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Author Topic: Is this image a shop?  (Read 658 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: June 16, 2012, 07:09:15 PM »



Pretty amazing if it's not.
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2012, 07:18:31 PM »

It doesn't need to be 'shopped.

It's not hard to take a shot like that. A shaft of morning light coming through a narrow apse window can result in impressive effects, be they on objects on the altar, or on the clergy serving. In this picture's case, it seems that the chalice is not only lit by the light coming through the window visible in the upper right of the picture, but the same light would also be striking the upright Gospel on the Holy Table, and off the glass or perspex cover over the sepulcher, which then reflected onto the chalice. The intensity of this double reflection off two very shiny surfaces could be enough to over-expose the chalice, relative to the rest of the photograph.

It's also worth noting the expressions on the faces of the clergy present: "Situation normal", not "Good God, the chalice is glowing, it's a miracle!".
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2012, 09:15:54 PM »

In one of the OCA churches I attended, one evening in the summer during vespers, as the sun was setting, light went through 1 stained glass window.  It was a PERFECT clear light directly on the hand of Christ on the iconostasis.  (The one blessing).   No where else in the entire church had any beams of light at all.  Just a perfectly shaped "oval" directly over his hand in perfect form.

Miracle, I'll never know...
But it took my breath away.
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2012, 11:27:07 PM »

It's also worth noting the expressions on the faces of the clergy present: "Situation normal", not "Good God, the chalice is glowing, it's a miracle!".

 Cheesy
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2012, 12:21:12 AM »

That is pretty darn good. Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2012, 01:06:05 AM »

"How come the light was captured by the camera, but not the people who were present? Was this miracle intended just for the photographer?

Otherwise, it is a typical hoax, or poor imitation that people come up with, not just in Orthodoxy, but in many other cases, such as "ufo's". The general impression that they leave behind is one of confusion, uncertainty and an air of falseness.

From an orthodox pov, when God performs miracles, He clearly communicates this fact in a manner that leads one to repentance and a deeper knowledge of God. He will not employ methods such as revealing His Grace to an object (camera) and not to real people, and leave it up to discussion whether it was a miracle or not (it must be clearly understood).

Another point, the light does not make sense theologically either. The Uncreated Energies (Light) of God is not physical, but spiritual, intended to be seen by those whom God wants to bring to repentance, or those who are purified (ie saints). Capturing physical light on film is something for the physical eyes and for the human mind alone; something that satan, or even man can duplicate (especially if this is a forgery). Again, this miracle does not seem to glorify God's Power of performing Miracles and bringing people to repentance and deeper knowledge of Him." (I posted this on a blog as well)
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2012, 01:11:22 AM »

In one of the OCA churches I attended, one evening in the summer during vespers, as the sun was setting, light went through 1 stained glass window.  It was a PERFECT clear light directly on the hand of Christ on the iconostasis.  (The one blessing).   No where else in the entire church had any beams of light at all.  Just a perfectly shaped "oval" directly over his hand in perfect form.

Miracle, I'll never know...
But it took my breath away.
Aw, beautiful Smiley I like the way that the cross atop the Golden Gates in our altar always casts its shadow falling somewhere on the right hand of the Theotokos, but on Holy Saturday at the midnight vigil, when all lights except the invariable Light of Christ on the altar table are out, the cross is exactly in the middle. I don't know why, I just always find myself looking at it, at least for a few moments. It strikes me powerfully Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2012, 06:56:01 AM »

"How come the light was captured by the camera, but not the people who were present? Was this miracle intended just for the photographer?

Otherwise, it is a typical hoax, or poor imitation that people come up with, not just in Orthodoxy, but in many other cases, such as "ufo's". The general impression that they leave behind is one of confusion, uncertainty and an air of falseness.

From an orthodox pov, when God performs miracles, He clearly communicates this fact in a manner that leads one to repentance and a deeper knowledge of God. He will not employ methods such as revealing His Grace to an object (camera) and not to real people, and leave it up to discussion whether it was a miracle or not (it must be clearly understood).

Another point, the light does not make sense theologically either. The Uncreated Energies (Light) of God is not physical, but spiritual, intended to be seen by those whom God wants to bring to repentance, or those who are purified (ie saints). Capturing physical light on film is something for the physical eyes and for the human mind alone; something that satan, or even man can duplicate (especially if this is a forgery). Again, this miracle does not seem to glorify God's Power of performing Miracles and bringing people to repentance and deeper knowledge of Him." (I posted this on a blog as well)

Ioan, you're overthinking this. I've taken thousands of pictures inside Orthodox churches, and I am certain that no trickery is involved in producing a shot like the one in the OP. It's all about the photographer's position relative to the light, the presence of objects in the path of the light, and timing.

I once photographed a bishop serving at the altar during Liturgy. He looked like he was surrounded by a halo of light - one of my finest shots in more than 25 years of photography, but I would not presume to call it a miracle. I was only in the right place and pressing the shutter at the right time.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2012, 06:56:59 AM by LBK » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2012, 07:48:58 AM »



It's also worth noting the expressions on the faces of the clergy present: "Situation normal", not "Good God, the chalice is glowing, it's a miracle!".

For the Church, miracles are "situation normal".  I have seen many things like this in my life.  They do not phase me, nor do I try to figure them out (although I do agree with your theory that in this case, it could be a matter of the way the light is shining).  God often shows us, in ways special to us as individuals, that he is here with us and that he is real.  A true Christian does not "need" these things.  But then again, I did not "need" my Father's Day present this morning either.  But that does not mean that it was not appreciated and that it does not mean anything to me.  I feel sorry for those like IoanC that seem to try to find a hoax in everything, or who's misguided view of God make them think that a miracle has to have some deep meaning or clear communication.  There are times that I give my children gifts for no other reason than I love them and wanted to do this, not to teach them some profound life lesson.  God, as our heavenly Father, is no different - except that He is perfect in every way.  I am sad that some people cannot simply enjoy the small gifts that He gives us every day, but have to make a big production of it (or simply reject them).
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2012, 10:30:59 AM »



Ioan, you're overthinking this. I've taken thousands of pictures inside Orthodox churches, and I am certain that no trickery is involved in producing a shot like the one in the OP. It's all about the photographer's position relative to the light, the presence of objects in the path of the light, and timing.

I once photographed a bishop serving at the altar during Liturgy. He looked like he was surrounded by a halo of light - one of my finest shots in more than 25 years of photography, but I would not presume to call it a miracle. I was only in the right place and pressing the shutter at the right time.

Well, I said IF it's a forgery, otherwise it's not very impressive anyway (unless in a childish manner). However, the sites that I saw where this photo was circulating, were presenting this photo as a "miracle" (captured only on camera), and so this had to be refuted.
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« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 12:39:45 PM »

We (my family) had an instance where something like this happened, years ago. 

My husband stepped out of the Palm Sunday procession around our church to take a photo with our digital camera.  When we got home and put it on the computer, a very narrow beam of light was coming down from above and landing right on Christ in the icon that the priest was carrying.  The sun was on the complete opposite side of the sky from where the beam was originating, *behind* the church building, and there was nothing that could have been reflecting a sunbeam and sending it down from that height, at that angle.  We showed it to our priest and he just smiled his gentle smile and said "Glory be to God."  Sadly, we never had a hard copy made and the photo was lost when the hard drive that it was on crashed. 

I agree with Punch - I accept such lovely happenings as small loving gifts from God and move on, no need to try to prove or disprove.   
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