OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 30, 2014, 09:43:28 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Female Eucharistic Ministers in the Roman Catholic Church?  (Read 2833 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« on: July 09, 2012, 06:31:55 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I don't mean to stir controversy, but I just learned of this by coincidence today.  I'm a bit late in learning about this, but I am also not a Catholic Smiley

What do y'all think about female Eucharistic ministers? I know we disagree, obviously by a lot of the backlash just as the idea of girls wearing the same vestments as altar boys, but seriously, what is y'all opinion?  In particular, what do our resident Catholic boardies think.  Could some of the Catholics here perhaps explain their experience or reasoning with this? I am curious more so than judgemental about this.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 07:27:51 PM »

Are they ordained as deaconesses?
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church
Posts: 12,736


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 07:50:54 PM »

I have seen nuns be given this task sometimes. No, they don't have women deacons.
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,155


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 08:07:10 PM »

I'm not a big fan of extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist in the first place. The priest is to be an icon of Christ, and in the liturgy, we receive grace from Christ. It points to a particular reality of the spiritual life. We are not active, nor are we the initiators. It is God who gives us grace. It is he who pursues us. Thus, it is most appropriate that we receive Holy Communion from the hands of the priest. We (the Church) are the bride. Christ is the groom. 
Logged

Note Papist's influence from the tyrannical monarchism of traditional papism .
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,467


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 08:14:39 PM »

I have seen nuns be given this task sometimes. No, they don't have women deacons.

That was a joke.

People used to receive Eucharist every Sunday to take It daily and now there are protests against receiving It in hands. I do not see any sense in that.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine
Posts: 10,015


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2012, 10:00:48 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I don't mean to stir controversy, but I just learned of this by coincidence today.  I'm a bit late in learning about this, but I am also not a Catholic Smiley

What do y'all think about female Eucharistic ministers? I know we disagree, obviously by a lot of the backlash just as the idea of girls wearing the same vestments as altar boys, but seriously, what is y'all opinion?  In particular, what do our resident Catholic boardies think.  Could some of the Catholics here perhaps explain their experience or reasoning with this? I am curious more so than judgemental about this.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

First of all, the *only* "Eucharistic ministers" in the Catholic Church are priests and deacons.  Those who assist them, when necessary (would that that were always the case!) are called "Extraordinary eucharistic ministers" or "extraordinary ministers of the eucharist".  These people, whether men or women are not ordained, and depending on which parish of which diocese they are in they get training that varies from excellent to almost none (that's a whole other issue!).

Their existence and function is approved and "regulated" (well...) by Rome.  See http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html

I find their use, whether they are men or women, to be, at least in the U.S., excessive and distracting.  There are situations, such as at some of the Masses at the parish I belong to, where their participation is justified (of our 4 priests we have 2 who are old and physically ailing, one of whom is semi-retired who are not physically up to serving Holy Communion to hundreds of parishioners at a time, and we have only one deacon at the moment who is only there occasionally.)

If a vote were held about the use of EMOE's I would vote to limit their use drastically and to restrict it to men and to ensure that they had thorough, comprehensive training with at least annual "re-training" workshops.   
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
HabteSelassie
Ises and I-ity
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Posts: 3,332



« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2012, 12:45:48 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




First of all, the *only* "Eucharistic ministers" in the Catholic Church are priests and deacons.  Those who assist them, when necessary (would that that were always the case!) are called "Extraordinary eucharistic ministers" or "extraordinary ministers of the eucharist".  These people, whether men or women are not ordained, and depending on which parish of which diocese they are in they get training that varies from excellent to almost none (that's a whole other issue!).

Their existence and function is approved and "regulated" (well...) by Rome.  See http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html

I find their use, whether they are men or women, to be, at least in the U.S., excessive and distracting.  There are situations, such as at some of the Masses at the parish I belong to, where their participation is justified (of our 4 priests we have 2 who are old and physically ailing, one of whom is semi-retired who are not physically up to serving Holy Communion to hundreds of parishioners at a time, and we have only one deacon at the moment who is only there occasionally.)

If a vote were held about the use of EMOE's I would vote to limit their use drastically and to restrict it to men and to ensure that they had thorough, comprehensive training with at least annual "re-training" workshops.   

Thank you for the clarification, so be to sure, non-ordained laity, including women, do in fact on certain occasions dispense the Holy Communion? Theologically, how is this explained in the Catholic Church in the context of (a) the hardly feminist writings of Apostle Paul and (b) the theology of the priests representing Christ when they give the Holy Communion.  These are the issues that came up with girls perform altar services in our other related threads, so I am curious how the Catholic Church resolves these theological issues.  In Ethiopian Orthodox only Ordained clergy can touch or handle the Holy Communion and further definitely then not women since they can't be ordained in the first place.  There is plenty else for women and laity to do in the Church, but dispensing the Holy Communion we see as rightfully the responsibility of the clergy.  So I am very curious how the Latins, the adept scholars that they are, have resolved these historic issues.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10
Jonathan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 794


WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2012, 12:55:46 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




First of all, the *only* "Eucharistic ministers" in the Catholic Church are priests and deacons.  Those who assist them, when necessary (would that that were always the case!) are called "Extraordinary eucharistic ministers" or "extraordinary ministers of the eucharist".  These people, whether men or women are not ordained, and depending on which parish of which diocese they are in they get training that varies from excellent to almost none (that's a whole other issue!).

Their existence and function is approved and "regulated" (well...) by Rome.  See http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_con_interdic_doc_15081997_en.html

I find their use, whether they are men or women, to be, at least in the U.S., excessive and distracting.  There are situations, such as at some of the Masses at the parish I belong to, where their participation is justified (of our 4 priests we have 2 who are old and physically ailing, one of whom is semi-retired who are not physically up to serving Holy Communion to hundreds of parishioners at a time, and we have only one deacon at the moment who is only there occasionally.)

If a vote were held about the use of EMOE's I would vote to limit their use drastically and to restrict it to men and to ensure that they had thorough, comprehensive training with at least annual "re-training" workshops.   

Thank you for the clarification, so be to sure, non-ordained laity, including women, do in fact on certain occasions dispense the Holy Communion? Theologically, how is this explained in the Catholic Church in the context of (a) the hardly feminist writings of Apostle Paul and (b) the theology of the priests representing Christ when they give the Holy Communion.  These are the issues that came up with girls perform altar services in our other related threads, so I am curious how the Catholic Church resolves these theological issues.  In Ethiopian Orthodox only Ordained clergy can touch or handle the Holy Communion and further definitely then not women since they can't be ordained in the first place.  There is plenty else for women and laity to do in the Church, but dispensing the Holy Communion we see as rightfully the responsibility of the clergy.  So I am very curious how the Latins, the adept scholars that they are, have resolved these historic issues.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

In Alexandria (from which Ethiopia received Christianity), Communion was administered in the hand, so every man woman and child held the Body. It was also common practice to take the Body home. This stopped when Christianity became wider spread. In a small community, there is no danger. In a large community, it is easier/more likely for someone to sneak in unawares, and take the Body to commit sacrilege and mock Christianity. This does not seem to be a significant problem in the RC Church today, where the Eucharistic ministers are responsible for observing that each communicant places the body in their mouth before moving on. So it does not seem fair to say that there are unresolved historic issues here with women handling the Body. It is still the priest who represents Christ in the consecration.

That said, I still disagree with this practise. At the feeding of the multitude, Christ blessed, then the Apostles distributed to the groups of 50. While it is not wrong for women to touch the Body (for us it is since there have been rules past against it, which we must obey, but it is not intrinsically wrong), it is certainly not ideal for women to be distributing Communion in a parish. But no more wrong than men doing it. It is the role of bishops, presbyters, and deacons to distribute, to carry Communion to the people. (Note though that if a priest blesses, and then gives to a deacon to distribute, that does not in an way diminish the priests representation of Christ in the Liturgy).
Logged
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine
Posts: 10,015


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2012, 04:45:45 PM »

From the Code of Canon Law, Title II, Canon 230, para.3:

"When the need of the Church warrants it and ministers are lacking, lay persons, even if they are not lectors or acolytes, can also supply certain of their duties, namely, to exercise the ministry of the word, to preside offer liturgical prayers, to confer baptism, and to distribute Holy Communion, according to the prescripts of the law."  http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_PV.HTM#2.1.0.2.0.0.230
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,082


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2012, 05:08:08 PM »

I'm not a big fan of extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist in the first place. The priest is to be an icon of Christ, and in the liturgy, we receive grace from Christ. It points to a particular reality of the spiritual life. We are not active, nor are we the initiators. It is God who gives us grace. It is he who pursues us. Thus, it is most appropriate that we receive Holy Communion from the hands of the priest. We (the Church) are the bride. Christ is the groom. 

Call me 'old fashion' but I still favor only the Priest and/or Deaconate administering Holy Communion.  End of story...
Logged
William
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2012, 05:58:01 PM »

My mom is one of half a dozen Eucharistic ministers at her parish every week.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,103


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 09:05:56 PM »

I have seen nuns be given this task sometimes. No, they don't have women deacons.

That was a joke.

People used to receive Eucharist every Sunday to take It daily and now there are protests against receiving It in hands. I do not see any sense in that.

This.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church
Posts: 12,736


Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου

fleem
WWW
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2012, 09:30:48 PM »

I'm not a big fan of extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist in the first place. The priest is to be an icon of Christ, and in the liturgy, we receive grace from Christ. It points to a particular reality of the spiritual life. We are not active, nor are we the initiators. It is God who gives us grace. It is he who pursues us. Thus, it is most appropriate that we receive Holy Communion from the hands of the priest. We (the Church) are the bride. Christ is the groom. 

Call me 'old fashion' but I still favor only the Priest and/or Deaconate administering Holy Communion.  End of story...

I think this is the best way to go. The RCC had a priest shortage up until a few years ago, and they still have a deacon shortage from the looks of it. Maybe if they try to get more deacons, they won't have to resort to lay Eucharistic ministers in so many parishes- and Communion will look orderly again, for once. Lax behavior at Communion was one of the reasons I wanted to leave that church in the first place.
Logged

Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?

Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied.

http://spcasuncoast.org/
Orthodox11
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,999


« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2012, 08:34:10 AM »

This does not seem to be a significant problem in the RC Church today, where the Eucharistic ministers are responsible for observing that each communicant places the body in their mouth before moving on.

At the Catholic secondary school I attended, whenever a Mass was held at the school many of the kids would keep the wafer in their mouth, take it out and stick it under the pew like a piece of bubble gum when they went to sit back down.

I think the problem is more with school masses than with the method of distribution though.
Logged
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine
Posts: 10,015


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2012, 09:08:27 AM »

This does not seem to be a significant problem in the RC Church today, where the Eucharistic ministers are responsible for observing that each communicant places the body in their mouth before moving on.

At the Catholic secondary school I attended, whenever a Mass was held at the school many of the kids would keep the wafer in their mouth, take it out and stick it under the pew like a piece of bubble gum when they went to sit back down.

I think the problem is more with school masses than with the method of distribution though.

Or, perhaps more specifically, a lack of catechesis and discipline at that particular school.  Interesting how easy it is to extrapolate from the specific to the general, often times incorrectly.  But, kids being kids, hey....anything is possible  laugh.
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 01:53:24 PM »

This does not seem to be a significant problem in the RC Church today, where the Eucharistic ministers are responsible for observing that each communicant places the body in their mouth before moving on.

At the Catholic secondary school I attended, whenever a Mass was held at the school many of the kids would keep the wafer in their mouth, take it out and stick it under the pew like a piece of bubble gum when they went to sit back down.

I think the problem is more with school masses than with the method of distribution though.
That's terrible. Did anyone ever notify the Priest that this was going on? They certainly should have.
Logged
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,082


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2012, 03:13:47 PM »

This does not seem to be a significant problem in the RC Church today, where the Eucharistic ministers are responsible for observing that each communicant places the body in their mouth before moving on.

At the Catholic secondary school I attended, whenever a Mass was held at the school many of the kids would keep the wafer in their mouth, take it out and stick it under the pew like a piece of bubble gum when they went to sit back down.

I think the problem is more with school masses than with the method of distribution though.
That's terrible. Did anyone ever notify the Priest that this was going on? They certainly should have.


So much for Catechism Classes.....
Logged
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine
Posts: 10,015


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2012, 03:52:18 PM »

This does not seem to be a significant problem in the RC Church today, where the Eucharistic ministers are responsible for observing that each communicant places the body in their mouth before moving on.

At the Catholic secondary school I attended, whenever a Mass was held at the school many of the kids would keep the wafer in their mouth, take it out and stick it under the pew like a piece of bubble gum when they went to sit back down.

I think the problem is more with school masses than with the method of distribution though.
That's terrible. Did anyone ever notify the Priest that this was going on? They certainly should have.


So much for Catechism Classes.....

Yup.  All catechism classes should be denounced, cancelled, and banned because of a single anecdote  at a single Catholic secondary school.  After all, because of that one reported set of incidents, that just proves beyond all doubt whatsoever that all catechism classes everywhere and at any time are totally ineffectual and useless.  Got it.

You never miss a chance to try to poke the Catholic Church in the eye with a sharp stick, do you? 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 03:53:57 PM by J Michael » Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,228


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2012, 03:57:48 PM »

Quote
All catechism classes should be denounced, cancelled, and banned because of a single anecdote  at a single Catholic secondary school
Yep. Abolish the papacy, crumble Rome to the ground and come back to Orthodoxy with sackcloth and ashes and all will be forgiven  laugh

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine
Posts: 10,015


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2012, 04:13:09 PM »

Quote
All catechism classes should be denounced, cancelled, and banned because of a single anecdote  at a single Catholic secondary school
Yep. Abolish the papacy, crumble Rome to the ground and come back to Orthodoxy with sackcloth and ashes and all will be forgiven  laugh

PP

I assure you, my Catholicism is quite orthodox.  Thanks for the offer, but no thanks  laugh  Crumbling Rome to the ground would just result in a big mess with lots of dead hedonistic Italians.   And, the waste of all that wonderful pasta and sausage and vino and those shoes...oh, those handmande Italian shoes... laugh  (how I wish I could afford some!!)
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,228


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2012, 04:15:16 PM »

Quote
All catechism classes should be denounced, cancelled, and banned because of a single anecdote  at a single Catholic secondary school
Yep. Abolish the papacy, crumble Rome to the ground and come back to Orthodoxy with sackcloth and ashes and all will be forgiven  laugh

PP

I assure you, my Catholicism is quite orthodox.  Thanks for the offer, but no thanks  laugh  Crumbling Rome to the ground would just result in a big mess with lots of dead hedonistic Italians.   And, the waste of all that wonderful pasta and sausage and vino and those shoes...oh, those handmande Italian shoes... laugh  (how I wish I could afford some!!)
laugh
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,082


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2012, 05:27:23 PM »


You never miss a chance to try to poke the Catholic Church in the eye with a sharp stick, do you?  
[/quote]

As a former RC with 12 years of parochial education under my belt, I can certainly speak my mind on how Catholic education has degraded over the years.  This IS a sharp stick in the eye of those who are incapable of teaching the youth how to properly honor and respect the host when it is received.  Heck, we had nuns making sure that this sort of ABOMINATION didnt happen.  Oh, and before I forget, these kids are above the age of reason and this sort of practice is condemning them regardless of "KIDS WILL BE KIDS"....

« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 05:55:10 PM by JoeS2 » Logged
kevlev
Site Supporter
Member
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic Christian (Catechumen)
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 116


Lord have mercy


« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2012, 11:41:28 PM »

Quote
All catechism classes should be denounced, cancelled, and banned because of a single anecdote  at a single Catholic secondary school
Yep. Abolish the papacy, crumble Rome to the ground and come back to Orthodoxy with sackcloth and ashes and all will be forgiven  laugh

PP

I assure you, my Catholicism is quite orthodox.  Thanks for the offer, but no thanks  laugh  Crumbling Rome to the ground would just result in a big mess with lots of dead hedonistic Italians.   And, the waste of all that wonderful pasta and sausage and vino and those shoes...oh, those handmande Italian shoes... laugh  (how I wish I could afford some!!)

Okay, okay... Forget the sackcloth and ashes. Just bring a good meal and shoes for all. Wink
Spoiler: iz not srs
Logged

From my youth have many passions warred against me, but do Thou Thyself defend and save me, O Saviour.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,531


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2012, 11:52:58 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I don't mean to stir controversy, but I just learned of this by coincidence today.  I'm a bit late in learning about this, but I am also not a Catholic Smiley

What do y'all think about female Eucharistic ministers? I know we disagree, obviously by a lot of the backlash just as the idea of girls wearing the same vestments as altar boys, but seriously, what is y'all opinion?  In particular, what do our resident Catholic boardies think.  Could some of the Catholics here perhaps explain their experience or reasoning with this? I am curious more so than judgemental about this.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I was at a funeral at a Roman Catholic Church a few months ago. Yup, there were two older women in pastel dresses who stood on the stage where the alter was located. They distributed the Eucharist.

I was at a memorial service last year for a lapsed Catholic. A priest conducted a service and then spoke. He said that you don't need to attend Church to go to Heaven. He said we should not believe anyone who tells us otherwise. I guess that was supposed to be comforting for the family. 
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2012, 01:33:09 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I don't mean to stir controversy, but I just learned of this by coincidence today.  I'm a bit late in learning about this, but I am also not a Catholic Smiley

What do y'all think about female Eucharistic ministers? I know we disagree, obviously by a lot of the backlash just as the idea of girls wearing the same vestments as altar boys, but seriously, what is y'all opinion?  In particular, what do our resident Catholic boardies think.  Could some of the Catholics here perhaps explain their experience or reasoning with this? I am curious more so than judgemental about this.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I was at a funeral at a Roman Catholic Church a few months ago. Yup, there were two older women in pastel dresses who stood on the stage where the alter was located. They distributed the Eucharist.

I was at a memorial service last year for a lapsed Catholic. A priest conducted a service and then spoke. He said that you don't need to attend Church to go to Heaven. He said we should not believe anyone who tells us otherwise. I guess that was supposed to be comforting for the family. 
What was he supposed to say, "so-and-so is in hell right now"?
Logged
dzheremi
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,028


« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2012, 01:37:46 PM »

It is possible to not lie, and instead address God's mercy, which both the lapsed and the active depend on. I don't think the message that we don't need to attend church is comforting in the least. At best, it gives false hope and an excuse to be frivolous in this life. That's not right.
Logged

choy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,316


« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2012, 12:10:49 AM »

It is possible to not lie, and instead address God's mercy, which both the lapsed and the active depend on. I don't think the message that we don't need to attend church is comforting in the least. At best, it gives false hope and an excuse to be frivolous in this life. That's not right.

I agree.  The priest could have focused on talking about God's mercy and how it is available for all.  He doesn't have to make things up for the feelings of the family.
Logged
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,105


« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2012, 04:03:24 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I don't mean to stir controversy, but I just learned of this by coincidence today.  I'm a bit late in learning about this, but I am also not a Catholic Smiley

What do y'all think about female Eucharistic ministers?
I know we disagree, obviously by a lot of the backlash just as the idea of girls wearing the same vestments as altar boys, but seriously, what is y'all opinion?  In particular, what do our resident Catholic boardies think.  Could some of the Catholics here perhaps explain their experience or reasoning with this? I am curious more so than judgemental about this.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
I abhor them and wouldn't step foot in a Church that makes use of them.

More VII liberal garbage.

You can keep them, altar girls and their "clown masses". Roll Eyes
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2012, 06:45:44 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
Logged
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,228


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2012, 07:48:36 AM »

This reminds me of my friend's wedding recently when the deacon performing the wedding prayed the following:

"Lord may <name> and <name> be blessed with long life, and that they may see their children's children, and aww, what the heck their children's children's children. Amen"

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,082


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2012, 08:59:18 AM »

This reminds me of my friend's wedding recently when the deacon performing the wedding prayed the following:

"Lord may <name> and <name> be blessed with long life, and that they may see their children's children, and aww, what the heck their children's children's children. Amen"

PP

How Quaint
Logged
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2012, 07:26:14 PM »


You never miss a chance to try to poke the Catholic Church in the eye with a sharp stick, do you?  

As a former RC with 12 years of parochial education under my belt, I can certainly speak my mind on how Catholic education has degraded over the years.  This IS a sharp stick in the eye of those who are incapable of teaching the youth how to properly honor and respect the host when it is received.  Heck, we had nuns making sure that this sort of ABOMINATION didnt happen.  Oh, and before I forget, these kids are above the age of reason and this sort of practice is condemning them regardless of "KIDS WILL BE KIDS"....


[/quote]

I agree with you Joe!
Logged

Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,105


« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2012, 02:55:59 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.



Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2012, 03:13:54 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.





Why do you stick around then? 
Logged

stanley123
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Roman Catholic
Posts: 3,809


« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2012, 04:29:54 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.





Why do you stick around then? 
People registered with the SSPX consider themselves Catholics, but do not accept most of the novelties introduced after Vatican II. Priests at the SSPX are not excommunicated, but at the same time, they are not considered to be in full communion with the  post Vatican II Catholic Church.
Logged
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,105


« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2012, 08:36:38 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.





Why do you stick around then? 
I don't attend Novus Ordo Mass.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Moderated
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,105


« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2012, 08:37:30 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.





Why do you stick around then? 
People registered with the SSPX consider themselves Catholics, but do not accept most of the novelties introduced after Vatican II. Priests at the SSPX are not excommunicated, but at the same time, they are not considered to be in full communion with the  post Vatican II Catholic Church.
I'm not SSPX or Sede.

Just sayin.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2012, 11:15:49 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.
Logged
stanley123
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Roman Catholic
Posts: 3,809


« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2012, 11:25:37 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.
This is just a question: What do you think of the following Catholic Mass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_nqtp3VrU
Everyone seems to be having such a good time?
Logged
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2012, 01:15:37 AM »

I have seen nuns be given this task sometimes. No, they don't have women deacons.

That was a joke.

People used to receive Eucharist every Sunday to take It daily and now there are protests against receiving It in hands. I do not see any sense in that.

But still, the giver on Sunday for the rest of the week was the priest.  Christ gave to the Apostles, and the Apostles gave to the people. 
Logged
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2012, 01:26:22 AM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.
This is just a question: What do you think of the following Catholic Mass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_nqtp3VrU
Everyone seems to be having such a good time? 

They seem to be having a blast. 

Note:  thought of the average parishioner-- "please don't let this monstrosity come out of its costume and eat me"

Logged
Father H
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian--God's One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: UOCofUSA-Ecumenical Patriarchate
Posts: 2,523



« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2012, 01:28:17 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

I don't mean to stir controversy, but I just learned of this by coincidence today.  I'm a bit late in learning about this, but I am also not a Catholic Smiley

What do y'all think about female Eucharistic ministers? I know we disagree, obviously by a lot of the backlash just as the idea of girls wearing the same vestments as altar boys, but seriously, what is y'all opinion?  In particular, what do our resident Catholic boardies think.  Could some of the Catholics here perhaps explain their experience or reasoning with this? I am curious more so than judgemental about this.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Not really about women Eucharistic ministers.  Is it because is a woman that is abberation? 
Logged
LBK
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,244


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2012, 03:29:38 AM »

Quote
If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.

Wyatt, I was at a confirmation of a young boy earlier this year. The local RC bishop officiated, as is the custom. After the service (prerecorded singing with karaoke-style bouncing ball lyrics on a projector screen) ended, the newly-confirmed were ushered by the priest to the space behind the altar table. Girls as well as boys. The bishop joined them there. The kiddies were being typical kiddies - a bit of jostling, a bit of giggling, curiosity at the objects on the Table. Little hands touching the Table. The bishop simply stood there, smiling with everyone gathered.

I was shocked and mortified at this complete lack of respect and reverence for the holiest part of the church, and all under the direct supervision of the bishop. I'm yet to be convinced that this is simply an aberration. What would be the point of anyone complaining to the priest or bishop?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 03:30:45 AM by LBK » Logged
elijahmaria
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 6,473



WWW
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2012, 12:19:41 PM »

Quote
If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.

Wyatt, I was at a confirmation of a young boy earlier this year. The local RC bishop officiated, as is the custom. After the service (prerecorded singing with karaoke-style bouncing ball lyrics on a projector screen) ended, the newly-confirmed were ushered by the priest to the space behind the altar table. Girls as well as boys. The bishop joined them there. The kiddies were being typical kiddies - a bit of jostling, a bit of giggling, curiosity at the objects on the Table. Little hands touching the Table. The bishop simply stood there, smiling with everyone gathered.

I was shocked and mortified at this complete lack of respect and reverence for the holiest part of the church, and all under the direct supervision of the bishop. I'm yet to be convinced that this is simply an aberration. What would be the point of anyone complaining to the priest or bishop?

In that case you write to Rome.  And you keep writing or you just move to Orthodoxy and take pot shots at the Church you just left.  It is really quite simple.

M.
Logged

ZealousZeal
Gainsaying Helpmeet
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: ✔
Posts: 2,655


Never cease to intercede for us, your children.


« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2012, 01:52:28 PM »

clown masses
In your experience, do these exist outside the world of the internet?
What does that matter?

There are a lot of abuses within the "New Mass", just because some are reported on the Internet you're saying it's not true?

And no, I haven't personally attended a "clown mass", but I've seen my share of abuses with my own eyes.
That wasn't my point. People who are opponents of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, or just opponents of the Catholic Church in general, often cite "proof" of clown masses online as a basis for their argument as if they are a common occurrence. From everything I've heard/read, if they exist at all it is a very isolated thing. Other abuses are another thing altogether. If abuses are occurring, the more prudent thing to do, rather than completely writing off the Ordinary Form Mass altogether, would be to speak to the Priest, or to the Bishop of the diocese it is happening in, etc.
This is just a question: What do you think of the following Catholic Mass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_nqtp3VrU
Everyone seems to be having such a good time?

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen that exact video thrown out in a discussion of liturgical abuses, I could buy my own puppet costume. Literally just about every time. And, that's the only video of a clown mass I've ever seen.
Logged

"For this God is our God forever and ever; He will be our guide, even to the end." Psalm 48:14
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.167 seconds with 72 queries.