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Author Topic: How should I response?  (Read 716 times) Average Rating: 0
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walter1234
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« on: November 25, 2012, 05:57:00 AM »

Recently, I discuss with my friend. I say that Protestant is totally nonsense. It is nonsense that God had abandoned His Church for more than a thousand years .And then , He suddenly asked a German Monk to create a new church and teach some new truth and doctrines which cannot be found in 1st-16th century.

My friend said that the aim of Christians is to build perfect relationship with God.And Holy spirit would guide Him to know and enter the truth. Which denomination/church He belong to is not important.



How should I response him?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 06:01:40 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2012, 06:01:17 AM »

My friend said that the aim of Christians is to build perfect relationship with God.And Holy spirit would guide Him to know and enter the truth. Which denomination/church He belong to is not important.

How come protestants are so divided on so many issues if the Holy Spirit would guide them to know and enter the truth?
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« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2012, 06:03:38 AM »

My church/my friend also said that Christians should put all their focus on God,but not the denominations/Church
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 06:17:54 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2012, 06:07:40 AM »

U should tell him that Jesus said that "on the last days there will come many false prophets and false Christs and say Christ is here(in our denomination)" and the Apostles said "even if an angel preaches another Gospel or another Christ let him be anathema"  and so one.. if the Holy Spirit guides the Protestants than why so many divisions and different opinions among Protestantism?
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« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2012, 06:09:20 AM »

My church also said that Christians should put all their focus on God,but not the denominations/Church

ur church is correct..

though we must respect the Church, because it was appointed by Christ , Matt 16:18 , Matt 18:17.
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« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2012, 06:20:11 AM »

yet from my pov it is still debatable if Christ left behind an institutional church or meant an institutional church.
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« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2012, 05:12:40 PM »

It is nonsense that God had abandoned His Church for more than a thousand years .And then , He suddenly asked a German Monk to create a new church and teach some new truth and doctrines which cannot be found in 1st-16th century.

This is not at all what Luther thought. From the Augsburg Confession:

5] This is about the Sum of our Doctrine, in which, as can be seen, there is nothing that varies from the Scriptures, or from the Church Catholic, or from the Church of Rome as known from its writers. This being the case, they judge harshly who insist that our teachers be regarded as heretics. 6] There is, however, disagreement on certain abuses, which have crept into the Church without rightful authority. And even in these, if there were some difference, there should be proper lenity on the part of bishops to bear with us by reason of the Confession which we have now reviewed; because even the Canons are not so severe as to demand the same rites everywhere, neither, at any time, have the rites of all churches been the same; 7] although, among us, in large part, the ancient rites are diligently observed. 8] For it is a false and malicious charge that all the ceremonies, all the things instituted of old, are abolished in our churches. 9] But it has been a common complaint that some abuses were connected with the ordinary rites. These, inasmuch as they could not be approved with a good conscience, have been to some extent corrected.


 http://www.bookofconcord.org/augsburgconfession.php

I really wish people would stop blaming Luther for anything other than the Lutherans. Rome's abuses caused the Reformation not Martin Luther.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2012, 05:18:39 PM by Happy Lutheran » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2012, 11:28:40 PM »

Quote from: Happy Lutheran
Rome's abuses caused the Reformation not Martin Luther.

That's rich.
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« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2012, 12:38:39 AM »

Recently, I discuss with my friend. I say that Protestant is totally nonsense. It is nonsense that God had abandoned His Church for more than a thousand years .And then , He suddenly asked a German Monk to create a new church and teach some new truth and doctrines which cannot be found in 1st-16th century.

My friend said that the aim of Christians is to build perfect relationship with God.And Holy spirit would guide Him to know and enter the truth. Which denomination/church He belong to is not important.



How should I response him?

Try to look at this as though you were an un-believer on the outside looking in,and someone approaches you preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ,and after your confession. You ask them the next most logical question. Which Church do I attend? and what all am I to believe in terms of Baptism, and other doctrines.  As a typical Protestant they would be hard pressed to define the Faith any further than just the "Jesus Died for You" confession. Most likely they would tell you to attend their particular Church,and if you were really on your toes,you would ask them Why not this Church or that Church? Many religions have clearly defined doctrines and teachings,why  should Christianity be any different.
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« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2012, 03:28:00 AM »

Recently, I discuss with my friend. I say that Protestant is totally nonsense. It is nonsense that God had abandoned His Church for more than a thousand years .And then , He suddenly asked a German Monk to create a new church and teach some new truth and doctrines which cannot be found in 1st-16th century.

My friend said that the aim of Christians is to build perfect relationship with God.And Holy spirit would guide Him to know and enter the truth. Which denomination/church He belong to is not important.



How should I response him?
Christ in the Gospels builds the Church.  His Apostles He sent in the Epistles speak of building the Church.  Belonging to that Church Christ and His Apostles built is very important.  To say otherwise is to deny the Truth the Holy Spirit guides us to in Scripture.
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« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2012, 04:40:11 AM »

The problem is that your friend is trying to separate belonging to a particular Church with forming a relationship with God, effectively creating a false dichotomy. The two are intertwined. We believe that yes, the purpose of the Holy Spirit is to guide us into proper standing with God, but that this is not done separately from the Church--we do it through the Church. That the Holy Spirit--which, in fact is only given to people who are Chrismated into the Church--leads us into the Church. The whole notion that it is some individual journey or that the Church doesn't matter is little more than postmodern pseudo-Christian chatter. The Holy Spirit does not lead us in different directions and create division--like Protestantism--but leads us into unity, fellowship and participation in the Church. Even St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I plead with you brethren by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you all speak the same thing and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.". The Holy Spirit creates unity. Any faith that creates dissension and divisions and/or is born from dissension and division is the faith of demons.
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« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2012, 08:15:26 AM »

Quote from: Happy Lutheran
Rome's abuses caused the Reformation not Martin Luther.

That's rich.

The Reformation started long before Luther. Hus, Tyndale et all, the list goes on and on. The big difference is Luther was really the first major figure that Rome wasn't able to Murder due to the protection the German Princes gave him.
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« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2012, 05:23:24 PM »

It is nonsense that God had abandoned His Church for more than a thousand years .And then , He suddenly asked a German Monk to create a new church and teach some new truth and doctrines which cannot be found in 1st-16th century.

This is not at all what Luther thought. From the Augsburg Confession:

Well actually it pretty much was. The Augsburg Confession might present the Lutheran view but Luther himself was far less enthusiastic about the historical church and the Fathers. I wish someone translated Kaarlo Arffman's book about this into English.
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