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Author Topic: The Feminization of Christianity Followed to Its Logical Conclusion  (Read 3150 times) Average Rating: 0
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Antonious Nikolas
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« on: November 12, 2004, 11:26:15 AM »

Reading this makes me more and more grateful that the Orthodox Church has not caved in to current trends of political correctness.  I also applaud Bishop Peter Akinola of Nigeria and the other clergy who are resisting this neo-paganism.  Perhaps one day we shall welcome them home to Orthodoxy:

Weblog: Episcopal Church Officially Promotes Idol Worship
"Women's Eucharist" calls for worship of pagan deities specifically
condemned in Scripture.
Compiled by Ted Olsen | posted 10/26/2004


Imagine for one moment that you're a leader in the Episcopal Church
USA. You know that within the next few days, a global commission is
going to release a report on how the global Anglican Communion should
respond to your church, and is likely to be critical of the
ordination of an actively homosexual man as bishop. You know, and
have said yourself, that the debate isn't just about sexuality: It's
about how one views the Bible. And you know that all eyes will be on
your denomination over the next few weeks. What do you do?

What the real leaders of the Episcopal Church did was to take an
action that makes ordaining a homosexual man as a bishop almost a non-
issue. They started promoting the worship of pagan deities.

This is not a joke nor an overstatement. In all truth and
seriousness, leaders of the Episcopal Church USA are promoting pagan
rites to pagan deities. And not just any new pagan deities: The
Episcopal Church USA, though its Office of Women's Ministries, is
actually promoting the worship of idols specifically condemned in
Scripture.

"A Women's Eucharist: A Celebration of the Divine Feminine" is taken
almost completely (without attribution) from a rite from Tuatha de
Brighid, "a Clan of modern Druids GǪ who believe in the
interconnectedness of all faiths." But who cares where it's from?
Look at what it says. Here's how it begins.

We gather around a low table, covered with a woven cloth or shawl. A
candle, a bowl or vase of flowers, a large shallow bowl filled with
salted water, a chalice of sweet red wine, a cup of milk mixed with
honey, and a plate of raisin cakes are placed on the table.
You might be wondering: What's with the raisin cakes? Is it just
Communion wafers with raisins? No.

The plate of raisin cakes is raised and a woman says,
"Mother God, our ancient sisters called you Queen of Heaven and baked
these cakes in your honor in defiance of their brothers and husbands
who would not see your feminine face. We offer you these cakes, made
with our own hands; filled with the grain of life—scattered and
gathered into one loaf, then broken and shared among many. We offer
these cakes and enjoy them too. They are rich with the sweetness of
fruit, fertile with the ripeness of grain, sweetened with the power
of love. May we also be signs of your love and abundance."
The plate is passed and each woman takes and eats a cake.
So those raisin cakes have a historical reference: Those "brothers
and husbands" banned them. Sound familiar? It's a reference to Hosea
3:1:

And the LORD said to me, "Go again, love a woman who is loved by
another man and is an adulteress, even as the LORD loves the children
of Israel, though they turn to other gods and love cakes of raisins."
Now there are other biblical references to raisin cakes, but this is
the only reference (except possibly this one) to them having any kind
of role in worship.

Many scholars believe they were offerings to the goddess Asherah, the
female counterpart to Baal, but in this context it may be more
directly tied to Ishtar/Ashtoreth/Astarte, the "Queen of Heaven."

"Our ancient sisters called you Queen of Heaven," says the Episcopal
liturgy. That's a reference to Jeremiah. And not a happy one. In
Jeremiah 7, God complains, "The children gather wood, the fathers
kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen
of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to
provoke me to anger." The liturgy's reference to defiant women
worshipping the Queen of Heaven with cakes comes directly from
Jeremiah 44:

Then all the men who knew that their wives had made offerings to
other gods, and all the women who stood by, a great assembly, all the
people who lived in Pathros in the land of Egypt, answered
Jeremiah: "As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of
the LORD, we will not listen to you. But we will do everything that
we have vowed, make offerings to the queen of heaven and pour out
drink offerings to her, as we did, both we and our fathers, our kings
and our officials, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of
Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, and prospered, and saw no
disaster. But since we left off making offerings to the queen of
heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked
everything and have been consumed by the sword and by famine." And
the women said, "When we made offerings to the queen of heaven and
poured out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands'
approval that we made cakes for her bearing her image and poured out
drink offerings to her?"
In other words, it wasn't their brothers and husbands that the women
were defying: It was God.

And now Episcopal Church leaders want you to do the same. Defy God.
Worship pagan deities. There is no other possible reading of
this "Eucharistic" text.

It should be noted that the pagan rite isn't on some hidden page in
the deep recesses of the Episcopal Church's web site. The site is
actually promoting this. The main pages of the web site (there are
three: one for members, another for visitors, and a third for
leaders) all link to an Episcopal News Service article on the "The
Women's Liturgy Project." The article says, in part:

The Office of Women's Ministries is working towards creating a
resource to be used by women, men, parishes, dioceses, small groups,
within the context of a Sunday morning service, or any other
appropriate setting where the honoring of a woman's life passages and
experiences beckons a liturgical response. These can include, but are
not limited to, liturgies/rites pertaining to: menstruation,
menopause, conception, pregnancy, any form of pregnancy loss,
childbirth, forms of leave taking, and many others. GǪ There is
already a working section on the Women's Ministries website that
contains worship resources that are currently available to be
downloaded and used by all.
Go to that worship resources page, and there are only nine offerings,
the second of which is the "Women's Eucharist." Another troubling
entry is the Liturgy for Divorce, which includes this theology:

While the couple have promised in good faith to love until parted by
death, in some marriages the love between a wife and a husband comes
to an end sooner. Love dies, and when that happens we recognize that
the bonds of marriage, based on love, also may be ended . God calls
us to right relationships based on love, compassion, mutuality, and
justice. Whenever any of these elements is absent from a marital
relationship, then that partnership no longer reflects the
intentionality of God.
Such a view of love and marriage is profoundly unbiblical, but at
least there's no prayer to fertility goddesses. (Commenters over
Midwest Conservative Journal are discussing both rituals.)

The Anglican Primate of Nigeria, Peter Akinola, has been explaining
that the difference between his church and the Episcopal Church USA
isn't your standard intradenominational infighting. The Episcopal
Church (along with other western churches, he says), isn't even
Christian any more. Instead, he says, it's "embroiled in a new
religion which we cannot associate ourselves with."

One would have thought that the Episcopal Church USA might have
argued whether it was really practicing a different religion.
Instead, their challenge to Akinola's statement might be that it's
not new at all: Their idolatry has been around since Old Testament
times.

Copyright -¬ 2004 Christianity Today. Click for reprint information.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2004, 11:30:12 AM by Antonious Nikolas » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2004, 12:43:09 PM »

This grotesque development was aired recently on another Orthodox forum. Ebor was particularly outraged and did some background research. I recall an Anglican cleric has made public a letter of repentance sent to his bishop.

The issue, as the piece shows, goes beyond feminization. Rampant neo-Gnosticism, neo-Paganism and a blatant denial of the message writ through both the Old and New Covenants.

To be honest is this simply a further development of the much boasted Anglican comprehensiveness? I do not write this in a dismissive or attacking way, but if you have 'elastic' boundaries this may simply be a development which says as much about our times as it does about the 'health' of ECUSA.

My feelings are for the decent folk who genuinely feel that they may honestly follow the Christian way within North American Anglicanism. Early in the last century Bishop Raphael of blessed memory rejected any sense of Anglicanism being a sister 'church'. What he would have made of this development among others I think we might accurately speculate.

Can those Anglicans who earnestly seek after the God-man, Christ, continue to remain within the Anglican as it appears to tolerate the intolerable afronts to the teaching of Christ and His Apostles?
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2004, 12:49:52 PM »

I'm trying to look, but haven't found the prior thread yet.  Yes, Antonius Nikolas, this is a repeat of a thread started a few weeks ago.
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Antonious Nikolas
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2004, 12:57:33 PM »

Sorry for the redundant post Elisha.  Due to pressing matters outside of cyber-space, I haven't been active on these boards for months.  


My feelings are for the decent folk who genuinely feel that they may honestly follow the Christian way within North American Anglicanism. Early in the last century Bishop Raphael of blessed memory rejected any sense of Anglicanism being a sister 'church'. What he would have made of this development among others I think we might accurately speculate.

My feelings exactly gphadraig.  I feel for them, and pray for them.  At one time, I had high hopes for some of the more orthodox (small o) High Anglican churches, but like you said, the "elastic boundaries" of this communion mean that they would always be eucharistically linked with even the most far gone neo-druids, gay bishops, priestesses, etc., so we could never be in communion with them.  :'(
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2004, 01:33:47 PM »

 Episcopal Church Appoints First Openly-Muslim Bishop

(2003-08-04) -- Bishops in the Episcopal Church today approved the election of the first openly-Muslim bishop in the church's history.

The Islamic cleric, who rejects the deity of Jesus Christ, received an overwhelming majority of the vote.

A spokesman for the Episcopal Church said the move demonstrates, "Our church is open to all people, regardless of their beliefs, or whether they accept the teachings of the Bible."

The election of the Muslim bishop comes as the church stands ready to approve its first homosexual Bishop, V. Gene Robinson. Later today, the bishops plan to vote on the election of the church's first openly-atheist bishop.
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2004, 02:58:11 PM »

Antonious, the thread is in "Christian News" here:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/newboard/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=4460

which Keble started.  

I and many other people did research.  The power of "Google" cache prevented the persons in question from succeeding in erasing their 'Net tracks.  

I am composing a letter to the national offices declaring that the woman who heads up the section that posted the offending piece should be sacked.  I've heard that there are others also doing this.  If you wish, I can give more info later.

Ebor
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2004, 03:00:18 PM »

Just for information's sake, the posting that sdcheung made is not a real thing that happened.  I assume it's meant as a jest.

Ebor
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2004, 03:15:23 PM »

Thanks, Ebor, for the link to the original thread.

I thought sdcheung's joke was kind of funny, despite the gravity of the situation.  If Spong, an open homosexual, and the Druids can all get episcopal seats, why not a Muslim?
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2004, 04:29:55 PM »

Accuracy, A.N., accuracy. Spong is not homosexual (at least publicly) and the "druid" in question wasn't a bishop.
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Antonious Nikolas
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2004, 05:11:14 PM »

Accuracy, A.N., accuracy. Spong is not homosexual (at least publicly) and the "druid" in question wasn't a bishop.


You misunderstand me Keble.  I did not say that Spong was a homosexual.  I said:

"If Spong, an open homosexual, and the Druids can all get episcopal seats, why not a Muslim?"

In other words, I was listing some of the bishops I found to be questionable:

1. Spong
2. an open homosexual (I forget that guy's name)
3. and a druid (If I'm not mistaken, the archbishop of Canterbury himself is a member of some academic Druidic society, and I realize that this is different from those with a Druidic religion).

Perhaps I was unclear, but not inaccurate, at least not this time.  Wink
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2004, 06:04:02 PM »

sheeesh.........what's happening to the episcopal church these days??? I can't beleive they just took another giant leap into apostacy with the paganism. I thought the fruity bishop & the theology was bad enough..
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2004, 06:43:19 PM »

You misunderstand me Keble.  I did not say that Spong was a homosexual.  I said:

"If Spong, an open homosexual, and the Druids can all get episcopal seats, why not a Muslim?"

In other words, I was listing some of the bishops I found to be questionable:

1. Spong
2. an open homosexual (I forget that guy's name)
3. and a druid (If I'm not mistaken, the archbishop of Canterbury himself is a member of some academic Druidic society, and I realize that this is different from those with a Druidic religion).

Perhaps I was unclear, but not inaccurate, at least not this time.  Wink

I'm sorry, but in the case of the Archbishop of Canturbury there is an inaccuracy.  Rowan Cantuar was inducted into the "Gorsedd of Bards" for his contributions to the Welsh language, he himself being Welsh.  The Gorsedd is:
 
" ...an association whose members consist of poets, writers, musicians, artists and individuals who have made a distinguished contribution to the Welsh nation, language and culture. "

http://www.eisteddfod.org.uk/index.php?lang=EN;navId=10

It is associated with the National Eisteddfod in Wales. a festival of music and literature.  It has no religious significance whatsoever.  The elected head of the Gorsedd is termed the "archdruid" but it is non-religious. Music and poetry are a very important part of the Welsh culture.

http://www.eisteddfod.org.uk/index.php?lang=EN;navId=0

There is nothing contradictory about being a Welsh poet/musician/speaker and being a Christian.  

Just because there are some other people who use the same words/titles does not make the Gorsedd "druid" in their sense, like the Melnyks and the people on the Druid forum.

Also, apparently when John Spong was first made a Bishop he was a believing one.  He "discovered" things later on, and then started writing books and getting press because of "A Bishop rethinks..." sort of thing.

Ebor
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2004, 07:23:29 PM »

Okay Ebor, no big deal.  I stand corrected.  They do not have openly druid bishops, just openly druid priests and priestesses.  As for Spong, was he deposed after he became an "unbelieving bishop"?
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« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2004, 07:25:11 PM »

sheeesh.........what's happening to the episcopal church these days??? I can't beleive they just took another giant leap into apostacy with the paganism. I thought the fruity bishop & the theology was bad enough..

Nacho, you make it sound like there's a new BCP with ceremonies for tree worship.   :cwm3:  

That is not the case.  This was a couple of people doing things on their own.  The Melnyks were apparently being "druids" (which has no relation to the original druids of the British Isles who left no writings.  See Ronald Hutton, "The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles".  ) for about 4 years.  Through their own actions of umm... questionable judgement, a "ritual" from them was put up on the ECUSA women's ministries section. When this came to the attention of people there was protest and outrage and objection.  This led to the discovery of the Melnyks other religious postings/writings etc.  The indications are that their bishop did not know, as when things started to be revealed they tried to erase their writings from the 'Net.  This did not work, there being  'smoking craters in the 'net with yellow Google cached signs pointing at them.'

As soon as this came to light there was a hue and cry and much protest to their bishop and the national church offices from many people, both lay and clerical, men and women.  Last weekend the Rev. Mr. Melnyk ceased to be the rector of the church in Downingtown.  Both of the Melnyks have written public letters of repentance.  People are calling for the sacking of the head of the Women's Ministries section.

I'm sorry, but saying that this miserable affair is "another giant leap into apostacy"  is imho unfair and incorrect.  If an RC or EO cleric or 2 was discovered to be doing something peculiar, would it be  right for me to say that their Church had taken a leap into Apostacy?   Tarring the whole Church with the deeds of a few is Not Right.  Some members of the Church have done something wrong. Many others have protested and countered. It is not being ignored or approved. What is wrong then?
 Huh

My apologies for any intemperate writing.  

Ebor
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« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2004, 07:40:06 PM »

Okay Ebor, no big deal.  I stand corrected.  They do not have openly druid bishops, just openly druid priests and priestesses.  As for Spong, was he deposed after he became an "unbelieving bishop"?

As I wrote in my last they were not "openly druid priests" but were doing it on theri own.  When it became open things were not let to continue.  This isn't over, so I don't know whatelse will happen to the Melnyks.

I will also like to state that a woman who is some form of Pagan may be a "priestess" but I have known woman who are conservative in their beliefs, who would have nothing to do with any paganism, who are "women priests". I will not go into whether they are or are not here, but there is a difference in contation between the words, at least in English, the former being shaded with a lurid light as it were.

As to Spong, he was not deposed, though there were many objections to him and his writings.  The complexities of trying a Bishop (particularly after the case of Bp. James Pike in the 60's, I have a book on it if you want details) in the Anglican Communion are mind warping.  Also, by the time he really got major numbers outraged he was about to retire.  Some timing on his part.  Makes me wonder if his last writings were meant to be a "last hoorah" or parting shot before he got religated to the back lot, as it were.  He doesn't get the press and attention that he used to that I've heard.

I'm sorry that I sound tense about all this.  It is dirty laundry from my Church and it feels like we're getting pot-shots fired at us when we try to make things better from both sides.

more apologies,

Ebor
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2004, 07:54:52 PM »

Quote
I'm sorry, but saying that this miserable affair is "another giant leap into apostacy"  is imho unfair and incorrect.  If an RC or EO cleric or 2 was discovered to be doing something peculiar, would it be  right for me to say that their Church had taken a leap into Apostacy?  Tarring the whole Church with the deeds of a few is Not Right.  Some members of the Church have done something wrong. Many others have protested and countered. It is not being ignored or approved. What is wrong then?

Ohh, thanks for the clarification. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. The article makes it sound as if this was common place now among the leadership.

On another sad note, I went to Holy Virgin on thursday for vespers with a friend of a friend Kiss & found myself perplexed by an interesting and slightly disturbing converstion I had with this women I went with. She was talking about how she was totally into hinduism and other eatern beleifs and some other stuff I have never heard of....I asked, "so you are not really a committed Orthodox" & she said she's very faithful to the church. She went on to say that most russians are into other eastern religions and beleifs. I didn't really say anything because I didn't know her to well & didn't know what the hell to make of it. I'm no expert on the russian people so I was wondering if any russian orthodox have this problem in the church???
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2004, 08:17:34 PM »

Ohh, thanks for the clarification. Sorry for jumping to conclusions. The article makes it sound as if this was common place now among the leadership.

On another sad note, I went to Holy Virgin on thursday for vespers with a friend of a friend Kiss & found myself perplexed by an interesting and slightly disturbing converstion I had with this women I went with. She was talking about how she was totally into hinduism and other eatern beleifs and some other stuff I have never heard of....I asked, "so you are not really a committed Orthodox" & she said she's very faithful to the church. She went on to say that most russians are into other eastern religions and beleifs. I didn't really say anything because I didn't know her to well & didn't know what the hell to make of it. I'm no expert on the russian people so I was wondering if any russian orthodox have this problem in the church???

Do you mean Geary St. in the City or another parish in the Sac area?  I don't think this women knows what she is talking about.  It doesn't sound 'good' what she said, but I seriously doubt these Russians she's talking about (referring to a 'majority') really have other 'Eastern' religious beliefs as she says.
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2004, 08:31:51 PM »

Quote
Do you mean Geary St. in the City or another parish in the Sac area?  I don't think this women knows what she is talking about.  It doesn't sound 'good' what she said, but I seriously doubt these Russians she's talking about (referring to a 'majority') really have other 'Eastern' religious beliefs as she says.

Sorry, yea its the one on Geary St. I found it hard to beleive also. She was telling me also how she goes to church all the time & that her grandfather helped design & build the church also. I found it very wierd to say the least that an Orthodox would be into other religions.
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« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2004, 09:09:03 PM »

It must be a sad and frustrating situation for you Ebor. :'(
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2004, 04:35:32 PM »

Glad to be of service in clearing any misunderstanding, Nacho.

Yes, Antonious, the whole situation is frustrating and depressing and wearying and sad and more.  Being the target for many is not fun.

Ebor
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« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2004, 05:53:20 PM »

Sorry, yea its the one on Geary St. I found it hard to beleive also. She was telling me also how she goes to church all the time & that her grandfather helped design & build the church also. I found it very wierd to say the least that an Orthodox would be into other religions.

If you want to get really anal, then I practice "Eastern Beliefs" by practicing yoga.  Of course, I'm willfully ignorant on any of the meditation/meaning/sprituality/etc. aspects, doing it strictly as physical therapy for my back.  But I gather that this isn't even close to what this woman told you.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2004, 05:53:45 PM by Elisha » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2004, 08:38:58 PM »

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If you want to get really anal, then I practice "Eastern Beliefs" by practicing yoga.  Of course, I'm willfully ignorant on any of the meditation/meaning/sprituality/etc. aspects, doing it strictly as physical therapy for my back.  But I gather that this isn't even close to what this woman told you.

Yea, I know what you mean. I'm also a huge fan of eastern belief systems myself Cool...I guess it was kind of engrained into me awhile back when my Kenpo instructor always talked about the "chi" lol & would break each move down into some esoteric thing hehe. I might attend Holy Virgin again with this women and will find out more of what she's in to. When I talked to her she made it sound as if orthodoxy was important to her,but so was the other stuff. What tripped me out the most was her statement that alot of russians are into hinduism, budhism etc... I think I'm going to ask her what she meant by that because I don't know any russian orthodox that are like that. She could have some mental issues I guess Cheesy, but then again she lives in san francisco so that could have an affect on someone's mental health lol...
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« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2004, 02:47:42 AM »

Yea, I know what you mean. I'm also a huge fan of eastern belief systems myself Cool...I guess it was kind of engrained into me awhile back when my Kenpo instructor always talked about the "chi" lol & would break each move down into some esoteric thing hehe. I might attend Holy Virgin again with this women and will find out more of what she's in to. When I talked to her she made it sound as if orthodoxy was important to her,but so was the other stuff. What tripped me out the most was her statement that alot of russians are into hinduism, budhism etc... I think I'm going to ask her what she meant by that because I don't know any russian orthodox that are like that. She could have some mental issues I guess Cheesy, but then again she lives in san francisco so that could have an affect on someone's mental health lol...

Let me know when you go again.  Maybe we can meet up.  I might be in Elk Grove on Thanksgiving.  Let me know.
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« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2004, 12:00:10 AM »

My God!

I thank the Lord that in Christ Jesus there is neither male or female, but we are all one in Christ.  The Church is not a masculine institution, nor a feminine institution.  God has called all who would believe on Christ and His atoning work to salvation and sanctification.  In many ways I feel that we are almost bordering on becoming like the Pharisees.  I am not talking about compromise of spiritual principles, for my desire is to please God in my intimacy with Him, with my fellowship with other believers, and in serving Him faithfully.  I thank God for His call on my life.  I remember when the Lord ministered to me what He had destined me for.  I wonder about that and prayed for many years to assure that call.  I've got to believe that God knew that I was a female when He called me, because if He did not, then I am in trouble.  That called was confirmed after much prayer, spiritual direction and being prepared.   Today I walk in that call without apology, and God continually confirms that He is with me and enables me to do all that He has called me to do.  Feminization nor misogyny should rule the church - only Christ is the head of the Church, and His church reaches every nation, tongue and people groups, both male and female.  Let's just thank God for that.  As a woman, I thank my God daily that He has fashioned me according to His grand design, and not according to the dictates of mortal man.

I am constantly reminded that the greatest altar, is the altar of the heart that has been prepared to have sweet fellowship with Almighty God.  Our quest should be:  "Am I preparing the 'altar' where I will meet daily with God?"

Elder Kelley
« Last Edit: November 18, 2004, 12:05:22 AM by HKelley » Logged
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« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2004, 12:51:27 AM »

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Let me know when you go again.  Maybe we can meet up.  I might be in Elk Grove on Thanksgiving.  Let me know

Ok.......I'm actually leaving for missouri this friday & will be there all week. Going to visit friends at St. Thomas' in Springfield....Maybe down the road we could meet up some time at Holy Virgin in SF. That's has to be one of the most amazing Orthodox Churches I have ever seen. Best of all tons of icons to make the rounds for kissing Grin & no pews!!!! I can't stand a church with pews, those things don't belong in churches, they belong in movie theatres or music halls Wink
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« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2004, 02:44:14 AM »

Ok.......I'm actually leaving for missouri this friday & will be there all week. Going to visit friends at St. Thomas' in Springfield....Maybe down the road we could meet up some time at Holy Virgin in SF. That's has to be one of the most amazing Orthodox Churches I have ever seen. Best of all tons of icons to make the rounds for kissing Grin & no pews!!!! I can't stand a church with pews, those things don't belong in churches, they belong in movie theatres or music halls Wink

Well, then I guess I'll miss you when I'm in Elk Grove next weekend (Thanksgiving weekend).
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