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Author Topic: Has anyone heard anything about Met.Jonah resigning? / Met Jonah Resigns / Holy Synod Releases Official Statement about Met. Jonah's Resignation  (Read 35074 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: July 13, 2012, 01:37:08 PM »

I've never understood what the OCA's Holy Synod's problem was with Metropolitan Jonah; there are plenty of Synods across the world and through history that were led by a primate who isn't prone to collaborate with his fellow hierarchs.  How much collaborating does any one think Patriarch Bartholomew does with the Holy and Sacred Synod of Constantinople,  unlike his predecessor who exhibited a humble and submissive persona?  Not too much is my guess.  Was His Eminence forced to resign because he is a political conservative and all the members of the Synod are liberals?  Hard to believe, if that is the case.  Yet, how could each member of the Synod be so opposed to his primatial leadership, that they would unanimously vote to force his resignation?

No one has even alleged that that His Eminence violated canons in his primatial leadership, or that he lacks spirituality.  Thus, I would beg all of you with influence in the OCA, and all common members of the OCA, to lobby in support of fair treatment of His Eminence in retirement.  Suggest a life long salary equivalent to the pension he would have earned if he served in the primatial see for a long term; no less than $70,000.00, but no more than $100,000.00 annually, plus the OCA should provide him with health care plan permanently--requiring him to participate somewhat in payment of its premiums, and a small housing subsidy, possibly.  Yes, this would be an administrative burden, but he never sought the primacy and he isn't guilty of canonical infractions, or abuse of his office (unlike his two predecessors) during his tenure.  Grant him these benefits with a well worded contract, appropriately executed, approved by the OCA's legal counsel, the Holy Synod of Bishops, and the Metropolitan Council, so that future church leadership cannot dispose of the contract, if they feel it is a waste of the OCA's resources.  It is not uncommon for a church to provide for a retired hierarch with life long benefits, in the GOAA we had a few line items in our National Ministries budget related to Archbishop Iakovos' Office, former Archbishop of America, until His Eminence's passing from this life.  Of course, the contract should require him to maintain a priestly behavior, to not speak or act in opposition to OCA policies and initiatives.  Metropolitan Jonah probably should not be elected to another diocesan see because a disgruntled bishop, one who perceives he was forced to resign without cause, is prone to not being a team player, and if he didn't have the proficiency to effectively serve the primatial see, he probably doesn't have the appropriate skills to serve and administer a diocese effectively.  Perhaps he could be encouraged to write and publish, to do things that benefit the church, using he talents that he does possess, talents that made him a successful Abbot of a monastery.  Hopefully he can afford to purchase a small retirement home that would be near a monastery, so that he could join in the life of a monastery, as he is a monastic.  I would also suggest he be permitted a place of honor at church-wide banquets, as the retired primate of the OCA, and that he be invited to celebrate the Divine Services of the church at national and diocesan related activities.

May the OCA have the maturity to permanently treat their former primate with the respect he deserves; and may His Eminence find peace of mind in his retirement.  "Eis polla eti, Despota!"

It would be interesting to compare how Met. HERMAN is being treated with what they want to do with Met. JONAH.

I would be inclined to agree with this suggested analogy, but the issue, as noted elsewhere above, is that Metropolitan Jonah resigned and his resignation was accepted.  Metropolitan Herman served as a priest, bishop and primate for so long that he earned a pension, whether the church desired for him to be able to secure his pension or not, they had no choice because there is no mechanism to preclude his receipt of his pension.  However, Metropolitan Jonah, having served as a monastery's abbot, while a Hieromonk, probably did not earn a salary or participate in the pension system--though I don't know for sure, given his age and lack of significant tenure in the pension system, is not eligible for a pension; even if he qualified for disability, his lack of time in the pension system would preclude his receipt of a disability payment, in an amount that could support him.  That's why I recommended that a salary be granted to him.

Metropolitan Herman should have been deposed. Since we don't really have a concept of retirement in the church, couldn't he still be deposed?

Matters of retirement (or not) are strictly within the purview of each local church. In this case, the OCA Statute is definitive and yes, there is such a thing as retirement in the OCA.

It is not only in local churches but in the universal canons, as is evident in both the Pedalion and the Kormchaya Kniga.  The Council of 861 clearly recognizes in its 16th canon the right of a bishop including a primate to "resign" (retire) from his episcopal appointment and yet retain the "honor and office of the episcopate" and have legitimate reassignment.  
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 01:37:43 PM by FatherHLL » Logged
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« Reply #91 on: July 13, 2012, 02:29:16 PM »

Thanks for the response.

But I think this is going to start taking the thread down another route if we continue, so this is my last post on the matter here.

Agreed, and back on topic (whatever it is now).

I think my point, which Augustin responded to, is that the line between the Church's role in personal faith and "culture warrioring" isn't always as clearly defined as he portrays it to be. 

Shouldn't the Church try to at least public express it's position, if discernible, on certain matters?  The effectiveness of these attempts is a completely different topic though. The abortion issue may be complicated, but what about the death penalty?  If the Church publicly opposes that, is this still "culture warrioring"?  If it publicly condemns greed and inclinations to not take care of the poor, is that "culture warrioring"? 

Or, as I suspect, is the pejorative term only applied to positions that Augustin and others personally disagree with? 

I'm unsure as to what the Church's role should be in the "culture war," and it may be slanted towards Evangelical type positions, focusing too much on things it perhaps shouldn't.  But Christ and the early Christians seemed inclined to speak publicly and try to influence society.  I'm not sure why the OCA trying to do that is necessarily a bad thing.

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« Reply #92 on: July 13, 2012, 02:37:21 PM »

Thanks for the response.

But I think this is going to start taking the thread down another route if we continue, so this is my last post on the matter here.

Agreed, and back on topic (whatever it is now).

I think my point, which Augustin responded to, is that the line between the Church's role in personal faith and "culture warrioring" isn't always as clearly defined as he portrays it to be.  

Shouldn't the Church try to at least public express it's position, if discernible, on certain matters?  The effectiveness of these attempts is a completely different topic though. The abortion issue may be complicated, but what about the death penalty?  If the Church publicly opposes that, is this still "culture warrioring"?  If it publicly condemns greed and inclinations to not take care of the poor, is that "culture warrioring"?  

Or, as I suspect, is the pejorative term only applied to positions that Augustin and others personally disagree with?  

I'm unsure as to what the Church's role should be in the "culture war," and it may be slanted towards Evangelical type positions, focusing too much on things it perhaps shouldn't.  But Christ and the early Christians seemed inclined to speak publicly and try to influence society.  I'm not sure why the OCA trying to do that is necessarily a bad thing.

I would like to discuss this more openly among other things on the board about the OCA right now, but too many people know who I am around here and would be able to easily extrapolate the persons involved I would be referring to in any comments I made.

In general, I can just say that among older members of the Church, whether convert or cradle, there has seemed to be pretty much an constant wincing during the Metropolitan's time in power.

Like most things, this is not bound up in a singular issue, like the culture wars. All anyone has to do is to speak with more than a few OCA Priests and persons who have been active within the Church politic for sometime to get an idea about the sources of hope and frustration with the Metropolitan.

The "culture wars" have just become the easiest to articulate and to understand by many who are not privy or care to be about the problems which have been growing within the OCA as of late (and historically, I don't want to suggest there much new under the sun).

« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 02:38:47 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #93 on: July 13, 2012, 03:32:21 PM »

Thanks for the explanation.  I think I understand a bit better now.  I'm a bit too close to the center to easily pick up on the broader perspective.
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« Reply #94 on: July 13, 2012, 06:20:13 PM »

Peter is absolutely right, especially in his first & second points.  I've had the blessing of BEING at the Synod in Constantinople & it was beyond brotherly.  The Patriarch was like a Papou & The bishops were like his grandchildren.  He took them out to a museum, just to give them a cultural break from the meetings & etc.  It was very kind & gentle.  He does though emanate authority, as a hierarch of the Ecumenical Throne should. 

I've never understood what the OCA's Holy Synod's problem was with Metropolitan Jonah; there are plenty of Synods across the world and through history that were led by a primate who isn't prone to collaborate with his fellow hierarchs.  How much collaborating does any one think Patriarch Bartholomew does with the Holy and Sacred Synod of Constantinople,  unlike his predecessor who exhibited a humble and submissive persona?  Not too much is my guess.
That's only your guess. You don't know. Besides, I don't think it quite fair to compare the EP's synod with the synod of the OCA. Each synod has its own personality.

Was His Eminence forced to resign because he is a political conservative and all the members of the Synod are liberals?  Hard to believe, if that is the case.  Yet, how could each member of the Synod be so opposed to his primatial leadership, that they would unanimously vote to force his resignation?
Yes, the unanimity says a lot of things that just a majority vote does not say.

No one has even alleged that that His Eminence violated canons in his primatial leadership, or that he lacks spirituality.  Thus, I would beg all of you with influence in the OCA, and all common members of the OCA, to lobby in support of fair treatment of His Eminence in retirement.
I'm not aware that Metr. Jonah is retiring. It's quite likely that he'll accept another episcopal assignment. Regardless of what you say in speculation about how he may act as a former primate, I have more faith in his maturity than that.
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« Reply #95 on: July 13, 2012, 07:43:21 PM »

I have moved all discussion of abortion & culture wars into a new thread in the Free-For-All section:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=45832.0

I have kept the non-abortion discussion of culture wars here as it does not detract TOO much from the OP, but I definitely do not want it to become its own discussion, unless it's in a new thread.  Having a few posts that veer off is OK, having a whole separate discussion is not. 

It would be my preference that this thread strictly deals with Met./Hierarch/Bishop Jonah & the OP. 

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« Reply #96 on: July 13, 2012, 07:55:22 PM »

It would be my preference that this thread strictly deals with Met./Hierarch/Bishop Jonah & the OP. 

-Serb1389. General Fora Moderator

Ok.  Now to the OP:


It has been reported on the Yahoo Orthodox Forum and on the MOnomahkos blog that Met.Jonah has resigned..any truth to this?

Yes, Met. Jonah has, in fact, resigned.

/thread


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« Reply #97 on: July 13, 2012, 08:32:09 PM »

Peter is absolutely right, especially in his first & second points.  I've had the blessing of BEING at the Synod in Constantinople & it was beyond brotherly.  The Patriarch was like a Papou & The bishops were like his grandchildren.  He took them out to a museum, just to give them a cultural break from the meetings & etc.  It was very kind & gentle.  He does though emanate authority, as a hierarch of the Ecumenical Throne should.  

I've never understood what the OCA's Holy Synod's problem was with Metropolitan Jonah; there are plenty of Synods across the world and through history that were led by a primate who isn't prone to collaborate with his fellow hierarchs.  How much collaborating does any one think Patriarch Bartholomew does with the Holy and Sacred Synod of Constantinople,  unlike his predecessor who exhibited a humble and submissive persona?  Not too much is my guess.
That's only your guess. You don't know. Besides, I don't think it quite fair to compare the EP's synod with the synod of the OCA. Each synod has its own personality.

Was His Eminence forced to resign because he is a political conservative and all the members of the Synod are liberals?  Hard to believe, if that is the case.  Yet, how could each member of the Synod be so opposed to his primatial leadership, that they would unanimously vote to force his resignation?
Yes, the unanimity says a lot of things that just a majority vote does not say.

No one has even alleged that that His Eminence violated canons in his primatial leadership, or that he lacks spirituality.  Thus, I would beg all of you with influence in the OCA, and all common members of the OCA, to lobby in support of fair treatment of His Eminence in retirement.
I'm not aware that Metr. Jonah is retiring. It's quite likely that he'll accept another episcopal assignment. Regardless of what you say in speculation about how he may act as a former primate, I have more faith in his maturity than that.

I don't necessarily disagree with you or Peter, but I would add, Patriarchs/Primates/Heads, are people, and have discernible differences in their personal administrative styles.  Patriarch Bartholomew is a strong administrator and an aggressive Patriarch.  He demands personal loyalty beyond what would commonly be considered to be typically expected.  I think his aggressive style is what fires up those on this forum and elsewhere who demonstrate lack of respect for the ancient canonical privileges of the Ecumenical Patriarch.  But his predecessor, Patriarch Dimitrios, of Blessed Memory, was the opposite, a humble man whose Christ-like humility was obvious just looking at him.  (I was moved when he entered Constitution Hall in Washington D.C. to celebrate the Hierarchal Divine Liturgy during the first pastoral visit of an Ecumenical Patriarch to the Western Hemisphere in 1990.)  During his patriarchy, the Holy Synod was strong led by Metropolitan Meliton of the Senior See of Chalcedon, later Metropolitan Chrysostom, and still later Metropolitan Joakim of Mitileni, and the current Patriarch, Metropolitan Bartholomew of Chalcedon, during the last few years of +Dimitrios' tenure, while he served as the Director of the  Patriarch's Personal Office, the office which handles the patriarch's responsibilities in pan-Orthodox matters.  +Dimitrios' predecessor, Patriarch Athenagoras, of Blessed Memory, was a dominant leader too.  My point is, it is as much the personality of the person of the patriarch, as it is the position he holds.
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« Reply #98 on: July 15, 2012, 04:30:05 PM »

There was a "Jonah" commemorated during the Divine Liturgy today.  I do not now if this is the patron saint to whom His Eminence is devoted.  If he is, "Eis Polla Eti, Despota." While we pray that the OCA's Holy Synod and the Metropolitan Council honors him with a life long salary and routine benefits, after all, he was duly elected to the OCA's primatial throne, a position he did not solicit, and did not violate canons during his tenure.
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« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2012, 01:17:29 AM »

There was a "Jonah" commemorated during the Divine Liturgy today.  I do not now if this is the patron saint to whom His Eminence is devoted.  If he is, "Eis Polla Eti, Despota." While we pray that the OCA's Holy Synod and the Metropolitan Council honors him with a life long salary and routine benefits, after all, he was duly elected to the OCA's primatial throne, a position he did not solicit, and did not violate canons during his tenure.
and one he was actually elected to by the people, unlike his predecessors...
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« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2012, 11:40:26 AM »

I just read this in Abbot Tryphon's morning blog:
Quote
If we trust God and pray for our bishops, the Holy Spirit will guide them in their roll as our shepherds, the Church will stay the course, and the "gates of hell shall not prevail against her (Matthew 16:18)".

I know here and elsewhere I've been quick to question the synod's motives in asking for asking for Met. Jonah's resignation, just short of making accusations.  But this consideration puts a different completion on things….have I been trusting God on this….have I earnestly prayed for the Holy Synod…well If I haven't and they messed up in some way…then who bears at least some of the responsibility for that….me. It is incongruous for me to complain/suggest that the synod may not have done it's job properly with respect to Metropolitan Jonah if I have not done mine in prayer with respect to the Holy Synod.

I still do not understand why they did what they did, and still feel a great deal of admiration for Metropolitan Jonah and hope he will be given a good diocese over which to preside and not just put out to pasture as it were.  That said, in my zeal for the offense I felt towards Met. Jonah, I sinned with respect to the Synod…very willing to entertain accusations in my heart if not explicitly with my words. I do not know if they have done well or not with regard to their decision. What I do know is I did not do well with regard to my responsibility to pray for them. Forgive me.

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« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2012, 12:55:26 PM »

Very sad and disconcerting, I really felt he was taking the Church in the right direction.
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« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2012, 02:12:22 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html
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« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2012, 02:27:50 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. 
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« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2012, 04:05:48 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

This was sad news to hear of all this controversy.  The Church is a human place, full of our human experience, all the ups and downs.  We then celebrate our accomplishes together, and grieve our losses together, as one body, one family, as the human body of Christ.

I say this as a convert, but perhaps it was a bit premature to enthrone an underexperienced convert to such a ranking position of leadership? The Church has so many theological and cultural ins and outs, I would simply feel uncomfortable if a convert like myself, no matter how devout or involved, were to take the helm of leadership.  I trust God in all decision, especially in electing our blessed Clergies, so I don't necessarily doubt the decisions, so much as if my own Metropolitan or Patriarch were a convert, I would be constantly praying that God grant him the wisdom, strength, and depth of character to navigate the world of priests.  I have spent a lot of time close to clergy, and I've had the privilege to sit in on several meetings with bishops about church  business, and in all honesty, its such a laborious work, that I am always in admiration.  I've learned we call our priests Father because they are very much like earthly fathers in our lives.

Dads have to navigate a world of jealous and bickering children, of immature and selfish demands, of sincerely mending broken hearts, of being a shoulder to cry on, and while at the same time having to always be DAD, and so that means tough love, laying down the law, leading by direct and tangible example of doing everything first and showing by example who the children should act.  The priests are always in the middle of our lives, and I respect them so much for what they do.  I pray that the best leadership in the inward spirit of  a man, and not the outward are enthroned as our leaders.  I pray that God help us all, as we have these transitions, indeed in Coptic Alexandria as well as here in the Orthodox Church of America.  

If another convert takes the helm, let us continue in sincere and supportive prayer for him, that God grants him the strength of character to hold it down in his seat and office, with the rugged and yet tender tenacity of the holy and blessed Saint Athanasius Smiley

stay blessed,
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« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2012, 04:20:31 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf
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« Reply #106 on: July 16, 2012, 04:43:43 PM »

Holy Synod Statement

Wow...Is this true? Metropolitan Jonah was involved in sexual corruption within the Church? Or is this just propoganda from the Synod to scapegoat Jonah? I have trouble believing this. Yesterday at Liturgy the Dean of the Orthodox Churches from Oregon was visiting my parish and said that he knew Metropolitan Jonah and they actually went fishing together in Alaska and he was such a great guy.
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« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2012, 04:51:49 PM »

Wow. Basically the Synod opened fire in the Metropolitan's reputation.

I dont think they should have released this.

PP
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« Reply #108 on: July 16, 2012, 04:54:06 PM »

I think that it was more of, he knew about it and did not follow the synod's requests on the matter.

PP
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« Reply #109 on: July 16, 2012, 05:00:52 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. 

Your bishop is doing a nice job of denigrating Metropolitan Jonah without saying why he showed a lack of administrative skills, and  why he refused to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility?  Also, in which ways did he show himself not to be  truthful and accountable to his peers?  By not stating these facts and giving others the chance to reach their own conclusions about the Metropolitan, and instead saying it would affect an innocent person, he is subtly implying that the Metropolitan is guilty of doing something to an innocent person without stating any facts.   I don't think this speaks well, either for your bishop, or for his peers.

From what was written, I see the problems with Metropolitan Jonah to be more of a personal nature,  than an actual concern for the people in the OCA and what would be best for them spiritually.   Sad
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« Reply #110 on: July 16, 2012, 05:02:39 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

This was sad news to hear of all this controversy.  The Church is a human place, full of our human experience, all the ups and downs.  We then celebrate our accomplishes together, and grieve our losses together, as one body, one family, as the human body of Christ.

I say this as a convert, but perhaps it was a bit premature to enthrone an underexperienced convert to such a ranking position of leadership? The Church has so many theological and cultural ins and outs, I would simply feel uncomfortable if a convert like myself, no matter how devout or involved, were to take the helm of leadership.  I trust God in all decision, especially in electing our blessed Clergies, so I don't necessarily doubt the decisions, so much as if my own Metropolitan or Patriarch were a convert, I would be constantly praying that God grant him the wisdom, strength, and depth of character to navigate the world of priests.  I have spent a lot of time close to clergy, and I've had the privilege to sit in on several meetings with bishops about church  business, and in all honesty, its such a laborious work, that I am always in admiration.  I've learned we call our priests Father because they are very much like earthly fathers in our lives.

Dads have to navigate a world of jealous and bickering children, of immature and selfish demands, of sincerely mending broken hearts, of being a shoulder to cry on, and while at the same time having to always be DAD, and so that means tough love, laying down the law, leading by direct and tangible example of doing everything first and showing by example who the children should act.  The priests are always in the middle of our lives, and I respect them so much for what they do.  I pray that the best leadership in the inward spirit of  a man, and not the outward are enthroned as our leaders.  I pray that God help us all, as we have these transitions, indeed in Coptic Alexandria as well as here in the Orthodox Church of America.  

If another convert takes the helm, let us continue in sincere and supportive prayer for him, that God grants him the strength of character to hold it down in his seat and office, with the rugged and yet tender tenacity of the holy and blessed Saint Athanasius Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie

His Beatitude (is this still right, I recall reading somewhere that it's now His Eminence but I don't believe it was on the OCA website?) was not a new convert when he was ordained a bishop.  It was in 1978 that he was received into the Church, via a Moscow Patriarchate parish in San Diego.   In '85, he graduated with a Masters in Divinity from St. Vladimir's, and in '88 with a Masters in Theology in dogmatic theology.  Then he was a novice at Valaam for a while before he founded St. John's Monastery, where he was abbot for over a decade.

Whatever problems there were with His Beatitude's tenure as primate, and with His Beatitude, they were not due to too little time in the Orhtodox Church.
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« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2012, 05:02:40 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf

Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?
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« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2012, 05:02:40 PM »

Wow. Basically the Synod opened fire in the Metropolitan's reputation.

I dont think they should have released this.

PP

So they should have allowed people to continue to accuse all of the bishops of the Synod of having it out for His Beatitude, and of getting rid of him because he opposes abortion and gay marriage (with the obvious implication that the other bishops therefore support abortion and gay marriage)?  So they should have allowed the reputation of every other bishop in the Synod to be besmirched?
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« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2012, 05:02:40 PM »

I think that it was more of, he knew about it and did not follow the synod's requests on the matter.

PP

No.  It is: he knew about it and did not follow OCA policies on the matter.
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« Reply #114 on: July 16, 2012, 05:12:38 PM »


If that is true, that he turned a blind eye....then I feel sorry for him.

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« Reply #115 on: July 16, 2012, 05:14:13 PM »

His Beatitude Metropolitan Jonah had, unfortunately, a cloud of expectation surrounding him, given previous scandals with previous Metropolitans. I think many saw what they hoped to see, and now they have the disappointment. Our bishops and clergy are men like the rest of us, having various strengths and weaknesses. Not all men consecrated bishops are able to execute the duties of their office in a way that is beneficial, though if they were in other positions such as supporting roles, they would do much good.
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« Reply #116 on: July 16, 2012, 05:19:24 PM »

Wow. Basically the Synod opened fire in the Metropolitan's reputation.

I dont think they should have released this.

PP

They had to release it because +Jonah supporters were attacking the Holy Synod as a whole and individual bishops by name. They were also threatening all sorts of actions, to include schism, if the Holy Synod did not tell the world the reasons behind the resignation.
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« Reply #117 on: July 16, 2012, 05:20:36 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


This was sad news to hear of all this controversy.  The Church is a human place, full of our human experience, all the ups and downs.  We then celebrate our accomplishes together, and grieve our losses together, as one body, one family, as the human body of Christ.

I say this as a convert, but perhaps it was a bit premature to enthrone an underexperienced convert to such a ranking position of leadership? The Church has so many theological and cultural ins and outs, I would simply feel uncomfortable if a convert like myself, no matter how devout or involved, were to take the helm of leadership.  I trust God in all decision, especially in electing our blessed Clergies, so I don't necessarily doubt the decisions, so much as if my own Metropolitan or Patriarch were a convert, I would be constantly praying that God grant him the wisdom, strength, and depth of character to navigate the world of priests.  I have spent a lot of time close to clergy, and I've had the privilege to sit in on several meetings with bishops about church  business, and in all honesty, its such a laborious work, that I am always in admiration.  I've learned we call our priests Father because they are very much like earthly fathers in our lives.

Dads have to navigate a world of jealous and bickering children, of immature and selfish demands, of sincerely mending broken hearts, of being a shoulder to cry on, and while at the same time having to always be DAD, and so that means tough love, laying down the law, leading by direct and tangible example of doing everything first and showing by example who the children should act.  The priests are always in the middle of our lives, and I respect them so much for what they do.  I pray that the best leadership in the inward spirit of  a man, and not the outward are enthroned as our leaders.  I pray that God help us all, as we have these transitions, indeed in Coptic Alexandria as well as here in the Orthodox Church of America.  

If another convert takes the helm, let us continue in sincere and supportive prayer for him, that God grants him the strength of character to hold it down in his seat and office, with the rugged and yet tender tenacity of the holy and blessed Saint Athanasius Smiley

stay blessed,
habte selassie

His Beatitude (is this still right, I recall reading somewhere that it's now His Eminence but I don't believe it was on the OCA website?) was not a new convert when he was ordained a bishop.  It was in 1978 that he was received into the Church, via a Moscow Patriarchate parish in San Diego.   In '85, he graduated with a Masters in Divinity from St. Vladimir's, and in '88 with a Masters in Theology in dogmatic theology.  Then he was a novice at Valaam for a while before he founded St. John's Monastery, where he was abbot for over a decade.

Whatever problems there were with His Beatitude's tenure as primate, and with His Beatitude, they were not due to too little time in the Orhtodox Church.

I wasn't suggesting that he was new to Orthodox, but we was new to the rank of Bishop, I understand he had only been elevated to bishop weeks before his enthronement, that is what I meant by underexperienced.  As to the issue of ranking clergy being converts, I meant for that analysis to be separate from the lack of leading experience comment.  Again, I don't mean to disrespect or be sacrilegious to the clergies, I respect God's decisions in that regard.  My comment about Bishops who are converts was not to belittle their value or negate their worth, rather for us laity who serve in parishes under their jurisdiction should be with them (a) patient [i.e. flexible], (b) humble, and (c) in constant prayer for them.  Orthodox is a complicated place and there is a lot of subtlety going on, and as a convert, it seems that I wouldn't ever want that responsibility, and further, by his resignation, it appears Bishop Jonah felt the same way Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #118 on: July 16, 2012, 05:22:09 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. 

Your bishop is doing a nice job of denigrating Metropolitan Jonah without saying why he showed a lack of administrative skills, and  why he refused to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility?  Also, in which ways did he show himself not to be  truthful and accountable to his peers?  By not stating these facts and giving others the chance to reach their own conclusions about the Metropolitan, and instead saying it would affect an innocent person, he is subtly implying that the Metropolitan is guilty of doing something to an innocent person without stating any facts.   I don't think this speaks well, either for your bishop, or for his peers.

From what was written, I see the problems with Metropolitan Jonah to be more of a personal nature,  than an actual concern for the people in the OCA and what would be best for them spiritually.   Sad

You would have to read the entire letter to understand the particulars of the Holy Synod's case against +Jonah.
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« Reply #119 on: July 16, 2012, 05:25:27 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf

Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?

I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.
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« Reply #120 on: July 16, 2012, 05:36:44 PM »

I think that it was more of, he knew about it and did not follow the synod's requests on the matter.

PP

This is exactly how I read it too.  I think the Freeh report on Penn State must have made them sit up and pay attention too.
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« Reply #121 on: July 16, 2012, 05:38:36 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf

Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?

I would like to know this too.   As far as I know he hasn't spoken publicly since his resignation.
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« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2012, 05:43:01 PM »

Could be things said and written to the Synod.
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« Reply #123 on: July 16, 2012, 05:45:25 PM »

Wow. Basically the Synod opened fire in the Metropolitan's reputation.

I dont think they should have released this.

PP

I'm going to assume the 'rationale' behind the destruction of the Metropolitan's reputation is that they are doing it for the good of the Church and that  the end justifies the means.   It's the concept of 'economia' going haywire.   Well I have news for anyone who thinks this way, the Church is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit doesn't work through sin...so no matter how one looks at it, to slander and calumniate another person is  a sin. Angry
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« Reply #124 on: July 16, 2012, 05:47:21 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

What did they want him "treated' for?
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« Reply #125 on: July 16, 2012, 06:05:03 PM »

Wow. Basically the Synod opened fire in the Metropolitan's reputation.

I dont think they should have released this.

PP

I'm going to assume the 'rationale' behind the destruction of the Metropolitan's reputation is that they are doing it for the good of the Church and that  the end justifies the means.   It's the concept of 'economia' going haywire.   Well I have news for anyone who thinks this way, the Church is the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit doesn't work through sin...so no matter how one looks at it, to slander and calumniate another person is  a sin. Angry
Zenovia,

This is a very serious matter besetting the Orthodox Church in America right now. Your continued judgment of the Holy Synod of the OCA based merely on hearsay and gross conjecture is very insensitive and not at all in keeping with what we need to do at this moment. In fact, it's exactly the kind of calumny you condemn. Therefore, speaking only as a poster, I'm asking you to back off and refrain from submitting any more posts like this.
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« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2012, 06:09:26 PM »

You would have to read the entire letter to understand the particulars of the Holy Synod's case against +Jonah.

Point of order: It's not really a 'case against +Jonah' because the Holy Synod has (once again) decided to forgo canonical procedures and actually hold a spiritual court. At some point, the question the Holy Synod really should address is why, if they have actual an actual case against Metropolitan Jonah (or Metropolitan Herman, or Metropolitan Theodosius, or Bishop Nicholai of Alaska or...), they never actually prosecute that case in the manner prescribed by the canons of the Church (or indeed the statutes of the OCA). Canonical due process protects not only the accused but the accusers by bringing the accusations out for actual scrutiny by all sides. By avoiding following canonical process, the bishops of the Synod are basically asking for the matter to be tried 'in the court of public opinion', with rumor and gossip flying and their own motives and claims just thrown into the mix.
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« Reply #127 on: July 16, 2012, 06:14:50 PM »

+Matthias and the Synod did the right thing I think in releasing that statement. I think many of us, still scared and reeling from the previous scandals (and abuse we or unnamed acquaintances suffered) and we desire some amount of transparency.

One can release an explanation behind a move like this which affects those of us who are members of the OCA. But that explanation doesn't have to release additional names or information that may endanger other parties involved in whatever issues caused the request for retirement.

I am glad it was our own Bishop Matthias who first released this information. From the brief times I've gotten to speak with him and from what I've heard from others, he is a good man and a good successor to Archbishop Job.
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« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2012, 06:19:24 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf

Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?

I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.

Would you please provide us with links to where His Eminence's supporters have posted public comments about his resignation?
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« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2012, 06:29:55 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf

Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?

I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.

Would you please provide us with links to where His Eminence's supporters have posted public comments about his resignation?

Read Monomakhos, which has well over 1,000 comments on the matter.
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« Reply #130 on: July 16, 2012, 06:33:02 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf

Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?

I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.

Would you please provide us with links to where His Eminence's supporters have posted public comments about his resignation?

Also curious about the claim of information that could have only come from +Jonah? I've been watching the debate on some of the sites where it's gotten decidedly more heated than here and I can't think of any 'facts' (with the caveat that what are fact is obviously part of what's being fiercely debated) that couldn't have come from multiple sources--including of course members of the Synod who are presumably in possession of all the facts.
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« Reply #131 on: July 16, 2012, 06:37:12 PM »

Is there a chance that Bishop Benjamin of San Francisco/West Coast will become the new metropolitan? He is my local Bishop and I've met him once before and he seems like a really nice man.
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« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2012, 06:38:14 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf

Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?

I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.

Would you please provide us with links to where His Eminence's supporters have posted public comments about his resignation?

Read Monomakhos, which has well over 1,000 comments on the matter.

While I'm sure we were part of the problem, I think monomakhos was a huge part of the vitriolic rumor mill. I don't really think we should rely too much on what is said on there.

There is a difference between feeding (possibly false) rumors and venting frustration in a rant. From what I had read on monomakhos, a lot of it was the former rather than the latter, and sadly I'll admit a lot of it fed my own frustration and anger, even though I knew it was probably B.S.
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« Reply #133 on: July 16, 2012, 06:39:01 PM »

My bishop, +Matthias, has today published a very lengthy new explanation about the reasons why the Holy Synod requested that +Jonah resign, and providing much more detail about the reasons behind the Holy Synod's action.  

A snippet:

"Our request for Metropolitan Jonah’s resignation, or that he take a leave of absence for treatment, came at the end of a rather long list of questionable, unilateral decisions and actions, demonstrating the inability of the Metropolitan to always be truthful and accountable to his peers.  The Metropolitan’s freely-chosen resignation has been characterized by him and others as the result of politics and internal discord among the members of the Holy Synod.  Quite to the contrary, the other members of the Holy Synod stand firmly together in our unanimous astonishment at the Metropolitan’s actions.  We cannot stress enough that while the most recent events are likely the most dangerous for the Church, these represent only the latest in a long series of poor choices that have caused harm to our Church.  We understand and agree that an ability to work or not work well with others, or a challenged administrative skill set, or Metropolitan Jonah’s refusal to comply with the recommendations of the treatment facility, while not the reasons for his requested resignation, were fundamentally related to the consequences of his actions."

http://domoca.org/news_120716_1.html

The same letter was also published at OCA.ORG coming this time in the name of the Holy Synod. The reason given for the publication of this letter was stated in the opening paragraph:

"We, the Holy Synod of Bishops of the Orthodox Church in America, have hesitated to release further details surrounding the resignation of Metropolitan Jonah as Primate of our Church, this in a desire to preserve his dignity and to prevent further harm to an innocent party. We did this knowing there would be appeals for additional information regarding our decision. We also harbored some hope that Metropolitan Jonah would show a willingness to accept responsibility for his actions and failures to act. However, things said and written by Metropolitan Jonah since his resignation have demonstrated that he is not accepting that responsibility." (my emphasis)

http://oca.org/PDF/NEWS/2012/2012-0716-holy-synod-statement.pdf

Where, exactly, did His Beatitude write anything since he resigned?

I cannot find anything that he has said publicly. However, plenty of his supporters have said plenty in public, including many hiding behind fake Internet names, citing information that could have come only from +Jonah.

Maybe his supporters are in a position where they would have this information.  To believe that the Metropolitan is going out and saying things deliberately, seems very paranoid to me.  The reason I'm saying this is because I have seen these things occur before.  Satan is alive and well, and there is nothing he is more adept at than putting suspicions in people's minds.   Angry
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« Reply #134 on: July 16, 2012, 08:41:22 PM »

Satan is alive and well, and there is nothing he is more adept at than putting suspicions in people's minds.   Angry

Like planting suspicion in the minds of the faithful that their hierarchs have ousted their metropolitan out of entirely self-serving reasons when that may not be the case?
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