Topic: More Orthodox Priests arrested for fraud and theft.

[JR]

This seems to be happening rather a lot these days....

Two clerics in Farsala, southern Thessaly, have been arrested on charges of embezzling hundreds of thousands of euros in forged wage slips.

The two priests, aged 36 and 38, who are in charge of the payroll department at the Thessaliotida and Fanariofarsala Metropolis, were caught red-handed by Larissa police officers as they were collecting 28,864 euros in salaries for Farsala priests -- 20,000 more than the legal amount -- from the local bank.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_28/06/2012_449585

and here

http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/9/56616

[JamesR]

Because the place is in debt since none of those damn Greeks pay their taxes I guess.

[akimori makoto]

This seems to be happening rather a lot these days....

Two clerics in Farsala, southern Thessaly, have been arrested on charges of embezzling hundreds of thousands of euros in forged wage slips.

The two priests, aged 36 and 38, who are in charge of the payroll department at the Thessaliotida and Fanariofarsala Metropolis, were caught red-handed by Larissa police officers as they were collecting 28,864 euros in salaries for Farsala priests -- 20,000 more than the legal amount -- from the local bank.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite1_1_28/06/2012_449585

and here

http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/9/56616

It's just typical Greek corruption and cronyism.

It would be surprising were the Greek Church, which has the State as its paymaster, were not infected by the rot.

Lord, have mercy!

[Orest]

[It's just typical Greek corruption and cronyism.

It would be surprising were the Greek Church, which has the State as its paymaster, were not infected by the rot.

Lord, have mercy!

Well said.

[Bruin5]

Because the place is in debt since none of those damn Greeks pay their taxes I guess.

Really?  "Damn Greeks"? 

Corruption in government?  Absolutely.  The difference is that Greeks themselves openly talk about it and acknowledge.  I don't think the level of corruption here is much different and is probably worse.  The difference is the media here doesn't cover it and many Americans would rather put their heads in the sand.

When someone is willing to audit the Federal Reserve and also do an honest accounting of TARP funds, then we'll know. 

Lastly, didn't the OCA have some financial irregularities?  I don't think this issue is limited to Greek clergy.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

Because the place is in debt since none of those damn Greeks pay their taxes I guess.

Really?  "Damn Greeks"? 

Corruption in government?  Absolutely.  The difference is that Greeks themselves openly talk about it and acknowledge.  I don't think the level of corruption here is much different and is probably worse.  The difference is the media here doesn't cover it and many Americans would rather put their heads in the sand.

When someone is willing to audit the Federal Reserve and also do an honest accounting of TARP funds, then we'll know. 

Lastly, didn't the OCA have some financial irregularities?  I don't think this issue is limited to Greek clergy.

Financial irregularities, as well as sexual and other misbehaviors do happen in and out of the Church. In every local church. In every jurisdiction. Nothing new in that. Nobody is holier than others. OTH, in the case of the OCA, at least some effort has been made toward reforms. I pray that others will follow suit, regardless of the misdeeds and irregularities that such reforms will undoubtedly uncover.

[Bruin5]

My point was not that this type of behavior is not limited to Greek clergy.   I know in Greece they will be held accountable by the people because they are, in essence, public employees.  Greeks have a unique view of their Clergy as a result. 

I did find the term "damn Greeks" offensive, especially on this board.  Greek politicians did what politicians in most countries do, especially here.  They got access to what they perceived as free money, and used it to benefit themselves, friends, and buy votes. 

I blame the bankers.  They lent money to a country they had to know was going to have difficulty repaying, and now they use the EU as their collection agency.   Rather than blaming Greece (and they do deserve blame), we should be learning a lesson because we are looking at our future here.

[akimori makoto]

I did find the term "damn Greeks" offensive, especially on this board.  Greek politicians did what politicians in most countries do, especially here.  They got access to what they perceived as free money, and used it to benefit themselves, friends, and buy votes. 

Political rant removed.

[JamesRottnek]

I wonder why when Tallitot posts a link to a story exposing the bad deeds of a priest, people always ask "Is this really news?" or "Did you really need to post this?" but when an Orthodox (or on the road to Orthodox) person posts something, it's assumed that it is news.

[PeterTheAleut]

I wonder why when Tallitot posts a link to a story exposing the bad deeds of a priest, people always ask "Is this really news?" or "Did you really need to post this?" but when an Orthodox (or on the road to Orthodox) person posts something, it's assumed that it is news.

Why should this surprise you? Tallitot's apostasy from Christianity to become a Jew is rather well known by the old-timers on this forum. It seems that he posts such news articles as he does out of a personal vendetta against Christianity. I think it rather far fetched to believe that an Orthodox Christian or someone who's on the road to becoming Orthodox would be acting on a similar vendetta.

Have you noticed also that Tallitot has a thing with bringing up news about the sordid deeds of Roman Catholic priests? I seldom ever see him post similar articles about Orthodox priests.

[Nikolaostheservant]

Because the place is in debt since none of those damn Greeks pay their taxes I guess.

 you are so very qick to say "damn Greeks"- i might be wrong but did u not say something duragatory twards greeks in another thread. If so i think you have a problem.

Would yo have said "dam blacks" if it was about blacks? racisim if for all nationalities.

[JamesRottnek]

I wonder why when Tallitot posts a link to a story exposing the bad deeds of a priest, people always ask "Is this really news?" or "Did you really need to post this?" but when an Orthodox (or on the road to Orthodox) person posts something, it's assumed that it is news.

Why should this surprise you? Tallitot's apostasy from Christianity to become a Jew is rather well known by the old-timers on this forum. It seems that he posts such news articles as he does out of a personal vendetta against Christianity. I think it rather far fetched to believe that an Orthodox Christian or someone who's on the road to becoming Orthodox would be acting on a similar vendetta.

Have you noticed also that Tallitot has a thing with bringing up news about the sordid deeds of Roman Catholic priests? I seldom ever see him post similar articles about Orthodox priests.

But I fail to see why it matters what his reasons are.  The story is either news or it is not news; the reasons why Tallitot posts a story has nothing to do with whether or not it is newsworthy.

[PeterTheAleut]

I wonder why when Tallitot posts a link to a story exposing the bad deeds of a priest, people always ask "Is this really news?" or "Did you really need to post this?" but when an Orthodox (or on the road to Orthodox) person posts something, it's assumed that it is news.

Why should this surprise you? Tallitot's apostasy from Christianity to become a Jew is rather well known by the old-timers on this forum. It seems that he posts such news articles as he does out of a personal vendetta against Christianity. I think it rather far fetched to believe that an Orthodox Christian or someone who's on the road to becoming Orthodox would be acting on a similar vendetta.

Have you noticed also that Tallitot has a thing with bringing up news about the sordid deeds of Roman Catholic priests? I seldom ever see him post similar articles about Orthodox priests.

But I fail to see why it matters what his reasons are.  The story is either news or it is not news; the reasons why Tallitot posts a story has nothing to do with whether or not it is newsworthy.

But I fail to see why this is relevant to this thread. If you wish to ask why the news reported in this thread is worthy of our discussion, that's a fair question to ask here. But if you wish to question my decision to question Tallitot's motives for posting what he thought newsworthy, then I ask you to post your line of questioning to the thread where I posted mine.

[JR]

When I go to church and when I leave, there are always quite a few people outside begging for money or food. when I go to the shops, same thing. when I get on a bus, trolly, tram etc people get on begging, when I eat out (very rare) people come to the table asking for some money or even for the scraps on my table.

The majority of the people I know are living below poverty level, there is no work and life is very tough for most people here in Greece, if they are Greek or not.

This is more than news to people here including myself, we look up to the priests, we ask for there blessing, and we know that they are paid tax free, they work hard and don't mind.

But what these priests have done in this story and not only these priests , but others too. I personally feel like I have been punched in the stomach, and so do many of the other Greek faithful.

We don't want our priests to be thought of by the people as they do the politicians, so when news like this comes out, the people want to know that justice will be done, and the corruption in the country is being tackled and got rid off.

As for the person that blamed this on the Greek people, I can tell you as someone that is not Greek. That the Greeks are hard working and mostly honest, the people can not be blamed for the actions of a few political super powers that have lied and cheated there way around for years.

And the normal employed people do pay more than there far share of tax, it is the rich that don't!

The Greek church and the faithful need your prayers to weed out the corrupt.

[Zenovia]

I would hesitate before accepting anything that the Greek state says in regard to the priests or the Greek Church.  Let's not forget that the the Elder Ephraim was jailed for supposedly making a better deal on the exchange of property.  He planned on using the money  to build a non state hospital and repair the monastery, and that's what probably irked them.    He was exonerated of any wrong doing, as were all the rest involved in the case, and yet they jailed him and not the others.  

  The political party at the time was ousted in Greece because of all the media hype about the real estate deal, so a reporter of Vanity Fair decided to investigate the case.  He found that everything said about the monks having homes in the Bahamas and living the high life were Greek imaginations gone wild.  

I know that there have been thousands of suicides in Greece because people are in dire need.  The Metropolitan of Athens said that all his money is given out even before he gets to the bottom of the stairs, so to think that these priests would be taking money for their own pockets while their destitute parishioners are asking them for help, is an accusation that is a little far fetched...even for atheists and communists.  I would wait a bit before jumping to conclusions.    

[Orthodox11]

It would be surprising were the Greek Church, which has the State as its paymaster, were not infected by the rot.

Unfortunately, wherever the Church has enough money to pay priests a decent wage (whether from the Sate, wealthy donors, or the tithes of the faithful), there will be those who put themselves forward to serve mammon rather than God.

While the current suffering of the Greek people makes the actions of these individual priests particularly disgraceful, the tremendous work the Church of Greece (and the Church of Cyprus, which is sending over a lot of financial and material aid) to alleviate the situation is commendable.

[Zenovia]

It would be surprising were the Greek Church, which has the State as its paymaster, were not infected by the rot.

Unfortunately, wherever the Church has enough money to pay priests a decent wage (whether from the Sate, wealthy donors, or the tithes of the faithful), there will be those who put themselves forward to serve mammon rather than God.

Yet, I've found that it's the mammon worshipping clerics who are never  scrutinized or questioned....maybe it's because they have satan on their side?  I would wait a bit before jumping to conclusions about these priests because the first thing revolutionists and anarchists undermine and attack is the Church.   

[orthonorm]

Tallitot is wonderful.

Peter if you ignore James' behavior you don't like it will eventually go away.

Just saying.

[PeterTheAleut]

Tallitot is wonderful.

Peter if you ignore James' behavior you don't like it will eventually go away.

He posts like that even without my response, so I'm not putting any faith in that unpithy little bit of unwisdom.

Just saying.

I notice you responded to me.