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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #90 on: July 21, 2012, 10:51:03 PM »

Wow. I really wish I hadn't clicked on that video.

At the risk of receiving another dot, if you (the general "you", not anybody posting in this thread) really care about Jesus Christ's skin color, I don't care what church you were baptized into or what you call yourself, you've completely missed the point of His coming, and are a fool. Sadly, I have noticed these kinds of stupid comments on all kinds of Ethiopian Orthodox mezmur videos on YT and elsewhere, where "Africa is suffering because of white Jesus" and all that garbage. I don't know if the people leaving them are Rastafarians or not, but there does seem to be an undercurrent of anti-Christ commentary in certain strains of "black liberation" thought that reacts to "white Jesus" as apparently foisted upon the world (as though the Ethiopians do not have their own depictions of Christ...now who is really devaluing or infantilizing the Africans?!  Roll Eyes), and quite frankly it strikes me as ignorant and stupid. This "rejoice because Israel is black" thing isn't really helping change my belief that Rastafarianism and Orthodoxy don't belong within driving distance of one another...I mean, can you imagine if I recorded a mariachi song about how I'm happy because Christ is Mexican? (There are an awful lot of Mexicans named Jesus, after all...) That would be ridiculous. And if I said it was Orthodox, I can't imagine any Orthodox person I know being very happy with my misrepresentation of the Church and its faith, which does not privilege any race over another.


Read up on the Virgen of Guadalupe sometime.


Too many people here are confusing love of one's racial identity with racial superiority. There is nothing wrong with the former, only the latter. Some would like to ignore that Scripture describes Our Lord as having hair like wool and feet like bronze. If Rastas embrace such descriptions, who is anyone else to condemn them for it?



Selam
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 10:56:54 PM by Gebre Menfes Kidus » Logged

"If we are unwilling to accept any truth that we have not first discovered and declared ourselves, we demonstrate that we are interested not in the truth so much as in being right." ~ Thomas Merton ~
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« Reply #91 on: July 21, 2012, 10:55:07 PM »

Don't really need to. She's kind of a big deal where I grew up. The church in the next town over from my hometown is named after her (my hometown's RC church is named after St. John the Baptist; not bad), and you find her in statue, car decal, and every other form you can think of around those parts. What does she have to do with not rejoicing because of Jesus' race? (Or, rather, some people's preoccupation with what they think Jesus looked like.)
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Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #92 on: July 21, 2012, 11:00:36 PM »

Don't really need to. She's kind of a big deal where I grew up. The church in the next town over from my hometown is named after her (my hometown's RC church is named after St. John the Baptist; not bad), and you find her in statue, car decal, and every other form you can think of around those parts. What does she have to do with not rejoicing because of Jesus' race? (Or, rather, some people's preoccupation with what they think Jesus looked like.)


Because Our Lady appeared to the Mexican people looking "morena," i.e. brown skinned. That doesn't mean that Mestizos are a superior race. But the Mexican people take great comfort and joy in the fact that Our Lady's appearance validated them as a people and as a race.


Selam
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"If we are unwilling to accept any truth that we have not first discovered and declared ourselves, we demonstrate that we are interested not in the truth so much as in being right." ~ Thomas Merton ~
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« Reply #93 on: July 21, 2012, 11:22:07 PM »


the Acclaimed great song!

Was this what the Savior of the World the Word of the Father came to the world for? to make us happy because Jesus Christ Is black and his hair IS nappy!”

Was this the faith that the martyrs gave their life for? that ‘ Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy!’?

Was this the orthodox Faith the Apostles taught ? that we need to rejoice because ‘ Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy!”? that Mosses Is Black and his hair Is nappy!’. “ David IS black and his hair Is nappy!, ‘Israel is black and their hair is Nappy!”

Was this the Faith that is the Reason of our Hope? That “ Jesus Christ is Black and his hair is nappy!”?

Was this the Faith that is the source of our joy ? that ‘ makes me happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy!”

Was this the covenant  between God and men that the Patriarchs kept with zeal , that  calls us to be “ happy because  David Is black and his hair is nappy!”

What did Saint Paul mean when he said Romans 9:1-33  “ I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. “ he must have meant , “be happy Israel is black and his hair is Nappy!”

Was this what the Apostle Matthew trying to tell us when he labored to write the genealogy of Our Lord? So that we will be happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy?

Perhaps there was no point in the Patriarchs receiving the covenant that the messiah being born from the line of Isaac.

No This man and those like him who claim to be Orthodox Tewahedo would tell us  this :let us be happy because Jesus Christ is Lord because he is black and his hair is nappy!Let us be happy in worshipping the black and nappy haired African Jesus because then  and Only then, we will be worshipping ourselves as we want to do. Our black skin and our nappy hairs, let us prostrate ourselves to them , let us proclaim him Lord who has the black skin and nappy hair as we do. Yes he is Lord because he is Black and nappy haired, we will not bow to those white skinned humans, the inferno of hell preserved for them like Babylon. While the black Israel stands watching and gloating with  a smile of satisfaction when the white Babylon burns! Aye! Happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is Nappy! Will be the song of the black Israel in the New Zion.

They will tell us : No no this aint theology, its culture ..  you see, when I say Jesus IS black I am not  lying it’s my culture , When I say Moses is black therefore I am happy with his hair also being nappy, it is my culture. Oh please do not talk about orthodoxy, cant you tell that I am orthodox like you? why are we arguing? I don’t think we are disagreeing anywhere, we agree , we agreeeeeee,I tell you we agree, why are you saying no we do not agree? why are you being so stubborn! I am tewahedo like you, come on  be happy Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy! This is tewahedo orthodox, I am tewahedo orthodox, please do not judge, do not say I am not orthodox, what will happen if we meet in heaven, I will be singing and being happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy! While you my sister you are going to be punished for pontificating over little matter such as the Orthodox Faith. Why don’t we stop arguing over it and why don’t we all love one another as the black Jesus Christ our Lord has said? Why are you judging me?Aye! Happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy! Happy because Moses is black and his hair is nappy! Israel is black and his hair is nappy!

Some might call him a modern day psalmist even, meaning he is one if you sing  those lyrics along with him with utter devotion and dedication, his song like David’s psalm will lead you to Theosis.

This is clearly this Rastafarian man’s Faith, his Theology, the reason of his Joy, the reason of his Hope, why he wants to die and be buried there while the priests pray for him specifically with the ‘ gi’iz language!’ be it culture or theology for this guy and those like him, NONE of it is Orthodoxy! None of it is the Teaching of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church!

GMK, you said hiwot will not worship with this man; you are darn right I WILL NOT!!!


Psalm 137:5-6 5 if I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand be forgotten.
6 Let my tongue cleave to my jaws, if I do not remember thee: If I make not Jerusalem the beginning of my joy.
Psalm 27:4
One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to inquire in his temple.

Psalm 84:10
For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather stand at the threshold of the house of my God, than dwell in the tents of wickedness.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Just because anyone joins the procession does not mean that person is orthodox as evidenced by this video, those young Ethiopians were singing a different hymn than him , because the Holy Spirit is the fount of Wisdom He has allowed the testimony of their faith to be unwittingly recorded by this man:

The first mezmur briefly heard in the beginning of the song was the mezmur, “serawite melaektihu , lemedehane alem yiqewmu,/ Before the Savior of the World stand Hosts of Angeles/  at the end of the song there is another mezmur heard as the entire church sings it ‘ ne amin be Ab, we ne Amin be waled we ne Amin ba Manifes Qidus!’/We believe in the Father, We believe In the Son and We believe in the Holy Spirit!’ then before the prayer of absolution is said by the priest, there is a recitation of  this prayer 12x “ Egzio mehare ne kirstos!/ Christ Our Lord have mercy on us!’’ ‘ be ente egzietene maryam meharene Kristos’/ For the sake of our Lady Mary , Christ have mercy on us!’
Then you hear the absolution of the priest.

This was their worship; this is my worship, the Right Worship! The Orthodox Way!

I tell you if they knew what that man was saying in his language, as he danced over the graves of the Departed Orthodox Faithful,….am I not allowed to grieve over this slander over this lie over this desecration…. Ethiopians are very humble, and hospitable, but they are very fierce in guarding what’s theirs to guard also and I assure you their Orthodox Faith to the Orthodox of Ethiopia It is literally EVERYTHING. They find no joy better than to find more brothers and sisters in the Orthodox Faith, however they do not suffer the false brethren the open enemy is treated with better respect than the false brethren. The false brethren who dare to lie in the name of our most Holy ones! Our Anchorites, our monks and priest, these are our hearts!  Chameleons who are one thing with certain groups and another when they are with another group are to be avoided more than the wild beasts. Be glad those people did not know what he was singing about.. the anathema would have been dramatic to see.


The political offence, I will ignore, for instance, that hand symbol is a joke on him and those who imitate him. But that is more politics and for all practical purposes irrelevant.

As to Icons, when the Church teaches Christ is all and in all, we are not talking about altering historical reality of the Saviors birth, or the relevance of the Old Covenant and the importance of the genealogy of the Messiah, and the Promise of the Holy Spirit. Those who paint Christ as Chinese, and through him the blessed virgin and all others do so to impart a theological truth, they however never declare such lie as to dare say that the Messiah Is Chinese according to his human genealogy. That would be utter lie and we know where lies come from, who their father is, and why he lies.


 Is it true they do not know? what is the bible they have read enough to keep quoting for their purpose? Or is it a matter of distortion of what one knows well enough to distort it convincingly to some.a con artist has to know his art to perform it well does he not?  How many epistles were sent to the people of Corinth? How many epistles do we have now in our possession? Can we say we have not heard ? can we say we did not know? who Jesus Christ  is? If Thessaloniki  abandoned her idols and worshiped Christ, those of us who have so much with us, the words of the Savior Himself, the words of the Apostles, we have Moses and the Prophets, yet we still think we can say, we do not know when it comes to our idolatry that is done in the name of Jesus no less!  All mouth will be silenced on that day, no excuse will save us, like the Friend of God Abraham have said, if we cannot listen to Mosses and the Prophets we cannot listen to the Risen Christ, nor will we listen to anyone who might tell us to abandon our futile ways.




A wise man recognizes error but dwells on truth. A wise man recognizes the log in his own eye rather than condemning the speck in his brother's eye. A wise man worships God regardless of who stands beside him. A wise man is patient with the ignorance of others, for he knows that apart from Christ he is the chief of fools. A wise man is quick to find and emphasize areas of agreement rather than magnifying differences and rejoicing in divisions. The wise man is not necessarily one who is theologically or philosophically erudite, but one who is humble, patient, forgiving, and kind. The wise man understands the words of St. Peter: "Love covers a multitude of sins. [I Peter 4:8]

You say that you will not worship beside Rastafarians. That is your choice. But when the Holy Qurbana is offered to me (an unworthy sinner) then I will open my mouth to receive it, regardless of who stands in front of me or who stands beside me. And when our Priests carry the Holy Tabots among the people, I will bow down in gratitude and reverence regardless of who bows down beside me. The glories and Mysteries of God are too wonderful for me to be distracted by judgments about my brother. But that is me, and you are certainly free to reject the Body and Blood of Christ if you feel you are in the presence of unworthy people. That is the beauty of our Faith: God will not force you to worship or receive Him.


"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails."  [I Corinthians 13:4-8]


"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." [Galatians 5:22-23]




Selam

gebre, I respect your right to worship as this man does, now you can not invite me to join you guys , I must respectfully vehemently decline. I worship as the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does, I  neither need  nor see any reason to exchange my pearl for the rastafarian ash. so Thank you but No thank you.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 11:23:39 PM by Hiwot » Logged

To God be the Glory in all things! Amen!

Only pray for me, that God would give me both inward and outward strength, that I may not only speak, but truly will; and that I may not merely be called a Christian, but really be found to be one. St.Ignatius of Antioch.Epistle to the Romans.
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« Reply #94 on: July 21, 2012, 11:33:08 PM »

Re: Post #93

Eh, if that's what you think it means, I'm not going to argue with you. I mean, I don't really see it that way, but alright. I'm not from Mexico anyway, so who cares. For every Mexican or Mexican-descended person that I know, she's a symbol of the nation, and of the nativization of Christianity for the otherwise racially, culturally, and linguistically disparate Mexican people. That is kind of different than "we are happy because Jesus is black". To say that la Virgen is for all the people equally (thereby mestiza chilangas like my grandmother can identify with her as much as purely Spanish Mexicans, or indigenous Mexicans, or Afro-Mexicans, etc.) is pretty different than saying "the Virgin is a specific color, so we love her". All cultures nativize their religions, if the religions are brought from elsewhere. That's not the problem. The problem is that some might say that they love Christ or the Virgin because they have a certain look to them, which is wrong. I don't doubt that there may be many Mexicans who might say something similar, but not if they think about it for a few minutes before doing so. Or at least I never heard my grandmother say something like that, and she was as old school racist as they come...

Praising a saint (or Christ, of course) as a unifying factor or symbol of a multicultural nation is not the same as doing the same because the saint (or Christ) is the same skin color as you.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 11:33:44 PM by dzheremi » Logged

Gebre Menfes Kidus
"SERVANT of The HOLY SPIRIT"
Warned
Merarches
***********
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Faith: Ethiopian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Tewahedo / Non-Chalcedonian
Posts: 8,291


"Lord Have Mercy on Me a Sinner!"


WWW
« Reply #95 on: July 22, 2012, 12:36:02 AM »


the Acclaimed great song!

Was this what the Savior of the World the Word of the Father came to the world for? to make us happy because Jesus Christ Is black and his hair IS nappy!”

Was this the faith that the martyrs gave their life for? that ‘ Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy!’?

Was this the orthodox Faith the Apostles taught ? that we need to rejoice because ‘ Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy!”? that Mosses Is Black and his hair Is nappy!’. “ David IS black and his hair Is nappy!, ‘Israel is black and their hair is Nappy!”

Was this the Faith that is the Reason of our Hope? That “ Jesus Christ is Black and his hair is nappy!”?

Was this the Faith that is the source of our joy ? that ‘ makes me happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy!”

Was this the covenant  between God and men that the Patriarchs kept with zeal , that  calls us to be “ happy because  David Is black and his hair is nappy!”

What did Saint Paul mean when he said Romans 9:1-33  “ I am speaking the truth in Christ—I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit— that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. “ he must have meant , “be happy Israel is black and his hair is Nappy!”

Was this what the Apostle Matthew trying to tell us when he labored to write the genealogy of Our Lord? So that we will be happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy?

Perhaps there was no point in the Patriarchs receiving the covenant that the messiah being born from the line of Isaac.

No This man and those like him who claim to be Orthodox Tewahedo would tell us  this :let us be happy because Jesus Christ is Lord because he is black and his hair is nappy!Let us be happy in worshipping the black and nappy haired African Jesus because then  and Only then, we will be worshipping ourselves as we want to do. Our black skin and our nappy hairs, let us prostrate ourselves to them , let us proclaim him Lord who has the black skin and nappy hair as we do. Yes he is Lord because he is Black and nappy haired, we will not bow to those white skinned humans, the inferno of hell preserved for them like Babylon. While the black Israel stands watching and gloating with  a smile of satisfaction when the white Babylon burns! Aye! Happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is Nappy! Will be the song of the black Israel in the New Zion.

They will tell us : No no this aint theology, its culture ..  you see, when I say Jesus IS black I am not  lying it’s my culture , When I say Moses is black therefore I am happy with his hair also being nappy, it is my culture. Oh please do not talk about orthodoxy, cant you tell that I am orthodox like you? why are we arguing? I don’t think we are disagreeing anywhere, we agree , we agreeeeeee,I tell you we agree, why are you saying no we do not agree? why are you being so stubborn! I am tewahedo like you, come on  be happy Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy! This is tewahedo orthodox, I am tewahedo orthodox, please do not judge, do not say I am not orthodox, what will happen if we meet in heaven, I will be singing and being happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy! While you my sister you are going to be punished for pontificating over little matter such as the Orthodox Faith. Why don’t we stop arguing over it and why don’t we all love one another as the black Jesus Christ our Lord has said? Why are you judging me?Aye! Happy because Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy! Happy because Moses is black and his hair is nappy! Israel is black and his hair is nappy!

Some might call him a modern day psalmist even, meaning he is one if you sing  those lyrics along with him with utter devotion and dedication, his song like David’s psalm will lead you to Theosis.

This is clearly this Rastafarian man’s Faith, his Theology, the reason of his Joy, the reason of his Hope, why he wants to die and be buried there while the priests pray for him specifically with the ‘ gi’iz language!’ be it culture or theology for this guy and those like him, NONE of it is Orthodoxy! None of it is the Teaching of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church!

GMK, you said hiwot will not worship with this man; you are darn right I WILL NOT!!!


Psalm 137:5-6 5 if I forget thee, O Jerusalem, let my right hand be forgotten.
6 Let my tongue cleave to my jaws, if I do not remember thee: If I make not Jerusalem the beginning of my joy.
Psalm 27:4
One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to inquire in his temple.

Psalm 84:10
For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather stand at the threshold of the house of my God, than dwell in the tents of wickedness.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Just because anyone joins the procession does not mean that person is orthodox as evidenced by this video, those young Ethiopians were singing a different hymn than him , because the Holy Spirit is the fount of Wisdom He has allowed the testimony of their faith to be unwittingly recorded by this man:

The first mezmur briefly heard in the beginning of the song was the mezmur, “serawite melaektihu , lemedehane alem yiqewmu,/ Before the Savior of the World stand Hosts of Angeles/  at the end of the song there is another mezmur heard as the entire church sings it ‘ ne amin be Ab, we ne Amin be waled we ne Amin ba Manifes Qidus!’/We believe in the Father, We believe In the Son and We believe in the Holy Spirit!’ then before the prayer of absolution is said by the priest, there is a recitation of  this prayer 12x “ Egzio mehare ne kirstos!/ Christ Our Lord have mercy on us!’’ ‘ be ente egzietene maryam meharene Kristos’/ For the sake of our Lady Mary , Christ have mercy on us!’
Then you hear the absolution of the priest.

This was their worship; this is my worship, the Right Worship! The Orthodox Way!

I tell you if they knew what that man was saying in his language, as he danced over the graves of the Departed Orthodox Faithful,….am I not allowed to grieve over this slander over this lie over this desecration…. Ethiopians are very humble, and hospitable, but they are very fierce in guarding what’s theirs to guard also and I assure you their Orthodox Faith to the Orthodox of Ethiopia It is literally EVERYTHING. They find no joy better than to find more brothers and sisters in the Orthodox Faith, however they do not suffer the false brethren the open enemy is treated with better respect than the false brethren. The false brethren who dare to lie in the name of our most Holy ones! Our Anchorites, our monks and priest, these are our hearts!  Chameleons who are one thing with certain groups and another when they are with another group are to be avoided more than the wild beasts. Be glad those people did not know what he was singing about.. the anathema would have been dramatic to see.


The political offence, I will ignore, for instance, that hand symbol is a joke on him and those who imitate him. But that is more politics and for all practical purposes irrelevant.

As to Icons, when the Church teaches Christ is all and in all, we are not talking about altering historical reality of the Saviors birth, or the relevance of the Old Covenant and the importance of the genealogy of the Messiah, and the Promise of the Holy Spirit. Those who paint Christ as Chinese, and through him the blessed virgin and all others do so to impart a theological truth, they however never declare such lie as to dare say that the Messiah Is Chinese according to his human genealogy. That would be utter lie and we know where lies come from, who their father is, and why he lies.


 Is it true they do not know? what is the bible they have read enough to keep quoting for their purpose? Or is it a matter of distortion of what one knows well enough to distort it convincingly to some.a con artist has to know his art to perform it well does he not?  How many epistles were sent to the people of Corinth? How many epistles do we have now in our possession? Can we say we have not heard ? can we say we did not know? who Jesus Christ  is? If Thessaloniki  abandoned her idols and worshiped Christ, those of us who have so much with us, the words of the Savior Himself, the words of the Apostles, we have Moses and the Prophets, yet we still think we can say, we do not know when it comes to our idolatry that is done in the name of Jesus no less!  All mouth will be silenced on that day, no excuse will save us, like the Friend of God Abraham have said, if we cannot listen to Mosses and the Prophets we cannot listen to the Risen Christ, nor will we listen to anyone who might tell us to abandon our futile ways.




A wise man recognizes error but dwells on truth. A wise man recognizes the log in his own eye rather than condemning the speck in his brother's eye. A wise man worships God regardless of who stands beside him. A wise man is patient with the ignorance of others, for he knows that apart from Christ he is the chief of fools. A wise man is quick to find and emphasize areas of agreement rather than magnifying differences and rejoicing in divisions. The wise man is not necessarily one who is theologically or philosophically erudite, but one who is humble, patient, forgiving, and kind. The wise man understands the words of St. Peter: "Love covers a multitude of sins. [I Peter 4:8]

You say that you will not worship beside Rastafarians. That is your choice. But when the Holy Qurbana is offered to me (an unworthy sinner) then I will open my mouth to receive it, regardless of who stands in front of me or who stands beside me. And when our Priests carry the Holy Tabots among the people, I will bow down in gratitude and reverence regardless of who bows down beside me. The glories and Mysteries of God are too wonderful for me to be distracted by judgments about my brother. But that is me, and you are certainly free to reject the Body and Blood of Christ if you feel you are in the presence of unworthy people. That is the beauty of our Faith: God will not force you to worship or receive Him.


"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails."  [I Corinthians 13:4-8]


"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law." [Galatians 5:22-23]




Selam

gebre, I respect your right to worship as this man does, now you can not invite me to join you guys , I must respectfully vehemently decline. I worship as the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church does, I  neither need  nor see any reason to exchange my pearl for the rastafarian ash. so Thank you but No thank you.

Again, dear sister, you are fighting demons of your own imagination. I too worship according to the Teachings and Traditions of the Tewahedo Faith, so there is no need for any division here.


Selam
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"If we are unwilling to accept any truth that we have not first discovered and declared ourselves, we demonstrate that we are interested not in the truth so much as in being right." ~ Thomas Merton ~
Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #96 on: July 22, 2012, 12:39:10 AM »

Re: Post #93

Eh, if that's what you think it means, I'm not going to argue with you. I mean, I don't really see it that way, but alright. I'm not from Mexico anyway, so who cares. For every Mexican or Mexican-descended person that I know, she's a symbol of the nation, and of the nativization of Christianity for the otherwise racially, culturally, and linguistically disparate Mexican people. That is kind of different than "we are happy because Jesus is black". To say that la Virgen is for all the people equally (thereby mestiza chilangas like my grandmother can identify with her as much as purely Spanish Mexicans, or indigenous Mexicans, or Afro-Mexicans, etc.) is pretty different than saying "the Virgin is a specific color, so we love her". All cultures nativize their religions, if the religions are brought from elsewhere. That's not the problem. The problem is that some might say that they love Christ or the Virgin because they have a certain look to them, which is wrong. I don't doubt that there may be many Mexicans who might say something similar, but not if they think about it for a few minutes before doing so. Or at least I never heard my grandmother say something like that, and she was as old school racist as they come...

Praising a saint (or Christ, of course) as a unifying factor or symbol of a multicultural nation is not the same as doing the same because the saint (or Christ) is the same skin color as you.


Again, your arguments are against something that I have not said or argued for. That seems to be the consistent point of confusion on this thread. Too many people are applying viewpoints and reasonings to me that I have not held or advocated.


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« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2012, 01:25:49 AM »

Forgive me, Gebre. You posted that "the Mexican people take great comfort and joy in the fact that Our Lady's appearance validated them as a people and as a race", to which I posted that it isn't so much a matter of appearing in a particular skin color (though that did help the native population relate to her), but that people of ALL skin colors and backgrounds came to identify with her as a symbol of the nation, not some supposed ethnic group called "Mexican" (there are Mexicans of all ethnicities). Related to that comment, but unrelated to anything that you specifically wrote (BUT related to the song you posted, and to the general topic of religion and race that subsequently came up as a result), is the criticism that relating la Virgen to the disputed "I'm happy because Jesus is black" idea from the Rastafarian song is not very sound.

So yes, it is related to your posting, as you posted the song that caused the thread to go in this direction in the first place, and then tried to tell me that this discussion relates to la Virgen de Guadalupe. Again, I don't really see it that way.
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« Reply #98 on: July 22, 2012, 03:00:45 AM »

Forgive me, Gebre. You posted that "the Mexican people take great comfort and joy in the fact that Our Lady's appearance validated them as a people and as a race", to which I posted that it isn't so much a matter of appearing in a particular skin color (though that did help the native population relate to her), but that people of ALL skin colors and backgrounds came to identify with her as a symbol of the nation, not some supposed ethnic group called "Mexican" (there are Mexicans of all ethnicities). Related to that comment, but unrelated to anything that you specifically wrote (BUT related to the song you posted, and to the general topic of religion and race that subsequently came up as a result), is the criticism that relating la Virgen to the disputed "I'm happy because Jesus is black" idea from the Rastafarian song is not very sound.

So yes, it is related to your posting, as you posted the song that caused the thread to go in this direction in the first place, and then tried to tell me that this discussion relates to la Virgen de Guadalupe. Again, I don't really see it that way.


I reiterate that I posted the video simply to demonstrate that there in fact are Rastafarians who are Orthodox Christians. Hiwot chose to focus on a single aspect of the song which she misinterpreted as some sort of racist statement which it was not. The brother is singing praises to Our Lord while extolling the beauty of Ethiopia and the glories of the Tewahedo Faith. It would be good if his Christian brethren could sight the virtue in his message rather than focusing on a singular point which is then made into an issue of conflict and division.

Again, no one can point to anything I have said anywhere on this entire forum where I have advocated the superiority of one race over another, or where I have implied that the Ethiopian Orthodox Faith is exclusive to nationality or ethnicity.


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« Reply #99 on: July 22, 2012, 08:08:23 PM »

Quote
I reiterate that I posted the video simply to demonstrate that there in fact are Rastafarians who are Orthodox Christians.

I don't think anyone has disputed the fact that there are those who identify with Rastafarian culture who have been baptised into the Church and who thereby associate with Orthodox faithful communities.

Baptism and association mean very little, however, if one does not fully embrace the Faith; and the question all along has been whether or not one is capable of authentically embracing the fullness of the Faith whilst maintaining their identity as a Rastafarian. I maintain that in theory it is possible. I must admit, however, that your video presents a questionable example of such in practice.

Racial sentiments are not merely "a single aspect" of the song you posted. They clearly constitute a primary theme of the song; they define the chorus and frequently recur throughout the verses.

Hearing these racial sentiments prompted my first proper research into Rastafarian culture. The problem I soon came to discover is that it is a culture that is quite heavily loaded with beliefs and attitudes of a spiritual/religious nature. One such belief and attitude relates to the role and significance of black Africans (which I accounted for in my previous post with reference to respected Rastafarian leaders). I have been unable to find any formal or informal account of this racial belief and attitude that might be considered compatible with an Orthodox worldview. The idea of "viewing Christ through one's cultural lens" is quite vague to me and not one I have ever seen discussed in Orthodox literature. Your own personal inference drawn from some local apparition alleged by a Roman Catholic community is not my idea of a legitimate argument.

I conceded earlier that, generally speaking, we are all inevitably the product of cultures, that the human cultures and subcultures that form and shape our individual identities present us with the tools by which we internalise and express the Faith, and that we have the ability, and in fact the responsibility, to customise our cultural ties and engagements in accordance with the Faith where there is conflict or tension.

Given that a clearly heretical understanding of the idea of Christ being black prevails in the Rastafarian community, I would think that a Rastafarian authentically converting to Orthodoxy would either abandon this particular idea outright, or, if finding some way to individually reinterpret it in a way compatible with Orthodoxy, either a) retain the idea privately and discreetly, understanding that the common interpretation to which it is prone is incompatible with his/her Orthodox beliefs and not wishing either to be misunderstood or to risk promoting/encouraging false ideas, or b) heavily and explicitly qualify any public expression of it in order to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding and consequent risk of encouraging and validating those who hold to heretical conceptions of it.

Perhaps a better example of a Rastafarian Orthodox Christian can be offered by you giving us a personal account of a) what it is about your lifestyle and character that constitute a uniquely Rastafarian identity, b) how it is that these are conducive to and/or compatible with your Orthodox Faith, and, c) what aspects of Rastafarian culture you have felt the need to abandon or have found a way to properly redefine and reinterpret in adapting to the Orthodox Faith. How does that sound?
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« Reply #100 on: July 22, 2012, 08:13:42 PM »

How can you be a Rasta and an Orthodox Christian because Rastas worship Haile Selassie I as God incarnate.
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« Reply #101 on: July 23, 2012, 01:15:30 AM »

Quote
I reiterate that I posted the video simply to demonstrate that there in fact are Rastafarians who are Orthodox Christians.

I don't think anyone has disputed the fact that there are those who identify with Rastafarian culture who have been baptised into the Church and who thereby associate with Orthodox faithful communities.

Baptism and association mean very little, however, if one does not fully embrace the Faith; and the question all along has been whether or not one is capable of authentically embracing the fullness of the Faith whilst maintaining their identity as a Rastafarian. I maintain that in theory it is possible. I must admit, however, that your video presents a questionable example of such in practice.

Racial sentiments are not merely "a single aspect" of the song you posted. They clearly constitute a primary theme of the song; they define the chorus and frequently recur throughout the verses.

Hearing these racial sentiments prompted my first proper research into Rastafarian culture. The problem I soon came to discover is that it is a culture that is quite heavily loaded with beliefs and attitudes of a spiritual/religious nature. One such belief and attitude relates to the role and significance of black Africans (which I accounted for in my previous post with reference to respected Rastafarian leaders). I have been unable to find any formal or informal account of this racial belief and attitude that might be considered compatible with an Orthodox worldview. The idea of "viewing Christ through one's cultural lens" is quite vague to me and not one I have ever seen discussed in Orthodox literature. Your own personal inference drawn from some local apparition alleged by a Roman Catholic community is not my idea of a legitimate argument.

I conceded earlier that, generally speaking, we are all inevitably the product of cultures, that the human cultures and subcultures that form and shape our individual identities present us with the tools by which we internalise and express the Faith, and that we have the ability, and in fact the responsibility, to customise our cultural ties and engagements in accordance with the Faith where there is conflict or tension.

Given that a clearly heretical understanding of the idea of Christ being black prevails in the Rastafarian community, I would think that a Rastafarian authentically converting to Orthodoxy would either abandon this particular idea outright, or, if finding some way to individually reinterpret it in a way compatible with Orthodoxy, either a) retain the idea privately and discreetly, understanding that the common interpretation to which it is prone is incompatible with his/her Orthodox beliefs and not wishing either to be misunderstood or to risk promoting/encouraging false ideas, or b) heavily and explicitly qualify any public expression of it in order to avoid any confusion or misunderstanding and consequent risk of encouraging and validating those who hold to heretical conceptions of it.

Perhaps a better example of a Rastafarian Orthodox Christian can be offered by you giving us a personal account of a) what it is about your lifestyle and character that constitute a uniquely Rastafarian identity, b) how it is that these are conducive to and/or compatible with your Orthodox Faith, and, c) what aspects of Rastafarian culture you have felt the need to abandon or have found a way to properly redefine and reinterpret in adapting to the Orthodox Faith. How does that sound?

First of all dear brother, I know that you are not taking sides but only trying to gain clarification. I appreciate yor legitimate concerns, which I share. 

Again, I reiterate that I have never advocated racial supremacy or claimed that Christ is Black. However, I have seen icons of Our Lord which depict Him as Black and icons that depict Him as White. I venerate all these icons in the same manner.

If people want to understand Rastafari culture and beliefs, it will take a lot of work and experience with actual Rastafarians themselves. Even then, you will still come away with many different interpretations and a variety of beliefs. Some worship the Emperor, some insist that Christ is Black, some are vegetarians, some use Ganja, some are pacifists, some eat meat and drink beer, some are devout Tewahedo Christians. So, to generalize about Rastafari is problematic to begin with.

I can only speak for myself, for my own beliefs, which are abundantly clear from everything I post on this forum as well as what is contained in my humble book about the Orthodox Faith. It should be clear to anyone who has actually read my words that I am an Orthodox Tewahedo Christian first and foremost. My doctrine, my faith, my beliefs, and my opinions are shaped and formed by the Teachings and Traditions of the Church above and before all else.

As for the race thing... I will never defend any form of racial superiority in any form. However, neither will I condemn a persecuted and oppressed people for viewing Christ through the lens of their own race, culture, and struggle. We Orthodox Christians are not Puritans who reject icons. Should we refuse to venerate icons of Our Lord in our Churches because the icons depict Him in a particular color? God forbid! Will Hiwot or others refuse to venerate an icon of Our Lord if the icon depicts Him as Black?

Again, if anyone thinks the video I posted is blasphemous in any way, then fine. I stated clearly that I don't endorse every aspect of the message, but that I posted it simply to show that there are Rastafarians who are also Orthodox Christians. I probably should have been more cautious in dissecting the message, but I was focusing instead on the beautiful Tewahedo Faith and culture that permeated the video. I only wish others could focus on that beauty as well.

I think your last paragraph that I highlighted in bold above is important and demonstrates the true Christian spirit of humility and charity. In that spirit, I will attempt to address your specific questions. But for a more detailed account, people can read my Testimony of Baptism on my blog by clicking on this link: http://mysteryandmeaning.blogspot.com/2010/07/my-spiritual-journey.html

You asked:
a) What it is about your lifestyle and character that constitute a uniquely Rastafarian identity?

I'm not really sure, since my identity is first and foremost Orthodox Christian. But I guess I would have to say that my view of the historical and spiritual significance of Africa and Ethiopia, my commitment to nonviolence, my diet, my identification of evil ideologies and systems with "Babylon," my love for conscious reggae music, and of course my love for and veneration of the Emperor and his Christian teachings are things that I associate with Rasta identity. But then again, I associate these things with my Christian identity as well; and I see no conflict between the two in these regards.

b) How it is that these are conducive to and/or compatible with your Orthodox Faith?

Well, like I said above, I think they are very compatible with my Orthodox Faith. The scriptures led me to embrace many things about Rastafari (to the point where I could in good conscience identify myself as a Rasta, especially after studying the 12 Tribes and realizing that not all Rastas worship the Emperor), and the Rastafari worldview led me to the redeeming waters of Holy Baptism and entrance into the true Orthodox Christian Faith.

c) What aspects of Rastafarian culture have you felt the need to abandon or have found a way to properly redefine and reinterpret in adapting to the Orthodox Faith?

Well, since I never worshipped Haile Selassie, that was something that I didn't need to abandon since it was an idolatry that I never practiced. Personally, I chose to stop smoking Ganja, but that was more so for health and personal reasons than any real spiritual conviction. Although if I thought about smoking again, I would seek the advice of my Priest and follow his counsel. So basically, the heretical ideas that are associated with some forms of Rastafari are ideas that I never embraced to begin with. I cut my locks when I was Baptized in obedience and submission, and I have tried hard to maintain a spirit of obedience and submission to the Teachings and Traditions of the Church ever since. I have never attempted to syncretize heretical Rastafarian ideas such as emperor worship with the Orthodox Faith. I submit wholly and completely to our Church's Teachings.

Ok, I hope that helps brother. It is good to believe the best about one another and give each other the benefit of the doubt. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, some Rastas may have some heretical beliefs, but I am more disturbed by the numerous heresies that are promoted in the very name of Our Lord by those who call themselves Christians. Rastas are not militantly evangelical like so many of our Protestant friends, thus there is no reason for anyone to persecute and malign them out of prejudicial fears. And like I said before, I personally will worship along side anyone who wishes to enter the Church and worship in Orthodox fashion. If Hiwot chooses to abandon worship because a Rasta is worhsipping next to her, that is her choice. The Church will always be there to welcome her back.  Smiley


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« Reply #102 on: July 23, 2012, 02:11:46 AM »

So the song was not racist eh?

It must be the demons of hiwots imagination that told her to be happy that Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy, where else could she have heard it, enough to fabricate such a racial statement as coming from those Rastafarians? Don’t know, does anyone know where in this thread did any Rastafarian endorse such statement as being an example of Orthodoxy? Show me One Rastafarian who would endorse let alone sing such a racial and heretical teaching as the teachings of the Anchorites /Hermits of Orthodox Ethiopia? Does anybody see any Rastafarian ever endorsing such a heretical lie that gives false witness against the Church and her Monastics to be the Example of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church’s Teaching and Tradition as it is embraced by those Rastafarians who are in Orthodox Communion with Her? Hiwot must be a confused fool who gives false witness against her orthodox brethren by listening to the demons of her imagination.

Oh you mean she was talking about that stellar orthodox Rastafarian man who worships as we do? Well he  never uttered a racist statement at all, what he did was sing the praises to Our Lord while extolling the beauty of Ethiopia and the glories of the Tewahedo Faith. Why can you guys not see the virtue in his orthodox message rather than focusing on a singular point, even that which by the way you guys misinterpret and call unorthodox racial statement when it is not.


Alight then, now since  that which we can hear with our own ears is being denied and the back pedaling already started. If you all bear with my foolishness once more, as you have already been doing, Let me once more dwell on that heretical song and the singer as well as those who worship as he does, and endorse such teachings as examples of Orthodoxy, yet all who claim to be loyal adherents to the Orthodox Faith and Tradition of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.


Was it a single slip of a tongue; was it a single point distorted? Was it orthodox message misunderstood as it is alluded? The answer is an obvious no;  as we can see if it was a mistake it was not corrected, rather it was defended, if it was ignorance it was repeated as wisdom by those that endorsed it , so let us look at the plot of the story in the song.

The singer’s strategy is this: we all know the Impeccable Credibility of the holy ascetics, especially the Anchorites in their fidelity to the Orthodox Faith and Tradition. If there are those who do not know about the austerity of such life, here is what they do and he tells in a distorted way certain ascetical practices known to be practiced by the Anchorites in their rejection of the world and its source of pleasures.
Then after he points out the deep love and reverence of the Ethiopian Orthodox have for these Anchorites/Hermits as being the keepers and defenders of the Orthodox Faith against all others.


To add to this credibility , he is seen in the video dressed in what can pass as an Ethiopian clergy, and joining in the procession of the Feast of Theophany, while he claps like the Ethiopian orthodox faithful  are doing while they sing an orthodox hymn for the Glory of God, he on other hand uses their presence to worship in the Orthodox way in that procession as a source of validation of his heretical song they have no clue is being set up and orchestrated by him and those who later would use this video for similar purposes of accreditation of their heretical and blasphemous views as being in accord with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church Teachings and Traditions.


Now comes the MAIN POINT of the entire exposition on the credibility of the Bahitawi/ Anchorite. It was to say:

==> It is these bahitawis/ anchorites of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church that told him and taught him that Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy, so that is why he is happy! It’s not just him saying that Jesus Christ/ Moses/ King David/ the entire Israelites/ are black; no he tells us he got this teaching from the Anchorites of Ethiopia themselves!


==> It is the bahitawis of EOTC themselves who taught him this way, if you doubt it he will show you walking around their church, running among the Procession, throw in a few Ethiopic words, here and there, call the name of Christ as Ethiopians do, i.e. Eyesus Christos, all these to show us how Orthodox his views are. How what he is advocating is not his but the Church’s views, the main goal being to be so similar as to be indistinguishable to the untrained eyes of the unsuspecting observer.

after all the goal is not to come out and say we believe this way because we are racially motivated, pseudo spiritualists whose political philosophies we want to pass as orthodox Christian Spirituality, that way one will have the accreditation one needs to propagate one’s view with the stamp of approval one can present each time the orthodoxy of one’s view is questioned.


As we have seen in the song and its endorsers, superficial imitation is very important to them as it is a great tool to further their heretical views with a veneer of Orthodoxy, the higher the authority in orthodoxy they can claim or associate as endorser and advocator of their views the better.

Mark 7:9 And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!


The King of Babylon was judged ‘ mane , teqel, Phares !’ Daniel 5: 25-28 when he started using the Things of the LORD GOD’s ( the golden and the silver vessels of the house of God) for his own personal pleasure, when he desecrated them and what they stand for, for his own blasphemous use. Those Rastafarian heretics that attempt to use the men and women of Orthodoxy (the Holy Anchorites who have consecrated their very lives to the LORD GOD) and distort the Orthodox Witness of their holy lives, and attempt to use it to serve a heretical philosophy which attempts to pass as the Body of Christ while it is filled and intoxicated with egotistical, idolatrous lusts of Babylon herself will  face her judgment by the Awesome Bridegroom who will defend His Pure Bride.


To those who knowingly would dare to use the reverend names, and the blood and tears of  the Holy ascetics of Orthodoxy  and give witness falsely in invoking the Faith of the ascetics , the Orthodox Tewahedo Church and her Tradition, in order to advance their  burning lust for earthly , narcissistic, egomaniac  and idolatrous  glory, I pray that they wake up and know that they are walking in the path of Jezebel.



As to the Orthodox Anchorites of Ethiopia, never is it heard of one who has forgotten what the taste of  baked food, warm clothing, the security of a roof over their head, one who has forgotten what it means to be satiated and filled with food and water, one who has not looked at a mirror of any form, and forgotten what he or she looks like in the outside, the holy anchorites of Ethiopia who bless the very air of the entire world with the opening of their mouth with their unceasing prayer. Who guard the entire universe with their living prayer, as they burn and shine with the Fire of the Paraclete Never is it heard that those who have forgotten to care for their hair that it will grow unnoticed and tangled and dreaded, that they would have the inclination to preach about the texture of someone else’s hair let alone to give spiritual discourse over the nappiness of the hair of Our Lord, or the Patriarchs of Israel. Not a single one of them dare to speak in false witness as to who  and of what race the Messiah is, The Orthodox Faith they give witness in their lives is the Faith in the Truth, the Way, and the Life. Their zeal for the Truth is so great that they are ones who guard against the heretical teaching of any sort be it from outside or inside, thus they along with St Paul the Apostle in say “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.’’ Galatians 1:8


And with One heart the Church replies with a living prayer:  Amen!
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« Reply #103 on: July 23, 2012, 02:41:52 AM »

So the song was not racist eh?

It must be the demons of hiwots imagination that told her to be happy that Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy, where else could she have heard it, enough to fabricate such a racial statement as coming from those Rastafarians? Don’t know, does anyone know where in this thread did any Rastafarian endorse such statement as being an example of Orthodoxy? Show me One Rastafarian who would endorse let alone sing such a racial and heretical teaching as the teachings of the Anchorites /Hermits of Orthodox Ethiopia? Does anybody see any Rastafarian ever endorsing such a heretical lie that gives false witness against the Church and her Monastics to be the Example of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church’s Teaching and Tradition as it is embraced by those Rastafarians who are in Orthodox Communion with Her? Hiwot must be a confused fool who gives false witness against her orthodox brethren by listening to the demons of her imagination.

Oh you mean she was talking about that stellar orthodox Rastafarian man who worships as we do? Well he  never uttered a racist statement at all, what he did was sing the praises to Our Lord while extolling the beauty of Ethiopia and the glories of the Tewahedo Faith. Why can you guys not see the virtue in his orthodox message rather than focusing on a singular point, even that which by the way you guys misinterpret and call unorthodox racial statement when it is not.


Alight then, now since  that which we can hear with our own ears is being denied and the back pedaling already started. If you all bear with my foolishness once more, as you have already been doing, Let me once more dwell on that heretical song and the singer as well as those who worship as he does, and endorse such teachings as examples of Orthodoxy, yet all who claim to be loyal adherents to the Orthodox Faith and Tradition of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.


Was it a single slip of a tongue; was it a single point distorted? Was it orthodox message misunderstood as it is alluded? The answer is an obvious no;  as we can see if it was a mistake it was not corrected, rather it was defended, if it was ignorance it was repeated as wisdom by those that endorsed it , so let us look at the plot of the story in the song.

The singer’s strategy is this: we all know the Impeccable Credibility of the holy ascetics, especially the Anchorites in their fidelity to the Orthodox Faith and Tradition. If there are those who do not know about the austerity of such life, here is what they do and he tells in a distorted way certain ascetical practices known to be practiced by the Anchorites in their rejection of the world and its source of pleasures.
Then after he points out the deep love and reverence of the Ethiopian Orthodox have for these Anchorites/Hermits as being the keepers and defenders of the Orthodox Faith against all others.


To add to this credibility , he is seen in the video dressed in what can pass as an Ethiopian clergy, and joining in the procession of the Feast of Theophany, while he claps like the Ethiopian orthodox faithful  are doing while they sing an orthodox hymn for the Glory of God, he on other hand uses their presence to worship in the Orthodox way in that procession as a source of validation of his heretical song they have no clue is being set up and orchestrated by him and those who later would use this video for similar purposes of accreditation of their heretical and blasphemous views as being in accord with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church Teachings and Traditions.


Now comes the MAIN POINT of the entire exposition on the credibility of the Bahitawi/ Anchorite. It was to say:

==> It is these bahitawis/ anchorites of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church that told him and taught him that Jesus Christ is black and his hair is nappy, so that is why he is happy! It’s not just him saying that Jesus Christ/ Moses/ King David/ the entire Israelites/ are black; no he tells us he got this teaching from the Anchorites of Ethiopia themselves!


==> It is the bahitawis of EOTC themselves who taught him this way, if you doubt it he will show you walking around their church, running among the Procession, throw in a few Ethiopic words, here and there, call the name of Christ as Ethiopians do, i.e. Eyesus Christos, all these to show us how Orthodox his views are. How what he is advocating is not his but the Church’s views, the main goal being to be so similar as to be indistinguishable to the untrained eyes of the unsuspecting observer.

after all the goal is not to come out and say we believe this way because we are racially motivated, pseudo spiritualists whose political philosophies we want to pass as orthodox Christian Spirituality, that way one will have the accreditation one needs to propagate one’s view with the stamp of approval one can present each time the orthodoxy of one’s view is questioned.


As we have seen in the song and its endorsers, superficial imitation is very important to them as it is a great tool to further their heretical views with a veneer of Orthodoxy, the higher the authority in orthodoxy they can claim or associate as endorser and advocator of their views the better.

Mark 7:9 And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!


The King of Babylon was judged ‘ mane , teqel, Phares !’ Daniel 5: 25-28 when he started using the Things of the LORD GOD’s ( the golden and the silver vessels of the house of God) for his own personal pleasure, when he desecrated them and what they stand for, for his own blasphemous use. Those Rastafarian heretics that attempt to use the men and women of Orthodoxy (the Holy Anchorites who have consecrated their very lives to the LORD GOD) and distort the Orthodox Witness of their holy lives, and attempt to use it to serve a heretical philosophy which attempts to pass as the Body of Christ while it is filled and intoxicated with egotistical, idolatrous lusts of Babylon herself will  face her judgment by the Awesome Bridegroom who will defend His Pure Bride.


To those who knowingly would dare to use the reverend names, and the blood and tears of  the Holy ascetics of Orthodoxy  and give witness falsely in invoking the Faith of the ascetics , the Orthodox Tewahedo Church and her Tradition, in order to advance their  burning lust for earthly , narcissistic, egomaniac  and idolatrous  glory, I pray that they wake up and know that they are walking in the path of Jezebel.



As to the Orthodox Anchorites of Ethiopia, never is it heard of one who has forgotten what the taste of  baked food, warm clothing, the security of a roof over their head, one who has forgotten what it means to be satiated and filled with food and water, one who has not looked at a mirror of any form, and forgotten what he or she looks like in the outside, the holy anchorites of Ethiopia who bless the very air of the entire world with the opening of their mouth with their unceasing prayer. Who guard the entire universe with their living prayer, as they burn and shine with the Fire of the Paraclete Never is it heard that those who have forgotten to care for their hair that it will grow unnoticed and tangled and dreaded, that they would have the inclination to preach about the texture of someone else’s hair let alone to give spiritual discourse over the nappiness of the hair of Our Lord, or the Patriarchs of Israel. Not a single one of them dare to speak in false witness as to who  and of what race the Messiah is, The Orthodox Faith they give witness in their lives is the Faith in the Truth, the Way, and the Life. Their zeal for the Truth is so great that they are ones who guard against the heretical teaching of any sort be it from outside or inside, thus they along with St Paul the Apostle in say “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.’’ Galatians 1:8


And with One heart the Church replies with a living prayer:  Amen!



Dear sister,

It really would help if you read my posts and stopped fighting against arguments that I have never made.

Now, some humble advice from an unworthy sinner (and yes, a "falsely pious" unworthy sinner at that):  

+Worship Eyesus Kristos.

+Worship the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, One God, -amen-.

+Worship according the Teachings and Traditions of our beloved Tewahedo Church.

+Prostrate before the Ark of the Covenant, and open your mouth and heart to receive the Holy Qurbana.

+When you worship, do not worry about who is next to you, who is behind you, or who is beside you. Know that Christ is in our midst, He is and always shall be! Truly He is risen! Focus on these glorious truths and you will not be disappointed.

+Do not stand before the altar and beat your breast like the Pharisee, saying "Thank God that I am not like those sinful Rastafarians!" Instead, bow before Christ in humility and plead for His mercy. And when you plead for His mercy, please plead His mercy for me as well.


Peace and Love my sister. Smiley



Selam
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« Reply #104 on: July 23, 2012, 02:43:10 AM »

oh by the way, can somebody explain to me, the difference between not endorsing someone as orthodox yet still saying : here is an  example of a genuine rastafarian orthodox man, whose views are not racist egotistical hateful and hetrodox, but orthodox manifestation of his orthodox faith, come let us worship as he does.

Truth....What is Truth? seems to be the question in here.

amazing!

I know one defintion of Right Worship and that is ORTHODOXY, The RIGHT GLORY, THE TRUTH, THE WAY AND THE LIFE!

ALL others ARE LIES! emanating from the FATHER OF LIES! SATAN himself who likes to masquerade as angel of light.

gebre, do not worry about me, just stop the lies  and distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions, thank you. you can worship as that rastafarian man you endorsed does, noone will deny you, but that worship is anathema to the RIGHT WORSHIP (ORTHODOXY) so dont pretend it is.
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« Reply #105 on: July 23, 2012, 02:57:39 AM »

Gebre: I know I'm several posts behind on this issue, but just so we're clear, I have not accused you here of any kind of racial supremacy. That would be ridiculous. I don't believe you believe in that. Rather, my point was not to say what you believe or don't believe, but rather to say that anyone (of any color/background/politics/etc.) who says, as the singer said, "I am happy because Jesus is a particular color", or (as you claim Mexicans say about the Virgin of Guadalupe) "I love the Theotokos because this vision of her shows her with my features", or anything like that is wrong. Those are just plain wrong reasons for praising Christ, or the Theotokos, or any of the saints. It doesn't really matter the background of the person doing it. The European Renaissance painters who depicted Christ as a white guy were doing essentially the same thing, and even though it is understandable why they would paint Him that way (again, inculturation), if people, seeing those paintings, come away saying "Wow! Jesus is a white guy! That makes me happy!" then that's wrong. This is a pretty big reason why we are supposed to be careful with exactly how we represent Christ or the saints in icons, right? I thought so, anyway, even though I'm no specialist in this area.

So yes, with that specific reasoning in mind, I would refuse to venerate an icon of Christ because it depicts Him as black...but I have the 15th century Ethiopian icon "The One who listens" set as the desktop background on my computer. When I look at it, I don't say "There is an African Christ! Praise God! He's so black! This makes me happy!" I look at it and I see Jesus Christ, the savior of the world, and His mother, who brought forth the True Light, and I praise our God for His great mercy in coming to us, unworthy as we are. The fact that Jesus Christ and St. Mary (and the other figures in the icon) are depicted as black is really not on my mind. It makes sense that they are, and I think the icon is very beautiful, but again, I will not venerate any icon because it depicts Christ or anyone in a particular hue. That's ridiculous. And, indeed, I must say that there are some things that are not appropriate. I would not venerate an icon of St. Moses the Ethiopian that depicts him as a young Chinese woman, you know? That doesn't mean that I have problems with the Chinese or young women or anything like that, but I do think that traditional iconographic principles should trump identity politics and/or race baiting.
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« Reply #106 on: July 23, 2012, 03:31:21 AM »


gebre, do not worry about me, just stop the lies  and distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions, thank you. you can worship as that rastafarian man you endorsed does, noone will deny you, but that worship is anathema to the RIGHT WORSHIP (ORTHODOXY) so dont pretend it is.


May God forgive me if I have promoted any lies or distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions! Be careful with your accusations my sister.


Selam
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« Reply #107 on: July 23, 2012, 03:36:36 AM »

Gebre: I know I'm several posts behind on this issue, but just so we're clear, I have not accused you here of any kind of racial supremacy. That would be ridiculous. I don't believe you believe in that. Rather, my point was not to say what you believe or don't believe, but rather to say that anyone (of any color/background/politics/etc.) who says, as the singer said, "I am happy because Jesus is a particular color", or (as you claim Mexicans say about the Virgin of Guadalupe) "I love the Theotokos because this vision of her shows her with my features", or anything like that is wrong. Those are just plain wrong reasons for praising Christ, or the Theotokos, or any of the saints. It doesn't really matter the background of the person doing it. The European Renaissance painters who depicted Christ as a white guy were doing essentially the same thing, and even though it is understandable why they would paint Him that way (again, inculturation), if people, seeing those paintings, come away saying "Wow! Jesus is a white guy! That makes me happy!" then that's wrong. This is a pretty big reason why we are supposed to be careful with exactly how we represent Christ or the saints in icons, right? I thought so, anyway, even though I'm no specialist in this area.

So yes, with that specific reasoning in mind, I would refuse to venerate an icon of Christ because it depicts Him as black...but I have the 15th century Ethiopian icon "The One who listens" set as the desktop background on my computer. When I look at it, I don't say "There is an African Christ! Praise God! He's so black! This makes me happy!" I look at it and I see Jesus Christ, the savior of the world, and His mother, who brought forth the True Light, and I praise our God for His great mercy in coming to us, unworthy as we are. The fact that Jesus Christ and St. Mary (and the other figures in the icon) are depicted as black is really not on my mind. It makes sense that they are, and I think the icon is very beautiful, but again, I will not venerate any icon because it depicts Christ or anyone in a particular hue. That's ridiculous. And, indeed, I must say that there are some things that are not appropriate. I would not venerate an icon of St. Moses the Ethiopian that depicts him as a young Chinese woman, you know? That doesn't mean that I have problems with the Chinese or young women or anything like that, but I do think that traditional iconographic principles should trump identity politics and/or race baiting.

I think we are on the same page my friend. If someone worships an image of Christ only because of the color depicted, then that is idolatry. But if someone worships Christ because He is Christ, but also rejoices that Christ appears to them in a form of their own cultural or racial ethnicity, then I see nothing wrong with that. That was my point about the Virgen de Guadalupe. She is venerated simply because she is St. Mary, but if the Mexican people also find comfort and joy in her manifestation as a Mestizo, then good for them. So, I think we are in agreement?


Selam
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« Reply #108 on: July 23, 2012, 03:43:39 AM »


gebre, do not worry about me, just stop the lies  and distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions, thank you. you can worship as that rastafarian man you endorsed does, noone will deny you, but that worship is anathema to the RIGHT WORSHIP (ORTHODOXY) so dont pretend it is.


May God forgive me if I have promoted any lies or distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions! Be careful with your accusations my sister.


Selam

The lies and distortions are quite clear gebre, I have as you say been very careful as to filtering the heterodoxy advocated from the Orthodoxy the Orthodox Church Lives. so your caution was duly noted. If your prayer for forgiveness is for real then rejoice because For those who repent of their errors with sincerity God is forgiving and Merciful, May He help you and me bear the fruits of our repentance in the Holy Spirit, Who alone sanctifies and strengthens. amen.
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« Reply #109 on: July 23, 2012, 03:49:33 AM »


gebre, do not worry about me, just stop the lies  and distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions, thank you. you can worship as that rastafarian man you endorsed does, noone will deny you, but that worship is anathema to the RIGHT WORSHIP (ORTHODOXY) so dont pretend it is.


May God forgive me if I have promoted any lies or distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions! Be careful with your accusations my sister.


Selam

The lies and distortions are quite clear gebre, I have as you say been very careful as to filtering the heterodoxy advocated from the Orthodoxy the Orthodox Church Lives. so your caution was duly noted. If your prayer for forgiveness is for real then rejoice because For those who repent of their errors with sincerity God is forgiving and Merciful, May He help you and me bear the fruits of our repentance in the Holy Spirit, Who alone sanctifies and strengthens. amen.


Please list the lies and distortions about our Faith that I have made. Otherwise please do not accuse me falsely.  (BTW, I have PM'd you.)  Peace sister.



Selam
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« Reply #110 on: July 23, 2012, 03:56:02 AM »

Frankly, Gebre, it is hard to tell if we are in agreement in light of your defense of the supposed Orthodoxy of the song you posted earlier. Maybe we mostly are, but I don't want to leave any wrong ideas up here as to what I mean. My point is that it is wrong to rejoice in the Savior's color, as the song seems to do over and over. "I am happy because Israel is black", and so on. That certain depictions of Christ or the saints vary across cultural lines is unavoidable and not wrong in itself (cf. the Ethiopian icon I brought up), but saying "I rejoice because of a Christ of this color!" is wrong in itself. Again, it is not necessarily wrong to depict Christ or a saint in a certain way (though it can be, cf. St. Moses the Ethiopian as an Asian woman), but it is wrong rejoice over such a depiction. Jesus Christ conquered death, so if you focus on his hair...well, that's stupid, isn't it? That has nothing to do with anything. Christ didn't cast out demons by His hair, and we are not saved by having certain (absolutely irrelevant, potentially highly questionable) ideas about His skin color. That doesn't matter. The picture you posted earlier said it all. It doesn't matter what race He was -- what matters is that He is the Savior of the whole world, the Only Begotten Son of God, the True Light, the Alpha and the Omega. As God, He transcends racial and cultural divisions, and as Christians, His followers, we should be striving to do so, too. Saying "I am happy because Christ is a certain color" really doesn't help that at all. It is at best a step backwards in our attempt to follow Him, and at worst it shows that we are not really following Him at all.
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« Reply #111 on: July 23, 2012, 04:32:31 AM »


gebre, do not worry about me, just stop the lies  and distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions, thank you. you can worship as that rastafarian man you endorsed does, noone will deny you, but that worship is anathema to the RIGHT WORSHIP (ORTHODOXY) so dont pretend it is.


May God forgive me if I have promoted any lies or distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions! Be careful with your accusations my sister.


Selam

The lies and distortions are quite clear gebre, I have as you say been very careful as to filtering the heterodoxy advocated from the Orthodoxy the Orthodox Church Lives. so your caution was duly noted. If your prayer for forgiveness is for real then rejoice because For those who repent of their errors with sincerity God is forgiving and Merciful, May He help you and me bear the fruits of our repentance in the Holy Spirit, Who alone sanctifies and strengthens. amen.


Please list the lies and distortions about our Faith that I have made. Otherwise please do not accuse me falsely.  (BTW, I have PM'd you.)  Peace sister.



Selam




Since you asked I will list it then just limiting on this thread.

When bob Marley sung his mockery of the Christian hope of dying and going to heaven in Jesus Name and advised the people to abandon that hope which he mocked and instead counseled them to work towards earthy life alone because life is right here and now , not the hereafter. You called him a modern day psalmist equal in stature with the holy prophet king David, to make your point appear orthodox; you dare to use the Holy Icon of Ethiopian Orthodox Church, combined with your Jah rastafari! Chant, let me ask you this:

If bob Marley is a modern day psalmist will those who sing his songs achieve theosis since singing his heretical and blasphemous song you count as a prayer? That is what the psalms of David are, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and for generations prayed by the Orthodox Faithful and with a unative prayer have been helpful in transforming many in the Spirit. Would listening to your modern day psalmist bob Marley do the same? Will it be possible to pray his song in the church or privately in orthodox spirituality? Would the Orthodox Church pray JAH Rastafari from her pulpit, her Sunday schools from her private devotions?  NEVER! yet you did not hesitate, or pause to consider your reckless actions when you not only indorsed that blasphemous song but the singer as a modern day psalmist , using his baptism which  came way after his heretical song was published with their heretical intentions. You use your jah Rastafari prayer and encourage many to subsist in their heretical attachment and blasphemy, what the church will never use in her private devotion or public service, you advocate with her iconography and worse insistence that it is in accord with her orthodox faith that you do so.


Then came your bringing this Rastafarian man as example of Rastafarian orthodoxy that is in accord with Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo church. You not only denied that what he said was unorthodox but you outright defended his racist and hateful heresy as none racist orthodox manifestation of orthodox Faith. Not only that you insinuated that whatever error it might be there it’s because he does not know and you do not agree with it, then you turn around and say oh there is nothing in there that was racist or unorthodox. Which is it?


Then it gets worse, the Rastafarian you chose to bring by being in agreement with slanders the great spiritual teachers of the Orthodox Church, he gives false witness against them and says they teach this hateful heresy as he does. Yet you saw no need to stand against that kind of blasphemy against Christ, or lie against those Orthodox hermits. No you denied what we all can hear with our ears, you continue to insist that you in all this are in the right, and been giving the right witness of the Ethiopian orthodox Tewahedo church and her Tradition.


You not only support how he worships = heterodoxy but invite all to join in such worship. There is only One Right Worship and that is Orthodoxy!
The reason I am repeating all this as If the entire thread has not been about the Faith is because  as you have demonstrated even after you posted this man’s song as an example o orthodox Rastafarian you yourself were the one to deny that you agree with him, and accuse others of misinterpreting you. When that did not fly , you started to defend him as being orthodox and those who refuse to worship as he do are simply being hateful and confused by the demons of their imagination.

I have said all that needs to be said to you, I respect your right to believe any number of things you like. However you or anyone you bring and endorse cannot scandalize, lie about or distort, the Orthodox Church and her Traditions by claiming egomaniac narcissistic racial sophistries and blasphemous heresies such as the above I mentioned are being taught by her or anyone of those lied about Anchorites.

I say enough of this attempt at superficial similarity to conceal the Rastafarian heresy of not only emperor worship but also racial superiority, using scripture to send a distorted message of Salvation of the Black Israel by the African Jesus. If you know what the Orthodox Church teaches, then you still continue to allow those who are continuing in their error without so much as a word of warning instead you imitate them in their errors and sing jah rastafari with them , be happy Jesus  Christ is Black and his hair is nappy then that’s up to you. But neither the Apostles of the Lord nor any of the Orthodox Christian Fathers have given us such Tradition. So Anathema!
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« Reply #112 on: July 23, 2012, 04:41:37 AM »

Frankly, Gebre, it is hard to tell if we are in agreement in light of your defense of the supposed Orthodoxy of the song you posted earlier. Maybe we mostly are, but I don't want to leave any wrong ideas up here as to what I mean. My point is that it is wrong to rejoice in the Savior's color, as the song seems to do over and over. "I am happy because Israel is black", and so on. That certain depictions of Christ or the saints vary across cultural lines is unavoidable and not wrong in itself (cf. the Ethiopian icon I brought up), but saying "I rejoice because of a Christ of this color!" is wrong in itself. Again, it is not necessarily wrong to depict Christ or a saint in a certain way (though it can be, cf. St. Moses the Ethiopian as an Asian woman), but it is wrong rejoice over such a depiction. Jesus Christ conquered death, so if you focus on his hair...well, that's stupid, isn't it? That has nothing to do with anything. Christ didn't cast out demons by His hair, and we are not saved by having certain (absolutely irrelevant, potentially highly questionable) ideas about His skin color. That doesn't matter. The picture you posted earlier said it all. It doesn't matter what race He was -- what matters is that He is the Savior of the whole world, the Only Begotten Son of God, the True Light, the Alpha and the Omega. As God, He transcends racial and cultural divisions, and as Christians, His followers, we should be striving to do so, too. Saying "I am happy because Christ is a certain color" really doesn't help that at all. It is at best a step backwards in our attempt to follow Him, and at worst it shows that we are not really following Him at all.


Dear friend, I have repeatedly stated that I did not post the video as an example of Orthodox doctrine, but simply to demonstrate that some Rastafarians are Orthodox Christians. Who of us is perfect in doctrine or in practice? I know that I am not. Pray for me.

Here is my opinion, and feel free to disagree: It is wrong to worship Christ because of any racial or ethnic depiction, but it is not wrong to rejoice and find comfort in the fact that Our Lord reveals Himself in the ethnicity or race of the person or people to whom He is being revealed.

An example: I worship Christ because He is God and because He is the only hope I have of salvation. However, I do not ignore the fact that He was nonviolent (i.e. He refused to kill), that He preached forgiveness, that He condemned the Pharisees, that He gave hope to sinners, that He performed miracles, that He was a Jew, that He was a man, that He was tempted, that He felt every human emotion known to man, etc. I take great comfort in these things, and if I were talented enough to write songs expressing the joy and happiness that these things give me, then I would surely do so.

Does the fact that Our Lord was a Jew mean that He hated Gentiles? Of course not! Does the fact that He was nonviolent mean that He hated soldiers? Of course not! So if someone who has been oppressed by a false religion that has imposed the image of a "white Jesus" upon them now finds solace and joy in the fact that they have finally seen Our Lord depicted as Black, then why should we be upset by it? We should be more disturbed by the inhumanity, evils, and injustices that were done to Black people (and "brown" and "red" people) by Europeans who oppressed, tortured, and enslaved in the precious name of Our Lord.

Rather than condemning Rastafarians, let us heed the words of St. Paul the Apostle:
"I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." [I Corinthians 9:22]




Selam
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« Reply #113 on: July 23, 2012, 04:46:09 AM »

Who is perfect in doctrine? The Orthodox Church is PERFECT in her DOCTRINE!

The ORTHODOX are PERFECT in their DOCTRINE ! not a speck of heresy in the Orthodox Faith!


those who attempt to argue as if the orthodox Faith's validity is dependent upon their personal holiness or lack there of are simply too arrogant to see the Supreme Truth is always true and above who they are or they are not personally. for this reason the Faith of the person has to be orthodox in order to be in communion with the Orthodox Church, however in personal sin the Orthodox Church is open to all Faithful who are sick and suffering and works towards their sacramental healing. her sacraments however are for those who are as Orthodox as Her , flawless in their Faith.
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« Reply #114 on: July 23, 2012, 04:52:09 AM »


gebre, do not worry about me, just stop the lies  and distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions, thank you. you can worship as that rastafarian man you endorsed does, noone will deny you, but that worship is anathema to the RIGHT WORSHIP (ORTHODOXY) so dont pretend it is.


May God forgive me if I have promoted any lies or distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions! Be careful with your accusations my sister.


Selam

The lies and distortions are quite clear gebre, I have as you say been very careful as to filtering the heterodoxy advocated from the Orthodoxy the Orthodox Church Lives. so your caution was duly noted. If your prayer for forgiveness is for real then rejoice because For those who repent of their errors with sincerity God is forgiving and Merciful, May He help you and me bear the fruits of our repentance in the Holy Spirit, Who alone sanctifies and strengthens. amen.


Please list the lies and distortions about our Faith that I have made. Otherwise please do not accuse me falsely.  (BTW, I have PM'd you.)  Peace sister.



Selam




Since you asked I will list it then just limiting on this thread.

When bob Marley sung his mockery of the Christian hope of dying and going to heaven in Jesus Name and advised the people to abandon that hope which he mocked and instead counseled them to work towards earthy life alone because life is right here and now , not the hereafter. You called him a modern day psalmist equal in stature with the holy prophet king David, to make your point appear orthodox; you dare to use the Holy Icon of Ethiopian Orthodox Church, combined with your Jah rastafari! Chant, let me ask you this:

If bob Marley is a modern day psalmist will those who sing his songs achieve theosis since singing his heretical and blasphemous song you count as a prayer? That is what the psalms of David are, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and for generations prayed by the Orthodox Faithful and with a unative prayer have been helpful in transforming many in the Spirit. Would listening to your modern day psalmist bob Marley do the same? Will it be possible to pray his song in the church or privately in orthodox spirituality? Would the Orthodox Church pray JAH Rastafari from her pulpit, her Sunday schools from her private devotions?  NEVER! yet you did not hesitate, or pause to consider your reckless actions when you not only indorsed that blasphemous song but the singer as a modern day psalmist , using his baptism which  came way after his heretical song was published with their heretical intentions. You use your jah Rastafari prayer and encourage many to subsist in their heretical attachment and blasphemy, what the church will never use in her private devotion or public service, you advocate with her iconography and worse insistence that it is in accord with her orthodox faith that you do so.


Then came your bringing this Rastafarian man as example of Rastafarian orthodoxy that is in accord with Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo church. You not only denied that what he said was unorthodox but you outright defended his racist and hateful heresy as none racist orthodox manifestation of orthodox Faith. Not only that you insinuated that whatever error it might be there it’s because he does not know and you do not agree with it, then you turn around and say oh there is nothing in there that was racist or unorthodox. Which is it?


Then it gets worse, the Rastafarian you chose to bring by being in agreement with slanders the great spiritual teachers of the Orthodox Church, he gives false witness against them and says they teach this hateful heresy as he does. Yet you saw no need to stand against that kind of blasphemy against Christ, or lie against those Orthodox hermits. No you denied what we all can hear with our ears, you continue to insist that you in all this are in the right, and been giving the right witness of the Ethiopian orthodox Tewahedo church and her Tradition.


You not only support how he worships = heterodoxy but invite all to join in such worship. There is only One Right Worship and that is Orthodoxy!
The reason I am repeating all this as If the entire thread has not been about the Faith is because  as you have demonstrated even after you posted this man’s song as an example o orthodox Rastafarian you yourself were the one to deny that you agree with him, and accuse others of misinterpreting you. When that did not fly , you started to defend him as being orthodox and those who refuse to worship as he do are simply being hateful and confused by the demons of their imagination.

I have said all that needs to be said to you, I respect your right to believe any number of things you like. However you or anyone you bring and endorse cannot scandalize, lie about or distort, the Orthodox Church and her Traditions by claiming egomaniac narcissistic racial sophistries and blasphemous heresies such as the above I mentioned are being taught by her or anyone of those lied about Anchorites.

I say enough of this attempt at superficial similarity to conceal the Rastafarian heresy of not only emperor worship but also racial superiority, using scripture to send a distorted message of Salvation of the Black Israel by the African Jesus. If you know what the Orthodox Church teaches, then you still continue to allow those who are continuing in their error without so much as a word of warning instead you imitate them in their errors and sing jah rastafari with them , be happy Jesus  Christ is Black and his hair is nappy then that’s up to you. But neither the Apostles of the Lord nor any of the Orthodox Christian Fathers have given us such Tradition. So Anathema!


I repeat:
May God forgive me if I have promoted any lies or distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions! Be careful with your accusations my sister.

Where have I said that Bob Marley (Berhane Selassie) was a Saint? Where did I say the picture I posted was an icon of the Church worthy of veneration? It was a picture dear sister, that is all. Yes, I am inspired by the Psalms and the life of King David, and I am also inspired by the life and songs of Bob Marley (Berhane Selassie). And yes, I see parrallels in their lives. But that does not mean that I am extolling Bob Marley as a Saint. Do you only listen to Mezmur? Are you not inspired by music, movies, or people in life that are not Orthodox Christians but nevertheless have something of value to offer? If I had posted the picture and declared that Bob Marley should be venerated along with King David, then you would have a right to complain. But I posted the picture simply to encourage us all to sing praises to JAH (God) along with King David and our Tewahedo brother Bob Marley (Berhane Selassie). Now, wouldn't it be better to praise God together rather than arguing about such foolishness?



Selam
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« Reply #115 on: July 23, 2012, 04:53:08 AM »

Who is perfect in doctrine? The Orthodox Church is PERFECT in her DOCTRINE!

The ORTHODOX are PERFECT in their DOCTRINE ! not a speck of heresy in the Orthodox Faith!


Amen! Why are you preaching to the choir?



Selam
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« Reply #116 on: July 23, 2012, 05:09:47 AM »

Who is perfect in doctrine? The Orthodox Church is PERFECT in her DOCTRINE!

The ORTHODOX are PERFECT in their DOCTRINE ! not a speck of heresy in the Orthodox Faith!


Amen! Why are you preaching to the choir?



Selam




Am I preaching to the choir , didn't you just ask in a what appears to be a pious format ,if it had only said who is perfect in their deeds... you however said   :


Quote
Who of us is perfect in doctrine or in practice? I know that I am not. Pray for me.

so I answered you, do not attempt to down play the importance of the adhering to the Orthodox Faith by saying who among us is perfect in doctrine. If you are not in communion with the Orthodox Church in Faith then you are not Orthodox period. so ifs and buts about it.

these days people believe in everything and thus believe in nothing. that is not the Orthodox worship that is why the Orthodox Pray the Creed personally and declair it as one Family in the Divine Liturgy.
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« Reply #117 on: July 23, 2012, 05:19:24 AM »

Who is perfect in doctrine? The Orthodox Church is PERFECT in her DOCTRINE!

The ORTHODOX are PERFECT in their DOCTRINE ! not a speck of heresy in the Orthodox Faith!


Amen! Why are you preaching to the choir?



Selam




Am I preaching to the choir , didn't you just ask in a what appears to be a pious format ,if it had only said who is perfect in their deeds... you however said   :


Quote
Who of us is perfect in doctrine or in practice? I know that I am not. Pray for me.

so I answered you, do not attempt to down play the importance of the adhering to the Orthodox Faith by saying who among us is perfect in doctrine. If you are not in communion with the Orthodox Church in Faith then you are not Orthodox period. so ifs and buts about it.



I am in communion with the Orthodox Church my sister. If you think I shouldn't be, then I will be glad to give you the number of my Priest and you can tell him what a sinner I am. (But know that I have already told him first.  Wink)


Selam
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« Reply #118 on: July 23, 2012, 05:34:54 AM »


gebre, do not worry about me, just stop the lies  and distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions, thank you. you can worship as that rastafarian man you endorsed does, noone will deny you, but that worship is anathema to the RIGHT WORSHIP (ORTHODOXY) so dont pretend it is.


May God forgive me if I have promoted any lies or distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions! Be careful with your accusations my sister.


Selam

The lies and distortions are quite clear gebre, I have as you say been very careful as to filtering the heterodoxy advocated from the Orthodoxy the Orthodox Church Lives. so your caution was duly noted. If your prayer for forgiveness is for real then rejoice because For those who repent of their errors with sincerity God is forgiving and Merciful, May He help you and me bear the fruits of our repentance in the Holy Spirit, Who alone sanctifies and strengthens. amen.


Please list the lies and distortions about our Faith that I have made. Otherwise please do not accuse me falsely.  (BTW, I have PM'd you.)  Peace sister.



Selam




Since you asked I will list it then just limiting on this thread.

When bob Marley sung his mockery of the Christian hope of dying and going to heaven in Jesus Name and advised the people to abandon that hope which he mocked and instead counseled them to work towards earthy life alone because life is right here and now , not the hereafter. You called him a modern day psalmist equal in stature with the holy prophet king David, to make your point appear orthodox; you dare to use the Holy Icon of Ethiopian Orthodox Church, combined with your Jah rastafari! Chant, let me ask you this:

If bob Marley is a modern day psalmist will those who sing his songs achieve theosis since singing his heretical and blasphemous song you count as a prayer? That is what the psalms of David are, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and for generations prayed by the Orthodox Faithful and with a unative prayer have been helpful in transforming many in the Spirit. Would listening to your modern day psalmist bob Marley do the same? Will it be possible to pray his song in the church or privately in orthodox spirituality? Would the Orthodox Church pray JAH Rastafari from her pulpit, her Sunday schools from her private devotions?  NEVER! yet you did not hesitate, or pause to consider your reckless actions when you not only indorsed that blasphemous song but the singer as a modern day psalmist , using his baptism which  came way after his heretical song was published with their heretical intentions. You use your jah Rastafari prayer and encourage many to subsist in their heretical attachment and blasphemy, what the church will never use in her private devotion or public service, you advocate with her iconography and worse insistence that it is in accord with her orthodox faith that you do so.


Then came your bringing this Rastafarian man as example of Rastafarian orthodoxy that is in accord with Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo church. You not only denied that what he said was unorthodox but you outright defended his racist and hateful heresy as none racist orthodox manifestation of orthodox Faith. Not only that you insinuated that whatever error it might be there it’s because he does not know and you do not agree with it, then you turn around and say oh there is nothing in there that was racist or unorthodox. Which is it?


Then it gets worse, the Rastafarian you chose to bring by being in agreement with slanders the great spiritual teachers of the Orthodox Church, he gives false witness against them and says they teach this hateful heresy as he does. Yet you saw no need to stand against that kind of blasphemy against Christ, or lie against those Orthodox hermits. No you denied what we all can hear with our ears, you continue to insist that you in all this are in the right, and been giving the right witness of the Ethiopian orthodox Tewahedo church and her Tradition.


You not only support how he worships = heterodoxy but invite all to join in such worship. There is only One Right Worship and that is Orthodoxy!
The reason I am repeating all this as If the entire thread has not been about the Faith is because  as you have demonstrated even after you posted this man’s song as an example o orthodox Rastafarian you yourself were the one to deny that you agree with him, and accuse others of misinterpreting you. When that did not fly , you started to defend him as being orthodox and those who refuse to worship as he do are simply being hateful and confused by the demons of their imagination.

I have said all that needs to be said to you, I respect your right to believe any number of things you like. However you or anyone you bring and endorse cannot scandalize, lie about or distort, the Orthodox Church and her Traditions by claiming egomaniac narcissistic racial sophistries and blasphemous heresies such as the above I mentioned are being taught by her or anyone of those lied about Anchorites.

I say enough of this attempt at superficial similarity to conceal the Rastafarian heresy of not only emperor worship but also racial superiority, using scripture to send a distorted message of Salvation of the Black Israel by the African Jesus. If you know what the Orthodox Church teaches, then you still continue to allow those who are continuing in their error without so much as a word of warning instead you imitate them in their errors and sing jah rastafari with them , be happy Jesus  Christ is Black and his hair is nappy then that’s up to you. But neither the Apostles of the Lord nor any of the Orthodox Christian Fathers have given us such Tradition. So Anathema!


I repeat:
May God forgive me if I have promoted any lies or distortions about the Orthodox Church and her Traditions! Be careful with your accusations my sister.

Where have I said that Bob Marley (Berhane Selassie) was a Saint? Where did I say the picture I posted was an icon of the Church worthy of veneration? It was a picture dear sister, that is all. Yes, I am inspired by the Psalms and the life of King David, and I am also inspired by the life and songs of Bob Marley (Berhane Selassie). And yes, I see parrallels in their lives. But that does not mean that I am extolling Bob Marley as a Saint. Do you only listen to Mezmur? Are you not inspired by music, movies, or people in life that are not Orthodox Christians but nevertheless have something of value to offer? If I had posted the picture and declared that Bob Marley should be venerated along with King David, then you would have a right to complain. But I posted the picture simply to encourage us all to sing praises to JAH (God) along with King David and our Tewahedo brother Bob Marley (Berhane Selassie). Now, wouldn't it be better to praise God together rather than arguing about such foolishness?



Selam

the Icon you posted it with , wasn't it of Ethiopian orthodox Icon of king Davids praising God, and then you put bob marley's  picture next to him in the same poster to impart one message,as you called him a modern day psalmist, now pictures speak thousand words, how much of equality would you have been able to conjure up other than what you have already done?I find Gandhi's life as a person and a politician very inspiring.. how ever  if I were to post the picture of Gandhi and the icon of  st Paul together and called Gandhi modern day apostle of Christ, would that be telling the truth or distorting it? would that alter that Gandhi was never a Christ believer no matter how much he admired him. where as Bob Marly while he was persecuting the message of Christianity and mocking it, to those who would inquire about the nature of the song and the intent of the singer at that time , you chose to not tell the truth. instead you went further and called him a modern day psalmist like David the Prophet of the Lord equal to the false prophesies and mockery of the Christian God and his message of Eternal Life preached by Bob Marley at that time?

when you prayed jah rastafari, which prayer were you using from the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church? does the church pray it privately or in communal prayer? was Bob Marley worshiping God when he was singing that song or mocking him?  so how is it that he can be a modern day psalmist that if one were to pray his songs one would have communion with the Spirit.

The Psalmist David = a saint
the Modern day psalmist , can only be a saint whose works are also inspired by the Spirit, who sanctifies and Strengthens. what you said for all intents and purposes is equating those two, and elevating the message of the singer into that of the Inspired Hymn of the Church.
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« Reply #119 on: July 23, 2012, 05:41:08 AM »

Who is perfect in doctrine? The Orthodox Church is PERFECT in her DOCTRINE!

The ORTHODOX are PERFECT in their DOCTRINE ! not a speck of heresy in the Orthodox Faith!


Amen! Why are you preaching to the choir?



Selam




Am I preaching to the choir , didn't you just ask in a what appears to be a pious format ,if it had only said who is perfect in their deeds... you however said   :


Quote
Who of us is perfect in doctrine or in practice? I know that I am not. Pray for me.

so I answered you, do not attempt to down play the importance of the adhering to the Orthodox Faith by saying who among us is perfect in doctrine. If you are not in communion with the Orthodox Church in Faith then you are not Orthodox period. so ifs and buts about it.



I am in communion with the Orthodox Church my sister. If you think I shouldn't be, then I will be glad to give you the number of my Priest and you can tell him what a sinner I am. (But know that I have already told him first.  Wink)


Selam


 laugh laugh laugh

how typical!

for the record  let me remind you once again.....you .....asked who among us is perfect of Doctrine, and you yourself replied that you know you are not, so..... in the usual contradictory persona I feel like I am talking to two people.... who was the gebre that said the first , and who is the second one who is complaining about not saying the first....  Undecided

ah that is the question is it not?

 will the real gebre please stand up.....

any way good night and fare ye well.
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« Reply #120 on: July 23, 2012, 05:49:33 AM »

My words have failed. So if anyone wants to know what I believe, they can consult the Teachings and Traditions of my beloved Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church.

Nothing more to say.


(Hiwot, the last time I checked, Gandhi was not baptized into the Orthodox Church. Bob Marley was. I love Gandhi deeply, but Berhane Selassie is my Orthodox brother. The question is: is Berhane Selassie your brother?)



Selam
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« Reply #121 on: July 23, 2012, 08:28:19 AM »

I think that many of GMK's comments are being stretched to logical conclusions he never intended. I can understand Hiwot's sensitivity to matters relating to Rastafarians embracing Orthodoxy--particularly if there is in fact a trend of many doing so without abandoning their former heresies--but I do not think it's fair to accuse or insinuate GMK of heresy. I invited him to give us a frank personal account of what it is about his lifestyle and beliefs that he thinks serve to characterise him as a Rastafarian. I cannot see anything harmful about his brief account in response.

The concerns raised in relation to the video he linked us to are legitimate, I think, particularly given the apparent prominence of race issues in Rastafarian spirituality, but it seems to me that he perhaps posted that link without paying any real attention to the implications of the racial sentiments expressed in that video. I do not agree with his watered down interpretation of those sentiments, but it is at least far from the heretical conceptions of such traditionally held by Rastafarians.
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« Reply #122 on: July 23, 2012, 09:08:24 AM »

I think that many of GMK's comments are being stretched to logical conclusions he never intended. I can understand Hiwot's sensitivity to matters relating to Rastafarians embracing Orthodoxy--particularly if there is in fact a trend of many doing so without abandoning their former heresies--but I do not think it's fair to accuse or insinuate GMK of heresy. I invited him to give us a frank personal account of what it is about his lifestyle and beliefs that he thinks serve to characterise him as a Rastafarian. I cannot see anything harmful about his brief account in response.

The concerns raised in relation to the video he linked us to are legitimate, I think, particularly given the apparent prominence of race issues in Rastafarian spirituality, but it seems to me that he perhaps posted that link without paying any real attention to the implications of the racial sentiments expressed in that video. I do not agree with his watered down interpretation of those sentiments, but it is at least far from the heretical conceptions of such traditionally held by Rastafarians.


I appreciate your objectivity brother.


Selam
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« Reply #123 on: July 23, 2012, 12:49:02 PM »

Dear friend, I have repeatedly stated that I did not post the video as an example of Orthodox doctrine, but simply to demonstrate that some Rastafarians are Orthodox Christians. Who of us is perfect in doctrine or in practice? I know that I am not. Pray for me.

Gebre, it makes very little sense to say "I never posted the video as an example of Orthodoxy; I just posted it to show that some Rastafarians are Orthodox" -- if they are Orthodox, they will be an example of Orthodoxy!  Smiley That's what "Orthodox" means. 'Right believing', if you will. It has nothing to do with perfection in any one individual. None of us are perfect.

Quote
Here is my opinion, and feel free to disagree: It is wrong to worship Christ because of any racial or ethnic depiction, but it is not wrong to rejoice and find comfort in the fact that Our Lord reveals Himself in the ethnicity or race of the person or people to whom He is being revealed.

I can only repeat my own opinion: If "hooray! Christ is black/white/Asian/Native American!" is your reaction to a particular image, then you've got problems (or perhaps the image has, by its political/social connotations, has failed in its job to call us to repentance). Christ is God, and it is precisely because such depictions of Him vary as a result of cultural outlook/influence that they're really not what you should rejoice in when viewing a particular depiction. Again, color absolutely does not matter. Christ is Christ whether in an Ethiopian icon, a Coptic icon, a Syriac icon, a Greek icon, etc., all of which are very much culturally informed in the way that they depict Christ.

Quote
An example: I worship Christ because He is God and because He is the only hope I have of salvation. However, I do not ignore the fact that He was nonviolent (i.e. He refused to kill), that He preached forgiveness, that He condemned the Pharisees, that He gave hope to sinners, that He performed miracles, that He was a Jew, that He was a man, that He was tempted, that He felt every human emotion known to man, etc. I take great comfort in these things, and if I were talented enough to write songs expressing the joy and happiness that these things give me, then I would surely do so.

I am not seeing the connection between all these things and the rejoicing in a Christ of a particular color. Surely a person of any color or race can be nonviolent, can preach forgiveness, can be tempted, etc. This is actually kind of my point: It is absolutely irrelevant to the worship of Christ what we think His skin color was. That's not what we should be focusing on at all.

Quote
Does the fact that Our Lord was a Jew mean that He hated Gentiles? Of course not! Does the fact that He was nonviolent mean that He hated soldiers? Of course not! So if someone who has been oppressed by a false religion that has imposed the image of a "white Jesus" upon them now finds solace and joy in the fact that they have finally seen Our Lord depicted as Black, then why should we be upset by it?


Huh? I'm not following you. It seems like you're making a leap from behavior or character to skin color, and I don't understand the connection.

Quote
We should be more disturbed by the inhumanity, evils, and injustices that were done to Black people (and "brown" and "red" people) by Europeans who oppressed, tortured, and enslaved in the precious name of Our Lord.

Yes. Yes we should. We be disturbed if any people use Jesus Christ to justify unacceptable behavior or political stances.

Quote
Rather than condemning Rastafarians, let us heed the words of St. Paul the Apostle:
"I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." [I Corinthians 9:22]

Yes, and, as the same beloved saint wrote to the Galatians, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." [3:28]
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« Reply #124 on: July 24, 2012, 01:13:16 AM »

Dear friend, I have repeatedly stated that I did not post the video as an example of Orthodox doctrine, but simply to demonstrate that some Rastafarians are Orthodox Christians. Who of us is perfect in doctrine or in practice? I know that I am not. Pray for me.

Gebre, it makes very little sense to say "I never posted the video as an example of Orthodoxy; I just posted it to show that some Rastafarians are Orthodox" -- if they are Orthodox, they will be an example of Orthodoxy!  Smiley That's what "Orthodox" means. 'Right believing', if you will. It has nothing to do with perfection in any one individual. None of us are perfect.

Quote
Here is my opinion, and feel free to disagree: It is wrong to worship Christ because of any racial or ethnic depiction, but it is not wrong to rejoice and find comfort in the fact that Our Lord reveals Himself in the ethnicity or race of the person or people to whom He is being revealed.

I can only repeat my own opinion: If "hooray! Christ is black/white/Asian/Native American!" is your reaction to a particular image, then you've got problems (or perhaps the image has, by its political/social connotations, has failed in its job to call us to repentance). Christ is God, and it is precisely because such depictions of Him vary as a result of cultural outlook/influence that they're really not what you should rejoice in when viewing a particular depiction. Again, color absolutely does not matter. Christ is Christ whether in an Ethiopian icon, a Coptic icon, a Syriac icon, a Greek icon, etc., all of which are very much culturally informed in the way that they depict Christ.

Quote
An example: I worship Christ because He is God and because He is the only hope I have of salvation. However, I do not ignore the fact that He was nonviolent (i.e. He refused to kill), that He preached forgiveness, that He condemned the Pharisees, that He gave hope to sinners, that He performed miracles, that He was a Jew, that He was a man, that He was tempted, that He felt every human emotion known to man, etc. I take great comfort in these things, and if I were talented enough to write songs expressing the joy and happiness that these things give me, then I would surely do so.

I am not seeing the connection between all these things and the rejoicing in a Christ of a particular color. Surely a person of any color or race can be nonviolent, can preach forgiveness, can be tempted, etc. This is actually kind of my point: It is absolutely irrelevant to the worship of Christ what we think His skin color was. That's not what we should be focusing on at all.

Quote
Does the fact that Our Lord was a Jew mean that He hated Gentiles? Of course not! Does the fact that He was nonviolent mean that He hated soldiers? Of course not! So if someone who has been oppressed by a false religion that has imposed the image of a "white Jesus" upon them now finds solace and joy in the fact that they have finally seen Our Lord depicted as Black, then why should we be upset by it?


Huh? I'm not following you. It seems like you're making a leap from behavior or character to skin color, and I don't understand the connection.

Quote
We should be more disturbed by the inhumanity, evils, and injustices that were done to Black people (and "brown" and "red" people) by Europeans who oppressed, tortured, and enslaved in the precious name of Our Lord.

Yes. Yes we should. We be disturbed if any people use Jesus Christ to justify unacceptable behavior or political stances.

Quote
Rather than condemning Rastafarians, let us heed the words of St. Paul the Apostle:
"I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some." [I Corinthians 9:22]

Yes, and, as the same beloved saint wrote to the Galatians, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." [3:28]


OK brother. I can't state things any more clearly than I have. I've repeated myself enough here. If anyone can point out anything I have said that is contrary to Orthodox doctrine, then please do so. Otherwise I will leave it at that. Maybe people can reread my posts if they are still confused about where I stand. I have been very clear about my Orthdox views.


Selam
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« Reply #125 on: November 24, 2012, 11:58:33 AM »

Actually Gebre, you are not Orthodox as you are part of a schismatic group not recognized by any other Orthodox church. You just parade around these forums pretending to be something you aren't. Refusing to listen to people who do have authority and instead act on your own authority. You have never been to Ethiopia, so you aren't Ethiopian. Your church is schismatic and is therefore not Orthodox and it was founded right here in america, so it has nothing to do with Ethiopia. So you aren't Ethiopian and you aren't Orthodox. You spend way too much time trolling around here criticizing everyone else while going out of your way to avoid criticism yourself, or even simple questions at times. Wake up bro.
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« Reply #126 on: November 24, 2012, 10:40:28 PM »

Actually Gebre, you are not Orthodox as you are part of a schismatic group not recognized by any other Orthodox church. You just parade around these forums pretending to be something you aren't. Refusing to listen to people who do have authority and instead act on your own authority. You have never been to Ethiopia, so you aren't Ethiopian. Your church is schismatic and is therefore not Orthodox and it was founded right here in america, so it has nothing to do with Ethiopia. So you aren't Ethiopian and you aren't Orthodox. You spend way too much time trolling around here criticizing everyone else while going out of your way to avoid criticism yourself, or even simple questions at times. Wake up bro.

I consider you my friend all the same, and I love you my brother. Hope you are well. I keep you and your family in my unworthy prayers. Continue to pray for me, a sinner.


Selam
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« Reply #127 on: November 24, 2012, 10:55:13 PM »

Actually Gebre, you are not Orthodox as you are part of a schismatic group not recognized by any other Orthodox church. You just parade around these forums pretending to be something you aren't. Refusing to listen to people who do have authority and instead act on your own authority. You have never been to Ethiopia, so you aren't Ethiopian. Your church is schismatic and is therefore not Orthodox and it was founded right here in america, so it has nothing to do with Ethiopia. So you aren't Ethiopian and you aren't Orthodox. You spend way too much time trolling around here criticizing everyone else while going out of your way to avoid criticism yourself, or even simple questions at times. Wake up bro.

I consider you my friend all the same, and I love you my brother. Hope you are well. I keep you and your family in my unworthy prayers. Continue to pray for me, a sinner.


Selam

Indeed, I love you brother, but at the same time I must be obedient. St Ignatius tells us to have nothing to do with schismatics, so you have to understand that I must separate myself from you and hope that one day you can deny yourself and then take up your cross.
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« Reply #128 on: November 25, 2012, 12:01:12 AM »

So Ioannes, can I get your detailed opinion of Protestantism please? Are they Christians?
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« Reply #129 on: November 25, 2012, 01:39:02 AM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

So Ioannes, can I get your detailed opinion of Protestantism please? Are they Christians?

The brother is entitled to feel however he likes about "schismatic" Orthodox parishes, such are deeply personal and also centrifugal issues in the Orthodox experience in America.  Parishes sue each other in open court about these things.  Perhaps his comments would have been better sent in a PM, I myself don't like to air out dirty laundry..

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #130 on: November 25, 2012, 03:06:19 AM »

Call me naive. Call me ecumenical. Call me liberal. Call me schismatic. But I truly believe all Orthodox Churches are One, and I pray for formal unity to soon be a reality.


"Lord have mercy."



Selam
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"If we are unwilling to accept any truth that we have not first discovered and declared ourselves, we demonstrate that we are interested not in the truth so much as in being right." ~ Thomas Merton ~
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