA with His proper title.


Oh, I apologize, Father. You're correct, I misunderstood your post, which is an interesting change.  I wonder though, if they're not just using "archbishop" in Spanish, as the title "metropolitan" isn't understood, outside of Orthodox circles, even though the Pope of Rome is a metropolitan, too.



I don't know, but I'll add this to our discusion, after the GOAA bishops were elevated to the dignity of "metropolitan," due to the new Constitutional Charter of 2003, the GOAA parishes were advised that the hierarch of our new metropolis', is to be addressed liturgically as "Our Archbishop..."  The metropolitans are to be referred to as "Our Archbishop"  at the appropriate petition or place in the Divine Services of the Church.  Huh, ?
"This is the Apostolic Faith, the Orthodox Faith, and the Faith of the Fathers. Having this wonderful treasure, let us preserve it, let us keep it, and let us also use it in such a way that this treasure becomes the victory of Christ in us and in His Church." ~ St. Severus of Antioch ~

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Re: Ukrainian cathedral rector to be Bishop of Skopelos
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2012, 10:35:20 AM »

Well, all I can say is that I truly appreciate being able to call our Metropolitan, Archbishop, or Bishop "Vladyko"....and not worry about offending either one!

;D
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