Author Topic: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy  (Read 31297 times)

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Offline Sean

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From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« on: November 21, 2004, 06:10:40 PM »
Are there any other converts to Orthodoxy from Mormonism? I've been Orthodox for thirteen years and I've only met one or two.
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Offline Isaac

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Re:From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2004, 09:10:46 PM »
Sean,

My wife was nearly a casualty to mormonism before we met... and God eventually guided us into the saving enclosure of the Orthodox Catholic Church.


Offline gregory2

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Re:From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2004, 11:13:02 PM »
Why are mormons so nice though?  Every time I meet one, I feel like they exude love more than I do.
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Offline sinjinsmythe

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Re:From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2004, 11:21:35 PM »
Why are mormons so nice though?  Every time I meet one, I feel like they exude love more than I do.

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Offline J

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Re:From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2004, 12:01:44 AM »
Most of the Mormons I've met are extremely upright people.  I've also met Muslims I respect greatly.  That doesn't mean I believe what they do when it comes to what is Holy and True.  I find that Mormons have strong family values and a strong sense of community, but when it comes to theology, it's swiss cheese as far as I'm concerned.  In any case, I try to avoid theological discussions with them (firstly because I'm a fool who tends to think he can think deep like Socrates, secondly because you try to avoid that thing in the military in general, to avoid conflicts and EO violations).

Offline Sabbas

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2004, 11:54:34 PM »
I've known several mormons and they certainly weren't all exuding love and 'niceness,' though I see where you are coming from. One I knew was very affable but extremely serious and disciplined. Anyway I know one gentleman who was originally baptized in the Reformed Mormon church early in life and just a year ago was rebaptized into the Orthodox Church. I don't think he was ever a serious Mormon though, and to my knowledge Reformed Mormonism isn't really Mormonism anyway. Just thought I'd tell what I know. I would think it would be quite a radical shift for you to become an Orthodox Christian.
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Offline Marjorie

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2004, 07:45:37 PM »
Mormons in my experience tend to be very wholesome and saccharinely sweet, but they also tend to be arrogant and self-righteous. Obviously these are generalizations on both good and bad points. The biggest problem with Mormonism, I think, is a certain lack of awe in everything. Have you seen pictures of "celestial rooms" in Temples? They're supposed to be the Holies of Holies, and they look like tacky hotel rooms.

But I'll stop because I have more respect for most every religion than I have for Mormonism... that's personal, though.

I'd be interested in hearing personal stories of conversions to Orthodoxy from Mormonism, as Mormonism has long been an intellectual interest of mine.

Marjorie
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Offline klnash77

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2005, 05:35:08 PM »

Hi Sean!

I was raised Mormon, and I'm currently thinking about converting to Orthodoxy.
It's a difficult decision b/c my Mother's family is fundamental mormon, and my
father's family is non-denominational (but leans Protestant). I'm just trying
to find a religion that is not "pop-culture" and changing with whatever will attract whomever (get my
drift?)
Most of the churches that I have been going to are very "modern" with a lot of teaching that I don't
understand. They change their stance of issues every other week...
When I went to the Orthodox Church it was different, but I have been studying the teachings and it
makes a lot more sense that most of the religions that I have looked in to. And I really like the people
that attend as well. I get the same sense of community that I did in the Mormon church! More probably,
b/c as strict as they are there are a LOT of hypocrits!

Any suggestions on how to cope with the family if I decide to convert?!
I'm sure this topic come up a LOT!
But i like the Church and the teachings of Orthodoxy.

God bless.

KLN

Offline jmbejdl

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2005, 04:17:26 AM »
klnash77,

It's good to see you're considering Orthodoxy and I pray that you find the truth in the Church. I think quite a lot of us converts from Protestant backgrounds have problems with our families when we convert. In my case this was only with my mother, who is extremely serious about her Lutheran religion - she even got her own mother to convert from Roman Catholicism, so she was hardly pleased by my decision.

It's hard to offer advice about what to do, as it really depends on the attitude of your family. In my case, I just quietly converted without making a big deal out of it and only talk to my mother about my faith if she brings the subject up. That seems to work - I even think she has a better understanding of Orthodoxy now as she no longer seems to think it's just Catholicism without the Pope. Recently she's even been telling me of the more Catholic beliefs of Luther and how his initial attempt to reform Catholicism was made more and more Protestant by his successors. I already knew this, but it's amazing to hear her admit as much.

Of course, things might be more difficult with your Mormon family, believing that the entire Church was apostate, as they do, rather than just in need of reform. My advice would be to just try and avoid confrontation with your family and pray that they will at least accept your decision. You never know, if you become Orthodox and live the faith providing a good example to them, they may even join you - stranger things have happened.

In Christ,

James
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Offline amnesiac99

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2005, 02:45:23 PM »
His Grace, Bishop +MARK (newly elected hierarch of the Antiochian Archdiocese) was raised in a family in which his mother was Roman Catholic, but his father belonged to a group called the Reorganized Latter-Day Saints. This group has puzzled me. My fiancee is from this church, and is currently considering conversion to the Holy Orthodox Church. They are not quite as "out there" as are the official Mormons: they reject Mormon teaching on the godhead, on eschatology, on polygamy, and on down the list. They strike me as much closer to mainstream, low-church protestants than Mormon, yet the Orthodox Church regards them as a cult group right along with the Mormons.

Anyway, its a little off topic, but I thought the bit about His Grace was interesting. :)
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Offline Thomas

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2005, 10:40:59 PM »
As a former Mormon who left the LDS Church some 18 years ago, I can speak knowledgeably as to why the LDS and the RLDS church are considered to be non-Christian.

While it is true that the RLDS are closer to the low church protestants than the LDS church is.  They still both hold as common the concepts that the Book of Mormon is Scripture, They both hold that the Doctrine and Covenants is scripture holding the prophetic teachings and visions of their Prophet leaders. They hold to the leader of their church is a Prophet of God.  They both hold that Joseph Smith Jr was a True Prophet and that all other religous leaders are false or deluded. They both hold as a fact that the Apostolic Church of the First Century fell into error and due to the fall of the True Christian Church and there had to be a restoration. They both hold that the  restoration of the "True Church" came from visions given to their First prophet Joseph Smith, Jr.  They both hold that John the Baptist returned and restored and ordained Joseph Smith to the Aaronic Priesthood.  They both hold and Believe that God THe Father appeared to Joseph Smith to tell him that all churches had fallen and that Jesus Christ personally sent Peter, James, and John to ordain Joseph Smith Jr to the Melchizadek Priesthood, thus restoring the priesthood of God back to the world. They claim that all other Christian churches are without grace and that they are the only "true" Church.

In view of all of this  the Holy Orthodox Church views them as a non-trinitarian Church. We do not recognize either the Book of Mormon or the Doctrine and Covenants  as scripture and  as we do not see the fall of the "True Chuch of God as having occurred, the form, order, and reason for  both LDS and RLDS actions such as Baptism, oridination, etc are false and are not accepted in any form or action by the Orthodox Church. If a Mormon enters the Orthodox directly from the LDS or RLDS Church ( i.e. not having gone to the Roman catholic or Trinitarian  Protestant Churches  between  leaving Mormonsim and Orthodoxy) they would be treated as an unbaptized person. ---I will leave  Baptism versus Chrismation of those coming from the RC or Protestant churches to the Bishops of the various jurisdiction to determine policy.--- I hope this helps clarify the why.

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Offline Arystarcus

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2005, 01:04:19 AM »
Thomas,

I know little to nothing about any kind of Mormonism, reformed or otherwise and I thank you for your informative post.

In Christ,
Aaron

Offline Cosmoline

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2005, 03:17:21 PM »
I've noticed a difference in outlook on Mormons depending on where people grew up.  Many folks back east and overseas view the LDS as a cult.  Most of the Mormons they know are likely to be recent converts.   I grew up in Oregon, so the Mormons I went to school with were often second and third generation.  They were no more bright and sunny than anyone else.  From my POV, the LDS church looks more like any other Protestant church.  Full of wild ideas, yes.  But aren't they all.
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Offline Milliardo

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Re:From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2005, 09:02:48 PM »
Why are mormons so nice though? Every time I meet one, I feel like they exude love more than I do.

I'm not sure if it's a genuine sign of love, though to be charitable to them, I would say that it must; or rather, it should. However, it's also no secret that such a show is merely for proselytizing purposes.

Offline Seeker

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2005, 01:16:09 AM »
I realize this is an old thread, but it seems fitting to post my first post here. I'm a member of the Mormon church, more correctly called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have struggled with my faith there for years. I'm looking at the Orthodox church for my new spiritual home. I have visited a number of times over the past few years, and now stepping it up and getting serious about it. I just feel drawn to it. I've looked at Catholicism too, but for my own reasons I don't see it as the place for me. I have yet to approach anyone at church about joining, and for the most part no one seems to know I'm even there.

Offline Elisha

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2005, 02:04:58 AM »
I realize this is an old thread, but it seems fitting to post my first post here. I'm a member of the Mormon church, more correctly called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have struggled with my faith there for years. I'm looking at the Orthodox church for my new spiritual home. I have visited a number of times over the past few years, and now stepping it up and getting serious about it. I just feel drawn to it. I've looked at Catholicism too, but for my own reasons I don't see it as the place for me. I have yet to approach anyone at church about joining, and for the most part no one seems to know I'm even there.

Well, welcome to this board and I wish you well in your search.  :)

Offline Fr. David

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2005, 07:43:53 AM »
Seeker,

Welcome!

Have you spoken to the priest at the church you're attending?  Staying for coffee hour (I assume your church does this after Sunday liturgy) is a great way to mingle, get to know folks.

God bless in your journey!

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Offline The young fogey

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2005, 08:47:52 AM »

While it is true that the RLDS are closer to the low church protestants than the LDS church is.  They still both hold as common the concepts that the Book of Mormon is Scripture, They both hold that the Doctrine and Covenants is scripture holding the prophetic teachings and visions of their Prophet leaders. They hold to the leader of their church is a Prophet of God.  They both hold that Joseph Smith Jr was a True Prophet and that all other religous leaders are false or deluded. They both hold as a fact that the Apostolic Church of the First Century fell into error and due to the fall of the True Christian Church and there had to be a restoration. They both hold that the  restoration of the "True Church" came from visions given to their First prophet Joseph Smith, Jr.  They both hold that John the Baptist returned and restored and ordained Joseph Smith to the Aaronic Priesthood.  They both hold and Believe that God THe Father appeared to Joseph Smith to tell him that all churches had fallen and that Jesus Christ personally sent Peter, James, and John to ordain Joseph Smith Jr to the Melchizadek Priesthood, thus restoring the priesthood of God back to the world. They claim that all other Christian churches are without grace and that they are the only "true" Church.

ISTM this shows what I thought about the RLDS before reading this - that their beliefs are heretical but - unlike the Mormons - they are still Christians.

The RLDS are like LDS 1.0: Smith, whom I believe started out as a Presbyterian (like the founder of another non-Christian faith, Sun Myung Moon), started out after writing (erm, translating the golden plates written in hieroglyphics with his magic glasses) the Book of Mormon interpreting it in a way that's still Christian. This is what the RLDS believe today.

James' description essentially matches all Protestant churches except for rejecting sola scriptura/accepting the Book of Mormon as scripture and those mystical ordinations to the Old Testament priesthoods. (Basically they all believe that somehow the church became hopelessly corrupt - if that's true then Jesus was lying at the end of Matthew when he said 'I am with you always' - and their founder restored it.) Their exclusivity and veneration of their founder are far from unique - confessional Lutherans like in the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod are similar. But I don't see a denial of the Trinity in it.

Smith later changed his mind and became a polytheist (which Mormons still are, even though they hide it in Christian-sounding language) and polygamist (which orthodox Mormons used to be but aren't anymore but some schismatic groups - the Mormons' Old Believers and True Believer sects? -  in the American Southwest and northern Mexico still are). Smith helped himself to other men's wives, which helped get him shot and killed.

As has been mentioned, Mormons have a history of changing their minds like that through strategically valuable 'revelations' to get themselves out of fixes - like when they realised polygamy was wrong just in time for Utah to be admitted to the Union as a state or about 80 years later that black men can be full-fledged members (in the priesthood that white Mormon men already belonged to) after all.

Like I imagine a lot of people did, I grew up mistakenly thinking the Mormons were just another conservative Protestant church, an image I think they cultivate, which is easy for them because that's the culture they originally came from - they blend in.

They're a mix of 19th-century Protestantism, American Indian legends and Smith's imagination - the Muslims of the West!

(As I like to say, Islam is the Mormonism of Orthodoxy, an offshoot mixed with other things and no longer Christian.)

Smith's own family/descendants didn't go along with Smith's apostasy from Christianity and sided with the RLDS - a federal court upheld their claim that the RLDS are the original church Smith founded!  AFAIK until recently when the line died out, the Smiths still ran it. They didn't follow Brigham Young to Utah and stayed put in lovely Independence, Mo.* where the RLDS are headquartered today.

*Where Mormons believe the Second Coming will happen!

P.S. I see from the other thread that you've got Mormon teachings covered. And I Googled and found what I remember: that the RLDS now call themselves the Community of Christ though their teachings remain the same (Protestants who accept the Book of Mormon).
« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 11:42:27 AM by The young fogey »
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Offline germanus

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2005, 02:01:03 PM »
My wife was raised a J.W. and I feared she would be disaccociated when we were married, until I met her family...By God's grace we found some middle ground and get along pretty well!
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Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2009, 04:29:52 AM »
Bumping an ancient thread  ;D

I was born Nth generation Mormon (my ancestors were pioneers) and was just baptized Orthodox in March.

Orthodoxy actually is what Mormonism tries to be.  Authority and ritual and obedience and all the good things emphasized by the Orthodox church are also important in Mormonism.  The difference of course is that in Mormonism the rituals and the claims to authority are completely invented. 

It really is a message tailored for Protestants who have become worn out and jaded from too many revivals.  It makes a very big deal about authority and where churches derive it (Protestant churches of course have none.)  Being a message intended for other Protestants though it doesn't go into great detail about why Catholicism is no longer God's church.  To a New Englander this is a foregone conclusion and nothing more on the subject needs to be said.

Orthodoxy and it's claims to legitimacy never ever comes up though.  Orthodoxy?  What's that?


I didn't leave the Mormon church on doctrinal grounds though.  What I can't stand about it is how commercial it is.  Mormons copyright their hymns, they have a standardized letterhead and typeface (trajan) and they have professional PR people to help them tailor their image and their message (right now they are trying to make themselves as "mainstream" Christian as possible--why is anyone's guess) and they promote mainly successful businessmen into the leadership.  I've known a few of them.  They're not the most christlike people and don't have any special religious training, but they do know how to make money.  They are a corporation in almost every respect.

Culturally I think the Mormon church is having an identity crisis.  Their PR people keep changing stuff around and with every change in direction a few people (like me) get shaken loose.


Anyway, I'm very glad to have found the right church this time.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 04:31:27 AM by Clancy Boy »

Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2009, 07:54:55 AM »
Bumping an ancient thread  ;D

I was born Nth generation Mormon (my ancestors were pioneers) and was just baptized Orthodox in March.

Orthodoxy actually is what Mormonism tries to be.  Authority and ritual and obedience and all the good things emphasized by the Orthodox church are also important in Mormonism.  The difference of course is that in Mormonism the rituals and the claims to authority are completely invented. 

It really is a message tailored for Protestants who have become worn out and jaded from too many revivals.  It makes a very big deal about authority and where churches derive it (Protestant churches of course have none.)  Being a message intended for other Protestants though it doesn't go into great detail about why Catholicism is no longer God's church.  To a New Englander this is a foregone conclusion and nothing more on the subject needs to be said.

Orthodoxy and it's claims to legitimacy never ever comes up though.  Orthodoxy?  What's that?


I didn't leave the Mormon church on doctrinal grounds though.  What I can't stand about it is how commercial it is.  Mormons copyright their hymns, they have a standardized letterhead and typeface (trajan) and they have professional PR people to help them tailor their image and their message (right now they are trying to make themselves as "mainstream" Christian as possible--why is anyone's guess) and they promote mainly successful businessmen into the leadership.  I've known a few of them.  They're not the most christlike people and don't have any special religious training, but they do know how to make money.  They are a corporation in almost every respect.

Culturally I think the Mormon church is having an identity crisis.  Their PR people keep changing stuff around and with every change in direction a few people (like me) get shaken loose.


Anyway, I'm very glad to have found the right church this time.

We went to Salt Lake City this last summer: My 11 year old said "Baba, they use the same words, but they don't mean the same."  My 10 year old asked, looking at the locked doors and veiled windows of the temple "Baba, what are they hiding?"  Indeed.

We went this fall to Carthage and Nauvoo.  When we saw the "Joseph Smith Jr." video, my sons asked "He seems like a nice guy."  I told them that is why we are warned that even if an angel of light brings another Gospel, not to listen.  Evil often wears a pleasant face, does kind actions and has impeccable manners while it mixes truth with falsehood.  Only a little poison in a cake will kill you.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2009, 07:55:35 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2009, 08:51:58 AM »
As has been mentioned, Mormons have a history of changing their minds like that through strategically valuable 'revelations' to get themselves out of fixes - like when they realised polygamy was wrong just in time for Utah to be admitted to the Union as a state or about 80 years later that black men can be full-fledged members (in the priesthood that white Mormon men already belonged to) after all.

Actually, Joseph Smith himself did ordain a couple of Black men as priests. Later, Brigham Young introduced the ban, which was then reversed in the late 1970s.
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Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2009, 09:21:29 PM »
We went to Salt Lake City this last summer: My 11 year old said "Baba, they use the same words, but they don't mean the same."  My 10 year old asked, looking at the locked doors and veiled windows of the temple "Baba, what are they hiding?"  Indeed.

We went this fall to Carthage and Nauvoo.  When we saw the "Joseph Smith Jr." video, my sons asked "He seems like a nice guy."  I told them that is why we are warned that even if an angel of light brings another Gospel, not to listen.  Evil often wears a pleasant face, does kind actions and has impeccable manners while it mixes truth with falsehood.  Only a little poison in a cake will kill you.

There's not even any need to get tied up in doctrinal technicalities.  Like Christ said, its by fruit that you know what something is really like.  Mormonism is absolutely soulless.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2009, 09:28:36 PM »
Mormonism is absolutely soulless.

Why? Because of the use of water in communion?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2009, 09:33:23 PM »
Mormonism is absolutely soulless.

Why? Because of the use of water in communion?

 ???

Because it doesn't have the Holy Spirit.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2009, 10:23:05 PM »
Mormonism is absolutely soulless.

Why? Because of the use of water in communion?

 ???

Because it doesn't have the Holy Spirit.

Well, wine is symbolic of the Holy Spirit, so the lack of wine in the LDS communion might be indicative of your point. ;D
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
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Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2009, 10:27:28 PM »
Mormonism is absolutely soulless.

Why? Because of the use of water in communion?

 ???

Because it doesn't have the Holy Spirit.

Well, wine is symbolic of the Holy Spirit, so the lack of wine in the LDS communion might be indicative of your point. ;D

They don't take the sacraments all that seriously, no.

It's really upsetting seeing communion prepared by a 16-year-old kid wearing a South Park tie.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2009, 11:00:20 PM »
We went to Salt Lake City this last summer: My 11 year old said "Baba, they use the same words, but they don't mean the same."  My 10 year old asked, looking at the locked doors and veiled windows of the temple "Baba, what are they hiding?"  Indeed.

We went this fall to Carthage and Nauvoo.  When we saw the "Joseph Smith Jr." video, my sons asked "He seems like a nice guy."  I told them that is why we are warned that even if an angel of light brings another Gospel, not to listen.  Evil often wears a pleasant face, does kind actions and has impeccable manners while it mixes truth with falsehood.  Only a little poison in a cake will kill you.

There's not even any need to get tied up in doctrinal technicalities.  Like Christ said, its by fruit that you know what something is really like.  Mormonism is absolutely soulless.

I see situations like the polygamy compound in Texas and think about how J.S.'s damnation is compounding.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline jnorm888

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2009, 12:12:30 AM »
"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/

Offline deusveritasest

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Re:From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2009, 01:19:47 AM »

but when it comes to theology, it's swiss cheese as far as I'm concerned.

That's a really great image for the faith of the heterodox.  ;)

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2009, 09:27:44 AM »
It has now been over 20 years that  my family left Mormonism on our journey to Orthodoxy, yet oddly enough , yesterday a member of the local LDS church came to my home to ask if he could see my daughter who was age 5 when we left the LDS Church and is now 26.  She had not been baptized as an LDS but was later given a true Trinitarian Baptism as we became Orthodox. She is still some 20+ years later on their rolls as a member apparrently.  They came by to "Homevisit" her. It was really odd because we have moved 7 times and been in two different cities since we left the LDS Church  and she has been out of our home form over 5years living in Ohio.

What amazed me is how efficient their methods are of keeping track of members who have left their church down to a child who was not even baptized. Its kind of scary isn't it?

Thomas
Your brother in Christ ,
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2009, 10:40:34 AM »
It has now been over 20 years that  my family left Mormonism on our journey to Orthodoxy, yet oddly enough , yesterday a member of the local LDS church came to my home to ask if he could see my daughter who was age 5 when we left the LDS Church and is now 26.  She had not been baptized as an LDS but was later given a true Trinitarian Baptism as we became Orthodox. She is still some 20+ years later on their rolls as a member apparrently.  They came by to "Homevisit" her. It was really odd because we have moved 7 times and been in two different cities since we left the LDS Church  and she has been out of our home form over 5years living in Ohio.

What amazed me is how efficient their methods are of keeping track of members who have left their church down to a child who was not even baptized. Its kind of scary isn't it?

Thomas

Yes, it is.  And as we know, death doesn't even keep you safe from them.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline jnorm888

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2009, 11:42:52 AM »
It has now been over 20 years that  my family left Mormonism on our journey to Orthodoxy, yet oddly enough , yesterday a member of the local LDS church came to my home to ask if he could see my daughter who was age 5 when we left the LDS Church and is now 26.  She had not been baptized as an LDS but was later given a true Trinitarian Baptism as we became Orthodox. She is still some 20+ years later on their rolls as a member apparrently.  They came by to "Homevisit" her. It was really odd because we have moved 7 times and been in two different cities since we left the LDS Church  and she has been out of our home form over 5years living in Ohio.

What amazed me is how efficient their methods are of keeping track of members who have left their church down to a child who was not even baptized. Its kind of scary isn't it?

Thomas

A lovely Mormon family has been trying to convert me through e-mail. I guess they found me through my blog or something. I tried to tell them in so many ways I wasn't interested......I stopped responding to them, but I plan on picking it back up once I have more time on my hands. We pretty much argued about alot of things. I told him he offended me by saying that the church was destroyed after Saint John died and that it had to be restored around 1830 in North America. He kepted ignoring most of what I said, and he always tried to get me to read the book of Mormon. That was pretty much his main focus.......getting me to read the book of Mormon.





Jnorm888
"loving one's enemies does not mean loving wickedness, ungodliness, adultery, or theft. Rather, it means loving the theif, the ungodly, and the adulterer." Clement of Alexandria 195 A.D.

http://ancientchristiandefender.blogspot.com/

Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2009, 12:29:17 PM »
It has now been over 20 years that  my family left Mormonism on our journey to Orthodoxy, yet oddly enough , yesterday a member of the local LDS church came to my home to ask if he could see my daughter who was age 5 when we left the LDS Church and is now 26.  She had not been baptized as an LDS but was later given a true Trinitarian Baptism as we became Orthodox. She is still some 20+ years later on their rolls as a member apparrently.  They came by to "Homevisit" her. It was really odd because we have moved 7 times and been in two different cities since we left the LDS Church  and she has been out of our home form over 5years living in Ohio.

What amazed me is how efficient their methods are of keeping track of members who have left their church down to a child who was not even baptized. Its kind of scary isn't it?

Thomas

A lovely Mormon family has been trying to convert me through e-mail. I guess they found me through my blog or something. I tried to tell them in so many ways I wasn't interested......I stopped responding to them, but I plan on picking it back up once I have more time on my hands. We pretty much argued about alot of things. I told him he offended me by saying that the church was destroyed after Saint John died and that it had to be restored around 1830 in North America. He kepted ignoring most of what I said, and he always tried to get me to read the book of Mormon. That was pretty much his main focus.......getting me to read the book of Mormon.





Jnorm888

Yes, odd thing as my readiing of the BoM just further confirmed the sham.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2009, 10:48:16 PM »
He kept ignoring most of what I said, and he always tried to get me to read the book of Mormon. That was pretty much his main focus.......getting me to read the book of Mormon.

That's what we were always taught to do.  Don't argue, just get them to read.  Specifically you're supposed to read the part that tells you to pray about it.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2009, 10:54:26 PM »
He kept ignoring most of what I said, and he always tried to get me to read the book of Mormon. That was pretty much his main focus.......getting me to read the book of Mormon.

That's what we were always taught to do.  Don't argue, just get them to read.  Specifically you're supposed to read the part that tells you to pray about it.

There's something strangely "warm" about Mormonism, a weird sense of bypassing the head and going straight for the emotions. I think it's connected to the Mormon belief that "family is forever". Comforting, I suppose, but kind of claustrophobicly constricting simultaneously.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2009, 11:07:24 PM »
PBS recently did an excellent job on The Mormons. You can watch the entire documentary online here: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2009, 12:46:14 AM »
PBS recently did an excellent job on The Mormons. You can watch the entire documentary online here: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/

Yeah I saw that.  I think it dignifies them way more than they deserve.

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2009, 12:53:35 AM »
PBS recently did an excellent job on The Mormons. You can watch the entire documentary online here: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/

Yeah I saw that.  I think it dignifies them way more than they deserve.

Yes, but it's a good primer for those who are completely uneducated about the LDS.
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2009, 12:59:38 AM »
PBS recently did an excellent job on The Mormons. You can watch the entire documentary online here: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/

Yeah I saw that.  I think it dignifies them way more than they deserve.

Yes, but it's a good primer for those who are completely uneducated about the LDS.

You can see this short cartoon first, to be educated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_aM90lAGh8
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Elisha

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2009, 03:19:03 AM »
PBS recently did an excellent job on The Mormons. You can watch the entire documentary online here: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/

Yeah I saw that.  I think it dignifies them way more than they deserve.

Yes, but it's a good primer for those who are completely uneducated about the LDS.

You can see this short cartoon first, to be educated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_aM90lAGh8

I knew that would be one youtube - it's been 20 years since I've seen that.

Offline Marat

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2009, 04:34:50 PM »
PBS recently did an excellent job on The Mormons. You can watch the entire documentary online here: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/

Yeah I saw that.  I think it dignifies them way more than they deserve.

Yes, but it's a good primer for those who are completely uneducated about the LDS.


You can see this short cartoon first, to be educated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_aM90lAGh8

I hate that clip. If you want to reach out to someone who is LDS, that video is the last thing to show them. It is not presented in a spirit of love but instead is a snide presentation intended to embarrass or scandalize. It isn't even entirely accurate. I understand someone wanting to share the truth with members of the LDS church. I just wish it would be done with a loving heart. Better still, live a life of faith in such a way that attracts people to the truth for themselves.

Offline SDMPNS

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2009, 05:54:40 PM »
Joseph Smith said he had a papyrus which was written by Abraham which he then translated.It is part of the Mormon scriptures..The church thought the papyrus was lost during the Chicago fire but it was found in NYC recenttly..We can now translate egyptian hyroglyphics and the papyrus has nothing to do with Abraham...its a burial rite...The Book of Breathings..

Mormons believe that many of the native americans ancestors came from Israel. A mormon scientist did DNA testing and native americans come from Mongolia.They came over the Bering Strait..The mormon scientist is no longer amormon.

In Doctrines and Covenants a passage of scripture talks about "A council of the Gods!". They also believe that their god {heavenly father} has a wife who is agoddess {heavenly mother} and they have intercourse and make spirit babies and who come to whatever planet that god is ruling..

its all very odd...and NOT CHRISTIAN !

Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2009, 06:49:55 PM »
PBS recently did an excellent job on The Mormons. You can watch the entire documentary online here: http://www.pbs.org/mormons/

Yeah I saw that.  I think it dignifies them way more than they deserve.

Yes, but it's a good primer for those who are completely uneducated about the LDS.


You can see this short cartoon first, to be educated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_aM90lAGh8

I hate that clip. If you want to reach out to someone who is LDS, that video is the last thing to show them. It is not presented in a spirit of love but instead is a snide presentation intended to embarrass or scandalize. It isn't even entirely accurate. I understand someone wanting to share the truth with members of the LDS church. I just wish it would be done with a loving heart. Better still, live a life of faith in such a way that attracts people to the truth for themselves.

I didn't recommend it to Mormons.  I'm sure they won't care for it.  There is a you tube somewhere where someone confronts the Mormon missionaries tagged onto it.

I recommend it to non-Mormons, so as not to be swayed by those smiling faces.  Some think Mormons are just Methodists with with some addtional books, and the Mormons have cultivated this FALSE image.

It is in fact quite accurate. What do you find inaccurate in it?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Marat

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2009, 07:07:44 PM »
It is from the God Makers film, which has been critiqued here.

http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/

Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #45 on: June 11, 2009, 08:01:40 PM »
It is from the God Makers film, which has been critiqued here.

http://www.fairlds.org/The_God_Makers/

Just some spot checking from your MORMON apology:
Quote
15. Joseph Smith went to prison because of polygamv (173:19).
 Joseph Smith was arrested for inciting riots and this charge was changed to treason just prior to his death. A completely separate earlier pre-trial hearing resulted in the trial for adultery being postponed.
 
The riot was the mob that destroyed the Nauhvoo Expositer Press. The Press was founded by ex-Mormons who denounced the plural marriage dogma (it wasn't disseminated throughout the Mormons at the time), some of which claimed that J.S. had attempted to seduce their wives.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo_Expositor
Quote
The Prophet's final use of habeas corpus came after his arrest in June 1844 by a county constable for inciting a "riot" by ordering suppression of the Nauvoo Expositor. This action climaxed a series of lawsuits between the Prophet and several apostates, who had charged him with perjury and adultery; he had countercharged with perjury, assault, defamation, and resisting arrest. After a subsequent trial on the merits and his acquittal in Nauvoo, the governor persuaded the Prophet to let himself be arrested and tried again for the "riot," this time in Carthage, where he was incarcerated without bail on a new charge of "treason" for declaring martial law and ordering out the Nauvoo militia to keep peace. Joseph Smith's enemies charged that he was going on the offensive against citizens of Illinois. Two days later, he and his brother Hyrum were killed by a mob in disguise.
http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/people/joseph_smith/legal_trials.html

Quote
21. Brigham Young said plural marriage must be practiced i) order to achieve exaltation (34:14).
 Brigham Young in the same talk also said that the Lord could stop plural marriage when he wanted to. The Lord did stop it, in 1890.
 

Evidently the Lord waited until Congress acted.  The final comment is one of faith or opinion, not fact, and in fact the Fundamentalist Mormons with their compounds don't believe it.  J.S. will have to answer for that.

The Manefesto that stopped polygamy states only "..."Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I heareby declare my intention to submit to those laws, to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise...WILFORD WOODRUFF [signed]"President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.""  LDS Mormons continued to live with their plural wives: B.H. Roberts was refused his seat in 1898 (i.e. nearly a decade after the "ban") because of his practice of polygamy. The Mormons in Canada and Mexico continued the practice.

Besides that, the Manifesto does not even claim to be a revelation "from the Lord," it was ratified by the Mormon leadership, Lorenzo Snow (who succeeded Woodruff) moved:"'I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding" and the assembled agreed.  Compare that to the Doctrine and Covenants "Revelation through Joseph Smith, Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded on July 12, 1843" (and indeed other "revelations" of D & C) which established it:1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines...65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife. [NOTE: this contradicts the account of Genesis.  God is not even asked permission, let alone He commanded it.] 66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1890_Manifesto#The_Manifesto
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/od/1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.H._Roberts#Studies_of_the_Book_of_Mormon
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Doctrine_and_Covenants/Section_132

And the problem is for this exoneration and excuse that this is not present dogma (questionably true, btw) is the FACT that J.S. was praticing it in private and promoting it while he was denying it in public. His wife Emma (buried next to him) went to her grave denying that J.S. practiced it, the official RLDS line.  So we are supposed to take their word on it that the deceit on this dogma has ended?

Quote
2. No one has unearthed "even one gold plate" (89:35).
 Numerous gold plates with ancient writings have been found. The Book of Mormon plates were returned to the Angel Moroni when the translation was complete.
 
"Have been found." Can we see one?

An issue not addressed is the fact (brought out by the makers of the God-Makers, they have written other stuff, and are ex-Mormons) that all the "witnesses" to the plates not in J.S.'s family were expelled from the LDS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Witnesses
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Witnesses

Your Mormon apologists also get into issue of Solo Scriptura with the Evangelical detractors, that I'm not going to get into.

I could go on, but see little reason to: both the cartoon and the Godmakers are accurate, which is easily demonstrable.  If you have any SPECIFIC issues, bring them up and I will address them.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Marat

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #46 on: June 11, 2009, 08:24:52 PM »
What is this "YOUR MORMON" stuff? I'm no longer LDS and haven't been for several years now. I am not here to debate their doctrines, and if I were I wouldn't be doing it here. This isn't the site. If you are eager to tackle it, www.mormonapologetics.org has a board and many there live to do this. I stand by my statement this this snide cartoon depiction does not fairly represent the LDS faith but I'm not here to debate it. I only posted about it being a poor tool in that when using material from The God Makers, any LDS will not readily listen.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #47 on: June 11, 2009, 10:25:50 PM »
What is this "YOUR MORMON" stuff?

YOUR: you linked it.

MORMON: the site is a Mormon apologist site, and hence should be judged accordingly.  As I've spot pointed out, there's spin.


Quote
I'm no longer LDS and haven't been for several years now.

Congratulations. Catholic of any stripe is a vast inprovement.


Quote
I am not here to debate their doctrines, and if I were I wouldn't be doing it here. This isn't the site. If you are eager to tackle it, www.mormonapologetics.org has a board and many there live to do this. I stand by my statement this this snide cartoon depiction does not fairly represent the LDS faith but I'm not here to debate it. I only posted about it being a poor tool in that when using material from The God Makers, any LDS will not readily listen.
As I said, I wasn't recommending it for LDS.  Just the unsuspecting they may encounter.

And to be fair, as I pointed out, the makers of the God Makers are former LDS too. What they portray squares what I've read from LDS sources, besides the accounts of former Mormons.

But a question: why would you debate for their doctrines?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #48 on: June 11, 2009, 11:08:14 PM »
Here's an interesting part of the Mormon puzzle, linked by the Mormon apologetic site linked above: DNA and the Book of Mormon.  In contrast to the Bible (DNA proves the genealogical claims, including all priests descended from Aaron c. 1200 B.C.), DNA does not support the Mormon idea that the Amerindians are from the seed of Abraham.  Interesting how they try to get around that.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon_and_DNA_evidence
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Jetavan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #49 on: June 11, 2009, 11:19:10 PM »
Quote
2. No one has unearthed "even one gold plate" (89:35).
 Numerous gold plates with ancient writings have been found. The Book of Mormon plates were returned to the Angel Moroni when the translation was complete.
 
"Have been found." Can we see one?

Unique book goes on display

The world's oldest multiple-page book - in the lost Etruscan language - has gone on display in Bulgaria's National History Museum in Sofia.

It contains six bound sheets of 24 carat gold, with illustrations of a horse-rider, a mermaid, a harp and soldiers.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Marc1152

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2009, 12:18:57 AM »
I've known several mormons and they certainly weren't all exuding love and 'niceness,' though I see where you are coming from. One I knew was very affable but extremely serious and disciplined. Anyway I know one gentleman who was originally baptized in the Reformed Mormon church early in life and just a year ago was rebaptized into the Orthodox Church. I don't think he was ever a serious Mormon though, and to my knowledge Reformed Mormonism isn't really Mormonism anyway. Just thought I'd tell what I know. I would think it would be quite a radical shift for you to become an Orthodox Christian.

The Reformed Mormon Churches ( there are several, the two largest are in MO. One is "The Reformed Church of Latter Day Saints" and the other is the "Temple Lot" Church) are closer to the original form than the group that up and left for Utah under Brigham Young. The folks who stayed in MO. were led by the family of Joseph Smith and rejected Young's zeal for Polygamy and other out rages. The reformed Churches look and feel more like mainstream Protestant outfits, with a twist.


Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2009, 01:13:44 AM »
Interesting point about Wilford Woodruff: I know some of his descendents personally and they are practicing Orthodox Christians. One of which is studying to be priest.

The LDS try to get them to "come back" all the time, but to no avail.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2009, 06:17:51 AM »
Interesting point about Wilford Woodruff: I know some of his descendents personally and they are practicing Orthodox Christians. One of which is studying to be priest.

The LDS try to get them to "come back" all the time, but to no avail.

Many years to them!  Thanks for sharing.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2009, 06:20:21 AM »
Quote
2. No one has unearthed "even one gold plate" (89:35).
 Numerous gold plates with ancient writings have been found. The Book of Mormon plates were returned to the Angel Moroni when the translation was complete.
 
"Have been found." Can we see one?

Unique book goes on display

The world's oldest multiple-page book - in the lost Etruscan language - has gone on display in Bulgaria's National History Museum in Sofia.

It contains six bound sheets of 24 carat gold, with illustrations of a horse-rider, a mermaid, a harp and soldiers.

No, I meant see one from North America, let alone one that had the Book of Mormon.  Though it could be where J.S. got the idea.


Btw, genetic studies have confirmed, unlike the Book of Mormon DNA studies, the ancient records that the Etruscans came from Lydia (and also the Roman claim of descent from Trojans).
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Offline Bono Vox

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2009, 10:33:46 AM »
A couple of years ago, there was a really cool guy who was visiting from out of town for a few weeks. He sang in the choir with us during his visit. He said he was a convert to Orthodoxy from Mormonism. I was really impressed listening to his story.

While I believe the Mormon church is absolutely a cult and heretical, my experience is that most Mormons are really nice people. I went to a high school where about 25% of the population was LDS. I became familiar with all of their lingo and theology. I even read the book of Mormon (which I thought was grammatically awful).

I know it is difficult for people born into the LDS church to convert to Orthodoxy (or any other religion) because it often means they are cut off from their family and/or community. I am sympathetic to those who have had to suffer.

Speaking of Mormonism, anyone catch the new season of Big Love?
Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Offline Andrea

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2009, 12:36:23 PM »
A couple of years ago, there was a really cool guy who was visiting from out of town for a few weeks. He sang in the choir with us during his visit. He said he was a convert to Orthodoxy from Mormonism. I was really impressed listening to his story.

What a change going from Mormonism to Orthodoxy.

Quote
While I believe the Mormon church is absolutely a cult and heretical, my experience is that most Mormons are really nice people. I went to a high school where about 25% of the population was LDS. I became familiar with all of their lingo and theology. I even read the book of Mormon (which I thought was grammatically awful).

I know it is difficult for people born into the LDS church to convert to Orthodoxy (or any other religion) because it often means they are cut off from their family and/or community. I am sympathetic to those who have had to suffer.

Very true. My husband was born into it, served his mission, attended the temple, etc.  He converted to Catholicism and has been shunned by his parents. He hasn't really talked to his mother and father for 7 years now, just because he left.  It's very sad.


This is an interesting thread. It's been a long time since we left, and I've done any reading on anything Mormon.


Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #56 on: June 21, 2009, 11:46:19 PM »
Joseph Smith said he had a papyrus which was written by Abraham which he then translated.It is part of the Mormon scriptures..The church thought the papyrus was lost during the Chicago fire but it was found in NYC recenttly..We can now translate egyptian hyroglyphics and the papyrus has nothing to do with Abraham...its a burial rite...The Book of Breathings..

That was the final straw for me.  Crack Mormon apologist Hugh Nibley has no response.

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2009, 11:47:45 PM »
It is in fact quite accurate. What do you find inaccurate in it?

The part about the starbase.  The rest of it is at least factually accurate.

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #58 on: June 21, 2009, 11:52:11 PM »
What a change going from Mormonism to Orthodoxy.

Actually not as much as you might think.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2009, 12:45:43 AM »
What a change going from Mormonism to Orthodoxy.

Actually not as much as you might think.


That's the bizarre thing about. For instance, they administer confirmation right after baptism and other suprises you wouldn't expect in a sect coming out of the same cauldron that fundamentalist evangelicalism came out of.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
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Offline Thomas

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2009, 09:30:33 AM »
It is not a great leap for one who was looking for the True Faith and had converted initially into the LDS Church to return home to the Orthodox Church once the fact is established that the original Church of Jesus Christ had not fallen and did not need to be "restored". THe Mormon church is founded upon the "fact" that the Church organized by Jesus Christ was lost and needed to be restored. To an Orthodox Chistian it was never lost.  Once a Mormon  recognizes that fact it is very easy to return to the Orthodox Church because most Mormon converts were just looking for Christ's True Church that He funded in the first place.

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2009, 11:52:09 AM »
It is not a great leap for one who was looking for the True Faith and had converted initially into the LDS Church to return home to the Orthodox Church once the fact is established that the original Church of Jesus Christ had not fallen and did not need to be "restored". THe Mormon church is founded upon the "fact" that the Church organized by Jesus Christ was lost and needed to be restored. To an Orthodox Chistian it was never lost.  Once a Mormon  recognizes that fact it is very easy to return to the Orthodox Church because most Mormon converts were just looking for Christ's True Church that He funded in the first place.

Thomas

I cant wait to say that to the next young Mormon who knocks on my door. However, I see them all the time in the neighborhood but they never ever ever come to my house. They go across the street , they go next door, but always skip my place. I waive at them and smile when I drive bye.. Nothing.  Maybe I should leave a plate of cookies outside the door.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2009, 04:44:56 PM »
It is not a great leap for one who was looking for the True Faith and had converted initially into the LDS Church to return home to the Orthodox Church once the fact is established that the original Church of Jesus Christ had not fallen and did not need to be "restored". THe Mormon church is founded upon the "fact" that the Church organized by Jesus Christ was lost and needed to be restored. To an Orthodox Chistian it was never lost.  Once a Mormon  recognizes that fact it is very easy to return to the Orthodox Church because most Mormon converts were just looking for Christ's True Church that He funded in the first place.

Thomas

Hello,

I'm am a former Mormon, now a Catholic, and seriously looking into Orthodox Christianity for my permanent spiritual home.  What Thomas says above is the principle reason I left Mormonism.  There never was an Apostasy of the church Christ established through the apostles.  Other evidences awere critical to my decision to leave Mormonism, as well: the Book of Abraham was proved a fraud; the priesthood ban imposed on men of African descent was racist, unchristian, and man-made; Mormon temple rituals are obviously rooted in the Masonic lodge; and there is zero evidence of the ancient civilizations that the Book of Mormon asserts once existed in the Americas.

Now a bit about me.  I was born in Idaho and raised in the Mormon church in Utah, a fifth generation church member on both sides of the family.  I graduated from four years of seminary (which Mormon kids attend in Utah while in high school), went on a Mormon mission to North Carolina (yes, I was one of those in a white shirt and tie riding my bike around; maybe even knocking on your door), and was married in the Salt Lake City temple to my beautiful wife.  She is still a Mormon, as is her family, and we have two young boys (ages 7 and 10).  My dad is a Mormon bishop.  My mom is ultra-devout.  I quit the Momron church in the mid-'90s while in grad school, though the decision had been building for several years prior to that.  Since I was so devout, such a strong believer until my studies showed me the weakness of the Mormon position (which was quite emotionally devastating - I lost all faith in God and I lost my culture and my people), it's probably natural that I became an atheist.  I was an atheist for about ten years until I acknowledged that all along I felt God's pull.  He just would not leave me alone and I could not keep my mind off of the need to find Him.  Needless to say, my decision to leave the church and become a Catholic in March 2008 was devastating to my parents.  It was also very hard on my wife, though fortunately for me she is not devout like my mom.  My wife values Mormonism as a cultural fixture in her life and for its solid family values and that's it.  She is eminently practical and doesn't care a whit for doctrine or theology. I suppose that is what has saved our marriage.  It's very challenging, for the simple reason the Mormonism drives me nuts, but at least we can have some peace in her home if I don't intervene too much in her efforts to raise our boys as Mormons.  Her devout, anti-Catholic mom lives nearby, so that is a complicating factor.  But mom-in-law does not live with us so it's not too bad, most of the time.

So - why Catholicism and, very likely, Orthodoxy?  Well, since there was no Great Apostasy like Mormons claim, that means that the most ancient faith, the Church of the Fathers, must be the true Church of Christ. It's really that simple for me.  The question is identifying the church that has the best claim to represent that most ancient Tradition.  As a Mormon, and a Westerner, that meant the Catholic Church.  I knew nothing about Orthodoxy until I expanded my studies beyond Western forms of Christianity beginning in the summer of 2008.  More on that below.

As Clancy said, Mormonism and Orthodoxy aren't as far apart as you might think.  Mormons have temples and fancy themselves to be a restoration of the original Christian church. which Mormons believe looked just like Mormonism, including the practice of Mormon temple rituals such as baptism for the dead and eternal marriage.  The Mormon endowment ritual in the temple is heavily patterned after ritual in the Masonic lodge and to explain the similarities to his followers, Joseph Smith declared that Masonic rituals were corrupted forms of practices in Solomon's Temple.  In the temple, Mormons have an altar, they wear ritual clothing (robes, aprons, and hats/veils), there is a veil separating the room representing the world from the room called the holy of holies, and Mormons receive a new name when participating in those rituals for the first time.  The parallels with ancient Judaism should be obvious to you.  Mormons take these parallels as evidence that Mormonism is ancient, and is a restoration of the true temple religion of antiquity.  The problem, of course, is that the first temple in Jerusalem (Solomon's, destroyed by the Babylonians in the 6th Century B.C.), was a place of sacrifice and priests.  It was not a place where attendees make promises, make secret handshakes and and receive secret tokens.  Oaths, handshakes, and tokens are all copied from the Masonic lodge.  And scholars have demonstrated that Masonic rituals are inspired by Rosicrucian and hermetic traditions in the middle ages, which in turn were inspired by gnostic writings and the Jewish Kabbalah, which in turn were inspired by Jewish first temple traditions.  So, ironically, Mormon temple rituals did descend in corrupted form from ancient Judaism through gnosticism and Kabbalah, by way of the Masonic lodge.  Joseph Smith took those Masonic rituals and elaborated them into the modern Mormon temple rites.  Mormons, of course, would deny their rites are corruptions or inventions of Joseph Smith.  But the fact is that, truth be told, the most ancient Jewish temple-related rites in their pure form which survive today are those of Orthodoxy! 

That is a whole other topic and it is huge.  But suffice to say that stumbling upon that evidence is what led me to Orthodoxy in the first place.  Catholicism, of course, is rooted in the exact same tradition.  But Rome has stripped the Mass of much that was original in the earliest liturgies and in church architecture - aspects of Christian worship that Orthodoxy preserves and which were clearly modeled after rites in the first Jewish temple - exactly what you would expect of a faith created by Jesus himself to supersede and fulfill the ancient sacrificial religion of ancient Israel.  Jerusalem's temple was a foreshadowing of Jesus, our Great High Priest and his one, eternal sacrifice, and Orthodox beliefs and rituals reflect ancient temple rites and embody that central teaching most comprehensively.  As I said, the topic is huge and deserves its own thread.  Or better yet, google the writings of Margaret Barker.  She is a former president of the Old Testament Studies society and her work is turning biblical scholarship on its head.  Along with my discovery of the conciliar nature of Orthodox leadership and decision-making (which exactly mirrors the early church), her work on the Jewish temple and the early Christian liturgies has led me directly to the Orthodox Church as the true faith which preserves the authentic Apostolic Tradition.  It's elementary, really, and shouldn't be surprising that the most ancient faith really is the one that Jesus established.  When I realized that, it was a true forehead-slapping, Homer Simpson "Doh!" moment for me.  It was staring me in the face all along and I didn't even recognize it. 

So, I am on my way.  I meet with the local priest next Wednesday to start the ball rolling.  Have a blessed day and I look forward to any replies you kind folks may have.

Andrew

BTW - ATX stands for Austin, Texas - the city I now live in.  It's all I could think of for a moniker, since Andrew was already taken.

Offline stashko

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2009, 05:02:14 PM »
When my motor cycle Kawasaki kz750 a old iron horse  [heavy] sprung a oil leak in the cooling engine fins a few years back,,it was the Mormons from beaver utah thats were it broke down at,,, they came to the rescue ,,wonderful people salt of the earth....   I didn't know what they believed in at that time , But they radiated true kindness goodness God Bless them ...
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 05:03:36 PM by stashko »
ГОСПОДЕ ГОСПОДЕ ,ПОГЛЕДАЈ СА НЕБА ,ДОЂИ И ПОСЕТИ ТВОЈ ВИНОГРАД ТВОЈА ДЕСНИЦА ПОСАДИЛА АМИН АМИН.

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2009, 05:58:44 PM »
Dear to Christ, Andrew

Welcome to the Convert Issues Forum! I hope you will  find this to be a place that you can ask questions and get your questions answered in a direct manner.

Feel free to PM me later, as a former Mormon, I would love to meet with you and talk about my journey. I see you are in Austin Texas---I am some 50 miles away in Temple Texas and attend St John the Forerunner Antioxchian Orthodox Church in Cedar Park a suburb of Austin---perhaps we could meet for a chat.

Thomas
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Offline ATX

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2009, 06:41:05 PM »
Oh my gosh!  What a small world.  Surely the Lord's hand is in this.  I actually live in Cedar Park.  My wife attends the LDS wardhouse on the same street as St. John the Forerunner.  That's the parish I plan to attend.  I'm meeting with Fr. Aidan next Wednesday.  LOL! 

Andrew

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2009, 09:18:49 AM »
Andrew,

I am looking forward to meeting you. See you soon.

Thomas
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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #67 on: December 10, 2010, 09:55:56 PM »
Sorry to bump such an old thread but does anyone have any new experiences regarding these people?

I did want to mention the irony present here:
http://lds.org/scriptures/nt/2-pet/2?lang=eng

From my Bible 2 Peter 2:1 "But false prophets also arose, among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2-And many will follow their licentiousness, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled. 3-And in their greed they will exploit you with false words; from of old their condemnation has not been idle, and their destruction has not been asleep."

It's too bad I want to be Orthodox, otherwise I would be on a tireless crusade to stop them and pull away the wool by which wolves wear.
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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2010, 02:09:46 AM »
My landlady is a Mormon (as are her children) and I do have to say that she is by far the worst Mormon I have met, as well as the worst landlady I have had. One of my team mates on military funerals is a Mormon who converted from RC because of his wife who is Mormon (he had a bad experience with an RC Chaplain when he was at Basic Training and never went back to an RC church).

My cousin (keep him in your prayers as his wife just left him) used to date a very nice Mormon girl. She had two kids from a previous marriage and they were a great bunch; she never tried to push Mormonism on us and felt free to talk about her religion and as she was always over I usually babysat her daughters (cute kids!). If she hadn't been a Mormon they probably would have married.

All of that said, I can see how some one dissatisfied with the LDS could very easily switch to Orthodoxy; leaving one church that claims to have all the proper rituals restored to the restored "church of Christ" and going to a Church that has been doing things the same way for 2,000 years and still is the Church of Christ. Kind of makes sense in my mind...
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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #69 on: December 12, 2010, 04:52:17 PM »
My former roommate was an ex-Mormon whose father was a bishop, and after living with him for 2.5 years, I had learned pretty much every hole in the LDS apologetic; he tried unsuccessfully several times to bait missionaries into coming to our apartment just so he could debate them. Apparently out west there's a very high runaway rate among LDS teens, and my friend -- at least the last time I spoke with him -- wanted to go to Salt Lake City and set up a shelter especially to minister to them.

My only real experience with practicing Mormons was giving a ride to two missionaries whose bicycles had both broken on the side of a major U.S. highway near where I lived. I tried to ask them about their beliefs and mission, but they seemed really reluctant to talk. I think they were pretty new to the area, and the Louisiana delta is a loooooooong way from Idaho.
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Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #70 on: December 27, 2010, 12:39:26 AM »
It is not a great leap for one who was looking for the True Faith and had converted initially into the LDS Church to return home to the Orthodox Church once the fact is established that the original Church of Jesus Christ had not fallen and did not need to be "restored". THe Mormon church is founded upon the "fact" that the Church organized by Jesus Christ was lost and needed to be restored. To an Orthodox Chistian it was never lost.  Once a Mormon  recognizes that fact it is very easy to return to the Orthodox Church because most Mormon converts were just looking for Christ's True Church that He funded in the first place.

Thomas

I cant wait to say that to the next young Mormon who knocks on my door. However, I see them all the time in the neighborhood but they never ever ever come to my house. They go across the street , they go next door, but always skip my place. I waive at them and smile when I drive bye.. Nothing.  Maybe I should leave a plate of cookies outside the door.

Do it.  Especially if you can demonstrate to them that Orthodox church hasn't changed substantially since Nicea when the Bible (the one they also use) was compiled.  That's what Mormonism claims to have "restored."
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 12:45:01 AM by Clancy Boy »

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #71 on: December 27, 2010, 04:45:19 AM »
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2010, 10:41:57 AM »
I have actually been learning a lot from my Mormon team mate. One thing I did not know is that they do not consider Jesus to be God... I might have known this, but if so I forgot. Also, they don't drink tea (among other things) because its bad for your health, and their preachers and bishops don't get paid from the church and have to instead work "civilian" jobs - something about it being a calling from God so why would you be paid for it?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2010, 11:00:50 AM »
I have actually been learning a lot from my Mormon team mate. One thing I did not know is that they do not consider Jesus to be God... I might have known this, but if so I forgot.

They don't really consider God to be God. They teach that Adam has become Elohim, their god.  But, like with everything in Mormon "theology," it is convoluted and confused.

Jesus will become a god, like good Mormons are supposed to become gods.

Quote
Also, they don't drink tea (among other things) because its bad for your health,
As a result, I've seen stats that claim that Utah's sugar consumtion is the highest in the nation.

Quote
and their preachers and bishops don't get paid from the church and have to instead work "civilian" jobs - something about it being a calling from God so why would you be paid for it?
I Timothy 5:18.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 11:04:36 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline dcommini

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #74 on: December 27, 2010, 11:08:56 AM »
Good verse, I wonder how he would react to that... He semmed surprised that our priests get paid, almost appalled really. He also said something about how they don't pray in public (after I prayed over my meal), but that they pray in closets. When I tried to exlain our icon corners he didn't quite get it, like the closet is the only place to pray and you don't even pray around family... I guess they don't ascribe to where one or more is gathered...
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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #75 on: December 27, 2010, 11:22:59 AM »
Quote
Also, they don't drink tea (among other things) because its bad for your health,
As a result, I've seen stats that claim that Utah's sugar consumtion is the highest in the nation.

Here's a quick rundown of what's kosher for Mormons and what's not, food-wise:

Definitely okay:
Hot apple cider and hot cocoa.
Caffeine-free soft drinks.
Chocolate (which entertainer Marie Osmond has labeled "Mormon medication").
Moderate quantities of meat.
Postum (which is fine from the perspective of Mormon orthodoxy, though maybe not from the standpoint of good taste).
A diet rich in grains and vegetables.

Probably okay:
Herbal tea (according to the Word of Wisdom, herbs are "to be used with prudence and thanksgiving").
Cooking with wine, because the alcoholic content burns off during cooking. Some very conservative Mormons, however, won't use so much as a teaspoon of vanilla extract in a batch of chocolate-chip cookies.

Possibly okay: Nonalcoholic beer and sparkling cider rather than champagne. However, some Mormons think they should avoid even looking like they're drinking forbidden substances, because drinking them may confuse people.

Probably not okay, but no one knows for sure: Decaffeinated coffee. A June 1988 article in the official Church magazine never said that decaf is forbidden, but it did take pains to point out that decaf drinkers suffer elevated risk for ulcers and other gastrointestinal difficulties. However, bishops and stake presidents aren't supposed to deny a member a temple recommend for drinking decaf, and Apostle John Widtsoe advised members that consumption of decaffeinated drinks isn'tagainst the Word of Wisdom.

Definitely not okay:
Alcohol, including wine and beer.
Black tea, green tea,and other caffeinated teas.
Coffee and recipes that use it (which may even include desserts like tiramisu, though the authors hope not).
Iced coffee and iced caffeinated tea.
Illegal drugs, recreational drugs, and illicit prescription medications.
Tobacco.

The subject of endless debate: Caffeinated soft drinks.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2010, 11:24:52 AM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
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Offline dcommini

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #76 on: December 27, 2010, 11:27:36 AM »
My team mate will drink a dr. pepper on occasion, but not coffee, so I guess for him cokes and what not are ok, but he did say some people will not drink soft drinks at all. Later he said that you don't have to go by the word of wisdom, its "between you and Heavenly Father."
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Offline augustin717

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #77 on: December 27, 2010, 11:51:11 AM »
One of the most idiotic religions I've come across with. Even more so than the JW.
"I saw a miracle where 2 people entered church one by baptism and one by chrismation. On pictures the one received by full baptism was shinning in light the one by chrismation no."

Offline Aindriú

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #78 on: December 27, 2010, 01:06:15 PM »
My team mate will drink a dr. pepper on occasion, but not coffee, so I guess for him cokes and what not are ok, but he did say some people will not drink soft drinks at all. Later he said that you don't have to go by the word of wisdom, its "between you and Heavenly Father."

The "revelation" is against "hot drinks", which it traditionally interpreted as coffee and tea. Some Mormons think it is because of the caffeine in the coffee and tea, so they steer clear of caffeine, others stick to the teaching as described, and more liberal Mormons (like liberal Christians) do what they want and justify it.

I'm going to need this.

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #79 on: December 27, 2010, 01:59:39 PM »
He said as much, concerning those who strictly don't drink caffeine and those who abstain from "hot drinks".

He also said he used to be a fundamentalist (not those kind that ascribe to polygamy, but those who followed the word of wisdom) but his deployment to iraq made him question a few things. he is still happy to be Mormon, though
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Offline Shiny

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #80 on: December 27, 2010, 11:28:26 PM »
So this guy at work left 3 Mormon DVD's out by our book rack in the lounge. Guess what I did with them?
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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #81 on: December 27, 2010, 11:52:29 PM »
So this guy at work left 3 Mormon DVD's out by our book rack in the lounge. Guess what I did with them?

Watched them with Tom and Crow while making snarky comments?
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #82 on: December 27, 2010, 11:58:13 PM »
So this guy at work left 3 Mormon DVD's out by our book rack in the lounge. Guess what I did with them?

Watched them with Tom and Crow while making snarky comments?

Really? Really?  ::)
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Offline Aindriú

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #83 on: December 27, 2010, 11:58:52 PM »
So this guy at work left 3 Mormon DVD's out by our book rack in the lounge. Guess what I did with them?

Watched them with Tom and Crow while making snarky comments?

 :D


I'm going to need this.

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2010, 12:00:13 AM »
I guess tieing them to a rocket and wanting to make a youtube video out of it just isn't as good. ;)
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Offline dcommini

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2010, 12:01:30 AM »
I guess tieing them to a rocket and wanting to make a youtube video out of it just isn't as good. ;)

nothing compares to MST3K, but it would be nice to see the vid  ;D
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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #86 on: December 28, 2010, 12:08:23 AM »
Well, I figure the beliefs of Mormonism, while not good religion, aren't bad sci-fi.  A bunch of gods on a far-away planet, Lucifer as a son of God leading a rebellion and crashing to earth, Jesus as the good son being sent to earth, it's a doomed planet away from Superman.

Any DVD would have to be prime MST3K treatment.
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

Oh, no: I've succumbed to Hyperdoxy!

Offline dcommini

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2010, 12:13:28 AM »
Well, I figure the beliefs of Mormonism, while not good religion, aren't bad sci-fi.  A bunch of gods on a far-away planet, Lucifer as a son of God leading a rebellion and crashing to earth, Jesus as the good son being sent to earth, it's a doomed planet away from Superman.

Any DVD would have to be prime MST3K treatment.

You know, my Mormon friend said that the whole Jesus and Satan being brothers thing was Catholic and he never heard of it in the LDS.

Not bad sci-fi? Well it is better than what you can get on SyFy but it almost has a touch of Battlefield Earth to it...
OblSB

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Offline Aindriú

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #88 on: December 28, 2010, 12:15:30 AM »
You know, my Mormon friend said that the whole Jesus and Satan being brothers thing was Catholic and he never heard of it in the LDS.

Not bad sci-fi? Well it is better than what you can get on SyFy but it almost has a touch of Battlefield Earth to it...

LOL? Where did he learn to be Mormon?

I'm going to need this.

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2010, 12:16:41 AM »
You know, my Mormon friend said that the whole Jesus and Satan being brothers thing was Catholic and he never heard of it in the LDS.

Not bad sci-fi? Well it is better than what you can get on SyFy but it almost has a touch of Battlefield Earth to it...

LOL? Where did he learn to be Mormon?

Correspondence courses... 8)
OblSB

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Offline FormerReformer

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #90 on: December 28, 2010, 12:20:40 AM »
Well, I figure the beliefs of Mormonism, while not good religion, aren't bad sci-fi.  A bunch of gods on a far-away planet, Lucifer as a son of God leading a rebellion and crashing to earth, Jesus as the good son being sent to earth, it's a doomed planet away from Superman.

Any DVD would have to be prime MST3K treatment.

You know, my Mormon friend said that the whole Jesus and Satan being brothers thing was Catholic and he never heard of it in the LDS.

Not bad sci-fi? Well it is better than what you can get on SyFy but it almost has a touch of Battlefield Earth to it...

Duh.  Battlefield Earth is the allegory of Dianetics, which is the holy book of Scientology.  Scientology is to Mormonism what Babylon 5 is to Star Trek.
"Funny," said Lancelot, "how the people who can't pray say that prayers are not answered, however much the people who can pray say they are."  TH White

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Offline dcommini

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #91 on: December 28, 2010, 12:23:12 AM »
Well, I figure the beliefs of Mormonism, while not good religion, aren't bad sci-fi.  A bunch of gods on a far-away planet, Lucifer as a son of God leading a rebellion and crashing to earth, Jesus as the good son being sent to earth, it's a doomed planet away from Superman.

Any DVD would have to be prime MST3K treatment.

You know, my Mormon friend said that the whole Jesus and Satan being brothers thing was Catholic and he never heard of it in the LDS.

Not bad sci-fi? Well it is better than what you can get on SyFy but it almost has a touch of Battlefield Earth to it...

Duh.  Battlefield Earth is the allegory of Dianetics, which is the holy book of Scientology.  Scientology is to Mormonism what Babylon 5 is to Star Trek.

Yes, I know, bro... that is exactly the point I was trying to make... yeesh, siblings  ::)
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Offline Shiny

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2010, 12:23:54 AM »
I'm looking forward to seeing Trey Park and Matt Stone's "Book of Mormon" production on stage, should be hilarious.

I miss MST3K
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Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2010, 01:01:32 AM »
As a result, I've seen stats that claim that Utah's sugar consumtion is the highest in the nation.

Funny true story I heard in marketing class.  For a while in the 70s there were no Red Lobsters in the state of Utah.  No one wanted to try opening one because the chain didn't make much profit on the food (which was not marked up very much at all,) but on alcohol (which was marked up 500% or more.)

The first restaurant to open up in Utah however made incredible amounts of money.  Why?  Because what it didn't earn in drink sales it more than made up for in dessert sales, which also have a high markup.

Utah consumes sugar the way other states consume liquor.



Also caffeine drinks were NOT the subject of endless debate 20 years ago.  It was forbidden.  Vending machines at BYU did not sell it, and neither did Provo convenience stores.

I remember this clearly because I left Utah around that time and missed everything that happened over the next 15 years  When I came back I felt like Rip Van friggin' Winkle.  Not only had this prohibition been lifted, but no one remembered there had been a prohibition in the first place.  My own parents who punished me once for bringing home a 2-liter bottle of coke now gleefully consume the stuff during family home evening.

What drives me nuts about the Mormons is their hivemind.  Overintellectualizing your religion is of course bad but they take it to the opposite extreme.  You've got to be completely switched off to be a good Mormon.

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #94 on: December 28, 2010, 01:06:06 AM »
Quote
Also, they don't drink tea (among other things) because its bad for your health,
As a result, I've seen stats that claim that Utah's sugar consumtion is the highest in the nation.

Here's a quick rundown of what's kosher for Mormons and what's not, food-wise:

Definitely okay:
Hot apple cider and hot cocoa.
Caffeine-free soft drinks.
Chocolate (which entertainer Marie Osmond has labeled "Mormon medication").
Moderate quantities of meat.
Postum (which is fine from the perspective of Mormon orthodoxy, though maybe not from the standpoint of good taste).
A diet rich in grains and vegetables.

Probably okay:
Herbal tea (according to the Word of Wisdom, herbs are "to be used with prudence and thanksgiving").
Cooking with wine, because the alcoholic content burns off during cooking. Some very conservative Mormons, however, won't use so much as a teaspoon of vanilla extract in a batch of chocolate-chip cookies.

Possibly okay: Nonalcoholic beer and sparkling cider rather than champagne. However, some Mormons think they should avoid even looking like they're drinking forbidden substances, because drinking them may confuse people.

Probably not okay, but no one knows for sure: Decaffeinated coffee. A June 1988 article in the official Church magazine never said that decaf is forbidden, but it did take pains to point out that decaf drinkers suffer elevated risk for ulcers and other gastrointestinal difficulties. However, bishops and stake presidents aren't supposed to deny a member a temple recommend for drinking decaf, and Apostle John Widtsoe advised members that consumption of decaffeinated drinks isn'tagainst the Word of Wisdom.

Definitely not okay:
Alcohol, including wine and beer.
Black tea, green tea,and other caffeinated teas.
Coffee and recipes that use it (which may even include desserts like tiramisu, though the authors hope not).
Iced coffee and iced caffeinated tea.
Illegal drugs, recreational drugs, and illicit prescription medications.
Tobacco.

The subject of endless debate: Caffeinated soft drinks.


You forgot that old Mormon bugaboo coffee ice cream.  Once coffee has been whipped and frozen it is no longer in the "definitely not okay" category.

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #95 on: December 28, 2010, 01:14:49 AM »
Well, I figure the beliefs of Mormonism, while not good religion, aren't bad sci-fi.  A bunch of gods on a far-away planet, Lucifer as a son of God leading a rebellion and crashing to earth, Jesus as the good son being sent to earth, it's a doomed planet away from Superman.

Any DVD would have to be prime MST3K treatment.

If one of the movies is the iMax film Legend that used to play at the visitors center, it's very MST3K-able. 

Awful, awful movie.

If one of the movies is the Singles Second Ward, locate an exorcist immediately.



Awful, just awful.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #96 on: December 28, 2010, 03:22:03 AM »
Don't mess with those Mormon girls.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
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Y dduw bo'r diolch.

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #97 on: December 28, 2010, 03:34:08 AM »
Don't mess with those Mormon girls.

LMAO! Elder Tree is awesome!

Back to the topic of caffeine... I once heard that the LDS church owned Pepsi or some such hoopla, anybody know how true that is? I wonder what else they own (aside from every ancestral record starting with you and tracing back to Adam)...
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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #98 on: December 28, 2010, 03:42:40 AM »
Don't mess with those Mormon girls.

LMAO! Elder Tree is awesome!

Back to the topic of caffeine... I once heard that the LDS church owned Pepsi or some such hoopla, anybody know how true that is? I wonder what else they own (aside from every ancestral record starting with you and tracing back to Adam)...
The Mormons and the Patels own all the hotels in America.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #99 on: December 28, 2010, 04:21:47 AM »
Don't mess with those Mormon girls.

LMAO! Elder Tree is awesome!

Back to the topic of caffeine... I once heard that the LDS church owned Pepsi or some such hoopla, anybody know how true that is? I wonder what else they own (aside from every ancestral record starting with you and tracing back to Adam)...
The Mormons and the Patels own all the hotels in America.

That would not surprise me.
OblSB

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Offline WetCatechumen

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #100 on: December 30, 2010, 04:32:19 AM »
I was a near casualty to Mormonism. The reason? Protestantism left me wanting with questions that the Mormons had answers too, in addition to most of my friends being Mormons and them being much holier and more pious in general than the Christians I knew.

Catholicism blew Mormonism's answers out of the water. I had just been so brainwashed in being raised Protestant to hate Catholicism and assume it was wrong that I never realized it held the answers the whole times.

Of course, the Orthodox Church could lay the same claim and blow the Mormons out of the water just the same - but obviously I went West for reasons in addition to this (which I obviously won't discuss here - we have a whole forum for that).
"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

Offline Aidan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #101 on: December 30, 2010, 05:55:20 AM »
I was a near casualty to Mormonism. The reason? Protestantism left me wanting with questions that the Mormons had answers too, in addition to most of my friends being Mormons and them being much holier and more pious in general than the Christians I knew.

Catholicism blew Mormonism's answers out of the water. I had just been so brainwashed in being raised Protestant to hate Catholicism and assume it was wrong that I never realized it held the answers the whole times.

Of course, the Orthodox Church could lay the same claim and blow the Mormons out of the water just the same - but obviously I went West for reasons in addition to this (which I obviously won't discuss here - we have a whole forum for that).
Throughout my quite long life I have occasional come across Mormons and listened to what they had to say. In agreement with you I found them generally more holy and more pious than most Christians. They also put themselves out to try and convert you (as do the JWs).
When was the last time a member of the Orthodox (or even the RC) faith tried to convert you. I want to know what I have to do to avoid being accused of being a slouch by my Saviour when I come to be judged.
Any ideas
?

Offline Shiny

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #102 on: December 30, 2010, 07:44:41 AM »
When was the last time a member of the Orthodox (or even the RC) faith tried to convert you. I want to know what I have to do to avoid being accused of being a slouch by my Saviour when I come to be judged.
Any ideas
?

It is usually difficult and impossible to change anyone else at all.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

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Offline Aidan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #103 on: December 30, 2010, 07:53:00 AM »
When was the last time a member of the Orthodox (or even the RC) faith tried to convert you. I want to know what I have to do to avoid being accused of being a slouch by my Saviour when I come to be judged.
Any ideas
?

It is usually difficult and impossible to change anyone else at all.
But in Britain it's not easy to find your way into Orthodoxy. You meet little encouragement and you are unlikely to meet a glowing example of the Faith in the normal course of everyday life. So you probably come to it through reading and seeking people out.
Is this the way of the Apostolic church?

Offline Shiny

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #104 on: December 30, 2010, 08:03:40 AM »
It's the same in America. Superficially speaking, the "I think, therefore I am" thinking of the Western world is something that is extremely hard to breakthrough to someone. It is completely illogical and impractical to try to make other people change, particularily in the way we normally attempt to do it-by telling then to change. That simply doesn't work.
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Aidan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #105 on: December 30, 2010, 08:51:48 AM »
It's the same in America. Superficially speaking, the "I think, therefore I am" thinking of the Western world is something that is extremely hard to breakthrough to someone. It is completely illogical and impractical to try to make other people change, particularily in the way we normally attempt to do it-by telling then to change. That simply doesn't work.
I suppose I'm thinking of Our Saviour's command to 'Let our light shine before men, that they may see your good works , and glorify your Father which is in heaven.' Maybe I'm judging people but I don't know any living examples of this. One good work would seem to be inviting people to Orthodoxy but I don't see it happening.

Offline WetCatechumen

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #106 on: December 30, 2010, 10:06:29 PM »
I was a near casualty to Mormonism. The reason? Protestantism left me wanting with questions that the Mormons had answers too, in addition to most of my friends being Mormons and them being much holier and more pious in general than the Christians I knew.

Catholicism blew Mormonism's answers out of the water. I had just been so brainwashed in being raised Protestant to hate Catholicism and assume it was wrong that I never realized it held the answers the whole times.

Of course, the Orthodox Church could lay the same claim and blow the Mormons out of the water just the same - but obviously I went West for reasons in addition to this (which I obviously won't discuss here - we have a whole forum for that).
Throughout my quite long life I have occasional come across Mormons and listened to what they had to say. In agreement with you I found them generally more holy and more pious than most Christians. They also put themselves out to try and convert you (as do the JWs).
When was the last time a member of the Orthodox (or even the RC) faith tried to convert you. I want to know what I have to do to avoid being accused of being a slouch by my Saviour when I come to be judged.
Any ideas
?
I know personally, in real life, three converts to Orthodoxy. I know many more to Catholicism (only because I am Catholic).

My very good friend, who is one of those three converts, is the only one who extended any effort towards converting me to Orthodoxy. I've not known many Orthodox Christians - I suspect that it just wasn't obvious, although there were obviously some.

My group of RC friends, many of whom are converts, are very evangelical. My friend was, in a way, converted by the young Protestant converts from Biola University.
"And because they have nothing better to do, they take cushion and chairs to Rome. And while the Pope is saying liturgy, they go, 'Oh, oh, oh, filioque!' And the Pope say, 'Filioque? That-uh sound nice! I think I divide-uh the Church over it!'" - Comrade Real Presence

Offline Shiny

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #107 on: December 30, 2010, 11:00:08 PM »
I think this is pretty good regarding cults like Mormonism and JW

Quote
Encouraging people to verify claims and seek proof (and hence discouraging their gullibility) is a guaranteed way to get slammed if you are preaching lies. Let us suppose for a minute that you are trying to start a false religion. In order to support your false religion, you decide to make up a number of historical (i.e., testable) claims, and then hope that nobody would check up on them.

In other words, despite the advice given in factors #7 (i.e., don't make up historical claims) and #13 (i.e., that people will check out your claims), you've decided to take a punt and hope that people will be gullible enough to join your religion. What is the most important thing to do, if you have made up claims that are provably false? Well, of course, you don't go around encouraging people to check up on your claims, knowing that if they do so you will be found out!

Suppose, for example, you are starting a new UFO cult, where the faithful will be taken up into a UFO that is waiting for them. Such a cultist would usually follow advice from factor #7, and make sure the UFO is somewhere where people can't go and check up on it (e.g., assert that the UFO is hiding behind the Moon). But suppose you ignored this advice, and instead asserted that the UFO was waiting in a cave in a mountain not far from the city.

The last thing you would do is encourage people to go to the cave and check out your claim - thereby discouraging the very gullibility that your cult's survival depends on. If you wanted to attract people to join your cult, you'd have to do the direct opposite - discourage your potential recruits from checking it out (perhaps by throwing in a clause "If anyone goes to the cave before their time, they will not be taken.")

Throughout the NT, the apostles encouraged people to check seek proof and verify facts:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
And when fledgling converts heeded this advice, not only did they remain converts (suggesting that the evidence held up under scrutiny), but the apostles described them as "noble" for doing so:

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

As if the apostles weren't making things hard enough for themselves by making extraordinary and testable claims in a social environment where it was difficult to keep secrets, they increased the odds significantly by actively encouraging people to check out their claims. Encouraging people to verify claims and seek proof is a guaranteed way of ensuring that your fledgling cult is a flop - unless, of course, those claims hold up under the scrutiny that your encouragement will undoubtedly generate.
http://www.oodegr.com/english/atheismos/impossible_faith.htm
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 11:00:49 PM by Achronos »
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Offline peteprint

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #108 on: December 30, 2010, 11:50:14 PM »
A friend that I knew a number of years ago had converted to Mormonism.  I remember her proudly mentioning that their clergy did not take a salary.  That is very deceptive with regards to the top leadership of the LDS Church.

For most of the Church's history, it's leaders have run the Church owned businesses, which include Beneficial Life.  I read that a few years back they made some cosmetic changes in the boards that run these corporations, but the fact remains that the LDS Church is run as a business and is very wealthy.

This link is to a page put out by anti-Mormon Protestants but is still a good read regarding their properties and business concerns:

http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon410.htm

This is from a Time magazine article about the Mormon business empire:

"In the first century of corporate Mormonism, the church's leaders were partners, officers or directors in more than 900 Utah-area businesses. They owned woolen mills, cotton factories, 500 local co-ops, 150 stores and 200 miles of railroad. Moreover, when occasionally faced with competition, they insisted that church members patronize LDS-owned businesses. Eventually this became too much for the U.S. Congress. In 1887 it passed the Edmunds-Tucker Act, specifically to smash the Mormons' vertical monopolies."

http://www.lds-mormon.com/time.shtml

When Mormon leaders sit on the boards, or direct multi-million dollar corporations bought with church money, it is disingenuous for them to claim they are paid no salary for their Church work.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #109 on: January 01, 2011, 02:24:11 PM »
But in Britain it's not easy to find your way into Orthodoxy. You meet little encouragement and you are unlikely to meet a glowing example of the Faith in the normal course of everyday life. So you probably come to it through reading and seeking people out.
Is this the way of the Apostolic church?

Well, evangelism is also a part of it, but I really am starting to wonder if spending all of your time arguing with other Christians constitutes evangelism:

"Hey, I've got some Good News! You're wrong about Jesus and I'm right!"

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #110 on: January 01, 2011, 02:28:00 PM »
But in Britain it's not easy to find your way into Orthodoxy. You meet little encouragement and you are unlikely to meet a glowing example of the Faith in the normal course of everyday life. So you probably come to it through reading and seeking people out.
Is this the way of the Apostolic church?

Well, evangelism is also a part of it, but I really am starting to wonder if spending all of your time arguing with other Christians constitutes evangelism:

"Hey, I've got some Good News! You're wrong about Jesus and I'm right!"

Very good point. There are many times when I go past these so-called "non-denominational churches" or have friends from there spouting off the newest heresies that their church is teaching that I just want to tell that entire church about Holy Orthodoxy. However, I don't think that would be the right approach and would probably end up being prideful and not Christ-like.

In Christ,
Andrew
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Offline Aidan

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #111 on: January 01, 2011, 02:48:42 PM »
But in Britain it's not easy to find your way into Orthodoxy. You meet little encouragement and you are unlikely to meet a glowing example of the Faith in the normal course of everyday life. So you probably come to it through reading and seeking people out.
Is this the way of the Apostolic church?

Well, evangelism is also a part of it, but I really am starting to wonder if spending all of your time arguing with other Christians constitutes evangelism:

"Hey, I've got some Good News! You're wrong about Jesus and I'm right!"





Very good point. There are many times when I go past these so-called "non-denominational churches" or have friends from there spouting off the newest heresies that their church is teaching that I just want to tell that entire church about Holy Orthodoxy. However, I don't think that would be the right approach and would probably end up being prideful and not Christ-like.

In Christ,
Andrew
It may also be negligent! To hell with such worries! They might never hear except from you.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #112 on: January 01, 2011, 03:00:31 PM »
Well, I for one have enough perspective to realize that I am not God and it is not my job to spend all of my time arguing with all of the other Christians I know. All of my family is either Roman Catholic or Protestant and I don't go to family gatherings presuming to lecture any of them about how wrong their groups are. Many of them are my elders, and they have my respect and deference. Should any of them inquire about Orthodoxy to me, then I am always willing to discuss and in those cases would make a strong case for Orthodoxy. But I also know that my mind is limited, and one of my greatest temptations is to love to argue and try to prove that I'm right about everything. I did this a lot when I was into Calvinism about a decade ago, trying to convince everybody how right this system of thinking was. I realized years later after I was very disillusioned and burned-out that all of that arguing had very little to do with God and a whole lot to do with my ego. So I have to be careful in how I approach people.

Before we share Christ we have to have peace, and as my peace increases, so does my outward expression of my Orthodox faith. I presume to lecture no one, but only to share the life and peace inside of me. But in order to have something to share, there must be some measure of acquisition. If I am not peaceful, then how can I share peace? If I am not divine, then how can I share Divinity?

It is not enough to argue and lecture, but I agree that Orthodox Christians must be more vocal. We must evangelize.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 03:01:46 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #113 on: January 01, 2011, 03:36:14 PM »
Well, I for one have enough perspective to realize that I am not God and it is not my job to spend all of my time arguing with all of the other Christians I know. All of my family is either Roman Catholic or Protestant and I don't go to family gatherings presuming to lecture any of them about how wrong their groups are. Many of them are my elders, and they have my respect and deference. Should any of them inquire about Orthodoxy to me, then I am always willing to discuss and in those cases would make a strong case for Orthodoxy. But I also know that my mind is limited, and one of my greatest temptations is to love to argue and try to prove that I'm right about everything. I did this a lot when I was into Calvinism about a decade ago, trying to convince everybody how right this system of thinking was. I realized years later after I was very disillusioned and burned-out that all of that arguing had very little to do with God and a whole lot to do with my ego. So I have to be careful in how I approach people.

Before we share Christ we have to have peace, and as my peace increases, so does my outward expression of my Orthodox faith. I presume to lecture no one, but only to share the life and peace inside of me. But in order to have something to share, there must be some measure of acquisition. If I am not peaceful, then how can I share peace? If I am not divine, then how can I share Divinity?

It is not enough to argue and lecture, but I agree that Orthodox Christians must be more vocal. We must evangelize.
Amen!

In Christ,
Andrew
"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #114 on: January 04, 2011, 03:54:49 AM »
I was a near casualty to Mormonism. The reason? Protestantism left me wanting with questions that the Mormons had answers too, in addition to most of my friends being Mormons and them being much holier and more pious in general than the Christians I knew.

Catholicism blew Mormonism's answers out of the water. I had just been so brainwashed in being raised Protestant to hate Catholicism and assume it was wrong that I never realized it held the answers the whole times.

Of course, the Orthodox Church could lay the same claim and blow the Mormons out of the water just the same - but obviously I went West for reasons in addition to this (which I obviously won't discuss here - we have a whole forum for that).
Throughout my quite long life I have occasional come across Mormons and listened to what they had to say. In agreement with you I found them generally more holy and more pious than most Christians. They also put themselves out to try and convert you (as do the JWs).
When was the last time a member of the Orthodox (or even the RC) faith tried to convert you. I want to know what I have to do to avoid being accused of being a slouch by my Saviour when I come to be judged.
Any ideas
?

Fr. Seraphim Rose said that it shouldn't be necessary to proselytize.  That the Christian faithful should convert by example.

Mormonism is a business.  Their image is carefully managed, and every member has been trained like a salesperson to respond to a specific set of common questions that Protestants often have.  That's why they're always johnny-on-the-spot with an answer.

Mormonism has extremely limited success converting Catholics because the message isn't tailored to them.  For example, one of the leading questions Mormons are taught to ask is "by whose authority does your church teach?"  
Protestant answer: gee, I dunno!  :o
Catholic/Orthodox answer: the apostles, dummy  ::)

« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 04:10:46 AM by Clancy Boy »

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #115 on: January 04, 2011, 04:03:16 AM »
A friend that I knew a number of years ago had converted to Mormonism.  I remember her proudly mentioning that their clergy did not take a salary.  That is very deceptive with regards to the top leadership of the LDS Church.

It's more accurate to say they don't pay their employees.

About 8 years ago the Mormon church decided to let all their custodians and groundskeepers go and make the members do their jobs instead.  They call it an "opportunity for service."

And yes, several million American Mormons bought that.

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #116 on: January 04, 2011, 04:09:50 AM »
It is not enough to argue and lecture, but I agree that Orthodox Christians must be more vocal. We must evangelize.

We must be more Christian.

I think it's ironic that the overwhelming majority of Christians are shy about crossing themselves in public or blessing food at a restaurant yet think they need to go to some other extraordinary measure to advertise themselves.

If we want to get noticed we should probably spend less time trying to blend in.  Maybe?

Offline peteprint

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #117 on: January 04, 2011, 04:17:35 AM »
A friend that I knew a number of years ago had converted to Mormonism.  I remember her proudly mentioning that their clergy did not take a salary.  That is very deceptive with regards to the top leadership of the LDS Church.

It's more accurate to say they don't pay their employees.

About 8 years ago the Mormon church decided to let all their custodians and groundskeepers go and make the members do their jobs instead.  They call it an "opportunity for service."

And yes, several million American Mormons bought that.


They also pressure their members to tithe.  My friend was proud of her "temple recommend" card, without which she could not enter the temple for temple ceremonies.  The Bishop has to sign it, and won't, unless the member is paid-up.

Offline Clancy Boy

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #118 on: January 04, 2011, 05:12:14 AM »
A friend that I knew a number of years ago had converted to Mormonism.  I remember her proudly mentioning that their clergy did not take a salary.  That is very deceptive with regards to the top leadership of the LDS Church.

It's more accurate to say they don't pay their employees.

About 8 years ago the Mormon church decided to let all their custodians and groundskeepers go and make the members do their jobs instead.  They call it an "opportunity for service."

And yes, several million American Mormons bought that.


They also pressure their members to tithe.  My friend was proud of her "temple recommend" card, without which she could not enter the temple for temple ceremonies.  The Bishop has to sign it, and won't, unless the member is paid-up.

That's a relatively new thing.  In the past they just threatened members with fire.  I remember in the 80s Mormons would jokingly refer to tithing as "fire insurance" because it was linked specifically with not being burned alive at the second coming.  I guess that didn't work quite well enough though.

Offline Aindriú

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #119 on: January 04, 2011, 05:55:01 PM »
It is not enough to argue and lecture, but I agree that Orthodox Christians must be more vocal. We must evangelize.

We must be more Christian.

I think it's ironic that the overwhelming majority of Christians are shy about crossing themselves in public or blessing food at a restaurant yet think they need to go to some other extraordinary measure to advertise themselves.

If we want to get noticed we should probably spend less time trying to blend in.  Maybe?

LOL *thumbs up*

I'm going to need this.

Offline ATX

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #120 on: January 07, 2011, 03:52:46 PM »
I posted to this thread a while back.  I'm a former-Mormon convert to Orthodoxy.  I am currently a catechumen hoping for chrismation very soon, God willing.  The process is temporarily on hold though, as I'm moving from Texas to Germany for a federal job I have been offered with the Department of Defense.  I'm already in touch with an army chaplain who is an Orthodox priest and he will help to get me established over there so I can continue my journey into Orthodoxy.  It has been a fantastic journey, thus far.  I am so blessed to have finally found the true faith after many years of searching. 

Yours in Christ,
Andrew

Offline dcommini

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #121 on: January 07, 2011, 04:14:39 PM »
Would that chaplain be Fr. George by chance? I ask because a chaplain from Germany was at my parish a few weeks ago. I can not remember his last name though...
OblSB

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Offline peteprint

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #122 on: January 07, 2011, 04:17:05 PM »
That's wonderful Andrew, good luck with your new position!

Offline ATX

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #123 on: January 07, 2011, 04:28:53 PM »
Would that chaplain be Fr. George by chance? I ask because a chaplain from Germany was at my parish a few weeks ago. I can not remember his last name though...


The chaplain is Fr. Peter Baktis in Heidelberg, where I will be living and working.  He told me about two other Orthodox chaplains: Fr. Hill in Stuttgart and Fr. Lahue in Ramstein.   I plan to attend Divine Liturgy somewhere off-base as well, but services will be in Greek, Russian or German.  It will be interesting!  I know it is all one Liturgy, but one day I hope to speak German so I don't mangle the prayers when I pray them.

Yours in Christ,
Andrew

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Re: From Mormonism to Orthodoxy
« Reply #124 on: January 07, 2011, 04:47:42 PM »
Interesting, I wish you all the best! Good luck!
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