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Author Topic: major theological differences between Orthodox and RC beliefs  (Read 1137 times) Average Rating: 0
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Rdunbar123
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« on: June 26, 2012, 05:16:44 PM »

I was just curious and wanted to give a list of what I perceived to be the major differences between Orthodox and RC beliefs. As a former and fairly recent RC(practicing not occasional) this is more a check of my knowledge than anythings else. Since the theology overlaps I would like to be sure that I have been well instructed both in class and my reading.if I haven't run accross or been told to the contrary, I usually interpret things in light of my RC beliefs) Please add to the list(not things that different jurisdictions in Orthodoxy disagree about-that could be a subject of a very long post) thanks. My list as it comes to mind in no particular order(that also would cause a fight).

1. primacy of Bishop of Rome
2. addition of Filioque to Creed
3.concept of Original sin(guilt vs consequences)
4.leavened vs unleavened bread
5.theosis (vs sort of legalistic approach)
6.confession(healing vs penitential)
7.married vs unmarried clergy(ignoring Anglican Ordinate)
8.emphasis on daily prayer rule and fasting(strongly emphasized in Orthodoxy).
9.marriage ceremony itself(Western belief is that the couple are the  ministers of marraige)
10.annulment of marriage vs ecclesiastical divorce
11. I know there is more and will kick myself as soon as i hit the post button

Excuse the spelling as I am an engineer
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2012, 05:32:53 PM »

Papal infallibility.

That is it. Everything else is window dressing.

You remove the whole Papal infallibility thing and all the rest of the arguing will come to an end outside of internet boards.
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2012, 05:57:53 PM »

I'd add the liberalization of liturgy and ecumenism, though these are fairly recent problems.
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« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2012, 07:09:02 PM »

I was just curious and wanted to give a list of what I perceived to be the major differences between Orthodox and RC beliefs.

Dear Rdunbar - I am in a somewhat similar situation - inevitably looking at the whole issue with a Western mind-set and seeing the matter in terms of intellectualism and seeking theological answers.

Rather, I find just letting the Divine Liturgy wash over me solves the need to intellectualize everything.



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« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2012, 07:15:11 PM »

Papal infallibility.

And universal jurisdiction.

Also the "universal" dogmatization of beliefs that shouldn't be declared universal dogma.

There's also the nature of the change in the creed, but that's a whole discussion in itself.
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« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2012, 07:44:01 PM »

Papal infallibility.

That is it. Everything else is window dressing.

You remove the whole Papal infallibility thing and all the rest of the arguing will come to an end outside of internet boards.

Spot on!--on so many levels.
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2012, 07:46:39 PM »

I was just curious and wanted to give a list of what I perceived to be the major differences between Orthodox and RC beliefs.

Dear Rdunbar - I am in a somewhat similar situation - inevitably looking at the whole issue with a Western mind-set and seeing the matter in terms of intellectualism and seeking theological answers.

Rather, I find just letting the Divine Liturgy wash over me solves the need to intellectualize everything.





Wayseeker, that is the best way and many of us have lived just that exact experience before becoming Orthodox.
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Rdunbar123
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 09:13:29 PM »

I was just curious and wanted to give a list of what I perceived to be the major differences between Orthodox and RC beliefs.

Dear Rdunbar - I am in a somewhat similar situation - inevitably looking at the whole issue with a Western mind-set and seeing the matter in terms of intellectualism and seeking theological answers.

Rather, I find just letting the Divine Liturgy wash over me solves the need to intellectualize everything.

Absolutely agree.. That is probably the biggest difference, the spiritual as opposed to logic/legal





Wayseeker, that is the best way and many of us have lived just that exact experience before becoming Orthodox.
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 11:07:06 PM »

You remove the whole Papal infallibility thing and all the rest of the arguing will come to an end outside of internet boards.
If so, why no union before 1870? (when papal infallibility was first officially proclaimed dogma)
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 11:41:40 PM »

I was just curious and wanted to give a list of what I perceived to be the major differences between Orthodox and RC beliefs.

Dear Rdunbar - I am in a somewhat similar situation - inevitably looking at the whole issue with a Western mind-set and seeing the matter in terms of intellectualism and seeking theological answers.

Rather, I find just letting the Divine Liturgy wash over me solves the need to intellectualize everything.





Wayseeker, that is the best way and many of us have lived just that exact experience before becoming Orthodox.

I'm finding that to be my experience too - still at the inquirer stage and the Divine Liturgy and prayers reach me on a deeper heart level than book and internet learning.
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« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2012, 03:57:50 AM »

You remove the whole Papal infallibility thing and all the rest of the arguing will come to an end outside of internet boards.
If so, why no union before 1870? (when papal infallibility was first officially proclaimed dogma)

Indeed. They'd need to ditch supremacy, infallibility, universal jurisdiction and anything else that they've added to the papacy since the first millennium. Of course if they did do that and he once again was seen as simply the Patriarch of Rome given primacy by the councils, that really should put an end to it because they'd have to concede that Rome was in the wrong the whole time - which is exactly why they'll never do it.

James
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« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2012, 08:01:41 AM »

Here we go again.

PP
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« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2012, 08:47:42 AM »

Rather, I find just letting the Divine Liturgy wash over me solves the need to intellectualize everything.

Exactly!  Well said!



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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2012, 08:57:07 AM »

Here we go again.

PP

Talk with a Priest and you will see that it is more complicated than you think.  I know that I have the fulness of faith which matters most to me.  Whether there is union or not doesnt bother me as much as it used to.  In my mind, it is important knowing Im on the right side of things.  Or, in other words, Im not loosing any sleep over this situation. 
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2012, 09:00:29 AM »

I will add one that is some times overlooked.

That the Priest is altered into another state when ordained and can not be removed.

Unlike in Orthodoxy where it is something that can be taken/lost if the Priest become unorthodox.
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« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2012, 09:52:17 AM »

Quote
If so, why no union before 1870? (when papal infallibility was first officially proclaimed dogma)
We have a 1300 year history of brushing Papal claims off before that. St. Photios fought them, the Bishops before him fought them. See the Quartodecimin controversy.
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« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2012, 10:16:17 AM »

You remove the whole Papal infallibility thing and all the rest of the arguing will come to an end outside of internet boards.
If so, why no union before 1870? (when papal infallibility was first officially proclaimed dogma)

Indeed. They'd need to ditch supremacy, infallibility, universal jurisdiction and anything else that they've added to the papacy since the first millennium. Of course if they did do that and he once again was seen as simply the Patriarch of Rome given primacy by the councils, that really should put an end to it because they'd have to concede that Rome was in the wrong the whole time - which is exactly why they'll never do it.

James


The authority of the Pope, his individual, unilateral authority over the whole of the church, is the overwhelming problem, along with the doctrine of his infallibility too.  The biggest problem with the matter of the "filioque" is that the Pope superseded the work of two Ecumenical Synods (Councils), and modified the language of the "Symbol of Faith," the "Creed," language that is based in scripture.

P.S. The Roman Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God, is also a matter of substantial dispute, among Eastern Orthodox Christians, not noted above from what I saw.

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« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2012, 09:58:54 AM »

Here we go again.

PP

Talk with a Priest and you will see that it is more complicated than you think.  I know that I have the fulness of faith which matters most to me.  Whether there is union or not doesnt bother me as much as it used to.  In my mind, it is important knowing Im on the right side of things.  Or, in other words, Im not loosing any sleep over this situation. 
Im speaking of the argument on here; not the complexity of the situation (which is huge)

PP
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« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2012, 11:19:11 AM »

I will add one that is some times overlooked.

That the Priest is altered into another state when ordained and can not be removed.

Unlike in Orthodoxy where it is something that can be taken/lost if the Priest become unorthodox.

I think a priest in the RCC can be laicized (sp?) which means he can not perform his normal duties as a priest ie say Mass, hear confessions, perform sacraments, but only in extreme cases of emergency can he perform Holy Unction.  Comments?Huh?
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« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2012, 11:21:27 AM »

The Big Three: The Filioque and Papal Supremacy, Infallibility are at the crux of the issue of separation.....
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 11:21:59 AM by JoeS2 » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2012, 11:23:28 AM »

[edit]
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« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2012, 08:32:07 AM »

I will add one that is some times overlooked.

That the Priest is altered into another state when ordained and can not be removed.

Unlike in Orthodoxy where it is something that can be taken/lost if the Priest become unorthodox.

I think a priest in the RCC can be laicized (sp?) which means he can not perform his normal duties as a priest ie say Mass, hear confessions, perform sacraments, but only in extreme cases of emergency can he perform Holy Unction.  Comments?Huh?

 I do not know about that, I was just told that they believe that when you become a priest/bishop you become something else, more than ordinary.
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« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2012, 08:34:17 AM »

I will add one that is some times overlooked.

That the Priest is altered into another state when ordained and can not be removed.

Unlike in Orthodoxy where it is something that can be taken/lost if the Priest become unorthodox.

I think a priest in the RCC can be laicized (sp?) which means he can not perform his normal duties as a priest ie say Mass, hear confessions, perform sacraments, but only in extreme cases of emergency can he perform Holy Unction.  Comments?Huh?

 I do not know about that, I was just told that they believe that when you become a priest/bishop you become something else, more than ordinary.
Yeah, I heard that too. So maybe there is something to Magneto's Homo Sapien Superior? laugh

PP
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