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Author Topic: Sandusky Found Guilty on 45 of 48 Counts  (Read 4354 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« on: June 22, 2012, 11:01:08 PM »

Jury convicts Jerry Sandusky

Jerry Sandusky was convicted Friday of sexually assaulting 10 boys over 15 years, accusations that shattered the image of Penn State football and led to the firing of Hall of Fame coach Joe Paterno.

Sandusky, a 68-year-old retired defensive coach who once was Paterno's heir apparent, was found guilty on 45 of 48 counts.

Sandusky showed little emotion as the verdict was read. The judge ordered him to be taken to the county jail to await sentencing in about three months. He faces the possibility of life in prison. The charges carry a minimum 60-year sentence and 448 years at maximum...
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2012, 11:07:27 PM »

I like that the police chief gave the credit to the victims who came forward to testify.
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2012, 11:12:10 PM »

Good. Now if we could only sentence pornographers and abortionists to the same fate.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [St. Matthew 18:6]


"Lord have mercy."



Selam
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« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2012, 11:22:30 PM »

448 years, that should do it...
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« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2012, 11:23:50 PM »

Where he's going, he's gonna be playing defensive every day and I hope he loses every day.  
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« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 11:34:03 PM »

Where he's going, he's gonna be playing defensive every day and I hope he loses every day.  
Calm down man. Non bis in idem, you know.
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012, 11:36:40 PM »

Where he's going, he's gonna be playing defensive every day and I hope he loses every day.  
Calm down man. Non bis in idem, you know.

His jail time amore won't be legal, so no double jeopardy.
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 12:49:07 AM »

Good. Now if we could only sentence pornographers and abortionists to the same fate.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [St. Matthew 18:6]


"Lord have mercy."



Selam

Did you seriously just compare pornography to the sexual abuse of young boys?
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 09:35:06 AM »

Good. Now if we could only sentence pornographers and abortionists to the same fate.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [St. Matthew 18:6]


"Lord have mercy."



Selam


And the Women who have had abortions to be logically consistent. Maybe there can be a big midnight round up

Oh and Hugh Heffner.. To the dungeon with him !
« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 09:35:29 AM by Marc1152 » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 01:49:41 PM »

Are you just referring to kiddieporn, or to other porn.  MILF porn and grannyporn would need a different verse.  I am not sure that the Bible even covers most German porn because I'm not sure that even God could have forseen that.


Good. Now if we could only sentence pornographers and abortionists to the same fate.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [St. Matthew 18:6]


"Lord have mercy."



Selam
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2012, 05:27:57 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam
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« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2012, 05:31:36 PM »

Good. Now if we could only sentence pornographers and abortionists to the same fate.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [St. Matthew 18:6]


"Lord have mercy."



Selam


And the Women who have had abortions to be logically consistent. Maybe there can be a big midnight round up

Oh and Hugh Heffner.. To the dungeon with him !


Many women don't really understand that they are murdering an actual child. They have been sold a lie that they are merely removing a blob of tissue. The abortionists are under no such dilusions. They know exactly what they are doing. So, yes, to the dugeon with abortionists, pedophiles, and pornographers!


Selam
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2012, 05:31:45 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam
Amen.
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2012, 07:24:00 PM »

I've got the pitch forks, who's ready for a witch hunt?!
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2012, 08:57:59 PM »

I am not sure that the Bible even covers most German porn because I'm not sure that even God could have forseen that.

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« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2012, 09:36:18 PM »

Good. Now if we could only sentence pornographers and abortionists to the same fate.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [St. Matthew 18:6]


"Lord have mercy."



Selam


And the Women who have had abortions to be logically consistent. Maybe there can be a big midnight round up

Oh and Hugh Heffner.. To the dungeon with him !


Many women don't really understand that they are murdering an actual child. They have been sold a lie that they are merely removing a blob of tissue. The abortionists are under no such dilusions. They know exactly what they are doing. So, yes, to the dugeon with abortionists, pedophiles, and pornographers!


Selam
I hope this means if they repent they don't have to bei n the dungeon anymore Wink
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« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2012, 09:38:29 PM »

Good. Now if we could only sentence pornographers and abortionists to the same fate.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [St. Matthew 18:6]


"Lord have mercy."



Selam


And the Women who have had abortions to be logically consistent. Maybe there can be a big midnight round up

Oh and Hugh Heffner.. To the dungeon with him !


Many women don't really understand that they are murdering an actual child. They have been sold a lie that they are merely removing a blob of tissue. The abortionists are under no such dilusions. They know exactly what they are doing. So, yes, to the dugeon with abortionists, pedophiles, and pornographers!


Selam
I hope this means if they repent they don't have to bei n the dungeon anymore Wink


Of course I pray for their repentance. I wish that for them more than punishment. But until then...


Selam
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« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2012, 11:32:34 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks
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« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2012, 11:40:01 PM »

Good. Now if we could only sentence pornographers and abortionists to the same fate.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [St. Matthew 18:6]


"Lord have mercy."



Selam


And the Women who have had abortions to be logically consistent. Maybe there can be a big midnight round up

Oh and Hugh Heffner.. To the dungeon with him !


Many women don't really understand that they are murdering an actual child. They have been sold a lie that they are merely removing a blob of tissue. The abortionists are under no such dilusions. They know exactly what they are doing. So, yes, to the dugeon with abortionists, pedophiles, and pornographers!


Selam

But that's a decision for a jury.. Ignorance is not a defense if you have killed someone ( "I didnt know the gun was loaded"), it's only a mitigating factor come sentencing time.

So once you are in office we should expect a lot of knocks on the door in the middle of the night and women dragged off to face "justice".  That's if your  premise is to be consistent and taken to it's logical end.

The Intent or
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« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2012, 11:46:37 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks


Keep spouting your spurious "free speech" matra while the children suffer. If only you cared as much about the peace and well being of innocent children as you do about your own right to look at porn.


Selam
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« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2012, 11:49:51 PM »

Good. Now if we could only sentence pornographers and abortionists to the same fate.

"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." [St. Matthew 18:6]


"Lord have mercy."



Selam


And the Women who have had abortions to be logically consistent. Maybe there can be a big midnight round up

Oh and Hugh Heffner.. To the dungeon with him !


Many women don't really understand that they are murdering an actual child. They have been sold a lie that they are merely removing a blob of tissue. The abortionists are under no such dilusions. They know exactly what they are doing. So, yes, to the dugeon with abortionists, pedophiles, and pornographers!


Selam

But that's a decision for a jury.. Ignorance is not a defense if you have killed someone ( "I didnt know the gun was loaded"), it's only a mitigating factor come sentencing time.



If abortion ever becomes illegal again, I would have no problem with trial by jury for anyone complicit in abortion. It should be treated like any other homicide, judged by motives, intent, premeditation, etc.



Selam


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« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2012, 12:52:45 AM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...
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« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2012, 09:01:05 AM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...

I have to agree with Marc here.  While comedians and pornographers are not the same thing (although with some modern "comedy", it is hard to tell), they are both protected by the same Amendment of the Constitution.  So are Priests.  We are not a Theocracy, so get over it.  If you don't like that then move to Iran.  Once you start determining what is protected speech by your own morals, you have NO reason to cry when the majority, who may find your speech spreading the Gospel offensive, decide to silence you.  Nobody forces you to watch porn.  And as for much of what you have listed above, I can find cases where every one of those can be applied to religion.  Maybe we should ban religion.  It has caused FAR more destruction and bloodshed than any pornography.
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« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2012, 01:36:35 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...

I have to agree with Marc here.  While comedians and pornographers are not the same thing (although with some modern "comedy", it is hard to tell), they are both protected by the same Amendment of the Constitution.  So are Priests.  We are not a Theocracy, so get over it.  If you don't like that then move to Iran.  Once you start determining what is protected speech by your own morals, you have NO reason to cry when the majority, who may find your speech spreading the Gospel offensive, decide to silence you.  Nobody forces you to watch porn.  And as for much of what you have listed above, I can find cases where every one of those can be applied to religion.  Maybe we should ban religion.  It has caused FAR more destruction and bloodshed than any pornography.

Relax, friend.  You're expending unnecessary energy as no one has yet argued for the abolition of pornography (although in a perfect world...).  But I would like for you to reconsider your argument that religion has caused more problems than pornography based on some demonstrable facts.  Save for Islam perhaps, Christianity nor Judaism advocates violence.  That guilt belongs solely to individuals using religion to advance their personal desires.  Christianity is responsible for charities, education, and more importantly salvation.  Christianity raises people and cultures up; transforming them completely.  I submit that pornography, though protected, has absolutely zero socially redeeming value.  It takes a beautiful gift from God and completely transforms it into something cruel and base.  What worries me, in addition to what I listed above, is that pornographers have been successful in getting their products into the wrong age-appropriate hands.  Rather than argue that everything should be "protected speech" simply out of fear that Christianity might lose it's protection, we should be trying to bring pornographers to Christ.  And let me remind you, though society might try to stamp out Christianity we both know that nothing, not even the gates of Hell, will prevail in that endeavor. 
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« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2012, 02:47:18 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks


Keep spouting your spurious "free speech" matra while the children suffer. If only you cared as much about the peace and well being of innocent children as you do about your own right to look at porn.


Selam

It seems to me that very weak arguments often try to appeal to how the issue effects children.

I think children will be better served by growing up in a country where there is free speech. I think they would not be well served by a country where people are threatend with Prison when they offend someone's religious sensibilities.
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« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2012, 02:56:17 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...

Yes comedians who had what they used to call "Blue" acts were thrown into jail for violating obscenity Laws. It's the exact same issue.

If you think porn is unhealthy then persuade people of your position. Threatening people with jail and dungeons is juvenile, wont every actually happen and convinces people that Christians are the ones who are evil...
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« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2012, 03:41:56 PM »

Yet another thread I can't play in.

A lot of interesting things said.

Marc actually stumbling over the ideological use of "children" as we have moved to a more permissive and perverse society as a the god we must appease or protect rather than God.

There is always some nebulous other to appease or protect within psyche or society.
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« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2012, 04:12:34 PM »

...(sic)... as we have moved to a more permissive and perverse society as a the god we must appease or protect rather than God.  There is always some nebulous other to appease or protect within psyche or society.
This is pure gold for those who have understanding.
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« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2012, 04:22:46 PM »

I'm all for Free Speech to a point.  I'm just saddened when Christians use this argument as a means to defend evangelizing.  Did St. Paul try to change the law so that he could preach without fear?  I think we've grown accustomed to too much comfort as Christians in America.  It seems that the idea of martyrdom is too disturbing an idea to our comfortable climate-controlled disposable lives.  I never thought I'd see the day when Christians would defend pornography.
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« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2012, 04:25:14 PM »

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  

Because disagreement amounts to stifling free speech.
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« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2012, 04:31:06 PM »

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  

Because disagreement amounts to stifling free speech.
Point taken.  Smiley
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« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2012, 04:40:04 PM »

...(sic)... as we have moved to a more permissive and perverse society as a the god we must appease or protect rather than God.  There is always some nebulous other to appease or protect within psyche or society.
This is pure gold for those who have understanding.


I have no idea what he is talking about. Glad you got something out of it.
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« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2012, 05:48:07 PM »

"As a the god..."  ?

 Huh
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« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2012, 06:08:30 PM »

"As a the god..."  ?

 Huh

typo, take away the a.

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« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2012, 06:10:31 PM »

...(sic)... as we have moved to a more permissive and perverse society as a the god we must appease or protect rather than God.  There is always some nebulous other to appease or protect within psyche or society.
This is pure gold for those who have understanding.


I have no idea what he is talking about. Glad you got something out of it.

Glad you didn't.

I started to attempt to explain what seems plainly obvious to me, then I realized how pointless it would be.

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« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2012, 06:24:57 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...

 Nobody forces you to watch porn.


Countless children are forced to watch porn every day my friend. Why don't we prioritize protecting their freedom? I'm all for individual liberties, including the freedom to volitionally engage in sinful behavior; but when one ostensible individual liberty infringes upon the safety and well being of others, then it reveals itself to be not a liberty but a license of destruction and abuse.


Selam
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« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2012, 06:27:00 PM »

I'm all for Free Speech to a point.  I'm just saddened when Christians use this argument as a means to defend evangelizing.  Did St. Paul try to change the law so that he could preach without fear?  I think we've grown accustomed to too much comfort as Christians in America.  It seems that the idea of martyrdom is too disturbing an idea to our comfortable climate-controlled disposable lives.  I never thought I'd see the day when Christians would defend pornography.


Amen brother. I actually believe that "free speech" is an idol of secularism which taken to its logical conclusion can only lead to anarchy and chaos.


Selam
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« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2012, 06:30:34 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...


If you think porn is unhealthy then persuade people of your position. Threatening people with jail and dungeons is juvenile, wont every actually happen and convinces people that Christians are the ones who are evil...


Ummm... apparrently you haven't noticed, but that's exactly what I'm trying to do here. And I haven't threatened anyone with jail or dungeons. I don't work for Babylon.


Selam
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« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2012, 07:15:17 PM »

Something I think a lot of Free Speech advocates forget is that with the freedom of speech comes the responsibility to use that freedom wisely. Sometimes this responsibility needs to be enforced with legal bounds on our free speech. (Originally, IIRC, the freedom of speech guaranteed in the Bill of Rights was merely the freedom to speak publicly against the government without fear of retribution. It didn't protect the "freedom" to say whatever you damn well please.)
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« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2012, 07:30:37 PM »

Something I think a lot of Free Speech advocates forget is that with the freedom of speech comes the responsibility to use that freedom wisely. Sometimes this responsibility needs to be enforced with legal bounds on our free speech. (Originally, IIRC, the freedom of speech guaranteed in the Bill of Rights was merely the freedom to speak publicly against the government without fear of retribution. It didn't protect the "freedom" to say whatever you damn well please.)


Good point. As John D. Rockefeller said, "I believe that every right implies a responsibility; every opportunity, an obligation; every possession, a duty." But the problem with Rockefeller's ideal (and with our society) is that we have legislated liberties and facilitated opportunities without requiring responsibility, obligation, and duty. We live in a culture where every man and woman is free to do what they please while innocent children are enslaved by these "liberties." The ideals of secularism appear innocuous and even noble at face value, but they mask a corrosive tide of evil that cannot be stanched once it is unleashed.


Selam
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« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2012, 08:13:12 PM »

I am not sure that the Bible even covers most German porn because I'm not sure that even God could have forseen that.

.sig worthy

Seriously, I burst out laughing at that. It's a good thing I wasn't drinking something at the time.
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« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2012, 09:21:47 PM »

Something I think a lot of Free Speech advocates forget is that with the freedom of speech comes the responsibility to use that freedom wisely. Sometimes this responsibility needs to be enforced with legal bounds on our free speech. (Originally, IIRC, the freedom of speech guaranteed in the Bill of Rights was merely the freedom to speak publicly against the government without fear of retribution. It didn't protect the "freedom" to say whatever you damn well please.)

We finally agree!!  Smiley
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« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2012, 09:48:30 PM »

...(sic)... as we have moved to a more permissive and perverse society as a the god we must appease or protect rather than God.  There is always some nebulous other to appease or protect within psyche or society.
This is pure gold for those who have understanding.


I have no idea what he is talking about. Glad you got something out of it.

Glad you didn't.

I started to attempt to explain what seems plainly obvious to me, then I realized how pointless it would be.



oh don't bother . I was just saying that if you put a gun to my head and said I had five minutes to explain what you wrote, I'd be a goner.... If you told me my dear children would be executed if i didn't explain your post, well...........bye kids.

I am sure it's me and not you. 
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« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2012, 10:10:21 PM »

...(sic)... as we have moved to a more permissive and perverse society as a the god we must appease or protect rather than God.  There is always some nebulous other to appease or protect within psyche or society.
This is pure gold for those who have understanding.


I have no idea what he is talking about. Glad you got something out of it.

Glad you didn't.

I started to attempt to explain what seems plainly obvious to me, then I realized how pointless it would be.



oh don't bother . I was just saying that if you put a gun to my head and said I had five minutes to explain what you wrote, I'd be a goner.... If you told me my dear children would be executed if i didn't explain your post, well...........bye kids.

I am sure it's me and not you.  


Don't forget this thread, Marc.
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,44950.msg756893.html#msg756893
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« Reply #44 on: June 24, 2012, 10:23:01 PM »

I'm all for Free Speech to a point.  I'm just saddened when Christians use this argument as a means to defend evangelizing.  Did St. Paul try to change the law so that he could preach without fear?  I think we've grown accustomed to too much comfort as Christians in America.  It seems that the idea of martyrdom is too disturbing an idea to our comfortable climate-controlled disposable lives.  I never thought I'd see the day when Christians would defend pornography.


Amen brother. I actually believe that "free speech" is an idol of secularism which taken to its logical conclusion can only lead to anarchy and chaos.


Selam

How can there be virtue without choice?  Is virtue something that is legislated or proclaimed by judicial fiat?  A free society and its freedoms exist so that one may choose the good.  I grant that most people, including myself, would abuse that, but restrictions and threats to make people obedient is only a negative reaction in fear of punishment rather than a joyful embrace of right.
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« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2012, 11:07:43 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...

I have to agree with Marc here.  While comedians and pornographers are not the same thing (although with some modern "comedy", it is hard to tell), they are both protected by the same Amendment of the Constitution.  So are Priests.  We are not a Theocracy, so get over it.  If you don't like that then move to Iran.  Once you start determining what is protected speech by your own morals, you have NO reason to cry when the majority, who may find your speech spreading the Gospel offensive, decide to silence you.  Nobody forces you to watch porn.  And as for much of what you have listed above, I can find cases where every one of those can be applied to religion.  Maybe we should ban religion.  It has caused FAR more destruction and bloodshed than any pornography.

Relax, friend.  You're expending unnecessary energy as no one has yet argued for the abolition of pornography (although in a perfect world...).  But I would like for you to reconsider your argument that religion has caused more problems than pornography based on some demonstrable facts.  Save for Islam perhaps, Christianity nor Judaism advocates violence.  That guilt belongs solely to individuals using religion to advance their personal desires.  Christianity is responsible for charities, education, and more importantly salvation.  Christianity raises people and cultures up; transforming them completely.  I submit that pornography, though protected, has absolutely zero socially redeeming value.  It takes a beautiful gift from God and completely transforms it into something cruel and base.  What worries me, in addition to what I listed above, is that pornographers have been successful in getting their products into the wrong age-appropriate hands.  Rather than argue that everything should be "protected speech" simply out of fear that Christianity might lose it's protection, we should be trying to bring pornographers to Christ.  And let me remind you, though society might try to stamp out Christianity we both know that nothing, not even the gates of Hell, will prevail in that endeavor. 

I cannot even begin to start arguing with such an ignorance of history . . . as much as I would really like to.  To reconsider my position and agree with you would only mean that we would both be wrong.  Of course, TRUE Christianity would have none of these effects.  However, that is not what I wrote.  I did not even mention so-called Christianity.  I wrote RELIGION.  Even leaving Islam aside, I would think that the Inquisition killed more people than Porn.  Then we have the 30 years war.  There are the battles between Protestant and RC in Ireland.  Child abuse?  Is there any organization that did a better job of systematic child molestation than the Roman Catholic Church?  And what about the extinction of the native populations of North and South America?  Care to read what the Methodists did to the Aleuts after the US purchased Alaska?  The victims of these actions can be numbered with some research.  Do you have any numbers for the victims of porn?  Do they come close to even one of the events that I have mentioned?  My guess is no.

Now, in case one thinks that this an argument for porn and against religion, it is not.  In a perfect world, I would like to see no porn and everyone be TRUE Christians.  But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.
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« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2012, 11:11:45 PM »

I'm all for Free Speech to a point.  I'm just saddened when Christians use this argument as a means to defend evangelizing.  Did St. Paul try to change the law so that he could preach without fear?  I think we've grown accustomed to too much comfort as Christians in America.  It seems that the idea of martyrdom is too disturbing an idea to our comfortable climate-controlled disposable lives.  I never thought I'd see the day when Christians would defend pornography.

Even Paul cautioned people not to needlessly seek martyrdom.  And I don't see any Christians defending pornography.  I see people here defending free speech as institutionalized in our Constitution.  Unfortunately, I have seen too much of the day where people abandon rational argument and result to emotional BS like your last statement when their arguments fail.
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« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2012, 11:17:18 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...

 Nobody forces you to watch porn.


Countless children are forced to watch porn every day my friend. Why don't we prioritize protecting their freedom? I'm all for individual liberties, including the freedom to volitionally engage in sinful behavior; but when one ostensible individual liberty infringes upon the safety and well being of others, then it reveals itself to be not a liberty but a license of destruction and abuse.


Selam

Yes, the children FORCED to watch porn everyday are probably countless only because so few exist and they are so unknown that no accurate account can be made.  If it could be PROVEN that children are FORCED to watch porn in this country, those forcing them would be arrested under current statutes present in virtually all of our States.  ALLOWING something to exist is often protected by law.  FORCING one to participate in things is very often illegal.  They are really two separate concepts.
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« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2012, 11:20:28 PM »

I'm all for Free Speech to a point.  I'm just saddened when Christians use this argument as a means to defend evangelizing.  Did St. Paul try to change the law so that he could preach without fear?  I think we've grown accustomed to too much comfort as Christians in America.  It seems that the idea of martyrdom is too disturbing an idea to our comfortable climate-controlled disposable lives.  I never thought I'd see the day when Christians would defend pornography.


Amen brother. I actually believe that "free speech" is an idol of secularism which taken to its logical conclusion can only lead to anarchy and chaos.


Selam

How can there be virtue without choice?  Is virtue something that is legislated or proclaimed by judicial fiat?  A free society and its freedoms exist so that one may choose the good.  I grant that most people, including myself, would abuse that, but restrictions and threats to make people obedient is only a negative reaction in fear of punishment rather than a joyful embrace of right.

Agreed.  It would be much better if all of the "good Christians" would lead the kind of life that would make the "sinners" out there want to be good Christians rather than try to use a secular government to ban everything that they do not like because their example is insufficient to convert those that do these things.
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« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2012, 11:43:27 PM »

What are your thoughts on how far the Sandusky Scandal goes?

Quote
http://corporatemediaexposed.com/speedy-sandusky-trial-and-conviction-used-to-cover-up-large-scale-pedophile-ring/

June 22, 2012

Jerry Sandusky has been convicted of 45 counts of child sex abuse less than eight months after Penn State and the world were rocked with the revelations that the former football coach had sexually assaulted numerous children.

Sadly justice may have only been partially served with the corporate controlled media and most of the world ignoring the initial claims that Sandusky was running a child sex ring through his foundation, Second Mile.
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« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2012, 11:52:58 PM »

I hope Sandusky comes to repentence while in prison.
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« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2012, 12:02:33 AM »

I hope Sandusky comes to repentence while in prison.
^Exactly  Smiley
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« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2012, 01:32:16 AM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...

 Nobody forces you to watch porn.


Countless children are forced to watch porn every day my friend. Why don't we prioritize protecting their freedom? I'm all for individual liberties, including the freedom to volitionally engage in sinful behavior; but when one ostensible individual liberty infringes upon the safety and well being of others, then it reveals itself to be not a liberty but a license of destruction and abuse.


Selam

Yes, the children FORCED to watch porn everyday are probably countless only because so few exist and they are so unknown that no accurate account can be made.  If it could be PROVEN that children are FORCED to watch porn in this country, those forcing them would be arrested under current statutes present in virtually all of our States.  ALLOWING something to exist is often protected by law.  FORCING one to participate in things is very often illegal.  They are really two separate concepts.


To assert that not many children are affected by being subjected to pornography is a very ignorant assertion my friend. The problem with many of these secular "freedoms" is that there is no way to monitor or control how these "freedoms" are used to harm others. Children living in an environment where they are routinely exposed to pornography is equivalent to them being forced to look at it since they have no choice in the matter. This is quite common. And while I cannot prove it, I am afraid that there are more pedophiles out there than we realize. Why not put the welfare of children before our own freedom to pursue licentious depravities?


Selam
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« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2012, 01:32:59 AM »

I hope Sandusky comes to repentence while in prison.
^Exactly  Smiley


Amen.



Selam
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« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2012, 01:43:41 AM »

I'm all for Free Speech to a point.  I'm just saddened when Christians use this argument as a means to defend evangelizing.  Did St. Paul try to change the law so that he could preach without fear?  I think we've grown accustomed to too much comfort as Christians in America.  It seems that the idea of martyrdom is too disturbing an idea to our comfortable climate-controlled disposable lives.  I never thought I'd see the day when Christians would defend pornography.


Amen brother. I actually believe that "free speech" is an idol of secularism which taken to its logical conclusion can only lead to anarchy and chaos.


Selam

How can there be virtue without choice?  Is virtue something that is legislated or proclaimed by judicial fiat?  A free society and its freedoms exist so that one may choose the good.  I grant that most people, including myself, would abuse that, but restrictions and threats to make people obedient is only a negative reaction in fear of punishment rather than a joyful embrace of right.


People will always have freedom of choice. No legislation can negate free will. But the secularists have done a masterful job of defending things like abortion and pornography as protecting human volition. But the law cannot thwart free will. People can always excercise their freedom to break the law. Women had abortions before it was legal, pornographers printed porn before it was legal, people drank alcohol during prohibition, etc. So this idea that we have to protect anything and everything in the name of "free speech" and "freedom of choice" is absurd. Those who are truly concerned that legislation infringes upon human volition should advocate the abolition of all laws altogether, because every law is essentially a restraint or a parameter on freedom.


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« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2012, 01:51:47 AM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.


Selam
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« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2012, 02:02:33 AM »

I moved from that area a year and a half ago.  This verdict fills me with joy.  Watching this whole ugly mess unfold has been very disturbing for me.  My son still lives in State College.  I live in fear that he ever decide to attend that school.  This Sandusky affair is just a tiny peek into the ugliness that goes on at that school.  And that initial riot when Paterno was suspended?  Not an unusual occurrence at all.  The students rioted 3 times in the 4 years I lived out there--thousands of out-of-control students tearing up in the streets, overturning cars, bringing down lamp posts--always over football.  I worked overnight in Giant grocery store out there, and the students routinely (almost nightly) came in drunk, high, covered in vomit, blood, urine.  A frequent complaint concerns students urinating on people's houses and right in the doorway of businesses, and the smell it creates.  

Their notoriety as the number one party school in the country is unfortunately well-earned, and rather than see that distinction as the badge of shame that it truly is, they actually brag about it.  Over and above regular college partying.  Way.  Sorry if this all sounds like griping or trolling, but I've got a real bad taste in my mouth for that school.  It's both the gift and the curse of State College.  By virtue of PSU, that area is one of the most richly diverse areas I've ever lived in or even heard about.  It was one of the few things that made living within a mile and a half of that university a pleasure.  The school itself is an embarrassment.  I've lived in close proximity to OSU, YSU, UB, ESU, and Canisius.  There's no comparison.  

The cabal-istic way this tragedy was covered up from the start seems to be the general way they deal with stuff like this.  
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« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2012, 02:05:00 AM »

Quote
Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

I couldn't have said it better.  In that kind of world--where deviance is tolerated--makes hostages of everyone else.  There's no freedom to be found in a society like that.  
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« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2012, 02:09:47 AM »

Quote
Expresident Spanier is also linked to Franklin Scandal
(Free Republic exclusive)
November 20, 2011

If it is not odd enough that Mr. Spanier was complicit in not reporting the Sandusky rape to the police, Mr. Spanier has a direct link to the sordid “Franklin Scandal” in Omaha, Nebraska (child kidnaping for sexual abuse and trafficking scandal). Looking at Mr. Spanier’s biography, one can easily see that he served as Chancellor at University of Nebraska-Lincoln from 1991 to 1995 right towards the end of the Franklin scandal.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2810206
It seems like alot of news about this.
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« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2012, 09:47:26 AM »

I hope Sandusky comes to repentence while in prison.
^Exactly  Smiley

There is an interesting thing about some pedophiles in Prison. They will tell you straight up that they know how evil this is. They will tell you that it is a compulsion that they cant control and that you better keep them locked up because if let free they are sure they would do it again.
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« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2012, 09:56:57 AM »

Quote
Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

I couldn't have said it better.  In that kind of world--where deviance is tolerated--makes hostages of everyone else.  There's no freedom to be found in a society like that.  

ya..How very noble.. However when religious folks start talking about throwing people into Prison based on points of religious morality, my teeth start to itch.

I think I'll stick with the Constitution.

I've never personally been forced to watch porn, but the idea  would have had some appeal at certain points in my life.
Not now of course.............   
 police
 
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« Reply #61 on: June 25, 2012, 10:22:15 AM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?
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« Reply #62 on: June 25, 2012, 10:52:11 AM »

I hope Sandusky comes to repentence while in prison.
^Exactly  Smiley

There is an interesting thing about some pedophiles in Prison. They will tell you straight up that they know how evil this is. They will tell you that it is a compulsion that they cant control and that you better keep them locked up because if let free they are sure they would do it again.
I know and that's sad. Do you think if prisons were better at rehabilitation maybe these people won't do it again?
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« Reply #63 on: June 25, 2012, 11:49:45 AM »

I hope Sandusky comes to repentence while in prison.
^Exactly  Smiley

There is an interesting thing about some pedophiles in Prison. They will tell you straight up that they know how evil this is. They will tell you that it is a compulsion that they cant control and that you better keep them locked up because if let free they are sure they would do it again.
I know and that's sad. Do you think if prisons were better at rehabilitation maybe these people won't do it again?

There are special programs in many facilities to treat sex offenders. Lot's of therapy and even
"Castration" drugs that take they led out of your pencil.. It's a very tough thing to treat as I understand it.
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« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2012, 11:55:55 AM »

Sometimes a man needs some alone time with his computer in his Den.

knock on door

BOOM BOOM BOOM

Police: "We know you're in there and we know what you are doing. Come out with your hands up"

Police: "Both hands'

Perv: "I just need one more minute"

Police: "If you dont come out right now, we are going to bust the door down"

Perv: "Okay....just..........one ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,more ............min
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« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2012, 12:30:36 PM »

I cannot even begin to start arguing with such an ignorance of history
I stand by my comments.  Molesting priests, the Troubles in Northern Ireland, the political machinations of the 30 years war, etc... Horrible as these are, they are the machinations of people who happened to be Christians; Christians and Christianity are two different things.  If you ban RELIGION, you ban Christianity.   
 
But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.
This is a defeatist mentality and not becoming of a Christian man.  The same rights that allow pornographers to print their trash also gives me the rights to work for legislation to curb them.  I'm not advocating jail, dungeons, iron maidens or anything else to halt their freedoms; but as a Christian I cannot be comfortable with my Bible while this trash is allowed to ruin lives.  So what to do?  As I said before, enter new legislation and pray.  But being complacent with sin just so I can have a Bible is antithetical to Christianity when the Bible admonishes me to do something about the sin in the world. 
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« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2012, 12:34:05 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

I have no problem with a little violence as long as no one is killed.  Jesus had no problem with giving the money changers a beat down and breaking their tables.  Turning a blind eye or making deals is not the way of a Christian.
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« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2012, 01:00:42 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Gebre's denial of his own violence is extreme. In his first post in this thread IIRC, his reliance on violence rather blatant.

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« Reply #68 on: June 25, 2012, 01:14:28 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

I have no problem with a little violence as long as no one is killed.  

I was specifically addressing Gebre's outspoken advocacy of pacifism in other places. It seems exceptions occur when we are A. cracking down on pornogrophers to protect our kids; and B. beating our kids.
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« Reply #69 on: June 25, 2012, 01:35:36 PM »

And we find ourselves back to my unintelligible post about the fetishizing of children as the super big power which determines our discussion of morality especially sexual morality.

I'll spare Gebre the use of his particular fetish and denial as a case study of my point.
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« Reply #70 on: June 25, 2012, 01:53:34 PM »

Children all over the world suffer from the effects of pornography. Many children are exposed to pornography by adults at a very young age, and many pedophiles use pornography (not only child pornogrpahy) to lure children into their demonic trap. So anyone who thinks there is no link or correlation between pornography and child abuse is simply ignorant or naive. Get your heads out of the sand. In fact, I would argue that Hugh Heffner and Larry Flynt have negatively affected far more children than this sick S.O.B. Sandusky. Just because they haven't physically abused children themselves does not mean that children have not suffered from their actions.


Selam

..It's kind of a free speech thing. We used to throw comedians in jail when they talked dirty during their acts. Lenny Bruce was literally pulled down from the stage by the cops. Worry about your own morality and leave the rest of us in peace.   Thanks

If it's a free speech thing, then why are you stifling his free speech?  And surely, please tell me it ain't so- you surely aren't comparing comedians to pornographers are you?  Really?  I'm with Gebre 100% on the Porn Crusade.  

Pornography:

1 has lead to sex crimes.
2 is the number one addiction in the US.
3 ruins marriages.
4 ruins self-esteem of both men and women.
5 creates unhealthy and unrealistic fantasies.

etc...

 Nobody forces you to watch porn.


Countless children are forced to watch porn every day my friend. Why don't we prioritize protecting their freedom? I'm all for individual liberties, including the freedom to volitionally engage in sinful behavior; but when one ostensible individual liberty infringes upon the safety and well being of others, then it reveals itself to be not a liberty but a license of destruction and abuse.


Selam

Yes, the children FORCED to watch porn everyday are probably countless only because so few exist and they are so unknown that no accurate account can be made.  If it could be PROVEN that children are FORCED to watch porn in this country, those forcing them would be arrested under current statutes present in virtually all of our States.  ALLOWING something to exist is often protected by law.  FORCING one to participate in things is very often illegal.  They are really two separate concepts.


To assert that not many children are affected by being subjected to pornography is a very ignorant assertion my friend. The problem with many of these secular "freedoms" is that there is no way to monitor or control how these "freedoms" are used to harm others. Children living in an environment where they are routinely exposed to pornography is equivalent to them being forced to look at it since they have no choice in the matter. This is quite common. And while I cannot prove it, I am afraid that there are more pedophiles out there than we realize. Why not put the welfare of children before our own freedom to pursue licentious depravities? Conjecture

Fixed that for you.
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« Reply #71 on: June 25, 2012, 01:53:34 PM »

I hope Sandusky comes to repentence while in prison.
^Exactly  Smiley

There is an interesting thing about some pedophiles in Prison. They will tell you straight up that they know how evil this is. They will tell you that it is a compulsion that they cant control and that you better keep them locked up because if let free they are sure they would do it again.
I know and that's sad. Do you think if prisons were better at rehabilitation maybe these people won't do it again?

It isn't really the problem of prisons, necessarily.  Rather, there would need to be a serious effort on the part of the pedophile and a psychologist/psychiatrist/other psychoanalyst, to reduce their risk of offending.  In that regard, the prison probably could make for a better opportunity, but I imagine there isn't a great deal of interest in state legislators for spending more money to help pedophiles.
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« Reply #72 on: June 25, 2012, 02:33:56 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Most Christians don't need to perpetrate violence to deal with society's ills.  There are always plenty of Christians willing to perpetrate violence for them so they don't have to.  

BTW, when you come to power, Gebre, please give me a call and we can deal with the abortionists and paedophiles.  I will keep it nice and quiet so everyone will have plausible deniability.  They will even be given fair trials...right before they're "sentenced".




Besides, the whole Pr0n debate is senseless.  If we'd just legalize prostitution the porn addiction would end.

Failing that we could just make marriage a more rational option.  Do it younger and remove the cash and prizes from divorce settlements.  But ha, I'm just making funny talk here.  Changing society would take too much effort.  Just stick with the prostitutes.  
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« Reply #73 on: June 25, 2012, 04:18:08 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Most Christians don't need to perpetrate violence to deal with society's ills.  There are always plenty of Christians willing to perpetrate violence for them so they don't have to.  

BTW, when you come to power, Gebre, please give me a call and we can deal with the abortionists and paedophiles.  I will keep it nice and quiet so everyone will have plausible deniability.  They will even be given fair trials...right before they're "sentenced".




Besides, the whole Pr0n debate is senseless.  If we'd just legalize prostitution the porn addiction would end.

Failing that we could just make marriage a more rational option.  Do it younger and remove the cash and prizes from divorce settlements.  But ha, I'm just making funny talk here.  Changing society would take too much effort.  Just stick with the prostitutes.  

Decriminalizing prostitution doesn't change "illegal" prostitution. Go to any Western European country where prostitution is regulated. The market for illegal prostitution remains.

Wrote an entire monograph 140 varieties of as . . . what forum are we in?

Too little time to correct the misconceptions here on the impact of pr0n and now prostitution on illegal sexual behavior.

In short, pr0n mitigates it. Prostitution changes the game very little.
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« Reply #74 on: June 25, 2012, 04:45:54 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

I have no problem with a little violence as long as no one is killed.  

I was specifically addressing Gebre's outspoken advocacy of pacifism in other places. It seems exceptions occur when we are A. cracking down on pornogrophers to protect our kids; and B. beating our kids.

We have a very unruly young boy at our parish. ADD X1000 . I told his parents. "You know, you only have to beat them once"
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« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2012, 05:08:47 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Most Christians don't need to perpetrate violence to deal with society's ills.  There are always plenty of Christians willing to perpetrate violence for them so they don't have to.  

BTW, when you come to power, Gebre, please give me a call and we can deal with the abortionists and paedophiles.  I will keep it nice and quiet so everyone will have plausible deniability.  They will even be given fair trials...right before they're "sentenced".




Besides, the whole Pr0n debate is senseless.  If we'd just legalize prostitution the porn addiction would end.

Failing that we could just make marriage a more rational option.  Do it younger and remove the cash and prizes from divorce settlements.  But ha, I'm just making funny talk here.  Changing society would take too much effort.  Just stick with the prostitutes.  

Decriminalizing prostitution doesn't change "illegal" prostitution. Go to any Western European country where prostitution is regulated. The market for illegal prostitution remains.

Wrote an entire monograph 140 varieties of as . . . what forum are we in?

Too little time to correct the misconceptions here on the impact of pr0n and now prostitution on illegal sexual behavior.

In short, pr0n mitigates it. Prostitution changes the game very little.

I think your second line, after the ellipses, will keep me back from most of my opinions on the matter.  We may have to take this to PM.
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« Reply #76 on: June 25, 2012, 07:32:30 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Gebre's denial of his own violence is extreme. In his first post in this thread IIRC, his reliance on violence rather blatant.




I know people love to make straw man caricatures of my pacifist position, but that's hardly productive to an honest discussion. I've been quite clear in condemning violence against abortionists. I've also been quite clear in stating that I view this culture as a manifestation of Babylon, and therefore I don't think Christians should get involved in politics, the military, etc. To denounce the evils of Babylon and desire to see the innocent spared from these evils is in no way inconsistent with my pacifist position. I can believe thoroughly in nonviolence and still rejoice that an SOB like Sandusky is arrested and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Even Babylon gets some things right. We must live in this world, but we are not to be of this world. (Cf St. John 15:19)

The world relies on violence and force, and sometimes there are instances of justice that result from such violence and force; and when these instances of justice occur, I rejoice. The problem is that the violence and force of the world produce much more injustice than justice. And to explain my position once again, let me reiterate that I have never said that using violence or force to rescue the innocent is unjust. I simply said that it is not the most Christian way, it is not the way of Christ. To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon. 


Selam
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« Reply #77 on: June 25, 2012, 07:41:32 PM »

Quote from: Gebre Menfes Kidus
To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon.

Solomon did not cut the baby.

Funny "get out" clause at the end of the first sentence. Why not go all the way and stop after the word 'opinion'? Why weasel out of it?

Does the local district attorney know that you feel this way? There are people serving time for acting on 'thoughts' like that. You could, of course, try to do something to encourage adoption, but that doesn't foster your apparently entertaining fantasy of killing doctors. It sucks when you have to forgive people and find something else to do.

Why don't you care about saving the 'baby' of the doctor's mother?

I could point out that God spared Cain, and Jesus forgave the people who crucified Him, but you probably think God was wrong then too.
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« Reply #78 on: June 25, 2012, 07:53:40 PM »

Quote from: Gebre Menfes Kidus
To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon.

Solomon did not cut the baby.

Funny "get out" clause at the end of the first sentence. Why not go all the way and stop after the word 'opinion'? Why weasel out of it?

Does the local district attorney know that you feel this way? There are people serving time for acting on 'thoughts' like that. You could, of course, try to do something to encourage adoption, but that doesn't foster your apparently entertaining fantasy of killing doctors. It sucks when you have to forgive people and find something else to do.

Why don't you care about saving the 'baby' of the doctor's mother?

I could point out that God spared Cain, and Jesus forgave the people who crucified Him, but you probably think God was wrong then too.


Like I said, some people love to make straw man caricatures of my position. That's easier than actually discussing the issue in a reasonable manner, although it's also quite cowardly. Your slanderous accusations and deliberate misrepresentation of my views does not deserve a response. Honest people on this forum know and understand that I desire the salvation of all people, pedophiles and abortionists included. They may disagree with me about pacifism, but they are honest enough to realize that I mourn the suffering and death of anyone created in God's holy image. So disagree with me all you want, but I would ask you to excercise the integrity not to slander me in such a dishonest manner. Thank you.


Selam
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« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2012, 07:55:06 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Gebre's denial of his own violence is extreme. In his first post in this thread IIRC, his reliance on violence rather blatant.




I know people love to make straw man caricatures of my pacifist position, but that's hardly productive to an honest discussion. I've been quite clear in condemning violence against abortionists. I've also been quite clear in stating that I view this culture as a manifestation of Babylon, and therefore I don't think Christians should get involved in politics, the military, etc. To denounce the evils of Babylon and desire to see the innocent spared from these evils is in no way inconsistent with my pacifist position. I can believe thoroughly in nonviolence and still rejoice that an SOB like Sandusky is arrested and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Even Babylon gets some things right. We must live in this world, but we are not to be of this world. (Cf St. John 15:19)

The world relies on violence and force, and sometimes there are instances of justice that result from such violence and force; and when these instances of justice occur, I rejoice. The problem is that the violence and force of the world produce much more injustice than justice. And to explain my position once again, let me reiterate that I have never said that using violence or force to rescue the innocent is unjust. I simply said that it is not the most Christian way, it is not the way of Christ. To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon. 


Selam

To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion,

Game

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« Reply #80 on: June 25, 2012, 08:06:46 PM »

Quote from: Gebre Menfes Kidus
To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon.

Slander? Who are you kidding?

Read it again. You're the one who wrote it.

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« Reply #81 on: June 25, 2012, 08:12:12 PM »

Holy cow he really wrote that? Smh
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« Reply #82 on: June 25, 2012, 08:39:18 PM »

Quote from: Gebre Menfes Kidus
To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon.

Slander? Who are you kidding?

Read it again. You're the one who wrote it.



Technically it is libel. I should know. I have insurance for it.
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« Reply #83 on: June 25, 2012, 09:04:53 PM »

I see many people here falling back on the legal law to defend immoral behaviors and damaging practices. I would just like to remind you all of Kohlberg's system of ethical development. People who use legal authority to justify their ethical decisions are generally seen as lower on the scale of ethical development whereas people like Gebre Menfes Kidus who make their ethical decisions regardless of whatever the legal authority says are seen as higher in ethical development. Something to think about.
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« Reply #84 on: June 25, 2012, 09:06:46 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.
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« Reply #85 on: June 25, 2012, 09:20:03 PM »

I see many people here falling back on the legal law to defend immoral behaviors and damaging practices. I would just like to remind you all of Kohlberg's system of ethical development. People who use legal authority to justify their ethical decisions are generally seen as lower on the scale of ethical development whereas people like Gebre Menfes Kidus who make their ethical decisions regardless of whatever the legal authority says are seen as higher in ethical development. Something to think about.

We are not talking about decisions that we make.  We are talking about forcing our morals on others because we do not have the sanctity to convert them by our example - and using the force of a secular state to do it because we are too cowardly to do it ourselves. 
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« Reply #86 on: June 25, 2012, 09:21:03 PM »

I can't help it if I agree with him. My mother had me at fifteen; she could have easily aborted me and most people in her situation would have advised her to get an abortion. But she stayed strong and kept me. People who get abortions are quite frankly, lazy, or, at least not as tough and admirable as my mother was. Me and my mother are living proof that abortion is never the answer. I do feel very ill of people who get abortions and those who perform the practice. Would you find it immoral to kill a serial killer to protect a victim? Most likely no, so why would you find an abortionist any different from a serial killer? He makes his career off of deceiving young girls who are a few fries short of a happy meal and killing their offspring.

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.
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« Reply #87 on: June 25, 2012, 09:22:58 PM »

I see many people here falling back on the legal law to defend immoral behaviors and damaging practices. I would just like to remind you all of Kohlberg's system of ethical development. People who use legal authority to justify their ethical decisions are generally seen as lower on the scale of ethical development whereas people like Gebre Menfes Kidus who make their ethical decisions regardless of whatever the legal authority says are seen as higher in ethical development. Something to think about.

We are not talking about decisions that we make.  We are talking about forcing our morals on others because we do not have the sanctity to convert them by our example - and using the force of a secular state to do it because we are too cowardly to do it ourselves. 

What would you say then when the decisions of others affect other people? Bad decisions affect all people. The notion that they affect only you yourself is a postmodern atheistic lie. I think that we have a right to force our morals on people because our morals are the only way to ensure that no one is ever harmed.
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« Reply #88 on: June 25, 2012, 09:23:29 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?



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« Reply #89 on: June 25, 2012, 09:23:55 PM »

It just gets worse and worse.
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« Reply #90 on: June 25, 2012, 09:25:55 PM »

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?

...*raises hand*  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #91 on: June 25, 2012, 09:27:42 PM »

I see many people here falling back on the legal law to defend immoral behaviors and damaging practices. I would just like to remind you all of Kohlberg's system of ethical development. People who use legal authority to justify their ethical decisions are generally seen as lower on the scale of ethical development whereas people like Gebre Menfes Kidus who make their ethical decisions regardless of whatever the legal authority says are seen as higher in ethical development. Something to think about.

We are not talking about decisions that we make.  We are talking about forcing our morals on others because we do not have the sanctity to convert them by our example - and using the force of a secular state to do it because we are too cowardly to do it ourselves. 

Bad decisions affect all people. The notion that they affect only you yourself is a postmodern atheistic lie.

Do yourself a favor and cool it with your post-modern this and that. Wait till you can give a decent account of a term before you use it.

And yes I know you have no idea what you are talking about, because I've read really smart people who actually think about this who are off their rockers.

It just makes you look like a thoughtless demagogue.

Go read Descartes and get a handle on modernity, then we might start to discuss what post-modernity could possibly mean.

See what I am talking about people with the whole teaching Descartes early?
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« Reply #92 on: June 25, 2012, 09:29:40 PM »

So, back to the OP.

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« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2012, 09:29:48 PM »

...Descartes

That senile old fart? His whole philosophy about existence is at the very best questionable.
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« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2012, 09:31:32 PM »

...Descartes

That senile old fart? His whole philosophy about existence is at the very best questionable.

LOL.

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« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2012, 09:33:09 PM »

...Descartes

That senile old fart? His whole philosophy about existence is at the very best questionable.

LOL.



The Buddhists doubt it as well...So I'm not the only one to find error in his reasoning.
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« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2012, 09:33:25 PM »

...Descartes

That senile old fart? His whole philosophy about existence is at the very best questionable.

Did you feel the need to poison his fish heads because he ripped out your eye for being insolent?
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« Reply #97 on: June 25, 2012, 09:34:57 PM »

...Descartes

That senile old fart? His whole philosophy about existence is at the very best questionable.

LOL.



The Buddhists doubt it as well...So I'm not the only one to find error in his reasoning.

FIYA!
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« Reply #98 on: June 25, 2012, 09:35:19 PM »

What happened to this topic? I find myself defending Gebre and attacking others when I did not even read their posts...
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« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2012, 09:37:18 PM »

What happened to this topic? I find myself defending Gebre and attacking others when I did not even read their posts...

You are on fire with the Holy Ghost! It is easier to repent than to relent. Don't stop now.
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« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2012, 09:41:32 PM »

What happened to this topic? I find myself defending Gebre and attacking others when I did not even read their posts...

You are on fire with the Holy Ghost! It is easier to repent than to relent. Don't stop now.

Okay. I repent for being an idiot in this thread. You're one of the only persons here who's posts actually have a serious affect on me.
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« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2012, 10:05:44 PM »

I can't help it if I agree with him. My mother had me at fifteen; she could have easily aborted me and most people in her situation would have advised her to get an abortion. But she stayed strong and kept me. People who get abortions are quite frankly, lazy, or, at least not as tough and admirable as my mother was. Me and my mother are living proof that abortion is never the answer. I do feel very ill of people who get abortions and those who perform the practice. Would you find it immoral to kill a serial killer to protect a victim? Most likely no, so why would you find an abortionist any different from a serial killer? He makes his career off of deceiving young girls who are a few fries short of a happy meal and killing their offspring.

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

Well...In the first place I am against executing anyone. It's just a bit inconsistent to be against abortion and for capital punishment much less shooting someone as they get into their car at home or attending their Church ( both have been done btw)

There is also a logical inconsistency in you statement. If Doctor's who perform abortions are indeed just like serial killers, then the Women who get abortions would need to be prosecuted as well. If you hire a person ( a "Killer") to murder someone and they do it, you are an accessory to murder. If you think it's just fine to even the scales of justice by executing the Doctor ( or at least throwing him in a dungeon), you must therefore hold the Women just as culpable...

Therefore, there is a logical flaw in your whole way of looking at this IMHO.
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« Reply #102 on: June 25, 2012, 10:12:04 PM »

Holy cow he really wrote that? Smh

I can't find any logical reason why he's wrong. We see abortion as murder and killing to defend against murder is not sinful. Yeah that makes me feel like an extremist to say but I can't understand why.
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« Reply #103 on: June 25, 2012, 10:14:22 PM »

Holy cow he really wrote that? Smh

I can't find any logical reason why he's wrong. We see abortion as murder and killing to defend against murder is not sinful. Yeah that makes me feel like an extremist to say but I can't understand why.
You have heard it say an eye for and eye...
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« Reply #104 on: June 25, 2012, 10:15:41 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Gebre's denial of his own violence is extreme. In his first post in this thread IIRC, his reliance on violence rather blatant.




I know people love to make straw man caricatures of my pacifist position, but that's hardly productive to an honest discussion. I've been quite clear in condemning violence against abortionists. I've also been quite clear in stating that I view this culture as a manifestation of Babylon, and therefore I don't think Christians should get involved in politics, the military, etc. To denounce the evils of Babylon and desire to see the innocent spared from these evils is in no way inconsistent with my pacifist position. I can believe thoroughly in nonviolence and still rejoice that an SOB like Sandusky is arrested and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Even Babylon gets some things right. We must live in this world, but we are not to be of this world. (Cf St. John 15:19)

The world relies on violence and force, and sometimes there are instances of justice that result from such violence and force; and when these instances of justice occur, I rejoice. The problem is that the violence and force of the world produce much more injustice than justice. And to explain my position once again, let me reiterate that I have never said that using violence or force to rescue the innocent is unjust. I simply said that it is not the most Christian way, it is not the way of Christ. To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon. 


Selam

To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion,

Game

Set

Match

First, it's quite dishonest to edit my entire sentence in order to build up your straw man. I clearly said in the same sentence that killing an abortionist is not Christian. But that part of my sentence doesn't help the cariacature that some of you wish to create.

But I stand by the first part of my statement nonetheless. I don't think it's sinful to kill anyone who is murdering innocent people. Would you think it sinful of me to shoot someone who was raping your daughter? If you think that would be sinful, then you and I have a very different view of sin my friend. (But I think I already understood that long ago.)


Selam
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« Reply #105 on: June 25, 2012, 10:16:05 PM »

Holy cow he really wrote that? Smh

I can't find any logical reason why he's wrong. We see abortion as murder and killing to defend against murder is not sinful. Yeah that makes me feel like an extremist to say but I can't understand why.
You have heard it say an eye for and eye...
It has more to do with prevention than vengeance.
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« Reply #106 on: June 25, 2012, 10:17:42 PM »

Holy cow he really wrote that? Smh

I can't find any logical reason why he's wrong. We see abortion as murder and killing to defend against murder is not sinful. Yeah that makes me feel like an extremist to say but I can't understand why.

Because of the Commandment against killing.

When the Israelites went to war, it was if God told them to. When they did not, it was because He told them not to. God decides who lives and who dies.

Perhaps Cain deserved to die. Yet God spared him.

I don't know why God does some things and not others. It's not up to me to force His hand, though.
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« Reply #107 on: June 25, 2012, 10:18:52 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Gebre's denial of his own violence is extreme. In his first post in this thread IIRC, his reliance on violence rather blatant.




I know people love to make straw man caricatures of my pacifist position, but that's hardly productive to an honest discussion. I've been quite clear in condemning violence against abortionists. I've also been quite clear in stating that I view this culture as a manifestation of Babylon, and therefore I don't think Christians should get involved in politics, the military, etc. To denounce the evils of Babylon and desire to see the innocent spared from these evils is in no way inconsistent with my pacifist position. I can believe thoroughly in nonviolence and still rejoice that an SOB like Sandusky is arrested and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Even Babylon gets some things right. We must live in this world, but we are not to be of this world. (Cf St. John 15:19)

The world relies on violence and force, and sometimes there are instances of justice that result from such violence and force; and when these instances of justice occur, I rejoice. The problem is that the violence and force of the world produce much more injustice than justice. And to explain my position once again, let me reiterate that I have never said that using violence or force to rescue the innocent is unjust. I simply said that it is not the most Christian way, it is not the way of Christ. To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon. 


Selam

To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion,

Game

Set

Match

First, it's quite dishonest to edit my entire sentence in order to build up your straw man. I clearly said in the same sentence that killing an abortionist is not Christian. But that part of my sentence doesn't help the cariacature that some of you wish to create.

But I stand by the first part of my statement nonetheless. I don't think it's sinful to kill anyone who is murdering innocent people. Would you think it sinful of me to shoot someone who was raping your daughter? If you think that would be sinful, then you and I have a very different view of sin my friend. (But I think I already understood that long ago.)


Selam
So you're not a pacifist anymore?
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« Reply #108 on: June 25, 2012, 10:20:49 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Gebre's denial of his own violence is extreme. In his first post in this thread IIRC, his reliance on violence rather blatant.




I know people love to make straw man caricatures of my pacifist position, but that's hardly productive to an honest discussion. I've been quite clear in condemning violence against abortionists. I've also been quite clear in stating that I view this culture as a manifestation of Babylon, and therefore I don't think Christians should get involved in politics, the military, etc. To denounce the evils of Babylon and desire to see the innocent spared from these evils is in no way inconsistent with my pacifist position. I can believe thoroughly in nonviolence and still rejoice that an SOB like Sandusky is arrested and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Even Babylon gets some things right. We must live in this world, but we are not to be of this world. (Cf St. John 15:19)

The world relies on violence and force, and sometimes there are instances of justice that result from such violence and force; and when these instances of justice occur, I rejoice. The problem is that the violence and force of the world produce much more injustice than justice. And to explain my position once again, let me reiterate that I have never said that using violence or force to rescue the innocent is unjust. I simply said that it is not the most Christian way, it is not the way of Christ. To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon. 


Selam

To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion,

Game

Set

Match

First, it's quite dishonest to edit my entire sentence in order to build up your straw man. I clearly said in the same sentence that killing an abortionist is not Christian. But that part of my sentence doesn't help the cariacature that some of you wish to create.

But I stand by the first part of my statement nonetheless. I don't think it's sinful to kill anyone who is murdering innocent people. Would you think it sinful of me to shoot someone who was raping your daughter? If you think that would be sinful, then you and I have a very different view of sin my friend. (But I think I already understood that long ago.)


Selam

Ummm.. You said it was not sinful. I think it's fine to stop right there. Plus:

But I stand by the first part of my statement nonetheless.

Are we done now?
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« Reply #109 on: June 25, 2012, 10:22:03 PM »

I look forward to further explication of this mysterious wonderful realm of not-sinful/not-Christian.
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« Reply #110 on: June 25, 2012, 10:29:41 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Gebre's denial of his own violence is extreme. In his first post in this thread IIRC, his reliance on violence rather blatant.




I know people love to make straw man caricatures of my pacifist position, but that's hardly productive to an honest discussion. I've been quite clear in condemning violence against abortionists. I've also been quite clear in stating that I view this culture as a manifestation of Babylon, and therefore I don't think Christians should get involved in politics, the military, etc. To denounce the evils of Babylon and desire to see the innocent spared from these evils is in no way inconsistent with my pacifist position. I can believe thoroughly in nonviolence and still rejoice that an SOB like Sandusky is arrested and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Even Babylon gets some things right. We must live in this world, but we are not to be of this world. (Cf St. John 15:19)

The world relies on violence and force, and sometimes there are instances of justice that result from such violence and force; and when these instances of justice occur, I rejoice. The problem is that the violence and force of the world produce much more injustice than justice. And to explain my position once again, let me reiterate that I have never said that using violence or force to rescue the innocent is unjust. I simply said that it is not the most Christian way, it is not the way of Christ. To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon.  


Selam

To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion,

Game

Set

Match

First, it's quite dishonest to edit my entire sentence in order to build up your straw man. I clearly said in the same sentence that killing an abortionist is not Christian. But that part of my sentence doesn't help the cariacature that some of you wish to create.

But I stand by the first part of my statement nonetheless. I don't think it's sinful to kill anyone who is murdering innocent people. Would you think it sinful of me to shoot someone who was raping your daughter? If you think that would be sinful, then you and I have a very different view of sin my friend. (But I think I already understood that long ago.)


Selam
So you're not a pacifist anymore?

Yes brother, I am. If people would only read my posts in their entirety. But I'll explain my position once again (since you are my friend  Smiley). There are many things that I believe are not necessarily sinful but yet are not the most Christ-like course of action. Divorce is one example. It is not sinful to divorce your spouse if they have committed adultery, but I believe the most Christian thing to do is to remain faithful and married to them even though they are unfaithful to you. Not easy, but the call of the Cross is never easy. So this is why I can say that killing a murderer in order to prevent murder is not sinful, but that it is also not the most Christian way. I have condemned killing abortionists in no uncertain terms, and I will continue to do so- not because I think it is necessarily sinful, but because it is not Christian. Unfortunately, I am accused on the one hand of fantasizing about murdering abortionists and on the other hand of advocating that we passively stand by as innocent people are killed. I guess if my position is deliberately mischaracterized by such ridiculous extremes, then there must be some merit to it.


Selam
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« Reply #111 on: June 25, 2012, 10:30:29 PM »

I look forward to further explication of this mysterious wonderful realm of not-sinful/not-Christian.

Explained in the previous post.


Selam
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« Reply #112 on: June 25, 2012, 10:34:09 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Gebre's denial of his own violence is extreme. In his first post in this thread IIRC, his reliance on violence rather blatant.




I know people love to make straw man caricatures of my pacifist position, but that's hardly productive to an honest discussion. I've been quite clear in condemning violence against abortionists. I've also been quite clear in stating that I view this culture as a manifestation of Babylon, and therefore I don't think Christians should get involved in politics, the military, etc. To denounce the evils of Babylon and desire to see the innocent spared from these evils is in no way inconsistent with my pacifist position. I can believe thoroughly in nonviolence and still rejoice that an SOB like Sandusky is arrested and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Even Babylon gets some things right. We must live in this world, but we are not to be of this world. (Cf St. John 15:19)

The world relies on violence and force, and sometimes there are instances of justice that result from such violence and force; and when these instances of justice occur, I rejoice. The problem is that the violence and force of the world produce much more injustice than justice. And to explain my position once again, let me reiterate that I have never said that using violence or force to rescue the innocent is unjust. I simply said that it is not the most Christian way, it is not the way of Christ. To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon. 


Selam

To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion,

Game

Set

Match

First, it's quite dishonest to edit my entire sentence in order to build up your straw man. I clearly said in the same sentence that killing an abortionist is not Christian. But that part of my sentence doesn't help the cariacature that some of you wish to create.

But I stand by the first part of my statement nonetheless. I don't think it's sinful to kill anyone who is murdering innocent people. Would you think it sinful of me to shoot someone who was raping your daughter? If you think that would be sinful, then you and I have a very different view of sin my friend. (But I think I already understood that long ago.)


Selam

Ummm.. You said it was not sinful. I think it's fine to stop right there. Plus:

But I stand by the first part of my statement nonetheless.

Are we done now?

Yes, you and I are done since you're obviously not interested in an honest and productive discussion.


Selam
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« Reply #113 on: June 25, 2012, 10:41:06 PM »


 But this is not a perfect world, so I am quite willing to let the pornographers print their porn as long as I am guaranteed the right to have my Bible.


Perhaps this is where we most profoundly disagree. I will gladly give up my own rights and freedoms to ensure that innocent children are protected. From my limited knowledge of the gospel, it seems that this is what Our Lord would desire for me to do. I'm not interested in preserving an egalitarian utopia where I'm content to tolerate baby killing and pornography as long as I can read my Bible and go to Church.

How do you plan to jail the pornographers without the use of violence?

Gebre's denial of his own violence is extreme. In his first post in this thread IIRC, his reliance on violence rather blatant.




I know people love to make straw man caricatures of my pacifist position, but that's hardly productive to an honest discussion. I've been quite clear in condemning violence against abortionists. I've also been quite clear in stating that I view this culture as a manifestation of Babylon, and therefore I don't think Christians should get involved in politics, the military, etc. To denounce the evils of Babylon and desire to see the innocent spared from these evils is in no way inconsistent with my pacifist position. I can believe thoroughly in nonviolence and still rejoice that an SOB like Sandusky is arrested and sentenced to prison for the rest of his life. Even Babylon gets some things right. We must live in this world, but we are not to be of this world. (Cf St. John 15:19)

The world relies on violence and force, and sometimes there are instances of justice that result from such violence and force; and when these instances of justice occur, I rejoice. The problem is that the violence and force of the world produce much more injustice than justice. And to explain my position once again, let me reiterate that I have never said that using violence or force to rescue the innocent is unjust. I simply said that it is not the most Christian way, it is not the way of Christ. To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon. 


Selam

To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion,

Game

Set

Match

First, it's quite dishonest to edit my entire sentence in order to build up your straw man. I clearly said in the same sentence that killing an abortionist is not Christian. But that part of my sentence doesn't help the cariacature that some of you wish to create.

But I stand by the first part of my statement nonetheless. I don't think it's sinful to kill anyone who is murdering innocent people. Would you think it sinful of me to shoot someone who was raping your daughter? If you think that would be sinful, then you and I have a very different view of sin my friend. (But I think I already understood that long ago.)


Selam

Ummm.. You said it was not sinful. I think it's fine to stop right there. Plus:

But I stand by the first part of my statement nonetheless.

Are we done now?

Yes, you and I are done since you're obviously not interested in an honest and productive discussion.


Selam

Agreed...  Tongue
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« Reply #114 on: June 25, 2012, 11:10:01 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?





I like it best when PtA comes in and winds the cymbal-monkey even further.  That is all kinds of lulz.
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« Reply #115 on: June 26, 2012, 02:24:11 AM »

Quote from: Gebre Menfes Kidus
To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon.

Solomon did not cut the baby.

Funny "get out" clause at the end of the first sentence. Why not go all the way and stop after the word 'opinion'? Why weasel out of it?

Does the local district attorney know that you feel this way? There are people serving time for acting on 'thoughts' like that. You could, of course, try to do something to encourage adoption, but that doesn't foster your apparently entertaining fantasy of killing doctors. It sucks when you have to forgive people and find something else to do.

Why don't you care about saving the 'baby' of the doctor's mother?

I could point out that God spared Cain, and Jesus forgave the people who crucified Him, but you probably think God was wrong then too.


Like I said, some people love to make straw man caricatures of my position. That's easier than actually discussing the issue in a reasonable manner, although it's also quite cowardly. Your slanderous accusations and deliberate misrepresentation of my views does not deserve a response. Honest people on this forum know and understand that I desire the salvation of all people, pedophiles and abortionists included. They may disagree with me about pacifism, but they are honest enough to realize that I mourn the suffering and death of anyone created in God's holy image. So disagree with me all you want, but I would ask you to excercise the integrity not to slander me in such a dishonest manner. Thank you.


Selam

For not deserving a response, Biro sure got a long, empty, tirade.
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« Reply #116 on: June 26, 2012, 11:49:23 AM »

I am sorry, but this thread is wrong on more levels than Sandusky and a young boy riding an elevator.
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« Reply #117 on: June 26, 2012, 03:27:10 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?





I like it best when PtA comes in and winds the cymbal-monkey even further.  That is all kinds of lulz.

Hey, now. I love biro. I really mean I like her stuff. I like her chutzpah. Never would I make such comments about the most inscrutable poster on the internet I have ever encountered.

And I mean in this in a plainly naive and stupidly genuine manner without the need for a [redacted] to express my feelings.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 03:27:32 PM by orthonorm » Logged

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« Reply #118 on: June 26, 2012, 03:51:40 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?





I like it best when PtA comes in and winds the cymbal-monkey even further.  That is all kinds of lulz.

Hey, now. I love biro. I really mean I like her stuff. I like her chutzpah. Never would I make such comments about the most inscrutable poster on the internet I have ever encountered.

And I mean in this in a plainly naive and stupidly genuine manner without the need for a [redacted] to express my feelings.
You are so full of it, orthonorm.
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« Reply #119 on: June 26, 2012, 03:57:02 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?





I like it best when PtA comes in and winds the cymbal-monkey even further.  That is all kinds of lulz.

Hey, now. I love biro. I really mean I like her stuff. I like her chutzpah. Never would I make such comments about the most inscrutable poster on the internet I have ever encountered.

And I mean in this in a plainly naive and stupidly genuine manner without the need for a [redacted] to express my feelings.
You are so full of it, orthonorm.

Full of what? Love? Just because you people can't enjoy a spunk down, doesn't mean I can't.
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« Reply #120 on: June 26, 2012, 04:05:15 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

This is a time for us all to pray, not pass around collective high-fives.

So a criminal is punished? Is that a good thing? Jerry Sandusky is a human being like the rest of us, and while he made a despicable mistake a million times over, we know that his own soul is equally being punished with guilt.  Do we honestly believe that God has no power to confront the most heinously guilty with guilt and remorse and fear of eternal retribution? Murderers, rapists, child molesters, all of these folks sometime vaunt and brag with swagger as if they weren't in anyway remorseful, but this may just be theatrics.  God knows the heart, even of the guilty, if anything especially of them.  Why else would Christ as us to visit those in prison, and further, say when we neglect these we neglect him?

Further, we need to pray for the victims, whose pain will be as eternal as the guilt as those who committed the crime.  The pain is real, and it stings the core of peoples' very being for ages.  Many folks grapple with a lack of Faith in humanity, in God, in themselves, because of these experiences.  They need Grace all the more. 

What also of the community at large? These kinds of crimes wreak havoc in the community, filling it with a blend of shame and doubt, fear and anxiety, guilt and anger. 

In other words, just arresting the bad guy does not solve the problem, if anything it accentuates the complexity of the matter.  We should be in prayer about these issues, constantly, fervently, without ceasing.

If we ever have anything to say, even about guys like Sandusky, it should be "Lord Have His mercy."

What did the Archangel Michael say to Satan himself?  Not a scathing condemnation (which surely Satan deserves/deserved) but rather "May the Lord rebuke you."

Powerful sentiments we should emulate to cool the fears and anger of our own hearts.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #121 on: June 26, 2012, 04:17:45 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?





I like it best when PtA comes in and winds the cymbal-monkey even further.  That is all kinds of lulz.

Hey, now. I love biro. I really mean I like her stuff. I like her chutzpah. Never would I make such comments about the most inscrutable poster on the internet I have ever encountered.

And I mean in this in a plainly naive and stupidly genuine manner without the need for a [redacted] to express my feelings.

Yeah, and I love cymbal-monkeys, as much as one could love a cymbal-monkey.  Why would you take what I wrote as an insult?  Unless of course you have some deep-seated prejudice against cymbal-monkeys?
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« Reply #122 on: June 26, 2012, 04:36:18 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

This is a time for us all to pray, not pass around collective high-fives.

So a criminal is punished? Is that a good thing? Jerry Sandusky is a human being like the rest of us, and while he made a despicable mistake a million times over, we know that his own soul is equally being punished with guilt.  Do we honestly believe that God has no power to confront the most heinously guilty with guilt and remorse and fear of eternal retribution? Murderers, rapists, child molesters, all of these folks sometime vaunt and brag with swagger as if they weren't in anyway remorseful, but this may just be theatrics.  God knows the heart, even of the guilty, if anything especially of them.  Why else would Christ as us to visit those in prison, and further, say when we neglect these we neglect him?

Further, we need to pray for the victims, whose pain will be as eternal as the guilt as those who committed the crime.  The pain is real, and it stings the core of peoples' very being for ages.  Many folks grapple with a lack of Faith in humanity, in God, in themselves, because of these experiences.  They need Grace all the more. 

What also of the community at large? These kinds of crimes wreak havoc in the community, filling it with a blend of shame and doubt, fear and anxiety, guilt and anger. 

In other words, just arresting the bad guy does not solve the problem, if anything it accentuates the complexity of the matter.  We should be in prayer about these issues, constantly, fervently, without ceasing.

If we ever have anything to say, even about guys like Sandusky, it should be "Lord Have His mercy."

What did the Archangel Michael say to Satan himself?  Not a scathing condemnation (which surely Satan deserves/deserved) but rather "May the Lord rebuke you."

Powerful sentiments we should emulate to cool the fears and anger of our own hearts.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

You seem to be saying that Sandusky's guilt, which you have not proved he feels since he professes to be not guilty, is enough. God will deal with him, but human justice cannot be ignored. After all, God instituted that, too. He will be sent to prison primarily so that he does not repeat his crimes. The alternative is to tie a millstone around his neck and throw him into the sea, but I don't see you arguing for that here.
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« Reply #123 on: June 26, 2012, 04:44:55 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?





I like it best when PtA comes in and winds the cymbal-monkey even further.  That is all kinds of lulz.

Hey, now. I love biro. I really mean I like her stuff. I like her chutzpah. Never would I make such comments about the most inscrutable poster on the internet I have ever encountered.

And I mean in this in a plainly naive and stupidly genuine manner without the need for a [redacted] to express my feelings.

Yeah, and I love cymbal-monkeys, as much as one could love a cymbal-monkey.  Why would you take what I wrote as an insult?  Unless of course you have some deep-seated prejudice against cymbal-monkeys?

They are rather frightening frankly. Monkey Shines anyone? Reducing a person a wind up toy just sounded a little insulting, but who am I to judge the hearts of others? (Exactly the right person, that is who.)

I just wanted to be clear, I enjoy her blow ups and the shrapnel they produce. And that biro does confound the hell out of me and that is a good thing.

I'll leave you to your monkey, alpaca, and llama fetishes. Are we still in the pr0n thread?
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« Reply #124 on: June 26, 2012, 04:56:36 PM »


I just wanted to be clear, I enjoy her blow ups and the shrapnel they produce. And that biro does confound the hell out of me and that is a good thing.

 Are we still in the pr0n thread?

It looks like it.  Biro has a blow up?  Does she know this and approve, or did you make one without her knowledge?  This thread confounds me.  I need a drink.
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« Reply #125 on: June 26, 2012, 05:30:19 PM »


I just wanted to be clear, I enjoy her blow ups and the shrapnel they produce. And that biro does confound the hell out of me and that is a good thing.

 Are we still in the pr0n thread?

It looks like it.  Biro has a blow up?  Does she know this and approve, or did you make one without her knowledge?  This thread confounds me.  I need a drink.

Nice. You avatar BTW is endlessly lulz.
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« Reply #126 on: June 26, 2012, 05:58:59 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


You seem to be saying that Sandusky's guilt, which you have not proved he feels since he professes to be not guilty, is enough. God will deal with him, but human justice cannot be ignored. After all, God instituted that, too. He will be sent to prison primarily so that he does not repeat his crimes. The alternative is to tie a millstone around his neck and throw him into the sea, but I don't see you arguing for that here.

If you feel like casting that stone go ahead, but the same guilt will find you in time.  Vengeance is a one-way street, it is all consuming.  I was reading a good novel today, it made this very adept point.

Quote
" If it had not wanted their flesh so badly, he thought, it wouldn't have come after them at such speed, and brought this pain and humiliation upon itself.  There was a lesson there, if he could only remember it. EVIL, HOWEVER POWERFUL IT SEEMED, COULD BE UNDONE BY ITS OWN APPETITE."
The Thief of Always by Clive Barker

The Devil, as Peter warned us, is out like a ravenous lion, seeking to devour who he can by his endless appetite of judgement, hostility, and envy.  The Evil in ourselves is not different.  The Devil wants to drag us all down with him, so we can all be miserable together.  We are tempted by his Evil, indeed by our own evil, out of the same appetite.  Why did Jerry Sandusky do this for so long? In vain attempts to quench his own appetite, and in the end, he himself was consumed, as we all shall be in time.

On a personal  note, I have been all-consumed buy vengeance in my life. I have calculated and choreographed revenge across years of time.  It benefits nothing.  It only feeds the appetite for sin all the more with your own blood.  Evil likes the taste of blood, it could care less whose, guilty or innocent, that of other peoples or our own.

Justice? God is about justice, what can we do that can be rightfully called just, if we are all guilty of the same evils in different guises? To condemn Sandusky is to be just as evil as he is.  I am not saying let Sandusky walk a free man, but lets not forget about God in all our hoopla about punishment this and vendetta that..  God is the head pay-master of all matters.  If God can find it in His own heart to allow even foul and undeserving creatures like Sandusky another moment  of life, perhaps we can learn from this example.  Further, if an appetite for sin brought down Sandusky and hurt so many people, maybe we should carefully mind our own appetites for vengeance.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: June 26, 2012, 05:59:34 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #127 on: June 27, 2012, 01:40:25 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


You seem to be saying that Sandusky's guilt, which you have not proved he feels since he professes to be not guilty, is enough. God will deal with him, but human justice cannot be ignored. After all, God instituted that, too. He will be sent to prison primarily so that he does not repeat his crimes. The alternative is to tie a millstone around his neck and throw him into the sea, but I don't see you arguing for that here.

If you feel like casting that stone go ahead, but the same guilt will find you in time.  Vengeance is a one-way street, it is all consuming.  I was reading a good novel today, it made this very adept point.

Quote
" If it had not wanted their flesh so badly, he thought, it wouldn't have come after them at such speed, and brought this pain and humiliation upon itself.  There was a lesson there, if he could only remember it. EVIL, HOWEVER POWERFUL IT SEEMED, COULD BE UNDONE BY ITS OWN APPETITE."
The Thief of Always by Clive Barker

The Devil, as Peter warned us, is out like a ravenous lion, seeking to devour who he can by his endless appetite of judgement, hostility, and envy.  The Evil in ourselves is not different.  The Devil wants to drag us all down with him, so we can all be miserable together.  We are tempted by his Evil, indeed by our own evil, out of the same appetite.  Why did Jerry Sandusky do this for so long? In vain attempts to quench his own appetite, and in the end, he himself was consumed, as we all shall be in time.

On a personal  note, I have been all-consumed buy vengeance in my life. I have calculated and choreographed revenge across years of time.  It benefits nothing.  It only feeds the appetite for sin all the more with your own blood.  Evil likes the taste of blood, it could care less whose, guilty or innocent, that of other peoples or our own.

Justice? God is about justice, what can we do that can be rightfully called just, if we are all guilty of the same evils in different guises? To condemn Sandusky is to be just as evil as he is.  I am not saying let Sandusky walk a free man, but lets not forget about God in all our hoopla about punishment this and vendetta that..  God is the head pay-master of all matters.  If God can find it in His own heart to allow even foul and undeserving creatures like Sandusky another moment  of life, perhaps we can learn from this example.  Further, if an appetite for sin brought down Sandusky and hurt so many people, maybe we should carefully mind our own appetites for vengeance.

stay blessed,
habte selassie


We should always let God perform the justice.  I say we throw him in a tank of sharks.  God stops the mouths of lions when someone is holy or innocent, but He sends she-bears to rip up disrespectful brats.

I reckon you are right.  We should stop judging people and just let critters do it for us.
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« Reply #128 on: June 27, 2012, 01:43:40 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?





I like it best when PtA comes in and winds the cymbal-monkey even further.  That is all kinds of lulz.

Hey, now. I love biro. I really mean I like her stuff. I like her chutzpah. Never would I make such comments about the most inscrutable poster on the internet I have ever encountered.

And I mean in this in a plainly naive and stupidly genuine manner without the need for a [redacted] to express my feelings.

Yeah, and I love cymbal-monkeys, as much as one could love a cymbal-monkey.  Why would you take what I wrote as an insult?  Unless of course you have some deep-seated prejudice against cymbal-monkeys?

They are rather frightening frankly. Monkey Shines anyone? Reducing a person a wind up toy just sounded a little insulting, but who am I to judge the hearts of others? (Exactly the right person, that is who.)

I just wanted to be clear, I enjoy her blow ups and the shrapnel they produce. And that biro does confound the hell out of me and that is a good thing.

I'll leave you to your monkey, alpaca, and llama fetishes. Are we still in the pr0n thread?

No, this is not the pr0n thread.  If it were I'd tell you what I like to do with real cymbal monkeys in the privacy of my own home. 

As for biro's explosions, they are grating.   Roll Eyes  Except when a skilled troll like Peter comes in and turns them into an artistic masterpiece.  Perhaps you should give it a try sometimes.  Not even I can get as good a reaction PtA does.  Perhaps you could illicit one that would really make me laugh?
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« Reply #129 on: June 27, 2012, 02:16:51 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?





I like it best when PtA comes in and winds the cymbal-monkey even further.  That is all kinds of lulz.

Hey, now. I love biro. I really mean I like her stuff. I like her chutzpah. Never would I make such comments about the most inscrutable poster on the internet I have ever encountered.

And I mean in this in a plainly naive and stupidly genuine manner without the need for a [redacted] to express my feelings.

Yeah, and I love cymbal-monkeys, as much as one could love a cymbal-monkey.  Why would you take what I wrote as an insult?  Unless of course you have some deep-seated prejudice against cymbal-monkeys?

Great idea ! I have a neighbor with a nasty mole on her nose. I think she's a witch. Lets throw her into a lake and see if God allows her to float so we can tell if she is guilty or not.
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« Reply #130 on: June 27, 2012, 02:49:04 PM »

Who is Kolberg? And who cares?

If you feel sorry for Gebre, you're out to lunch, too.

And I thought you couldn't spell win without i and by i, I mean, me.

Who loves it when biro gets wound up?





I like it best when PtA comes in and winds the cymbal-monkey even further.  That is all kinds of lulz.

Hey, now. I love biro. I really mean I like her stuff. I like her chutzpah. Never would I make such comments about the most inscrutable poster on the internet I have ever encountered.

And I mean in this in a plainly naive and stupidly genuine manner without the need for a [redacted] to express my feelings.

Yeah, and I love cymbal-monkeys, as much as one could love a cymbal-monkey.  Why would you take what I wrote as an insult?  Unless of course you have some deep-seated prejudice against cymbal-monkeys?

Great idea ! I have a neighbor with a nasty mole on her nose. I think she's a witch. Lets throw her into a lake and see if God allows her to float so we can tell if she is guilty or not.

I'm not sure if you are arguing against my cymbal monkey comment (in which case I think you are taking this way too far) or the shark one.  But FWIW, I would NEVER in a million years toss some old crone into a lake, especially a non-shark infested lake.  I am talking about convicted chimos and such.

Besides, God helps those who help themselves.  If your neighbor can't swim in a non-shark infested lake then good riddance.
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« Reply #131 on: June 27, 2012, 02:53:28 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


You seem to be saying that Sandusky's guilt, which you have not proved he feels since he professes to be not guilty, is enough. God will deal with him, but human justice cannot be ignored. After all, God instituted that, too. He will be sent to prison primarily so that he does not repeat his crimes. The alternative is to tie a millstone around his neck and throw him into the sea, but I don't see you arguing for that here.

If you feel like casting that stone go ahead, but the same guilt will find you in time.  Vengeance is a one-way street, it is all consuming.  I was reading a good novel today, it made this very adept point.

Quote
" If it had not wanted their flesh so badly, he thought, it wouldn't have come after them at such speed, and brought this pain and humiliation upon itself.  There was a lesson there, if he could only remember it. EVIL, HOWEVER POWERFUL IT SEEMED, COULD BE UNDONE BY ITS OWN APPETITE."
The Thief of Always by Clive Barker

The Devil, as Peter warned us, is out like a ravenous lion, seeking to devour who he can by his endless appetite of judgement, hostility, and envy.  The Evil in ourselves is not different.  The Devil wants to drag us all down with him, so we can all be miserable together.  We are tempted by his Evil, indeed by our own evil, out of the same appetite.  Why did Jerry Sandusky do this for so long? In vain attempts to quench his own appetite, and in the end, he himself was consumed, as we all shall be in time.

On a personal  note, I have been all-consumed buy vengeance in my life. I have calculated and choreographed revenge across years of time.  It benefits nothing.  It only feeds the appetite for sin all the more with your own blood.  Evil likes the taste of blood, it could care less whose, guilty or innocent, that of other peoples or our own.

Justice? God is about justice, what can we do that can be rightfully called just, if we are all guilty of the same evils in different guises? To condemn Sandusky is to be just as evil as he is.  I am not saying let Sandusky walk a free man, but lets not forget about God in all our hoopla about punishment this and vendetta that..  God is the head pay-master of all matters.  If God can find it in His own heart to allow even foul and undeserving creatures like Sandusky another moment  of life, perhaps we can learn from this example.  Further, if an appetite for sin brought down Sandusky and hurt so many people, maybe we should carefully mind our own appetites for vengeance.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Just because someone feels that a perpetrator of a crime should go to prison does not mean he's consumed by vengeance or condemnation. Do you think he should be left alone to commit more crimes against children? Where does the eternal hand-wringing end?
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« Reply #132 on: June 27, 2012, 02:57:21 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Just because someone feels that a perpetrator of a crime should go to prison does not mean he's consumed by vengeance or condemnation. Do you think he should be left alone to commit more crimes against children? Where does the eternal hand-wringing end?

Just punishment is one thing, but maybe you should read this thread again, but I dare say it was devolving to lynch mob mentalities..

Also folks also should be careful not to insert themselves as the intended subject of ANY of my posts unless I drop specific names.  I rarely decide to address any individual opinions here to attack the individuals, more so, I see the vibe and atmosphere of a thread and speak on that.  In that regard, this thread was hectic and needed a bit of coolness on the fire.  It is not personal to anyone here, just about the topic, not necessarily the opinions of any of the specific posters.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 02:59:30 PM by HabteSelassie » Logged

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« Reply #133 on: June 27, 2012, 03:16:04 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!



Just because someone feels that a perpetrator of a crime should go to prison does not mean he's consumed by vengeance or condemnation. Do you think he should be left alone to commit more crimes against children? Where does the eternal hand-wringing end?

Just punishment is one thing, but maybe you should read this thread again, but I dare say it was devolving to lynch mob mentalities..

Also folks also should be careful not to insert themselves as the intended subject of ANY of my posts unless I drop specific names.  I rarely decide to address any individual opinions here to attack the individuals, more so, I see the vibe and atmosphere of a thread and speak on that.  In that regard, this thread was hectic and needed a bit of coolness on the fire.  It is not personal to anyone here, just about the topic, not necessarily the opinions of any of the specific posters.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

The problem is, if you attack the "vibe" of the thread anyone and everyone can feel personally attacked as they have added to the "vibe".
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« Reply #134 on: June 27, 2012, 03:20:30 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




Just because someone feels that a perpetrator of a crime should go to prison does not mean he's consumed by vengeance or condemnation. Do you think he should be left alone to commit more crimes against children? Where does the eternal hand-wringing end?

Just punishment is one thing, but maybe you should read this thread again, but I dare say it was devolving to lynch mob mentalities..

Also folks also should be careful not to insert themselves as the intended subject of ANY of my posts unless I drop specific names.  I rarely decide to address any individual opinions here to attack the individuals, more so, I see the vibe and atmosphere of a thread and speak on that.  In that regard, this thread was hectic and needed a bit of coolness on the fire.  It is not personal to anyone here, just about the topic, not necessarily the opinions of any of the specific posters.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

The problem is, if you attack the "vibe" of the thread anyone and everyone can feel personally attacked as they have added to the "vibe".

Hence the disclosure.  Also, perhaps "attack" is not my best choice of words, do my two responses on this thread really come across as hostile or attacking? I hope not, if so I need to edit, because that was not my intentions.  I did want to "attack" the fire-and-brimstone that was getting caustically tossed around back and forth on this thread, and I wanted to drive home a point of love.  So if I failed, I apologize, and if anyone here feels personally attacked, I apologize for that too.

stay blessed,
habte selassie
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« Reply #135 on: June 27, 2012, 04:47:56 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




Just because someone feels that a perpetrator of a crime should go to prison does not mean he's consumed by vengeance or condemnation. Do you think he should be left alone to commit more crimes against children? Where does the eternal hand-wringing end?

Just punishment is one thing, but maybe you should read this thread again, but I dare say it was devolving to lynch mob mentalities..

Also folks also should be careful not to insert themselves as the intended subject of ANY of my posts unless I drop specific names.  I rarely decide to address any individual opinions here to attack the individuals, more so, I see the vibe and atmosphere of a thread and speak on that.  In that regard, this thread was hectic and needed a bit of coolness on the fire.  It is not personal to anyone here, just about the topic, not necessarily the opinions of any of the specific posters.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

The problem is, if you attack the "vibe" of the thread anyone and everyone can feel personally attacked as they have added to the "vibe".

Hence the disclosure.  Also, perhaps "attack" is not my best choice of words, do my two responses on this thread really come across as hostile or attacking? I hope not, if so I need to edit, because that was not my intentions.  I did want to "attack" the fire-and-brimstone that was getting caustically tossed around back and forth on this thread, and I wanted to drive home a point of love.  So if I failed, I apologize, and if anyone here feels personally attacked, I apologize for that too.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess this kind of cuts to the quick of the matter.  Is it even a good thing to try and tamper down some fire-and-brimstone?  Shouldn't it be somewhat reassuring that some people still get angered about kids getting buggered?  Shouldn't it be comforting to know that instances like these will illicit natural human emotions?  These emotions we have, hatred for those who destroy lives is one of the things that has made human society successful.  If no one cares when something rotten happens, or just brush it off and respond with 'love' all it does is create a climate where these acts will continue to be perpetrated.  There will always be bad actors and good actors in society.  The thing we want to do is make the consequences for bad actors so frightful that the less bad of the bunch will weigh the consequences vs the benefits of feeding their pleasures.  Of course there will be those who are so lost that not even the threat of extreme violence will keep them from engaging in their baser desires.  These people will do more good in death, serving as an example for the more easily swayed than they would being 'rehabilitated'.
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akimori makoto
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No-one bound by fleshly pleasures is worthy ...


« Reply #136 on: June 27, 2012, 07:49:01 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!




Just because someone feels that a perpetrator of a crime should go to prison does not mean he's consumed by vengeance or condemnation. Do you think he should be left alone to commit more crimes against children? Where does the eternal hand-wringing end?

Just punishment is one thing, but maybe you should read this thread again, but I dare say it was devolving to lynch mob mentalities..

Also folks also should be careful not to insert themselves as the intended subject of ANY of my posts unless I drop specific names.  I rarely decide to address any individual opinions here to attack the individuals, more so, I see the vibe and atmosphere of a thread and speak on that.  In that regard, this thread was hectic and needed a bit of coolness on the fire.  It is not personal to anyone here, just about the topic, not necessarily the opinions of any of the specific posters.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

The problem is, if you attack the "vibe" of the thread anyone and everyone can feel personally attacked as they have added to the "vibe".

Hence the disclosure.  Also, perhaps "attack" is not my best choice of words, do my two responses on this thread really come across as hostile or attacking? I hope not, if so I need to edit, because that was not my intentions.  I did want to "attack" the fire-and-brimstone that was getting caustically tossed around back and forth on this thread, and I wanted to drive home a point of love.  So if I failed, I apologize, and if anyone here feels personally attacked, I apologize for that too.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

I guess this kind of cuts to the quick of the matter.  Is it even a good thing to try and tamper down some fire-and-brimstone?  Shouldn't it be somewhat reassuring that some people still get angered about kids getting buggered?  Shouldn't it be comforting to know that instances like these will illicit natural human emotions?  These emotions we have, hatred for those who destroy lives is one of the things that has made human society successful.  If no one cares when something rotten happens, or just brush it off and respond with 'love' all it does is create a climate where these acts will continue to be perpetrated.  There will always be bad actors and good actors in society.  The thing we want to do is make the consequences for bad actors so frightful that the less bad of the bunch will weigh the consequences vs the benefits of feeding their pleasures.  Of course there will be those who are so lost that not even the threat of extreme violence will keep them from engaging in their baser desires.  These people will do more good in death, serving as an example for the more easily swayed than they would being 'rehabilitated'.

Yes, hence the criminal justice system. If only more of our judges would understand what it is there for.
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The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
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« Reply #137 on: June 27, 2012, 07:49:45 PM »

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!


You seem to be saying that Sandusky's guilt, which you have not proved he feels since he professes to be not guilty, is enough. God will deal with him, but human justice cannot be ignored. After all, God instituted that, too. He will be sent to prison primarily so that he does not repeat his crimes. The alternative is to tie a millstone around his neck and throw him into the sea, but I don't see you arguing for that here.

If you feel like casting that stone go ahead, but the same guilt will find you in time.  Vengeance is a one-way street, it is all consuming.  I was reading a good novel today, it made this very adept point.

Quote
" If it had not wanted their flesh so badly, he thought, it wouldn't have come after them at such speed, and brought this pain and humiliation upon itself.  There was a lesson there, if he could only remember it. EVIL, HOWEVER POWERFUL IT SEEMED, COULD BE UNDONE BY ITS OWN APPETITE."
The Thief of Always by Clive Barker

The Devil, as Peter warned us, is out like a ravenous lion, seeking to devour who he can by his endless appetite of judgement, hostility, and envy.  The Evil in ourselves is not different.  The Devil wants to drag us all down with him, so we can all be miserable together.  We are tempted by his Evil, indeed by our own evil, out of the same appetite.  Why did Jerry Sandusky do this for so long? In vain attempts to quench his own appetite, and in the end, he himself was consumed, as we all shall be in time.

On a personal  note, I have been all-consumed buy vengeance in my life. I have calculated and choreographed revenge across years of time.  It benefits nothing.  It only feeds the appetite for sin all the more with your own blood.  Evil likes the taste of blood, it could care less whose, guilty or innocent, that of other peoples or our own.

Justice? God is about justice, what can we do that can be rightfully called just, if we are all guilty of the same evils in different guises? To condemn Sandusky is to be just as evil as he is.  I am not saying let Sandusky walk a free man, but lets not forget about God in all our hoopla about punishment this and vendetta that..  God is the head pay-master of all matters.  If God can find it in His own heart to allow even foul and undeserving creatures like Sandusky another moment  of life, perhaps we can learn from this example.  Further, if an appetite for sin brought down Sandusky and hurt so many people, maybe we should carefully mind our own appetites for vengeance.

stay blessed,
habte selassie

Just because someone feels that a perpetrator of a crime should go to prison does not mean he's consumed by vengeance or condemnation. Do you think he should be left alone to commit more crimes against children? Where does the eternal hand-wringing end?

Thank you.
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The Episcopallian road is easy and wide, for many go through it to find destruction. lol sorry channeling Isa.
Gebre Menfes Kidus
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« Reply #138 on: June 27, 2012, 11:34:43 PM »

Quote from: Gebre Menfes Kidus
To kill an abortionist in order to save unborn babies is not sinful in my opinion, but it is not Christian either. King Solomon's sword was not unjust, but we are called to follow Christ not Solomon.

Solomon did not cut the baby.

Funny "get out" clause at the end of the first sentence. Why not go all the way and stop after the word 'opinion'? Why weasel out of it?

Does the local district attorney know that you feel this way? There are people serving time for acting on 'thoughts' like that. You could, of course, try to do something to encourage adoption, but that doesn't foster your apparently entertaining fantasy of killing doctors. It sucks when you have to forgive people and find something else to do.

Why don't you care about saving the 'baby' of the doctor's mother?

I could point out that God spared Cain, and Jesus forgave the people who crucified Him, but you probably think God was wrong then too.


Like I said, some people love to make straw man caricatures of my position. That's easier than actually discussing the issue in a reasonable manner, although it's also quite cowardly. Your slanderous accusations and deliberate misrepresentation of my views does not deserve a response. Honest people on this forum know and understand that I desire the salvation of all people, pedophiles and abortionists included. They may disagree with me about pacifism, but they are honest enough to realize that I mourn the suffering and death of anyone created in God's holy image. So disagree with me all you want, but I would ask you to excercise the integrity not to slander me in such a dishonest manner. Thank you.


Selam

For not deserving a response, Biro sure got a long, empty, tirade.


It wouldn't be Christian of me to only give Biro what they deserve now would it? Wink



Selam
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"If you stop to throw stones at every dog that barks at you along the way, you will never reach your goal." [Turkish Proverb]
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« Reply #139 on: June 25, 2014, 06:02:34 PM »

Pennsylvania Attorney General emails called 'gold mines' for defendants

Millions of deleted emails recovered during Attorney General Kathleen Kane's review of the Jerry Sandusky investigation may become a “potential gold mine of favorable and discoverable evidence” that could be a “game-changer” for criminal defendants, a prominent Philadelphia lawyer said on Tuesday...
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Capt. Frank Chapman: "You're some guy, Makonnen."
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