However, the Holy Synod definitely should discipline those who question its authority, integrity, sexuality, humanity etc. Maybe the Monomakhos blog is a surrogate maybe it isn't however any lay person calling the Holy Synod a Gay Cabal can and should be held acountable.
Who is questioning the authority of the Holy Synod? Christ Himself lambasted the Sanhedrin for their corruptness…yet he defended their authority "for they sit in the seat of Moses." Are you saying this or any synod is de facto possessing integrity, that it cannot err. Do not their deeds either commend or accuse them. And if they are reprovable are you saying the Body should not call them to account? As for Gay Cabal, how many does it take to make a cabal gay or otherwise? As for Gay…how many of the Bishops of the OCA sitting or retired are known homosexuals. How many support at least tacitly the acceptance of gay lifestyles? How many of those who are homosexual have been known to possess copious amounts of gay porn? How many investigations into reported gay activity among the bishops and other clergy have quashed? How many priests or other clergy who brought these actives to light have been rewarded…and how many punished/left in limbo/sent beyond murphy's stump? Don't know it all rises to the level of a Cabal…but there are enough of that persuasion with influence to create a problem for the OCA at it's highest levels of administration.
It is for the Holy Synod to determine the appropriate course of action. I merely let them know how this ongoing scandal is affecting the image and reputation of the OCA.
No doubt that it does…but I don't think so much in the direction you mean.
Yes, kept quiet while his so called supporters have spread lies and falsehoods lionozing him and villifying the Holy Synod.
Just what lies about the Holy Synod have been told? I'll agree big chunks of the Holy Synod have been villianized…but from what I can see it's largely because they were acting in a villainous manner. It may be overheated…but not unsubstantiated or meritless. One thing is for sure the Holy Synod has done a very poor job of defending and demonstrating the rightness of their decision. If nothing else they have a huge PR problem.
He was lied about? villified?
Yes…absolutely. Your own posts that seem to border on hatred of him are a case in point. Why did the Holy Synod ask for his resignation. What specific cause did they give. Was that cause true or not true? If not true, they either lied or were lied to. If lied to, then they've had plenty of time to make apology and correction. They have not…so if the stated reason they gave or not true…then there is only one way to characterize their deed.
what about the Holy SYnod that went out of their way to try work with a man that said one thing and did another. Did you even read the SMPAC report on Pokrov. Please read page 7 which was more than enough to remove him from office for gross incompetence and negligence.
What about it? That wasn't why they asked him to resign. If those things were the reason, then that should have been stated explicitly as the reason. Beyond that…look at who wrote and signed that document. These people opposed and worked against His Beatitude from the very beginning…he was supposed to trust them, "work" with the very people trying to undermine him as Metropolitan?" As far as I am concerned its all bad apples and bad trees. I don't trust the source of the document, so I don't know how far or in what way to trust the document itself. As I remember his days as our Metropolitan, it seems he as all the time being disrespected and hindered by those who should have been his support. I don't blame him for not working well with them. Who could?
If you are wondering where you have heard that line about keeping people quiet before you must have heard it from Abp Jonah and Fr Fester.
No…I think it was Jesus.
If you don't see conspiracy theories on that blog then it is because you gullibally believing them.
I see a lot of facts and unpacking of facts that strike me as reasonable. It doesn't make the Holy Synod look good…but if that's where the facts point, that's where they point. While I may take some exception to overly strident tones there on occasion…the general thrust of the information does not lead me to believe it to be the product of nutters and extremists. I see the concern of people who love Christ and His Church who think the leadership of the OCA is in serious trouble and has done some seriously questionable things, things that need correcting now, if the OCA is to survive and grow as an Orthodox communion.
So let me get this straight it is your premise that the poor martyr Abp Jonah was brutally and seditiously attacked by every member of the Holy Synod, the Metropolitan Council, the officers of the church and many others in leadership roles with in the church?
It wasn't what I wanted to think…but what they did and what they've since has made it much more thinkable. First I don't know if it was the whole synod who asked him to resign. It may have been the Lesser synod which was improperly represented as the whole synod. Still, if that was the case the whole synod hasn't broken ranks on the matter and suggests they are in agreement with it or are not willing to challenge it. There is no serious question of the sedition. The facts and the way the Holy Synod has acted towards the Body and towards His Beatitude speak volumes. Personally I'm not convinced that the whole synod to a man went after him or even necessarily wanted him gone…but those who did not for one reason or another have not spoken up or out. Some see them as too weak or old…some see them as cowards in the face of bullying episcopal brothers. I don't know their reasons. They've not shared them. Their collective wall of silence in the face of what is obviously great love and admiration for Metropolitan Jonah is puzzling to the point of creepy. So something is going on. Something is seriously amiss with the Holy Synod. What makes it even more troubling is that the MP seemed to take a dim view of their actions…and let them know it…and since they have rebuffed representatives of the MP, basically brushing them off as if they and what they thought didn't matter for us. You don't just go poking our Mother Church, previously biggest ally and supporter in the eye with stick. As I said, something is very wrong at the highest levels of the leadership of the OCA.
As for Metropolitan Jonah…they would have to kill him to make a true martyr of him…but they seem to be working double time to enroll him among the ranks of the Confessors who were unjustly persecuted and suffered for Christ's sake.
The whole world is wrong and he is innocent and right?
Hardly the whole world…basically just the present leadership of the OCA. The leader of the largest Orthodox confession in the world took Metropolitan Jonah's side, as do a great many of the clergy and faithful in the OCA.
Strange how many of these attacks from his supporters end the same way. "Just return him to the DOS" *wink *wink* Or else what? We will continue to try to destroy the Church until we get our way?
What is strange "wink wink" about wanting a good man as the bishop of the DoS. He was handpicked by our former and much beloved Archbishop, and we thought highly of his choice. If the OCA no longer wants him as Metropolitan, then give him back to us.
As for destroying the Church…it is not his supporter I see being destructive to the church but rather those who ousted him…they have compromised us seriously in face of the other Orthodox church in the world. Who can take us seriously now and for a long time to come? As for the unwashed masses getting their way…were the masses wrong to keep agitating against and hounding the bishops who signed off on the Council of Florence until they either repented or were driven away? Archbishop Dimitri said near the time of his death that if the faithful do not fight for what they have, they will lose everything. We may well be in one of those situations that requires the faithful to be very vocal and very "in the face" to preserve the faith from the deeds and desires of unfaithful shepherds.
ANd btw I have personally disproven many of the lies spread on that blog with actual facts. Also why is it that none of the pro Abp Jonah supporters there or here can provide evidence for their assertions? I provided my evidence to George and he had no rebuttal other than syosset is corrupt. I would more than happy to pm the post.
Too date I've not seen anything that would suggest the core assertions on "that blog" on this matter are mistaken. If you wish to PM me about it fine…but from what I've seen since July, the notion that Syosset is corrupt doesn't seem far from the mark. Even if it weren't it is an improper administrative structure for an Orthodox church. It has far too much power over the Holy Synod when it should be the other way around. The Holy Synod should not be on track to be reduced to high ranking employees of a professional central administration composed of priests and laity. Person I give good bit of weight to the clash of cultures theory. I think there are competing visions of what Orthodoxy in America is and how it should grow and Syosset stands on one side of that divide and Metropolitan Jonah and those who support him on the other. Then there are those on both sides who think things are so messed up now the best course is to surrender our autocephalacy and go back to the MP or elsewhere for the foreseeable future. More and more I think there is merit to that position.