Author Topic: Petitions after Great Entrance  (Read 1388 times)

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Offline RaphaCam

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Petitions after Great Entrance
« on: June 26, 2016, 01:27:05 PM »
Is it normal to have some six or seven petitions starting with "may the Lord our God remember...", maybe more, right after Great Entrance? This is how the liturgical books of the Polish Exarchate to Brazil indicate it and how we do it. I've been browsing through many texts in many languages and usually there is only one: "...all of you", "...all Orthodox Christians", or something like that, some other texts indicating the deacon adding "...your presbyterate" to the presbyter and the presbyter adding "...your deaconate" to the deacon. We, however, also add "...the honorable order of presbyters, deacons, etc.", "...His Beatitude Sawa, etc.", "his Holy Catholic Apostolic Church...", among other petitions, none of which I've found in other texts. I asked this to almost every clergyman there and no one could answer. One of them suspected it might even be some kind of innovation. Is it? Maybe it's some particularity from the PAOC, ROCOR or the Florinites? Our diocese has this mixed heritage, I guess.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 01:34:02 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2016, 02:07:40 PM »
"Slavs" are more likely to do this than "Greeks".  Strictly speaking, it is not required since (IIRC) it's not in the rubrics, but it is not wrong. 
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2016, 02:11:00 PM »
This EC text in Polish seems to indicate more petitions in "Procesja", not sure, Dominika may confirm: http://unici.pl/content/view/115.html
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 02:35:07 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Dominika

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2016, 02:35:39 PM »
This EC text in Polish seems to indicate more processions in "Procesja", not sure, Dominika may confirm: http://unici.pl/content/view/115.html
First of all, the link is Greek Catholic, it indicates the name of the website ("unici") and in the petition mentioning of the pope of Rome ;)
Secondly, I suppose you meant "more petitions" instead of "processions".
Anyway, as it's Greek Catholic text, it doesn't represent Polish Orthodox practice. And the Polish Orthodox practice regarding the petitions after the Great Entrance varies not even from parish to parish, but from priest to priest (even at the same parish) and on the certain occassion (the same priest may say more or less petitions, and say them in different manner, order etc.). I know that Antiochians (at least what I've heard being on Liturgy in USA and watching Liturgies from Lebanon and Syria) now add special petition for abducted metropolitans of Aleppo.

Generally speaking, and not only about Polish tradition, it varies very much, the same as it's with ektenia after the Gospel (to which it's allowed to add special petitions).
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2016, 02:48:04 PM »
Yes, I meant EC as in Eastern Catholics and petitions instead of processions. :P Thanks for the response!
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Dominika

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2016, 04:18:33 PM »
Yes, I meant EC as in Eastern Catholics and petitions instead of processions. :P Thanks for the response!
I didn't know what by EC you'd meant :P

Anyway, I wrote about different practices regarding your question, but even in the Orthodox texts of the Liturgy of st. John in Polish there are some difference:
Liturgy before the WW2(ahh, those beautiful timese, that famous Pochayev monastery was under Polish jurisdiction, and Polish metropolitan was its igumen); pages 4-5

a modern translation; pages 11-12

Anyway, I'm sure there is one more Polish version, maybe even 2 more ;)
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2016, 05:59:36 PM »
Also, still on my topic, have any of you heard a petition which is more or less: "May the Lord our God remember in his kingdom all his Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which announces the word of truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the holy oblation, despite human defficiencies and the persecutions moved by the powers of this world, forever and unto the ages of ages." It's one of my favourite liturgical texts of all and I'd like to find it in other languages, although it seems to be a particularity...
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Dominika

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2016, 06:03:32 PM »
Also, still on my topic, have any of you heard a petition which is more or less: "May the Lord our God remember in his kingdom all his Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which announces the word of truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the holy oblation, despite human defficiencies and the persecutions moved by the powers of this world, forever and unto the ages of ages." It's one of my favourite liturgical texts of all and I'd like to find it in other languages, although it seems to be a particularity...
No. In any country/jurisditction/parish I've been at Divine Liturgy.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2016, 06:38:11 PM »
Also, still on my topic, have any of you heard a petition which is more or less: "May the Lord our God remember in his kingdom all his Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which announces the word of truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the holy oblation, despite human defficiencies and the persecutions moved by the powers of this world, forever and unto the ages of ages." It's one of my favourite liturgical texts of all and I'd like to find it in other languages, although it seems to be a particularity...

It's probably a peculiarity of that celebrant.  A drive-by homily, so to speak. 
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2016, 06:54:45 PM »
If Dominika never heard it, it probably is. Maybe something chosen by HER Chrysostom himself, maybe some practice installed by Portugal. I'll ask him, I'm usually shy at him but now I'm more curious than I'm shy. BTW, I talked to the one who said it might be innovation after making this thread and he said he thought it was innovative not because it was petitioned, but because it was added to the books.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline RandomGalOnTheNet

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2016, 11:08:11 PM »
I'm not sure when the Great Entrance happens, but my priest says these petitions several times during the course of the liturgy.  I sometimes think that in some form or another, usually very specifically, every.single.person in this world and the next has been prayed for by the time the service is over :)

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 11:56:05 PM »
Maybe you're thinking about the litanies.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline RandomGalOnTheNet

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2016, 12:57:02 AM »
Ok, I looked up the Great Entrance and I'm right.  These petitions are totally different than the "Let us pray to the Lord..." ones earlier in the service.
Although you are right in that he doesn't do them at any other point in the liturgy so I was just lumping them all together confusingly.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2016, 12:18:04 PM »
My priest asked HE Chrisóstomo about it today. It seems we acquired these additional petitions when we compatibilised our texts with a certain Russian typikon.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2017, 12:52:03 AM »
So, this ROCOR bilingual version also adds some petitions, although less than we do. I'll translate ours just for the record:
  • Priest: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom [His Beatitude Sava, Orthodox Metropolitan of Warsaw and All Poland], our God-loved Father in faith, and [His Excellency the Most Reverend Chrysostom, Orthodox Archbishop of Rio de Janeiro and Olinda-Recife], and [His Excellency the Most Reverend Ambrose, Orthodox Bishop of Recife, now and ever and unto the ages of ages].
  • Bishop: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom [His Beatitude Sava, Orthodox Metropolitan of Warsaw and All Poland], our God-loved Father in faith, in all time and unto the ages of ages.
  • Priest: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom our fatherland and her rulers, now and ever and unto the ages of ages.
  • Bishop: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages.
  • Bishop: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom the [Holy Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Poland], in all time and unto the ages of ages.
  • Bishop: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom the founders and benefactors of this holy temple, much specially you all, Orthodox faithful and monks here united, in all time and unto the ages of ages.
  • People: Amen. May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom thy episcopacy, in all time, now and ever and unto the ages of ages. Amen.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 12:55:34 AM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2017, 03:21:33 PM »
The Ruthenian Recension(Rusyn, Slovak, Hungarian, Croatian, & Ukrainian Catholics):

Deacon: May the Lord God remember in His kingdom all you Christians of the true faith
always, now and ever, forever.
 
Priest: May the Lord God remember in His kingdom,
our holy father N., Pope of Rome,
our most reverend Archbishop and Metropolitan N.,
our God‐loving Bishop N.,
the entire priestly, diaconal, and monastic order,
our civil authorities and all our armed forces,
the noble and ever‐memorable founders and benefactors of this holy church,
and all you Christians of the true faith
always, now and ever, and forever.

The Melkite Recension:

Deacon: May the Lord God remember us all in His kingdom at all times, now and always and forever and ever.

Priest: May the Lord God remember us all in His kingdom at all times, now and always and forever and ever.

The Vulgate Recension(Russian & Belarusan Catholics)
Is on the website you posted.

 
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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2017, 02:55:31 AM »
There's a retired priest that celebrates the liturgy once in a while.  His petitions last at minimum 5 minutes, because he commemorates family members, then people with birthdays/namedays for the month, then all the dead he is remembering for the month.  He's been a priest 50+ years, so he has quite a few names.
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Offline Daniel2:47

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2017, 07:20:14 AM »
I have attended liturgies in one church in the Greek Archdiocese of Thyateira and Great Britain where this happens. The parish is more Russian in its style, however.

Offline eddybear

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2017, 07:31:34 PM »
So, this ROCOR bilingual version also adds some petitions, although less than we do. I'll translate ours just for the record:
  • Priest: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom [His Beatitude Sava, Orthodox Metropolitan of Warsaw and All Poland], our God-loved Father in faith, and [His Excellency the Most Reverend Chrysostom, Orthodox Archbishop of Rio de Janeiro and Olinda-Recife], and [His Excellency the Most Reverend Ambrose, Orthodox Bishop of Recife, now and ever and unto the ages of ages].
  • Bishop: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom [His Beatitude Sava, Orthodox Metropolitan of Warsaw and All Poland], our God-loved Father in faith, in all time and unto the ages of ages.
  • Priest: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom our fatherland and her rulers, now and ever and unto the ages of ages.
  • Bishop: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages.
  • Bishop: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom the [Holy Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Poland], in all time and unto the ages of ages.
  • Bishop: May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom the founders and benefactors of this holy temple, much specially you all, Orthodox faithful and monks here united, in all time and unto the ages of ages.
  • People: Amen. May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom thy episcopacy, in all time, now and ever and unto the ages of ages. Amen.
We have something very similar to this, though of course with a English / Russian theme instead of Polish.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2017, 07:42:56 PM »
I have attended liturgies in one church in the Greek Archdiocese of Thyateira and Great Britain where this happens. The parish is more Russian in its style, however.
We have something very similar to this, though of course with a English / Russian theme instead of Polish.
Oh, very interesting! Do you guys have any liturgical text with it?

We do it in Portuguese BTW
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2017, 11:18:31 PM »
Also, still on my topic, have any of you heard a petition which is more or less: "May the Lord our God remember in his kingdom all his Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which announces the word of truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the holy oblation, despite human defficiencies and the persecutions moved by the powers of this world, forever and unto the ages of ages." It's one of my favourite liturgical texts of all and I'd like to find it in other languages, although it seems to be a particularity...

It's probably a peculiarity of that celebrant.  A drive-by homily, so to speak.

A nice one, though.   Rapha's translation of it into English is slightly awkward, but with a few tweaks, that would make for a beautiful prayer.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2017, 11:36:04 PM »
Also, still on my topic, have any of you heard a petition which is more or less: "May the Lord our God remember in his kingdom all his Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which announces the word of truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the holy oblation, despite human defficiencies and the persecutions moved by the powers of this world, forever and unto the ages of ages." It's one of my favourite liturgical texts of all and I'd like to find it in other languages, although it seems to be a particularity...

It's probably a peculiarity of that celebrant.  A drive-by homily, so to speak.

A nice one, though.   Rapha's translation of it into English is slightly awkward, but with a few tweaks, that would make for a beautiful prayer.
In Romania they add the petition-among others- " all Romanian soldiers fallen on the battlefield, in all places , at all times , may the lord God remember in his kingdom". So that's including Vkad's army too.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2017, 11:53:03 PM »
A nice one, though.   Rapha's translation of it into English is slightly awkward, but with a few tweaks, that would make for a beautiful prayer.
I also think it's very beautiful, I hope they never get rid of it among the successive reforms on our texts, the particular solemnity of our Great Entrance would just change. If someone with a grasp of any Romance language might want to translate it or adjust my translation, here's the text in Portuguese:

"Que o Senhor Nosso Deus Se lembre no Seu reino de toda a Santa Igreja Católica Apostólica, que anuncia a palavra da verdade e oferece e distribui sem medo a Santa Oblação apesar das deficiências humanas e das perseguições movidas pelos poderes deste mundo, em todo o tempo e pelos séculos dos séculos."
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 11:54:13 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2017, 10:00:39 AM »
A nice one, though.   Rapha's translation of it into English is slightly awkward, but with a few tweaks, that would make for a beautiful prayer.
I also think it's very beautiful, I hope they never get rid of it among the successive reforms on our texts, the particular solemnity of our Great Entrance would just change. If someone with a grasp of any Romance language might want to translate it or adjust my translation, here's the text in Portuguese:

"Que o Senhor Nosso Deus Se lembre no Seu reino de toda a Santa Igreja Católica Apostólica, que anuncia a palavra da verdade e oferece e distribui sem medo a Santa Oblação apesar das deficiências humanas e das perseguições movidas pelos poderes deste mundo, em todo o tempo e pelos séculos dos séculos."

The Romance languages are so beautiful.  I particularly love Portuguese, Romanian and Occitanian.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

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Offline Alkis

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2017, 10:53:33 AM »
I realised that here in Greece we do it only if there is a bishop at the church. As I know this is not the order... Because the priest commemorates all these silently before the holy altar. It is done twice just for us the believers to hear it.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 10:53:59 AM by Alkis »
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2017, 08:38:56 PM »
A nice one, though.   Rapha's translation of it into English is slightly awkward, but with a few tweaks, that would make for a beautiful prayer.
I also think it's very beautiful, I hope they never get rid of it among the successive reforms on our texts, the particular solemnity of our Great Entrance would just change. If someone with a grasp of any Romance language might want to translate it or adjust my translation, here's the text in Portuguese:

"Que o Senhor Nosso Deus Se lembre no Seu reino de toda a Santa Igreja Católica Apostólica, que anuncia a palavra da verdade e oferece e distribui sem medo a Santa Oblação apesar das deficiências humanas e das perseguições movidas pelos poderes deste mundo, em todo o tempo e pelos séculos dos séculos."

The Romance languages are so beautiful.  I particularly love Portuguese, Romanian and Occitanian.
For me, Portuguese and Gallo-Romanic languages in general are on the top. Sweet like Italian, yet deep like German.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 08:39:03 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese)

Offline Dominika

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2017, 07:23:28 AM »
There's a retired priest that celebrates the liturgy once in a while.  His petitions last at minimum 5 minutes, because he commemorates family members, then people with birthdays/namedays for the month, then all the dead he is remembering for the month.  He's been a priest 50+ years, so he has quite a few names.
:laugh:


As I said in replies 3 and 5, it very differs in the Polish Orthodox Church from parish to parish, from priest to priest, from occassion to ocacassion. However, in most of the times there are petitions for:
- the metropolitan, diocesan bishop, and vicar bishop(s)
- our country, its army loving Christ and its authorities
- the fundators of the church
- clergy of the parish with their closest families (read by names on Sundays and great feasts, in general on weekdays) and for the members of the parish council by name (the second oe) is rather practice specific for my parish)
- people decorating the churhc, singing and reading in it
- people teaching and studying
- sick people; sometimes added people needing [Christ's] consolation; sometimes there are added certain names
- departed Orthodox Christians; if it's first Liturgy after the death of a priest of the POC, he's also commemorated; any bishop of the POC in the period of 40 days afetr his death is also mentioned; sometimes there are added other names or groups if there is an anniversary
- all standind and praying at this Liturgy and all Christians/all Orthodox Christians/Orthodox and all Christians
Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria

My Orthodox liturgical blog "For what eat, while you can fast" in Polish (videos featuring chants in different languages)

Offline eddybear

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Re: Petitions after Great Entrance
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2017, 01:36:28 PM »
I have attended liturgies in one church in the Greek Archdiocese of Thyateira and Great Britain where this happens. The parish is more Russian in its style, however.
We have something very similar to this, though of course with a English / Russian theme instead of Polish.
Oh, very interesting! Do you guys have any liturgical text with it?

We do it in Portuguese BTW

I'm afraid not, and online texts don't seem to have it.