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Author Topic: Iraqi government declares Christmas a 'national holiday'  (Read 800 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: December 25, 2013, 12:16:42 PM »

Quote
» 12/23/2013 13:16
IRAQ
Iraqi government declares Christmas a 'national holiday'
by Joseph Mahmoud
In his recent address to the authorities, the Chaldean Patriarch had asked for an official recognition of the holy day. Mar Sako said that "Jesus did not come just for Christians, but for everyone"; he also emphasises the "special respect" Muslims have for Jesus. The recognition is a new and important step for a long-persecuted minority.



http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Iraqi-government-declares-Christmas-a-'national-holiday'-29882.html

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« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2013, 12:32:44 PM »

OK, but why?
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« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2013, 01:16:16 PM »

OK, but why?

Because Christians and Christianity is part of Iraqi history and culture?
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« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2013, 01:39:59 PM »

OK, but why?

Because Christians and Christianity is part of Iraqi history and culture?

And how many Christians are there? 3%?
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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2013, 01:43:58 PM »

OK, but why?

As the article says, the gesture is a:

Quote
show of "solidarity", the decision sends a signal meant to curb an exodus that has decimated the Christian community in the past ten years.

God strengthen the indigenous Christians of Iraq who have been suffering non-stop for the past decade.  Since the disastrous and regrettable invasion of 2003, their numbers have dropped from 1.5 million to below 300,000.  I hope the exodus is curbed and Christianity doesn't die out in the land of St. Isaac of Nineveh and the Apostles Ss. Thaddeus and Thomas (may their blessings and prayers be with Iraq's Christians).
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« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2013, 01:57:22 PM »

So they make a gesture of solidarity with Christians that already left Iraq and that gesture may provoke Muslims against those few Christians that left. This makes sense NOT.
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« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2013, 02:08:22 PM »

So they make a gesture of solidarity with Christians that already left Iraq and that gesture may provoke Muslims against those few Christians that left. This makes sense NOT.

If the world were to shy away from everything that may provoke Muslims to violence, we would not allowed to do anything.

And I would think that the Iraqi government includes not a few Muslims, so maybe this is a sign of a softening attitude. An Iraq without Christians would be a nightmare, and it is a good sign that those in power are apparently beginning to realize that. We cannot undo what has already been done, but we can take what few bright signs there are as reason to hope that maybe everything won't always be as bad as it currently is.
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2013, 02:13:02 PM »

OK, but why?

Because Christians and Christianity is part of Iraqi history and culture?

And how many Christians are there? 3%?

Numbers don't tell everything. That's just about how much Swedish-speaking Finns and Orthodox Christians we have here but we are still a bilingual country with two state churches.
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« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2013, 02:18:26 PM »

So they make a gesture of solidarity with Christians that already left Iraq and that gesture may provoke Muslims against those few Christians that left.

The gesture works on two levels: for those Christians who remain in the country, it indicates that they are valued members of the society and a part of the fabric of the nation.  For those who have emigrated abroad - many of whom surely miss their homeland and feel like strangers in Europe, the US and elsewhere - it is a signal that things have changed, you can come home (and bring your wealth and skill set with you), rejoin the nation, and help to rebuild.

Will it provoke radical Islamists?  Perhaps.  What doesn't?  But remember, it was the Chaldean Patriarch who requested that Christmas be recognized as a national holiday.  The government merely approved.  I think His Beatitude knows better than you or I the needs of his flock and the relative dangers of such a proposal.

This makes sense NOT.

They still do that in Poland?!?  laugh  Were you listening to Whoomp! (There It Is) or watching one of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movies as you typed that?
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« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2013, 02:25:41 PM »

BTW, the Iraqi government is mostly Shia, Shias too are suffering from the terrorist attacks (eventhough no one gives a damn about them), and it was mostly Sunni extremists who persecuted the Christians in Iraq.
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« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2013, 03:57:03 PM »

So they make a gesture of solidarity with Christians that already left Iraq and that gesture may provoke Muslims against those few Christians that left. This makes sense NOT.

Watching a little Wayne's World I see.  Using NOT is hardly a persuasive argument.
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« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 01:03:28 PM »

So they make a gesture of solidarity with Christians that already left Iraq and that gesture may provoke Muslims against those few Christians that left. This makes sense NOT.

Heaven forbid that Christianity have a place where it doesn't belong.  It's not like the religion began there or anything.  Keep the Middle East for Muslims!  Oppose Westernisation! 
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« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2013, 01:15:50 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?
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« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2013, 01:17:50 PM »

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« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2013, 01:26:13 PM »

So they make a gesture of solidarity with Christians that already left Iraq and that gesture may provoke Muslims against those few Christians that left. This makes sense NOT.

Heaven forbid that Christianity have a place where it doesn't belong.  It's not like the religion began there or anything.  Keep the Middle East for Muslims!  Oppose Westernisation! 

Or maybe it's impossible for Muslims to show compassion to Christians because Christians are getting killed by Muslims, regardless of the fact that Maliki and al-Qaeda don't belong to the same sect.
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« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2013, 03:09:46 PM »



Nice :-), but not a federal holiday. I do wish some were though! In my favorite childhood country we got old style Orthodox, Muslim, national/secular, and Western holidays off thanks to the ethnic mix of the country and going to a British school - so many days off, so great :-D.
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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2013, 03:14:38 PM »

So they make a gesture of solidarity with Christians that already left Iraq and that gesture may provoke Muslims against those few Christians that left. This makes sense NOT.

Heaven forbid that Christianity have a place where it doesn't belong.  It's not like the religion began there or anything.  Keep the Middle East for Muslims!  Oppose Westernisation! 

Or maybe it's impossible for Muslims to show compassion to Christians because Christians are getting killed by Muslims, regardless of the fact that Maliki and al-Qaeda don't belong to the same sect.
Not saying that it is right, but it is difficult to know which Muslims are radicalized and which are not.  It is much like Islamic countries blaming all Christians for the crusades despite the fact that the Orthodox suffered under them as well as Muslims. Most Americans see no difference between Saudi Arabia and Iran and Morocco.  To much of the west, it is all the same thing.
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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2013, 03:14:54 PM »



Nice :-), but not a federal holiday. I do wish some were though! In my favorite childhood country we got old style Orthodox, Muslim, national/secular, and Western holidays off thanks to the ethnic mix of the country and going to a British school - so many days off, so great :-D.

Imagine the uproar and the outrage it would cause to have a Muslim holiday declared as a national holiday in America, including from people on here...
More luck having Jewish holidays maybe even Buddhist receiving official statute than Muslim ones.
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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2013, 03:15:03 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2013, 03:21:01 PM »

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

Exactly.  There have been Christians in what is now Iraq since before there was such a thing as Islam.  These folks aren't Western or immigrants.
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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2013, 03:37:10 PM »



Nice :-), but not a federal holiday. I do wish some were though! In my favorite childhood country we got old style Orthodox, Muslim, national/secular, and Western holidays off thanks to the ethnic mix of the country and going to a British school - so many days off, so great :-D.

Imagine the uproar and the outrage it would cause to have a Muslim holiday declared as a national holiday in America, including from people on here...
More luck having Jewish holidays maybe even Buddhist receiving official statute than Muslim ones.

Religion is not to be treated like the "free market" that is doing America so much good. Not all religions are equal or to be treated equally (their practitioners are, in theory). Many people in America, and on this message board (including non-Americans), do not feel that your religion can peacefully coexist as merely one of many minority faiths, as Buddhists and others arguably do. Events like the bombings yesterday in Iraq (and the ones tomorrow and the day after that and the day after that in Iraq, Egypt, Nigeria, and anywhere else Christians have the misfortune of living in Islamically-occupied lands) strengthen this feeling that Islam simply cannot play nice with other faiths, and if it can't do that in places where it's 90+% of a society, then frankly why should anyone support the legitimization of Islam in American society? It doesn't make sense.

And, yes, before somebody else goes there, the same can be said about various kinds of Christianity (we don't always play nice with each other). The difference being that, generally speaking, in America you do not see Evangelical Protestants planting bombs in neighborhoods occupied by minority Catholics in order to drive Catholics out of the country forever.
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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2013, 03:51:44 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.
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« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2013, 03:54:28 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Can I accuse an Eastern Europan of Western ignorance? Maybe some Iraqis actually thought that oppression of Christians is wrong and that their faith must be respected. Tolerance is not only a Western virtue.
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« Reply #23 on: December 26, 2013, 03:57:12 PM »

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

I  don't agree.  The proposal was made by an indigenous Christian bishop and merely accepted by the government.  If anything, I think it is an overture to those Christians who have emigrated abroad but who miss their homeland and wish to return home that they should consider doing so.  I know some Iraqi Christians who now live in the US but who dream of returning home.  I think that this is partially to reach people like them and also to convince those Christians who still live in the country not to leave.  When a Middle Eastern country loses its indigenous Christians, it loses a lot.
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« Reply #24 on: December 26, 2013, 04:02:37 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Can I accuse an Eastern Europan of Western ignorance? Maybe some Iraqis actually thought that oppression of Christians is wrong and that their faith must be respected. Tolerance is not only a Western virtue.

Call me an ignorant but aren't EOs in the USA tolerated since eg. Easter is not a national holiday?
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« Reply #25 on: December 26, 2013, 04:36:37 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Can I accuse an Eastern Europan of Western ignorance? Maybe some Iraqis actually thought that oppression of Christians is wrong and that their faith must be respected. Tolerance is not only a Western virtue.

Call me an ignorant but aren't EOs in the USA tolerated since eg. Easter is not a national holiday?

Freedom of religion is historical charasterictic of USA whereas in Iraq it's pretty much something never heard of. I'm all for instituting religious feasts as national holidays if it helps to spread freedom of religion.
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« Reply #26 on: December 26, 2013, 04:51:15 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Can I accuse an Eastern Europan of Western ignorance? Maybe some Iraqis actually thought that oppression of Christians is wrong and that their faith must be respected. Tolerance is not only a Western virtue.

Call me an ignorant but aren't EOs in the USA tolerated since eg. Easter is not a national holiday?
It is not a federal holiday, but 13 states have made Good/Holy Friday a state holiday since Easter always falls on a Sunday and everyone would be off work anyway.

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« Reply #27 on: December 26, 2013, 06:01:16 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Can I accuse an Eastern Europan of Western ignorance? Maybe some Iraqis actually thought that oppression of Christians is wrong and that their faith must be respected. Tolerance is not only a Western virtue.

Call me an ignorant but aren't EOs in the USA tolerated since eg. Easter is not a national holiday?
It is not a federal holiday, but 13 states have made Good/Holy Friday a state holiday since Easter always falls on a Sunday and everyone would be off work anyway.



Orthodox? Neat.
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« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2013, 06:09:41 PM »

Incidentally, I was reading this just this morning. A very interesting read that explains concisely why the eradication of Christianity in the Middle East would be Bad News for the rest of the world.
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« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2013, 06:23:22 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Can I accuse an Eastern Europan of Western ignorance? Maybe some Iraqis actually thought that oppression of Christians is wrong and that their faith must be respected. Tolerance is not only a Western virtue.

Call me an ignorant but aren't EOs in the USA tolerated since eg. Easter is not a national holiday?
It is not a federal holiday, but 13 states have made Good/Holy Friday a state holiday since Easter always falls on a Sunday and everyone would be off work anyway.



Orthodox? Neat.
Every few years, anyway. I meant generic western Easter/Holy Friday
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« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2013, 09:08:50 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Yeah, because those 300,000 Christians over there whose families have been there for a millennia would certainly see it as such a void and worthless gesture.  Since when do you speak for the Iraqi Christians?  Is that also integrated into your "moderator" status?
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« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2013, 09:31:56 PM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Yeah, because those 300,000 Christians over there whose families have been there for a millennia would certainly see it as such a void and worthless gesture.  Since when do you speak for the Iraqi Christians?  Is that also integrated into your "moderator" status?

Who are you even discussing this with, Scamandrius? The 300,000 Christians in Iraq don't count for anything, so certainly the 47,000 Belarusians in Poland must be basically invisible. Clearly Michal is a phantom and any conversation you have with him is just like arguing into a void.

Maybe ghost moderators have the power to speak for other people...and whole governments, too...
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« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2013, 11:59:33 PM »

OK, but why?

Because bombings happen on holidays there.
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« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2013, 12:05:37 AM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Western countries don't care. It's for Iraqi Christians. Quit being obtuse.
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« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2013, 12:07:54 AM »

How many Muslim feasts are naional holidays in the US, or Finland?

Bad analogy. There is a certain difference with minority and traditional minority.

The difference is than eg. in Finland they are Muslims that might may use it. In Iraq it's just a void gesture that has no practical consequences and it's only done to appease western countries.

Can I accuse an Eastern Europan of Western ignorance? Maybe some Iraqis actually thought that oppression of Christians is wrong and that their faith must be respected. Tolerance is not only a Western virtue.

Call me an ignorant but aren't EOs in the USA tolerated since eg. Easter is not a national holiday?

Easter always falls on a Sunday. National holidays in the USA, in general, are days off from work for federal employees, schools, banks, and some others. Federal offices and schools aren't open on Sundays.
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« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2013, 11:12:28 AM »

Glory be to God! I'm aware this gesture took place to late, I mean when so few Christians stayed in, but, anyway, it's a clear sign that at least some of Iraq's authorities consider Christians as truly part of the nation and its culture, that's it's older than islamic Iraq. And of course, it has also practical advantages for the Christians who still be present in the country.
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