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Author Topic: Orthodox and the Monarchy  (Read 3583 times) Average Rating: 0
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #90 on: July 07, 2012, 01:36:25 PM »

Should sOmeone enlighten me as to what doesn't it even mean to be a monarchist in the USA? Other than ridiculous posturing
 

Agreed.  It's almost as ridiculous as being a communist in the USA.
Where is becoming orthodox in the USA on the ridiculousness scale, huh?
To someone who sees Orthodoxy as nothing more than an extension of one's secular culture, I guess it would seem like the ultimate absurdity to become Orthodox in the USA.
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ironchapman
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« Reply #91 on: July 07, 2012, 10:32:46 PM »

I find myself increasingly interested in Orthodox theology, fasting, prayers, etc. It'll take some time to get used to it all, but I find myself increasingly liking the idea of me as an Orthodox Christian.

And then I wade into a thread on a topic like monarchism and wonder "Just what am I getting myself into here?"
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HabteSelassie
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« Reply #92 on: July 07, 2012, 10:44:09 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

That is not a normal way to view any human, much less one whose privilege is derived from an accident of birth.
This should be frightening to any sane, thinking person.  By an accident of birth, an accident, blahblah is king and we are subjects to his whims.  Next his son or daughter will reign and on and on.  Absolute power corrupts abosolutely.
 


You are of course free to your opinions, but this is not in agreement with the Orthodox Fathers.  There is plenty of rightful criticism against kings, including by many of the Fathers, but over-all, these criticisms apply equally to ALL political leadership and government, not merely those who wear crowns.  The truth is your philosophy is a bit too cynical for Christianity.  The Scriptures in 1 Peter 2 and Romans 13 remind us that GOD INSTITUTES ALL GOVERNMENT, even the inept and corrupt.  It is GOD who is in total control, not ourselves.  This is the demonic misconception of democracy, to lure people into a selfish, self-centered view of government and politics.  The Church, as demonstrated by Acts 5 and Ephesians 2 is a house of believers unified as one body, for one purpose, not to be divided amongst itself.  Democracy is inherently divisive, which is why by and large the Church has supported monarchy through history. 

The reality is the Church supports WHICHEVER government happens to be in place, republican, monarchy, communist, dictatorship, tyrant, or otherwise, and in the meantime, demands that Christians themselves live the example of a truly Christian life which trumps government.  The worst dictatorship only has blind power, but authority is always invested in the people, even under monarchy or dictatorship, not just democracy.  People are the source of all authority, and raw power is only temporary and fleeting. I personally agree most with the contemporary Roman Catholic campaigns regarding social justice and human dignity and equality, but these are not mutually exclusive to monarchy and are not necessarily guaranteed by republican democracy.

The reality is kings or any government, be it the Queen of England, the Democratic President Barack Obama of the US, or the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, is instituted NOT BY ACCIDENT, but by the very will and power of God.  Check yourself on that my brother, your caustic political views are not quite in line with theology.  You are again, free to have them, and I respect them, indeed, I am an anarchist at heart, but the Church has tamed that fire in me, and God has showed me the true revolution is pure spiritually reactionary Christianity Wink

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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podkarpatska
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« Reply #93 on: July 07, 2012, 10:52:42 PM »

I find myself increasingly interested in Orthodox theology, fasting, prayers, etc. It'll take some time to get used to it all, but I find myself increasingly liking the idea of me as an Orthodox Christian.

And then I wade into a thread on a topic like monarchism and wonder "Just what am I getting myself into here?"

Speaking as an American born Orthodox from an Orthodox family, I will reiterate what I said earlier.

I  have NEVER heard anyone in my family or my church or any other church with which I am personally familiar, nor have I ever heard any of the hundreds of clergy I have known in my life and the six or so Bishops speak AT ALL about this subject, let alone as representing that secular monarchy is the God-preferred means of human government. Not one word, not one sermon, not one article in our Diocesan newspapers and annual publications ---- not an iota of thought on the subject.

This is an arcane exercise entered into online and in the fevered imaginations of people with little but time on their hands. Don't let this silly discussion steer you away from the Faith and the pursuit of truth.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 10:52:57 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
ialmisry
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« Reply #94 on: July 07, 2012, 11:11:39 PM »

I find myself increasingly interested in Orthodox theology, fasting, prayers, etc. It'll take some time to get used to it all, but I find myself increasingly liking the idea of me as an Orthodox Christian.

And then I wade into a thread on a topic like monarchism and wonder "Just what am I getting myself into here?"

Speaking as an American born Orthodox from an Orthodox family, I will reiterate what I said earlier.

I  have NEVER heard anyone in my family or my church or any other church with which I am personally familiar, nor have I ever heard any of the hundreds of clergy I have known in my life and the six or so Bishops speak AT ALL about this subject, let alone as representing that secular monarchy is the God-preferred means of human government. Not one word, not one sermon, not one article in our Diocesan newspapers and annual publications ---- not an iota of thought on the subject.

This is an arcane exercise entered into online and in the fevered imaginations of people with little but time on their hands. Don't let this silly discussion steer you away from the Faith and the pursuit of truth.
+1

I was a monarchist long before I had anything to do with Orthodoxy.  I'll debate the merits of monarchy with anyone, but never the necessity of being a monarchist to embrace Orthodoxy.  For there is no such requirement.  Most of the people at my parish are die hard republicans.  And Republicans. In all the parishes I've ever been in, no talk of monarchism has ever been brought up, although the responsiblities in a representative republic has been brought up a lot.
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                           and both come out of your mouth
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